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Comments on news posted 2011-04-08 11:19:11: In addition to starting to refine signal booster rules, the FCC yesterday also announced (pdf) modified pole attachment rules, a move the FCC says will reduce costs for attaching broadband lines and wireless antennas to utility poles across the count.. ..

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Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

What roaming?

My phone (Verizon) has never went into "Roaming" so far, and that's going through Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Colorado.

..does roaming even exist anymore?


TSWYO
Premium
join:2003-05-03
Cheyenne, WY
You need to look at the regional carriers... You mentioned Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana. Union Wireless is a regional GSM provider mostly in Wyoming but with towers in Norther Colorado and possible southern Montana. They have by far the best GSM coverage in Wyoming, but people travel out of those areas from time to time. Union needs a reasonable cost effective way to allow roaming…. This will help ensure that.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to Simba7
said by Simba7:

My phone (Verizon) has never went into "Roaming" so far, and that's going through Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Colorado.

..does roaming even exist anymore?

My Sprint smartphone has gone in to both voice & data roaming occasionally in the the Philly metro area in the past 2 yrs. Sprint roams on the dominant Verizon network in rural areas of Philly metro.

But Verizon only allows Sprint to data roam on 1x and not EVDO and that is why the FCC is involving itself.
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Nsane_iceman
Premium
join:2001-02-26
North Richland Hills, TX
reply to Simba7
said by Simba7:

My phone (Verizon) has never went into "Roaming" so far, and that's going through Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Colorado.

..does roaming even exist anymore?

Last time it happened to me was in the middle of no where Arkansas, with a VZW phone, back in 2002. I used to hear about people on Sprint that would randomly go "roaming" in a building, but that also was back in 2002-2003.
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Avatar by: dandelion | Disarm you with a smile. | Tell me, tell me what you're after. I just want to get there faster.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Let's Kill Deployment

And exactly why are companies going to put up towers now if they know that other companies can use them at a discount?
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1

Crying! Mommy FCC is going to make me share my network!

Mommy the FCC is going to make me share my network with others, I want to take my ball and go home.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
The FCC's McDowell voted against data roaming and laid out the position Verizon will take in a court challenge to the new roaming rule. And that is the FCC has no legal authority to issue such a rule for data since that is a common carrier authority which doesn't apply to data.

»www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily ··· 52A4.pdf
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

Net netural too I assume.

So Verizon builds the best high speed mobile broadband and now must let a low cost own nothing carrier leech off the network.

Brilliant just brilliant. The companies that are doers have smart people working there and they will not get taken for a ride. Brake up "The Bell System" and it comes back with less oversight than before. Brilliant just brilliant.


HappyAnarchy

@iauq.com
reply to pnh102

Re: Let's Kill Deployment

Discount doesn't mean free. They still get to charge for the access and they can lay out whether or not the charges are fair to the FCC.

Essentially, they are complaining that they will only make some profit off of the towers, instead of enough profit to try and drive smaller competitors out of business.


hamburglar_

join:2002-04-29
united state
Reviews:
·Vestalink
reply to batterup

Re: Net netural too I assume.

It's been happening for quite a while. They are called MVNOs.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVNO
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US ··· _US_MVNO

Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

1 recommendation

reply to TSWYO

Re: What roaming?

said by TSWYO:

Union needs a reasonable cost effective way to allow roaming…. This will help ensure that.

If they have the "best GSM coverage in Wyoming" there's a simple way for them to get cost effective roaming. Don't allow AT&T customers to roam on their network at a reasonable rate unless AT&T allows Union customers to do the same on the AT&T network.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to batterup

Re: Net netural too I assume.

The large carriers are charging the smaller carriers rates that are much higher than their own retail rates. This is supposed to help with that.

Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
reply to Simba7

Re: What roaming?

My Verizon phone went onto "extended network" (i.e: roaming partners) in Kentucky for a 40 to 50 mile stretch of I-65 last year. I was also roaming when I visited Mammoth Caves National Park. Looked it up when I got home and discovered I was using the network of a regional carrier called Blueglass cellular. I had full EVDO connectivity and voice handoffs between VZW's network and Blueglass were seemless.

I've also wound up on a roaming partner for the short stretch of I-81 through West Virginia. Not sure which carrier that is. Whomever they are they don't have EVDO because my phone always winds up on 1x during that portion of my roadtrips. Kind of sucks because it always kills my Pandora streaming. I drive through there often enough that I now try to schedule the phone calls I have to make to occur there. Of course that's also a PITA because they don't seem to do seemless handoffs to the VZW network like most roaming partners. My calls always drop when I leave the roaming footprint and rediscover the VZW network.

Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
reply to HappyAnarchy

Re: Let's Kill Deployment

No, they are complaining because the FCC has zero legal authority to do this. If the rule of law is to mean anything they should have to seek such authority from the US Congress because they can impose these rules.


hamburglar_

join:2002-04-29
united state
Reviews:
·Vestalink
reply to battleop

Re: Net netural too I assume.

Not sure where you are getting that information from? I had a Net10 CDMA phone on the Verizon Network last year. I had 150 Minutes for ~$13/month and they rolled over. There were over 1000 minutes left when I ported the number out last July.

I haven't seen a similar plan on Verizon for $13 a month, or even a 300 minute plan for $26. Hell, Net10 even has a 750min plan for $25/month and Straight Talk is $45 for unlimited. Not sure how they are charging more than retail and these companies are offering these plans?


cork1958
Cork
Premium
join:2000-02-26
reply to Mr Matt

Re: Crying! Mommy FCC is going to make me share my network!

said by Mr Matt:

Mommy the FCC is going to make me share my network with others, I want to take my ball and go home.

That's about what it sounds like and about how Verizon reacts to EVERYTHING!!
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openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to Mr Matt
How about you share access to your house, car, wife, and retirement portfolio with us for a nominal fee that we determine. Don't worry about the legalities, just do it.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to hamburglar_

Re: Net netural too I assume.

I don't know anything about Net10 so I am going to make an assumption that they are really just a Verizon wholesaler and not a wireless carrier that's going to have a roaming agreement.

The way that things are priced to the Verizon wholesalers is going to be completely different than someone like Cricket.

firedrakes

join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL
reply to HappyAnarchy

Re: Let's Kill Deployment

yeah . they make a insane amount of money on this. with almost no cost to them to run it


TSWYO
Premium
join:2003-05-03
Cheyenne, WY
reply to Crookshanks

Re: What roaming?

I am pretty sure they have a good agreement. I don't use Union myself, but when I was phone shopping a couple months ago, they have some pretty good rates... Cheaper than T and V


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to hamburglar_

Re: Net netural too I assume.

said by hamburglar_:

It's been happening for quite a while. They are called MVNOs.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVNO
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US ··· _US_MVNO

Carlos Slim, owner of Tracfone/Net10, negotiated with at&t, T-Moble, Verizon and even Cellular One for wholesale use of their network. He did not need the FCC to hold his hand. Perhaps that is why he is the richest man in the world. I use Tracfone for voice; I get the same quality voice as a post paid Verizon customer at a fraction of the cost. Verizon must be happy doing business with Slim; I had a problem with my voice mail and got Verizon customer service when I dialed 611. Verizon could not help me but looked up Carlos' number for me.

The government has to stop keeping dumb leeches in business.


grydlok

join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA
reply to Crookshanks

Re: What roaming?

I-81 doesn't go through West Virginia.

Now when I traveled up I-81 I noticed that the mountains would screw up the signal but my Verizon work phone, and Sprint phone would perform fine.


airtouch25

join:2007-05-22
united state
reply to batterup

Re: Net netural too I assume.

@batterup: At a huge condition though. Tracfone is not allowed to compete with Verizon or AT&T using the most high end devices. That way the big Bells keep Tracfone from ever being a high end competitor.

What the large incumbent carriers are doing is considered extortion by some. They are marking up roaming rates in excess of 600% margins to smaller regional carriers over what consumers would otherwise pay. The FCC is just stating that they can't gouge their competition by charging excessive roaming rates.

Even Sprint who likes to paint itself as a carrier for the customer used to charge Helio such high resale rates that Helio would get charged $3000 plus in usage charges for an user who actually thought his $79.99 aircard service was unlimited. Tactics like that are what eventually led to Helio's demise.

US carriers have learned to compete by killing their competition instead of trying to innovate.

mike656

join:2002-04-21
Orlando, FL
reply to grydlok

Re: What roaming?

Yes it does, for about 25 miles. The OP was referring to being on US Cellular in that part of WV, they have EVDO in that area but with no roaming agreement for it, all Verizon customers will only have access to 1x. All of I-81 thru WV and MD is USCC until getting to PA or VA when native VZ coverage starts again and EVDO.

mike656

join:2002-04-21
Orlando, FL
reply to Crookshanks
The handoff issue is weird because my phone works going from Verizon SID 18 (Balt-DC Net) to USCC on I-70 and back to Verizon, its worked for years. Maybe VZ systems 1912 (northern VA on 81) and 96 (Southern PA) don't have that connectivity yet.


buddahbless

join:2005-03-21
Premium
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
reply to airtouch25

Agreed...

airtouch "What the large incumbent carriers are doing is considered extortion " & " US carriers have learned to compete by killing their competition instead of trying to innovate."
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Now my question is before the ATT/ TMO merger goes through ( if it goes through) will TMO be allowed to roam on all ATT towers before then? regardless of the fact you wont be able to get 3g/4g data. Voice/txt and EDGE data in a place TMO customers couldnt get any service is a positive no matter how you look at it.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to airtouch25

Re: Net netural too I assume.

said by airtouch25:


US carriers have learned to compete by killing their competition instead of trying to innovate.

Really? You don't call Verizon FiOS or their 4G LTE broadband innovation? It cost billions, that is with a "B", of stock holders money, not government money. If you want to kill innovation make it a money losing endeavor. If someone wants the bells and whistles Verizon has use Verizon. Price controls WILL cause a shortage in the product that is controlled; that is a fact.

BTW Carlos has no problem making a cake out of the crumbs he buys.
quote:
It was a good quarter to be America Movil, the company that owns Tracfone, Net10, and Straight Talk. The company added 1.1 million subscribers in the fourth quarter, bringing it to 3.3 million for the year and 17.7 million overall. Even though it doesnt operate its own network, the company ranks as the No. 5 carrier in the country.
I call your attention the to the brilliant plan to deregulate "The Bell System". The US of A went from first for one hundred years to not first. I grow weary; oh well my Tracfone works.

BullyRED

join:2004-04-08
Grayslake, IL

Utility anyone?

Isn't this just the FCC's way of saying that wireless data and coverage should be considered a required utility for the people? This implies that any one company that provided access in a given area is prevented from monopolizing on that coverage in that specific area. For the small carriers this is a great thing and the big carriers should benefit as well as they should now be able to let you roam on the small carrier network (that probably already existed) for a reasonable price.

This means to me that a multi-radio phone that handles GSM, CMDA, EVDO, etc should now give me coverage nearly anywhere I go. As a consumer I feel this benefits me because now I don't have to worry about not being able to roam in any given area because there's uniform rules to handle the terms.

I understand the complaints of the big carriers that laid the network down in major areas in the first place but isn't this sort of like the railroads? They're a shared system which was built by others. Maybe in 50 years we won't care about who built the network and we'll care more about who's running the network.


anonanon

@verizon.net

Will stifle buildout

I completely agree with Verizon's position that the rules will stifle build-outs of new networks.

Remember when Verizon & at&t wanted to do FTTP and FTTN builds? They wouldn't do it until they 1st got a guarantee from the FCC that they wouldn't have to share those networks, because what incentive is there to spend the entire capital upfront and then have another company benefit from it?

It would be like you telling me to build an inground swimming pool in my backyard for $50,000 and then you'll pay me $5 every time you use it. Sorry pal, how about instead you help out with the upfront capital. You want to use it, then you pay $25000 and then 1/2 of all maintenance costs after its built. If not, then guess what its my pool, my backyard, and nobody can tell me who I let use it nor whether or not I can charge for it.

Guaranteed Verizon will probably not build out LTE networks in rural areas now and neither are the regional providers, so now these new rules means nobody builds it.

Furthermore, with wireless capacity being limited, what happens if an area is overloaded? Does the guy with Small Provider have the same priority onto the network as the guy with Verizon Wireless? I'd be pissed to be a paying Verizon Wireless subscriber and then because Small Provider is roaming onto the network all of a sudden either a)I can't connect or b)my speeds slow down. There better be a way to manage the network so the actual Verizon Wireless customers' data gets priority over the guy that's roaming onto the network because his provider is too cheap to build out there own.


Rich1982

@tmodns.net
reply to mike656

Re: What roaming?

When I was on verizon I had evdo through that stretch. I travel through that area twice a year when visiting family near nashville.