  RobIn Deo speramus.Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3 | Can we put this to rest? Google is not the company everyone thought they were. They aren't the 'community', 'open source', 'everyone should have equal access' as everyone thought.
"You are who you hang out with", and Google hangs out with AT&T and Verizon.
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CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us | |
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 | | | Re: Can we put this to rest? No, the problem is that you chose att and verizon and they keep saying no to you, charging you an arm and a leg and yet you still keep them close and hug them, give them crazy amounts of money, even though they treat their customers like dirt.
The other two major carriers don't block these apps. In fact most of t-mobile's androids already have tethering enabled on the phone by default.
You chose to give your money to the companies that are restricting you.
Also you may want to note that the majority of the Google campus users are on t-mobile. | |
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| | RobIn Deo speramus.Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3 | Re: Can we put this to rest? said by del ftl :Also you may want to note that the majority of the Google campus users are on t-mobile.
Soon to be AT&T? | |
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| | | | | Re: Can we put this to rest? Well, T-Mobile was seen as the lesser of evils... Sometimes, a greater evil comes and takes over. | |
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| | | | | said by Rob:said by del ftl :Also you may want to note that the majority of the Google campus users are on t-mobile.
Soon to be AT&T? Maybe Google or Apple will take over T-Mobile.
Apple has so much cash sitting around that they could pay all cash for it, or some cash, some stock, and an AWS iPhone thrown it. | |
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| | | |  DarkLogixTexan and ProudPremium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
1 edit | Re: Can we put this to rest? they must be doing it only on phones they (att/vzw) directly sale
my nexus 1 (on AT&T) still has its built in tethering and ability to act as an AP | |
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| | | |  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Apple has enough cash on hand to buy several Central American dictatorships at this point.....
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Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power | |
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| | | | |  56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: Can we put this to rest? said by N3OGH:Apple has enough cash on hand to buy several Central American dictatorships at this point.....
Well, they certainly have a lot of experience in being dictatorial. | |
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| |
|  MaxoYour tax dollars at work.Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL | said by Rob:Google is not the company everyone thought they were. They aren't the 'community', 'open source', 'everyone should have equal access' as everyone thought.
"You are who you hang out with", and Google hangs out with AT&T and Verizon.
I think they got into the cell phone business wanting to be the great hero, but was quickly taught to pay ball by the carriers. I'm on my Verizon, but I've got Cyanogenmod installed, so my tethering isn't going anywhere soon.
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
»maxolasersquad.com/
»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide
»myspace.com/mlsquad | |
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| | | Google was never that way. They're all smoke and mirrors. They'll lie to the public; gov't and anyone else to get what they want. They're your typical company and people still believe them. I'm waiting for the day they'll start charging for G-Mail access. They're already moving toward charging for Google Apps by cutting the amount of email addresses you can have tied to your domain. It's getting cheaper to use MSFT Exchange and now Google. | |
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| crtune
join:2007-11-24
Valley Village, CA | Not to mention their work with the PRC. They and now Facebook are simply giant corporations, regardless of what their roots might be. Large corporations tend toward amoral behavior. That is why there are laws. Without them, corporations would be compelled to decide to do whatever resulted in the most profit regardless of ancillary destruction.
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Tune
Van Nuys, CA | |
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|
| | | Re: GREED! sounds right to me.i am very sick of this greedy assinine world we live in.someday it is going to crash hard and then those who were greedy will be in the same boat as us poor or middle class type folks.
no empire lasts forever and do not forget that historical fact. | |
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| WHT
join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5 | said by Mr Matt:  Wireless carriers are employing CAPS, crippling features and overcharging customers for one reason, GREED. Wireless ISP's are essentially a monopoly so they have the power to shake down and abuse customers who have no recourse. Extreme ETF hold the customer hostage.
Whoa, Trigger....You might think it's a matter of semantics; but within the industry, a wireless carrier (cellphone company with data plan) is not the same as a Wireless ISP (WISP). The December FCC ruling set them apart further - placing WISPs under the same restrictions (of preserving net neutrality) as compared to telcos (that can impose speed throttling, caps, etc.)
The WISP market is hardly a monopoly - it's a very competitive market. A WISP can't lobby a local or state government to prohibit competition. | |
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| | | |  Re: GREED!
Yeah, it is BS ... It's like buying a car and getting charged more monthly if you have 2 people riding in it instead of 1!!! Complete crap, they have to stop this BS ...
But again, don't blame Google, blame the wireless carrier's greed and stupidity ... | |
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| | |  TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
 ·Optimum Online
 ·Clearwire Wireless
| Re: GREED! said by cruz1 :But again, don't blame Google, blame the wireless carrier's greed and stupidity ...
I blame the consumer, who will purchase a piece of communications gear and allow someone else to dictate how it is used.
No one here would think of purchasing a PC, if their ISP could control what you did with it, and how. For some reason, purchasing a smart-phone, or tablet PC (just another style of computer) is seen as something different; when in fact it's the same thing!
Bob
--
"Remember, remember the fifth of November.
Gunpowder, Treason and Plot.
I see no reason why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot."
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people"
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| | | |  espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
 ·Vitelity VOIP
| Re: GREED! said by TamaraB:No one here would think of purchasing a PC, if their ISP could control what you did with it, and how. For some reason, purchasing a smart-phone, or tablet PC (just another style of computer) is seen as something different; when in fact it's the same thing! I see your point, but people buy gaming systems like PS3s and Xbox360s that have essentially the same limitations without hesitation. When I first bought my PS3 I could run linux on it and I could rip my DVD/Blu-Ray library and watch it by streaming it on the PS3. Now they've locked out Linux and Cinavia is rapidly putting an end to using that as a media streaming device.
I think the principle difference with cell phones is they are not sold as an open computing device. Companies offer unlimited mobile data plans because they have some control over their own destiny by forcing the phones through transcoding proxies and limiting content in a way that doesn't occur when you attach a PC via tethering.
It's been the perpetual problem with consumer Internet services. These companies built out their networks so they want their subscribers to use them as much as they want, except they don't want them to use them too much. It's an inherently contradictory position, and represents a major malfunction in marketing departments in all of these companies. | |
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 SeleniaI love DebianPremium
join:2006-09-22
Lanesboro, MA
kudos:2 | Confirmed on AT&T Yes, even on custom firmware based on BHell's, but with the fluff gone and Setiron's kernel and custom interface. This ROM shows normally region-blocked apps. I was over wifi to boot. This must be a really low level block. However, I can install apks, unlike stock ROMs without root, so I can get around it. If it's only tethering apps, my ROM does tethering and mobile hotspot natively, anyways. Still troubling how it can even be blocked at such a low level that even custom ROMs do not help, unlike with region restrictions.
--
A fool thinks they know everything.
A wise person knows enough to know they couldn't possibly know everything.
There are zealots for every OS, like every religion. They do not represent the majority of users for either. | |
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| | Random? No. AT&T's been trying to crack down on the practice lately, firing random e-mails at users who aren't signed up for tethering, but whose accounts show higher-than-normal usage for smartphones.
I doubt they're random, I use 10-20GB a month because I stream video all the time through the iTunes app (podcasts). I've never jailbroken my phone though. No letter or threats from AT&T, though I also have several FCC complaints on file against them as well already, so that could be another reason.
Next Bill Cycle: 05/14/2011
Data (MB): 14252.1 of Unlimited
Messaging: 5841 of Unlimited | |
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| SeleniaI love DebianPremium
join:2006-09-22
Lanesboro, MA
kudos:2 | Re: Random? No. I only ever tether in an emergency, which is very rare. That being said, I use lots of data over my native smartphone apps and not a peep from AT&T. | |
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|  Duramax08Win8 sucksPremium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX | Im using about a gig per day just by streaming netflix on my iphone. Thank you grandfathered unlimited plan. | |
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| | Amaazon App Store What is going on with the Amazon app store? I think the next step in tethering will eb automatic VPNning when tethering to block them. | |
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| | | Re: Amaazon App Store The tether apps are still available on the Amazon app store. I don't know why everything is crying Google is now less open. Android can still install apps from 3rd party sources outside the Market. The Market isn't wide open (it doesn't need to be and shouldn't be) but Android still is.
Or is ATT/VZW locking down 3 party installs as well? This is separate from rooting. | |
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| |  gerglesGregPremium
join:2003-05-30
San Francisco, CA | Re: Amaazon App Store ATT blocks 3rd party installs on all their android phones. | |
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| | |  joakoPremium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:5
·Comcast
| Re: Amaazon App Store said by gergles:ATT blocks 3rd party installs on all their android phones.
So for the user there's no difference in iPhone vs Android? Jailbreak vs Root -- same shit.
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PRescott7-2097 | |
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| | | | | That sucks. I though ATT opened it back up earlier this year. Is VZW doing this too? I can do can install 3rd party on my EVO w/out being rooted (though I am). | |
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| | | | | said by gergles:ATT blocks 3rd party installs on all their android phones.
They don't seem to be blocking apps uploaded to the phone over usb. There's a program called adb in the Android developers kit that the kit uses to install home-grown apps. It'll also install downloaded apps from elsewhere. This is with a stock, unrooted Atrix. | |
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| | SeleniaI love DebianPremium
join:2006-09-22
Lanesboro, MA
kudos:2 | said by xenophon:The tether apps are still available on the Amazon app store. I don't know why everything is crying Google is now less open. Android can still install apps from 3rd party sources outside the Market. The Market isn't wide open (it doesn't need to be and shouldn't be) but Android still is.
Or is ATT/VZW locking down 3 party installs as well? This is separate from rooting.
You need to at least root. You can keep the stock firmware, but why would you?
--
A fool thinks they know everything.
A wise person knows enough to know they couldn't possibly know everything.
There are zealots for every OS, like every religion. They do not represent the majority of users for either. | |
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| | there are still ways around you can still get these apps easy enough if you search around for a how to.
Really pretty simple.
What google is saying is true because you can still get it from them...just not as easily as before. | |
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 dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | G ewwwwww gle $o much for the "openne$$" of google.
money ha$ a way of doing that!
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The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese | |
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houghe9
join:2008-02-27
Lexington Park, MD | .. I have an alltel plan and tethering was included on my data plan for free. if i am still under an alltel plan with verizon, can verizon take tethering away? | |
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| | | Re: .. They're not "taking tethering away" so much as keeping people from downloading the tethering APPs from the market.
Most phones you could download and install the blocked apps elsewhere anyway, so not a big deal. | |
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| |  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: .. You can sideload on most VZ Android phones, but I haven't seen an at&t phone that has sideload capabilities.. unless you install a different ROM. | |
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| | | Draganta
join:2004-12-16
Oakland Gardens, NY | Re: .. Side Load Wonder Machine | |
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| | | | Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: .. Still a pain.. and it only works if your Android is connected to a computer. | |
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beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Open Good think Android is "open". Wait.... | |
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|  ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Open it is open. the carriers lock it down. if you want open you have to run custom firmware. | |
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| | Don't blame Google ... Yes this pisses me off ... but don't blame Google, blame the carriers... if they didn't didn't do this, the carriers (AT&T / Verizon) would do all they can do make sure Android FAILS and shove whatever other crap OS phone they can force down your throat that you don't want as long as it can be controlled. It's a sickening game but at least it is "more" open than other mobile OS ... | |
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| | | Re: Don't blame Google ... Well Google is complicit in this, so how are they not to blame as well? Android Market belongs to Google, not the carriers  | |
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 IT GuyOw, My BallsPremium
join:2004-07-29
Las Cruces, NM | So... This is what T-Mobile customers get to look forward to? I can tether on T-Mobile right now with no fuss. Once this AT&T deal is sealed, I'm jumping ship.
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Don't worry, scro. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. | |
|
Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Rolling up your sleeves since the carrier and internet providers feel like they can no longer make money with the "walled-garden" approach (AOL), they want to make money on their pipes...and I blame ubiquity for this. The more people use something (as a population), the more lucrative it becomes, and the more dumb ideas the companies come out with to make money, for no other reason than "as long as 99.999% of them dont care/notice, we will make a ton!!"
Happy casual tether-er since 2007, courtesy of SERO. | |
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 RoboticsSee You On The Dark SidePremium
join:2003-10-23
Louisa, VA
·Verizon Wireless..
·Comcast
| No Problem Here...Yet I can still tether on my original Droid, on Verizon. Don't do it that often, but its working right now.
Confused what all this talk is about.
Have they started blocking already, or its in the works?
--
Long you live and high you fly, and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry,
and all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be. | |
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|
See 8 replies to this post |
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| | A significant sum? $25 per month for a 2GB smartphone data plan is a significant sum? | |
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See 11 replies to this post |
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decifal
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1 | aha Lol, my old saying goes like the capital one commerical "AT&T!! WHAT'S IN YOUR WALLET?!?!?"
Sorry, I just like saying that.. Especially sense I've seen ATT's commercial saying "EVERYONE" is eligible for DSL, even though its not.... | |
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 HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:2 | On WiFi - not VZW network - still missing I thought a way around this would be to access the Market via WiFi and not via VZW's network, but to no avail...  | |
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| | | Re: On WiFi - not VZW network - still missing Amazon app store, or other means.  | |
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| | HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:2 | Re: On WiFi - not VZW network - still missing I already have the app | |
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| | Why worry about this? Most tethering apps required you have root access anyway. If you have root, you also have the ability to sideload apps not available in the Market. So this move, while making it SLIGHTLY more difficult to implement, really will not stop tethering AT ALL!
I have no problem with Google's capitulation to the wireless carrier's request to take down the apps. It IS in violation of your contract (even if you dont agree with it, its what you signed up for!), so these apps should NOT be in the official market. The beautiful thing about Android, though, is that you can always find other sources for the software you run on the phone that you own. | |
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| Reviews:
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·Comcast
| Re: Why worry about this? Right, blame the carriers NOT Google... I'm tired of seeing people blame Google for stupid carriers... It is all part of a CONTRACT that the carriers signed with Google and Google has to comply!  | |
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| | joakoPremium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Why worry about this? said by cooperaaaron:Right, blame the carriers NOT Google... I'm tired of seeing people blame Google for stupid carriers... It is all part of a CONTRACT that the carriers signed with Google and Google has to comply!
What contract did they sign with Google? Google doesn't make phones, google makes opensource software the phone makers use.
So really it's the phone makers, and that market has obviously been locked down for years. Do smartphones really cost $600? Sure if you as a phone maker only sell to 5 customers.
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PRescott7-2097 | |
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| | | | | Re: Why worry about this? Actually, many handsets actually *do* cost quite a lot more than the subsidized price to make. $500-600 isn't unreasonable if you add up all the inputs/R&D/marketing/admin costs. How do I know this? Simple. The company my wife works for manufactures several types of parts used inside the iPhone, Droid, as well as various handsets by other firms. I've seen some of the breakdowns. To repeat ad nauseum, wireless companies do not make money from handset sales, only service. This is old news, folks. | |
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 GbcueP.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 | Sideload Just sideload the app (from the developers' website) and be done with the Google Market.
Unless you're on AT&Crap, in which they cripple your phone to disable sideloading unless you're rooted.
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My Blog 2.2 | |
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openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | If You Need to Load an App, Then.... said by Karl Bode:some would call it crippling the embedded functionality of a smartphone Since an extraneous app is required for these tethering options, how is this likened to crippling embedded functionality? This claim continues to be bandied about, but yet it only holds merit if you consider paying money for an additional service "crippling". | |
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| SeleniaI love DebianPremium
join:2006-09-22
Lanesboro, MA
kudos:2 | Re: If You Need to Load an App, Then.... said by openbox9:said by Karl Bode:some would call it crippling the embedded functionality of a smartphone Since an extraneous app is required for these tethering options, how is this likened to crippling embedded functionality? This claim continues to be bandied about, but yet it only holds merit if you consider paying money for an additional service "crippling". Wrong! Android has native tethering functionality. I have it on my uncrippled ROM, as does the rest of the world outside the United Corporations of America(I have a Captivate, but lookup whether its worldly variant, the i9000, has tethering. Heck, even look at the iphones from around the world). iOS has it natively, too(except, again in the United Corporations of America). In fact, AT&T enables this native function on both phones for a monthly ransom. The only reason these apps are useful is because of the crippling of this native functionality done by the carriers. It's like selling you half the phone the you have to give them recurring monthly extortion payments for them to let you have the rest of it aka remove the crippling they put in place. Part of it, anyways. The stock ROMs still suck even then and don't allow the user system level control. I can see a carrier lock when they are subsidizing the phone, but you pay full price in the end and it should be automatically removed when contract is up. As to saying how I can use my very limited data-that is greed. Excessive usage exits the picture essentially when they are charging people $10/GB. So, they rape you with charges and your phone with crippling. Why do you side with corporations on such obvious issues? You are a smart person, but your logic seems to fail when you hear that ca-ching!
--
A fool thinks they know everything.
A wise person knows enough to know they couldn't possibly know everything.
There are zealots for every OS, like every religion. They do not represent the majority of users for either. | |
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| | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: If You Need to Load an App, Then.... Android, iOS, and just about every modern phone OS have native SMS capabilities too. Silly telcos charging customers for premium services. You can use your device any way you want, but when you connect it to a carrier's network, you'll abide by its rules. I've stated it before, but consumers better be careful what they ask for, they might just get it. Just wait for when you're paying $60/mth for that 3GB data plan so that you can do whatever you want with, using any app. That'll be nice
I'm not siding with corporations per se, but rather discussing reality. So far I haven't heard a real compelling argument to change my viewpoint. Consumer whining doesn't trend to sway my viewpoint much. As for ca-ching, I'm a paying customer with two Droid X's on Verizon Wireless' network, so I'm living this just as much as most consumers. | |
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| | | SeleniaI love DebianPremium
join:2006-09-22
Lanesboro, MA
kudos:2 | Re: If You Need to Load an App, Then.... The sad part is some of these device restrictions do affect the device, even if it is offline. A good example given in this thread was Verizon crippling phones so that you can't transfer pictures directly to a PC. A more modern example is AT&T preventing .apk installs in Android. Let's say you downloaded the .apk, let's say an open source terminal not on the market, over wifi, then install it in hopes to easily mod a few system parameters, maybe via scripting. Then, as it would turn out, nothing to do with the app happened over their network, but they are still trying to prevent you from doing it. Does that sound right to you? The crippling goes far beyond what you do on their network with many phones. I am a happy owner of a custom ROMed Captivate. It has tethering, but I seldom ever use it. I have a Verizon Mifi for that. Still, I do much more with my phone with this custom ROM than I possibly could have with the crippled one. Guess what? Nothing I generally do even bends any of the rules in my ToS. So why should the stock ROMs not allow me to do it if what I do abides by my ToS? Lowest common denominator? While not necessarily greed, they should simply just enforce the ToS, not cripple devices to hell assuming everyone will violate the ToS. A good example is the tethering option being right in front of me at all times, but I don't use it. Only use it ever got was some testing(just curious to see if it worked well, which it did) before T introduced the tethering plans. After that short test, I turned my Mifi back on.
--
A fool thinks they know everything.
A wise person knows enough to know they couldn't possibly know everything.
There are zealots for every OS, like every religion. They do not represent the majority of users for either. | |
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| | | | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: If You Need to Load an App, Then.... said by Selenia:A good example given in this thread was Verizon crippling phones so that you can't transfer pictures directly to a PC. I agree, that was annoying, but that hasn't been relevant for a while now has it?said by Selenia:A more modern example is AT&T preventing .apk installs in Android. Let's say you downloaded the .apk, let's say an open source terminal not on the market, over wifi, then install it in hopes to easily mod a few system parameters, maybe via scripting. Changing most system parameters will require root, which avoids AT&T's limitation on sideloading apps. Having stated that, a vast majority of consumers will never have this issue since they'll be grabbing apps from the Market.said by Selenia:Does that sound right to you? I will agree that AT&T stepped over the line a little on blocking sideloaded apps, but I doubt that will change since as I mentioned, most consumers will even know the restriction exists.said by Selenia:So why should the stock ROMs not allow me to do it if what I do abides by my ToS? Lowest common denominator? Yes.said by Selenia:While not necessarily greed, they should simply just enforce the ToS, not cripple devices to hell assuming everyone will violate the ToS. Ask a hundred smartphone users on the street if they believe their smartphones are crippled and let me know what you find. I'm betting that a vast majority of consumers don't have any issues with their devices and are generally happy. | |
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| | Tethering Blocks This is really wild. I had PDANet installed on my Incredible (VZW), now when I go to the Market, it is no longer listed as an installed app. When I tried to download the new version, it said select another device and had my gmail account greyed out. I don't actually use the app at all, just wanted to see if and how it works, and the new version has troubles wtih bluetooth connections, so after I sideloaded it and played with it a while I threw it away again.
But this is disgusting as a matter of principle, TOS be damned. I have always hated American carriers and their stance towards monetizing tethering as an additional revenue stream for a number of years now, particularly in light of the fact that other countries do NOT disable tethering, with O2 the latest UK carrier to DROP tethering charges on plans of 100 Meg or more.
If this is what Verizon lobbied congress to block net neutrality rules from wireless networks for, then I'll take socialism and strong federal regulation of private enterprise over unregulated feudal capitalism any day. | |
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| stridr69
join:2003-05-19
San Luis Obispo, CA | Re: Tethering Blocks Well...I have PDANet installed on my HTC Incredible as you read this...so what's you're problem? Simple...you're not rooted. Bummer, dude. Also have WiFi tether as well. I bet you don't...dude. Bummer. VZW=FTW. Just gotta know how to play the game. Sideloading? Jeeze...incredibly(sic) simple. Apps Installer(Market) is your friend.  | |
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GREED!
