dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2011-03-24 18:27:44: Earlier this week we noted that AT&T's usage meters for their upcoming metered billing push aren't accurate when compared to user firewall or router logs. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next

trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

How did anyone not see this happening?

Seriously, how did anyone not see this coming a mile away?

They can't even get the usage meters to be accurate on the wireless side and they have had those systems in place for months.

My usage meter on my iPhone has been way off for months, sometimes being 100 MBs more than it should be.
--
Tom
wahoospa

join:2006-03-23
Charleston, SC

AT&T is the Pits

AT&T can work on anything they want as I will have nothing more to do with them.

ATT hater

@comcast.net

Re: AT&T is the Pits

Having AT&T as a vendor is much like being robbed by your cleaning lady every month. AT&T has overbilled me as much as $4,000 and drug their feet for months on resolution. That is, until I called to cancel service. Then it was correctly resolved in 10 minutes! Of course, they overbilled me the very next month, so it was hasta for me.

But AT&T is the only company to ever send me to collections for a contract I didn't even sign! My son wanted me to co-sign for an iphone. After reading the terms (that made it pretty clear it was MY contract, not my son's) I refused to sign. A year later, I started getting calls from the sleaziest collection agency I've ever seen, and when I got to the bottom of it, it was for the contract that I'd refused to sign!

Friends don't let friends use AT&T!

45612019

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

1 recommendation

Fuck off, AT&T.

We shouldn't have to be dealing with this bullshit in the first place.

I'll be taking my business to any ISP that doesn't pull this cap nonsense.
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

Re: Fuck off, AT&T.

yup bye bye ATT.you are an asshole corporation and you think we all here are dumb cattle.
we are not.if someone offers uncapped we will dump you.and some will dump you anyways for a sucky but uncapped connection.

Nargg

@cox.net
LOL! Good luck with that. THey all DO THIS! idiot.
WhyMe420
Premium
join:2009-04-06
kudos:1

Re: Fuck off, AT&T.

said by Nargg :

LOL! Good luck with that. THey all DO THIS! idiot.

Nice flaming. They don't all do this. Cable Co's don't charge overages. Next time look in the mirror before flaming.

Tanshin

join:2009-07-18
West Simsbury, CT
kudos:1

Re: Fuck off, AT&T.

And that's why Comcast will actually shut off your connection when you go over their cap. At least you still can use your internet with AT&T's plan.

If I had a better idea of the bandwidth that I was using right now, and assuming that I'm passing my caps, I'd probably be looking for somebody else to serve me. But, where I live you can have AT&T or Comcast. That's it. It sucks.
WhyMe420
Premium
join:2009-04-06
kudos:1

Re: Fuck off, AT&T.

I'd rather be cut off than put another dime in AT&T's pocket.

Plus, there's no guarantee they'll even cut it off. It's only if you're clogging a node, and you're the top user. Whereas with AT&T, you're guaranteed to get an overage at 251GB+. At least cable co's have a half-assed excuse to cap. Whereas AT&T has no excuse other than greed.

Not to mention AT&T can't even get the meter right.

Lagz
Premium
join:2000-09-03
The Rock

Re: Fuck off, AT&T.

said by WhyMe420:

I'd rather be cut off than put another dime in AT&T's pocket.

Plus, there's no guarantee they'll even cut it off. It's only if you're clogging a node, and you're the top user. Whereas with AT&T, you're guaranteed to get an overage at 251GB+. At least cable co's have a half-assed excuse to cap. Whereas AT&T has no excuse other than greed.

Not to mention AT&T can't even get the meter right.

For those regular DSL users like myself that is 150GB. Comcast is looking better and better. I switched from comcast to AT&T. I guess it's time to switch back. 250GB looks a lot better than 150GB. The speed increase alone will be worth it. The only rational I used to stay with AT&T was they had no cap. Well I can't use that as an excuse top stay with them any more.
--
If it looks blue and talks blue, then it must be blue!

wings10
I Am Legend
Premium
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL

Re: Fuck off, AT&T.

said by Lagz:

said by WhyMe420:

I'd rather be cut off than put another dime in AT&T's pocket.

Plus, there's no guarantee they'll even cut it off. It's only if you're clogging a node, and you're the top user. Whereas with AT&T, you're guaranteed to get an overage at 251GB+. At least cable co's have a half-assed excuse to cap. Whereas AT&T has no excuse other than greed.

Not to mention AT&T can't even get the meter right.

For those regular DSL users like myself that is 150GB. Comcast is looking better and better. I switched from comcast to AT&T. I guess it's time to switch back. 250GB looks a lot better than 150GB. The speed increase alone will be worth it. The only rational I used to stay with AT&T was they had no cap. Well I can't use that as an excuse top stay with them any more.

Can you switch to U-Verse? It would be cheaper then Comcast and you get 250GB a month.
--
"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."

wings10
I Am Legend
Premium
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL
said by Nargg :

LOL! Good luck with that. THey all DO THIS! idiot.

LOL I agree. The person does spend a lot of time here for leaving. Oh the drama.
--
"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."
VerizonCynic

join:2006-10-25
Lakewood, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
One other provision of note: AT&T's contract now stipulates that the company can cancel your service "if you engage in conduct that is threatening, abusive or harassing" to the company's workers, or for "frequent use of profane or vulgar language" when dealing with service repps

»www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-l···2.column

Harddrive
Proud American and Infidel since 1968.
Premium
join:2000-09-20
DFW
kudos:2

Sure am glad i left AT&T.

albeit for another crappy telecom/cableco. At least I let my wallet speak for me. Something they might notice if enough people do it. Who am I kidding? They don't care one bit about the residential customer. Their bread and butter are the government subsidies for allowing the intel agencies full access those satellites that they skim a few cents off of every call that bounces through them.
--
"Linux is only free if your time has no value" - Jamie Zawinski
tim85254

join:2010-07-15

2 recommendations

Relevant state department of weights and measures...

Time for a letter writing campaign to your state Attorney General. Their bandwidth meter should be held to the same standard as a gas pump or a delicatessen scale. They should have to prove the accuracy satisfactorily to every jurisdiction in which they propose ripping people off with usage-based-billing.

It will either delay the introduction of usage-based-billing or hopefully make it so expensive to implement that they back off.

djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2

Re: Relevant state department of weights and measures...

I think this is the best, most constructive action item for fighting UBB.

mesurz

@telus.net
In Canada, for UBB(delayed for 8 more months), Weights and Measures is refusing to deal with the GB measurements of a consumable product.
And with a Canada Federal election coming up, Weights and Measures answers to no one on the issue.

Corruption corrupts absolutely.
phazah

join:2004-05-02
Findlay, OH

1 recommendation

Agreed...
If they are going to act like a pseudo-public utilities, then they should be held to a standard and penalties that a public utility is held to.
Hard meters on each house measuring each bit that is used by the homeowner, not including unwanted up or downloads(spam, spyware, pings from unknown sources)....

Lagz
Premium
join:2000-09-03
The Rock

Re: Relevant state department of weights and measures...

said by phazah:

Agreed...
If they are going to act like a pseudo-public utilities, then they should be held to a standard and penalties that a public utility is held to.
Hard meters on each house measuring each bit that is used by the homeowner, not including unwanted up or downloads(spam, spyware, pings from unknown sources)....

Not to mention ads. Like those large flash ads. Good thing I use Firefox with the Adblock Plus addon!
--
If it looks blue and talks blue, then it must be blue!

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by tim85254:

Time for a letter writing campaign to your state Attorney General. Their bandwidth meter should be held to the same standard as a gas pump or a delicatessen scale. They should have to prove the accuracy satisfactorily to every jurisdiction in which they propose ripping people off with usage-based-billing.

It will either delay the introduction of usage-based-billing or hopefully make it so expensive to implement that they back off.

If, and that is a very big if, metering is somehow drug in to a court by some state AG, the case would end up going to either the FCC or a Federal Court. And the company involved(AT&T or Comcast or TWC, etc) would no doubt just have to prove their SYSTEM of measurement is accurate within some %( + or - ). There is no way this could turn in to proving every collection point of the data met some theoretical standard.

So, IF you got what you wanted, it wouldn't involve proving it to every jurisdiction and would only be looked at once by some 3rd party hired by the FCC or the Federal Court to verify the overall system.
--
Record your speedtest.net results in DSLReports SpeedWave
»www.speedtest.net/wave/afe201cb84d45c88
Expand your moderator at work
Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

Now whats does att have to say about directv VOD data?

Now whats does att have to say about directv VOD data? / other data from the directv boxes?

45612019

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

1 recommendation

If their meters are so inaccurate...

...I wonder how they came up with that fun little statistic that 98% of their users don't use more than 250 GB of bandwidth in a month?

Seems to be increasingly obvious that AT&T has just been making up a pack of lies.

hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Att

Full of shit enough said ...

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Question About Image Used for News Piece?

I have a question about the image used in the news piece ... what thread is that from? The user is highlighting uTorrent usage only and we don't know for how many days. uTorrent always reports 31 days, as that's set via the Transfer Cap option, it's not a value based on the actual number of days.

The numbers and methodology don't add up.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

2 edits

1 recommendation

Re: Question About Image Used for News Piece?

It was pulled from a discussion thread because I wanted an image showing the meter -- you're right though, doesn't really show much just showing the P2P meter compared to overall usage -- though I thought it was the best of the bunch in terms of users dealing with these new caps in everyday use. Changed it to a simple image from the AT&T usage tool...

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

2 recommendations

said by Matt3:

I have a question about the image used in the news piece ... what thread is that from?

This thread:

»AT&T usage meter -- is yours as wildly inaccurate as mine?

Specifically, this post:

»Re: AT&T usage meter -- is yours as wildly inaccurate as mine?

Please note that I did include a caveat. The two measurements are out of synch for the start dates. My plan is to reset the uTorrent usage report as close to midnight as possible on the start date of the next AT&T measurement cycle. I am also looking for software which can convert the D-Link DIR-655 router packet count, because the uTorrent meter only measures Torrent usage, but not any other usage. I'd like to monitor from my router to account for all usage to the WAN from my LAN.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Re: Question About Image Used for News Piece?

said by NormanS:

said by Matt3:

I have a question about the image used in the news piece ... what thread is that from?

This thread:

»AT&T usage meter -- is yours as wildly inaccurate as mine?

Specifically, this post:

»Re: AT&T usage meter -- is yours as wildly inaccurate as mine?

Please note that I did include a caveat. The two measurements are out of synch for the start dates. My plan is to reset the uTorrent usage report as close to midnight as possible on the start date of the next AT&T measurement cycle. I am also looking for software which can convert the D-Link DIR-655 router packet count, because the uTorrent meter only measures Torrent usage, but not any other usage. I'd like to monitor from my router to account for all usage to the WAN from my LAN.

I figured there was a caveat posted, but just wanted to be sure. I looked for something to monitor the DIR-655 I used to have, but aside from the D-Link utility, which as you noted only reports the packet count, I never could find anything.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Question About Image Used for News Piece?

said by Matt3:

I figured there was a caveat posted, but just wanted to be sure. I looked for something to monitor the DIR-655 I used to have, but aside from the D-Link utility, which as you noted only reports the packet count, I never could find anything.

There is another problem I am trying to sort. Just what is the metric AT&T is using. And what metric should I apply to the router packets. I.e., how can I be sure that I am measuring the same thing AT&T is measuring? It seems that AT&T is balking at explaining there metric, so how do I know what I will be paying for when they start UBB?

AT&T obviously considers their subscribers to be mushrooms: Keep them in the dark and feed them bullshit.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Re: Question About Image Used for News Piece?

said by NormanS:

said by Matt3:

I figured there was a caveat posted, but just wanted to be sure. I looked for something to monitor the DIR-655 I used to have, but aside from the D-Link utility, which as you noted only reports the packet count, I never could find anything.

There is another problem I am trying to sort. Just what is the metric AT&T is using. And what metric should I apply to the router packets. I.e., how can I be sure that I am measuring the same thing AT&T is measuring? It seems that AT&T is balking at explaining there metric, so how do I know what I will be paying for when they start UBB?

AT&T obviously considers their subscribers to be mushrooms: Keep them in the dark and feed them bullshit.

I don't know if you'll be able to directly correlate packets to data transferred. Data packets can be of varying size, depending on the payload. For example, a full 1500 byte packet may be used when you're sending a large file ... because the payload if full, but a small DNS request won't exceed 576 bytes. They would both register as a one packet however.

You're right on the money about AT&T need to explain their methodology. They need to explain how they are measuring the traffic and at what point in the infrastructure. ATM and/or PPPoE overhead seem like a cost of doing business to me and the customer should not be penalized for that.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
said by NormanS:

There is another problem I am trying to sort. Just what is the metric AT&T is using. And what metric should I apply to the router packets. I.e., how can I be sure that I am measuring the same thing AT&T is measuring? It seems that AT&T is balking at explaining there metric, so how do I know what I will be paying for when they start UBB?

"As we noted earlier in the week, AT&T's decision to measure from the DSLAM could be increasing usage estimates because that would include ATM and PPPoE overhead. AT&T didn't offer us a comment on that.

The company did suggest ...
quote:
some tools could be to blame. ... most likely do not take into account the standard network protocols (e.g. Ethernet, IP) that are used to provide applications and content to our customers via the Internet," says Bloom. "As you know, this is fairly standard to incorporate when measuring broadband traffic ...
"
8744675

join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA

Usage meters should be regulated by the FTC

Gas pumps, scales and any other device that measure weight or volume are inspected, verfied for accuracy and sealed by local or state inspectors.

We should the expect and demand the same from AT&T, since they have screwed up metering bandwith right out of the gate. The honor system won't work with those crooks.

twaddle

@sbcglobal.net

Usage meters WHERE?

When I first read of this CAP I immediately tried to get an answer form AT&T. They flat out told me they would have the means to monitor my usage by the time I was capped but they had nothing in place. Then I went to their usage meter url and I can't access it and their cheerful note says if I can't access it I have nothing to be concerned a this time. God I would hate to go to COMCAST for ISP service as I did battle with them years ago for their Bi-Annual rate hikes and NOTHING to show for it expet higher prices and lousy service and product. Voted with my wallet and said good-bye. This is insanity and we're being run by the inmates. Just another friendly reminder from AT&T of where our ankles are located.
kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL

AT&T is going to justify these caps.......

Even if it kills them trying to figure out how to measure them. PR man Bloom has his work cut out for him.
--
Jeff Howe
Jeff's Blog - »www.ostjournal.net
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

Looks like a job for the State Attorney General.

Everyone affected by this problem should file a complaint with their states attorney general. The first state whose attorney general receives 1,000 complaints about inaccurate metering, should get an honorable mention in this newsletter.

••••

djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

UBB should not include PPPoE or ATM overhead.

That would be like the post office charging you extra for the container they decide to use to transport your packages in. It's not our fault they opted to use a roughly 85% efficient transport mechanism (ATM).
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.
innoman
-
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Dallas, TX
kudos:1

Re: UBB should not include PPPoE or ATM overhead.

good analogy.

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by djrobx:

That would be like the post office charging you extra for the container they decide to use to transport your packages in. It's not our fault they opted to use a roughly 85% efficient transport mechanism (ATM).

I bet they took that efficiency number in to account when setting the cap.
--
Record your speedtest.net results in DSLReports SpeedWave
»www.speedtest.net/wave/afe201cb84d45c88

maartena
Elmo
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:3

And who will CONFIRM that they are accurate?

AT&T can say what they want to say. But who will determine whether they are telling the truth?

If I have a dispute with the Electricity, Gas, or Water company, I can count on county officials who have reports, tests, etc with regards to the meters installed at my house. Each of them have a seal, that this type of meter is determined to be accurate by some sort of weight and measurement institute.

Every gas pomp in the county is tested for accuracy by a county or state official, and gets a seal of approval. You see the seal, you know you are getting an exact gallon when the meter says you got a gallon.

But who will check on AT&T? Is it just AT&T's word that says "we promise we have an accurate meter", or do we as consumers have any source besides AT&T itself that can mediate, and test meters as needed?
--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Saying is one thing.

Putting it in action is another.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Yumma Goochie Buffalo Bob

Can your hear it, listen real close. The licking of chops, the drooling, the lip smacking of class action lawyers looking to sue on behalf of the poor cheated customers of AT&T. Nasty inaccurate usage meters. And there will be a huge out of court settlement from which the lawyers will extract large amounts of cash from AT&T and the customers they fought so hard for will each get a coupon for a Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese at McD's. No matter what we loose.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

•••
brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

umm

What prevents people resetting the stats on the u-verse device each day? lol

93388818
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
Dallas, TX

Re: umm

because I don't believe it's collected from your CPE.

maartena
Elmo
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:3
said by brianiscool:

What prevents people resetting the stats on the u-verse device each day? lol

If only it were that easy.

(If it was, someone will have written a Firefox plug in, that automatically opens a tab, opens your RG website, logs in, and resets the stats)
--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Class-action

Hopefully a class action would be so expensive and such a pain for AT&T that they would just get rid of the caps and drop any overage charges. That's probably not going to happen either. Too bad they didn't implement the meter my school has: it literally doesn't count a good chunk of the traffic. It works.

riturno

join:2004-04-20
Dallas, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: Class-action

According to the new terms of service they have implemented binding arbitration and eliminated your ability to file lawsuits as a class.

DISPUTE RESOLUTION WITH AT&T BY BINDING ARBITRATION

PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY. IT AFFECTS YOUR RIGHTS.

Most customer concerns can be resolved quickly and to the customer's satisfaction by calling AT&T at 1-800-288-2020. In the unlikely event that AT&T's customer service department is unable to resolve a complaint you may have to your satisfaction (or if AT&T has not been able to resolve a dispute it has with you after attempting to do so informally), we each agree to resolve those disputes through binding arbitration or small claims court instead of in courts of general jurisdiction. Arbitration is more informal than a lawsuit in court. Arbitration uses a neutral arbitrator instead of a judge or jury, allows for more limited discovery than in court, and is subject to very limited review by courts. Arbitrators can award the same damages and relief that a court can award. Any arbitration under this Agreement will take place on an individual basis; class arbitrations and class actions are not permitted. For any non-frivolous claim that does not exceed $75,000, AT&T will pay all costs of the arbitration. Moreover, in arbitration you are entitled to recover attorneys' fees from AT&T to at least the same extent as you would be in court. In addition, under certain circumstances (as explained below), AT&T will pay you more than the amount of the arbitrator’s award and will pay your attorney (if any) twice his or her reasonable attorneys’ fees if the arbitrator awards you an amount that is greater than what AT&T has offered you to settle the dispute.



»uverseonline.att.net/uverse/tos
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: Class-action

Hmmmm, maybe the state AG's or DPUC's can step in? I'm pretty sure an individual state DPUC could kill the caps, even if it only works for that one state...
innoman
-
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Dallas, TX
kudos:1
Reviews:
·VoicePulse

right...

read -- we will work with those who have a clue on what they are talking about and let the others be screwed out of their hard earned dollars because they aren't savvy enough to know how to monitor their own usage.

drop the stupid, unnecessary, caps.