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Comments on news posted 2011-04-08 11:19:11: In addition to starting to refine signal booster rules, the FCC yesterday also announced (pdf) modified pole attachment rules, a move the FCC says will reduce costs for attaching broadband lines and wireless antennas to utility poles across the count.. ..


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

What roaming?

My phone (Verizon) has never went into "Roaming" so far, and that's going through Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Colorado.

..does roaming even exist anymore?

TSWYO
Premium
join:2003-05-03
Cheyenne, WY

Re: What roaming?

You need to look at the regional carriers... You mentioned Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana. Union Wireless is a regional GSM provider mostly in Wyoming but with towers in Norther Colorado and possible southern Montana. They have by far the best GSM coverage in Wyoming, but people travel out of those areas from time to time. Union needs a reasonable cost effective way to allow roaming…. This will help ensure that.
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

1 recommendation

Re: What roaming?

said by TSWYO:

Union needs a reasonable cost effective way to allow roaming…. This will help ensure that.

If they have the "best GSM coverage in Wyoming" there's a simple way for them to get cost effective roaming. Don't allow AT&T customers to roam on their network at a reasonable rate unless AT&T allows Union customers to do the same on the AT&T network.

TSWYO
Premium
join:2003-05-03
Cheyenne, WY

Re: What roaming?

I am pretty sure they have a good agreement. I don't use Union myself, but when I was phone shopping a couple months ago, they have some pretty good rates... Cheaper than T and V

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit
said by Simba7:

My phone (Verizon) has never went into "Roaming" so far, and that's going through Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Colorado.

..does roaming even exist anymore?

My Sprint smartphone has gone in to both voice & data roaming occasionally in the the Philly metro area in the past 2 yrs. Sprint roams on the dominant Verizon network in rural areas of Philly metro.

But Verizon only allows Sprint to data roam on 1x and not EVDO and that is why the FCC is involving itself.
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Nsane_iceman
Premium
join:2001-02-26
North Richland Hills, TX
said by Simba7:

My phone (Verizon) has never went into "Roaming" so far, and that's going through Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Colorado.

..does roaming even exist anymore?

Last time it happened to me was in the middle of no where Arkansas, with a VZW phone, back in 2002. I used to hear about people on Sprint that would randomly go "roaming" in a building, but that also was back in 2002-2003.
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Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
My Verizon phone went onto "extended network" (i.e: roaming partners) in Kentucky for a 40 to 50 mile stretch of I-65 last year. I was also roaming when I visited Mammoth Caves National Park. Looked it up when I got home and discovered I was using the network of a regional carrier called Blueglass cellular. I had full EVDO connectivity and voice handoffs between VZW's network and Blueglass were seemless.

I've also wound up on a roaming partner for the short stretch of I-81 through West Virginia. Not sure which carrier that is. Whomever they are they don't have EVDO because my phone always winds up on 1x during that portion of my roadtrips. Kind of sucks because it always kills my Pandora streaming. I drive through there often enough that I now try to schedule the phone calls I have to make to occur there. Of course that's also a PITA because they don't seem to do seemless handoffs to the VZW network like most roaming partners. My calls always drop when I leave the roaming footprint and rediscover the VZW network.

grydlok

join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA

Re: What roaming?

I-81 doesn't go through West Virginia.

Now when I traveled up I-81 I noticed that the mountains would screw up the signal but my Verizon work phone, and Sprint phone would perform fine.
mike656

join:2002-04-21
Orlando, FL

Re: What roaming?

Yes it does, for about 25 miles. The OP was referring to being on US Cellular in that part of WV, they have EVDO in that area but with no roaming agreement for it, all Verizon customers will only have access to 1x. All of I-81 thru WV and MD is USCC until getting to PA or VA when native VZ coverage starts again and EVDO.

Rich1982

@tmodns.net

Re: What roaming?

When I was on verizon I had evdo through that stretch. I travel through that area twice a year when visiting family near nashville.
mike656

join:2002-04-21
Orlando, FL

Re: What roaming?

Not on US cellular in that area, they have never had a roaming agreement with verizon for EVDO, nor do they anywhere else in the country.
mike656

join:2002-04-21
Orlando, FL
The handoff issue is weird because my phone works going from Verizon SID 18 (Balt-DC Net) to USCC on I-70 and back to Verizon, its worked for years. Maybe VZ systems 1912 (northern VA on 81) and 96 (Southern PA) don't have that connectivity yet.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Let's Kill Deployment

And exactly why are companies going to put up towers now if they know that other companies can use them at a discount?
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

HappyAnarchy

@iauq.com

Re: Let's Kill Deployment

Discount doesn't mean free. They still get to charge for the access and they can lay out whether or not the charges are fair to the FCC.

Essentially, they are complaining that they will only make some profit off of the towers, instead of enough profit to try and drive smaller competitors out of business.
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Re: Let's Kill Deployment

No, they are complaining because the FCC has zero legal authority to do this. If the rule of law is to mean anything they should have to seek such authority from the US Congress because they can impose these rules.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Let's Kill Deployment

and until then these carriers will sue the FCC and they'll get what they want. the FCC also has no ruling power for anything to do with pole access either. That is upto local and state governments NOT them.

the FCC is walking a fine line right now; especially with the budget in such a mess. Congress can easily start pulling money from their budget and put it some where else. And they damn well should if the FCC can't stay within their boundaries. of RULE making not law making (they have no law making power).
firedrakes

join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL
yeah . they make a insane amount of money on this. with almost no cost to them to run it

SHABAZZ

join:2008-07-13
Seattle, WA
No matter what the media says, REGULATION WILL NOT KILL BUSINESS! These large companies will complain then theyll calculate this cost into doing business. Towers will still go up as long as there is demand.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1

Crying! Mommy FCC is going to make me share my network!

Mommy the FCC is going to make me share my network with others, I want to take my ball and go home.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Crying! Mommy FCC is going to make me share my network!

The FCC's McDowell voted against data roaming and laid out the position Verizon will take in a court challenge to the new roaming rule. And that is the FCC has no legal authority to issue such a rule for data since that is a common carrier authority which doesn't apply to data.

»www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily···52A4.pdf
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cork1958
Cork
Premium
join:2000-02-26
said by Mr Matt:

Mommy the FCC is going to make me share my network with others, I want to take my ball and go home.

That's about what it sounds like and about how Verizon reacts to EVERYTHING!!
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openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
How about you share access to your house, car, wife, and retirement portfolio with us for a nominal fee that we determine. Don't worry about the legalities, just do it.
TheGhost
Premium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL

1 edit

Re: Crying! Mommy FCC is going to make me share my network!

Don't forget all of these companies were built on monopoly profits. They didn't get to be as big as they are and able to drive competitors out of business on pure competition alone.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

Net netural too I assume.

So Verizon builds the best high speed mobile broadband and now must let a low cost own nothing carrier leech off the network.

Brilliant just brilliant. The companies that are doers have smart people working there and they will not get taken for a ride. Brake up "The Bell System" and it comes back with less oversight than before. Brilliant just brilliant.

hamburglar_

join:2002-04-29
united state
Reviews:
·ObiVoice

Re: Net netural too I assume.

It's been happening for quite a while. They are called MVNOs.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVNO
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_MVNO

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

Re: Net netural too I assume.

said by hamburglar_:

It's been happening for quite a while. They are called MVNOs.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVNO
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_MVNO

Carlos Slim, owner of Tracfone/Net10, negotiated with at&t, T-Moble, Verizon and even Cellular One for wholesale use of their network. He did not need the FCC to hold his hand. Perhaps that is why he is the richest man in the world. I use Tracfone for voice; I get the same quality voice as a post paid Verizon customer at a fraction of the cost. Verizon must be happy doing business with Slim; I had a problem with my voice mail and got Verizon customer service when I dialed 611. Verizon could not help me but looked up Carlos' number for me.

The government has to stop keeping dumb leeches in business.

airtouch25

join:2007-05-22
united state

Re: Net netural too I assume.

@batterup: At a huge condition though. Tracfone is not allowed to compete with Verizon or AT&T using the most high end devices. That way the big Bells keep Tracfone from ever being a high end competitor.

What the large incumbent carriers are doing is considered extortion by some. They are marking up roaming rates in excess of 600% margins to smaller regional carriers over what consumers would otherwise pay. The FCC is just stating that they can't gouge their competition by charging excessive roaming rates.

Even Sprint who likes to paint itself as a carrier for the customer used to charge Helio such high resale rates that Helio would get charged $3000 plus in usage charges for an user who actually thought his $79.99 aircard service was unlimited. Tactics like that are what eventually led to Helio's demise.

US carriers have learned to compete by killing their competition instead of trying to innovate.

buddahbless

join:2005-03-21
Premium
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

Agreed...

airtouch "What the large incumbent carriers are doing is considered extortion " & " US carriers have learned to compete by killing their competition instead of trying to innovate."
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Now my question is before the ATT/ TMO merger goes through ( if it goes through) will TMO be allowed to roam on all ATT towers before then? regardless of the fact you wont be able to get 3g/4g data. Voice/txt and EDGE data in a place TMO customers couldnt get any service is a positive no matter how you look at it.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

Re: Net netural too I assume.

said by airtouch25:


US carriers have learned to compete by killing their competition instead of trying to innovate.

Really? You don't call Verizon FiOS or their 4G LTE broadband innovation? It cost billions, that is with a "B", of stock holders money, not government money. If you want to kill innovation make it a money losing endeavor. If someone wants the bells and whistles Verizon has use Verizon. Price controls WILL cause a shortage in the product that is controlled; that is a fact.

BTW Carlos has no problem making a cake out of the crumbs he buys.
quote:
It was a good quarter to be America Movil, the company that owns Tracfone, Net10, and Straight Talk. The company added 1.1 million subscribers in the fourth quarter, bringing it to 3.3 million for the year and 17.7 million overall. Even though it doesnt operate its own network, the company ranks as the No. 5 carrier in the country.
I call your attention the to the brilliant plan to deregulate "The Bell System". The US of A went from first for one hundred years to not first. I grow weary; oh well my Tracfone works.

airtouch25

join:2007-05-22
united state

Re: Net netural too I assume.

The FiOS buildout was in response to Verizon's willingness to get into the cable TV game to compete with Comcast and to keep Dial-up /DSL users from going to another company. Years later they still have only cherry picked certain neighborhoods.... But this is a different story for a different subject. We're talking about wireless roaming rates here.

I call Verizon Wireless' bluff. Big incumbents always threaten to stop investing and stop offering new services when their usual paid lobbying doesn't work. Verizon has too much to lose by doing just that. The FCC isn't saying they can't charge for roaming. They are telling Verizon you have to stop ripping people off. There is a huge difference.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

Re: Net netural too I assume.

said by airtouch25:

Years later they still have only cherry picked certain neighborhoods.... They are telling Verizon you have to stop ripping people off. There is a huge difference.

Just because this supposed forum keeps repeating something does not make it fact.

This is one of those cherry picked areas near beautiful Newark NJ. Notice the shiny new FiOS box on the pole. Funny how FiOS did not increase the property value.
»/r0/download/1···ed-1.jpg

How is Verizon "ripping off people"? The people are not paying Verizon anything. If they want top shelf service they can get it; from Verizon. You people keep singing the same song; it is the same tune MCI played 25 years ago.
TheGhost
Premium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL
VZ built its new FIOS network on the fruits of its government granted monopoly. The initial monopoly will forever hinder any true competition. The only competition it really has is from the Cable companies which themselves were built up from monopolies.

•••••••••

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
The large carriers are charging the smaller carriers rates that are much higher than their own retail rates. This is supposed to help with that.

•••
BullyRED

join:2004-04-08
Grayslake, IL

Utility anyone?

Isn't this just the FCC's way of saying that wireless data and coverage should be considered a required utility for the people? This implies that any one company that provided access in a given area is prevented from monopolizing on that coverage in that specific area. For the small carriers this is a great thing and the big carriers should benefit as well as they should now be able to let you roam on the small carrier network (that probably already existed) for a reasonable price.

This means to me that a multi-radio phone that handles GSM, CMDA, EVDO, etc should now give me coverage nearly anywhere I go. As a consumer I feel this benefits me because now I don't have to worry about not being able to roam in any given area because there's uniform rules to handle the terms.

I understand the complaints of the big carriers that laid the network down in major areas in the first place but isn't this sort of like the railroads? They're a shared system which was built by others. Maybe in 50 years we won't care about who built the network and we'll care more about who's running the network.

anonanon

@verizon.net

Will stifle buildout

I completely agree with Verizon's position that the rules will stifle build-outs of new networks.

Remember when Verizon & at&t wanted to do FTTP and FTTN builds? They wouldn't do it until they 1st got a guarantee from the FCC that they wouldn't have to share those networks, because what incentive is there to spend the entire capital upfront and then have another company benefit from it?

It would be like you telling me to build an inground swimming pool in my backyard for $50,000 and then you'll pay me $5 every time you use it. Sorry pal, how about instead you help out with the upfront capital. You want to use it, then you pay $25000 and then 1/2 of all maintenance costs after its built. If not, then guess what its my pool, my backyard, and nobody can tell me who I let use it nor whether or not I can charge for it.

Guaranteed Verizon will probably not build out LTE networks in rural areas now and neither are the regional providers, so now these new rules means nobody builds it.

Furthermore, with wireless capacity being limited, what happens if an area is overloaded? Does the guy with Small Provider have the same priority onto the network as the guy with Verizon Wireless? I'd be pissed to be a paying Verizon Wireless subscriber and then because Small Provider is roaming onto the network all of a sudden either a)I can't connect or b)my speeds slow down. There better be a way to manage the network so the actual Verizon Wireless customers' data gets priority over the guy that's roaming onto the network because his provider is too cheap to build out there own.

••••••

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

roaming?

Roaming is the first thing I turn off when I get a new phone.

RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1

Re: roaming?

said by aaronwt:

Roaming is the first thing I turn off when I get a new phone.

Why? It's included in most plans.

Jim_in_VA

join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:4

same'ol BS threat ...

" today's order discourages network investment in less profitable areas"

... as if they will EVER invest in those areas in the first place
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TheGhost
Premium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL

Re: same'ol BS threat ...

Bingo!

This is the key fact. VZ, at&t, etc are dropping remote areas. There are companies that can and will build out and service these areas, but they need access to a national network to compete. This keeps the remote areas alive.