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Comments on news posted 2011-05-25 13:18:48: Nate Anderson at Ars Technica directs our attention to a tool out of Georgia Tech dubbed ShaperProbe, which detects and identifies the kind of traffic shaping being employed by your ISP. ..


battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

The tool is worthless, atleast on Win7

Tried it on 3 different Win7 boxes and each time it crashes.
zed2608
Premium Member
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN

zed2608

Premium Member

Re: The tool is worthless, atleast on Win7

said by battleop:

Tried it on 3 different Win7 boxes and each time it crashes.

run it as administrator

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to battleop

Premium Member

to battleop
said by battleop:

Tried it on 3 different Win7 boxes and each time it crashes.

I run it on 2 different Win 7 systems without problems. It never crashes. Are you running it in "Administrator mode"?
Grafton
join:2006-08-26
Morgantown, WV

Grafton

Member

Re: The tool is worthless, atleast on Win7

Worked fine for me, not even running as administrator, but on a 64bit system...

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
I guess it's too much trouble to tell users to do that. I don't think I've come across anything on this laptop where I had to use Run As Administrator.

Now I get

"Server busy or measurement aborted. Please try again later."

Oh well.

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

DarkLogix

Premium Member

Re: The tool is worthless, atleast on Win7

I think the big blog effect might have hit it

siouxmoux2
@sbcglobal.net

siouxmoux2 to battleop

Anon

to battleop
Of course AT&T is not shaping Internet Traffic. Because they now have Metering tier pricing in place. The more Bandwidth their customers uses the more money ATT make.

NoLuckChuck
@teksavvy.com

NoLuckChuck

Anon

Re: The tool is worthless, atleast on Win7

Bell and Rogers up in Canada still haven't figured this out.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory to battleop

Member

to battleop
Works for me just fine. Try running it as Administrator.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

FFH5

Premium Member

ShaperProbe not new

ShaperProbe is not new. Ars Tehnica created a headline not even recognizing the part of their OWN story that talks about the tools collection of 2 yrs worth of data. I and others have been using it for a couple years now. The report they put out, however, may be new after collecting data for a long time.

They are working on a Windows 7 version that works better with the dynamic RWIN capability.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: ShaperProbe not new

The report (linked as "results" in Karl's story above) is interesting and shows that shaping is still evolving as new capacity allows higher burst speeds.

nerdburg
Premium Member
join:2009-08-20
Schuylkill Haven, PA

nerdburg

Premium Member

So what?

Since virtually every ISP advertises the shaping - what's the big deal? Typical network use is "bursty" which is what shaping is all about.
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN

Chubbysumo

Member

Re: So what?

Charter does not use shaping. Tried the tool many times now, and it does not detect shaping on charter.

ToxicDrew
Premium Member
join:2001-09-24

ToxicDrew

Premium Member

Re: So what?

Yup just ran it on my Charter connection and the result was no shaping.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to nerdburg

Member

to nerdburg
True. But TWC is now lying about it but users don't care. TWC claims they don't shape nor cap users- when its outlined in their CONTRACT NOT AUP/TOS.
45612019 (banned)
join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

45612019 (banned)

Member

Re: So what?

TWC users don't care because TWC doesn't have bandwidth caps. It's a welcome trade-off.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: So what?

TWC does. Read your Contract. and Yes with them its a CONTRACT NOT an AUP/TOS. It's been linked on here many many times but only to get it removed as some do not want to really admit that TWC does in fact have caps. They're soft caps an they DO enforce them in each market.

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
·Charter
Ubee EU2251
Ubiquiti UAP-IW-HD
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-AC-HD

Smith6612

MVM

Re: So what?

No he is not. A friend of mine actually had Time Warner call him up asking why he was consuming what was essentially "80 homes" worth of data on his 10Mbps connection. He's heavy on HTPC/HD Streaming/Torrenting as well as gaming, and he has multiple PCs running at any given time. Hence the call.

They haven't hassled him since the call, but since then he also upgraded to a higher speed package and started consuming even more data.

So yes, the "Soft Cap" is enforced, maybe not strictly enforced, but they will question usage if they see you running your modem maxed often, as laid out in the AUP. As far as shaping, I haven't noticed Time Warner doing anything shady in my area to anything over any protocol.
45612019 (banned)
join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

45612019 (banned)

Member

Re: So what?

I'm not buying it.

I used to push over 2TB a month on TWC before.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: So what?

go read your contract. help.rr.com it states right on there. its for ALL users of Residential RoadRunner.
45612019 (banned)
join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

45612019 (banned)

Member

Re: So what?

"We can use reasonable network management practices =/= We have a DEFINITE bandwidth cap"

Every single provider on the planet has that clause. It means nothing. Quit trying to damage control. You and I both know that TWC has no bandwidth caps at this time and they have never booted someone off for "excessive usage." I am a testament to that.

I'll be surprised if Time Warner doesn't follow Comcap and AT$T in the future but there's no reason to take a shit on them for something they haven't done yet.
CharlesH1
join:2011-04-29
Milpitas, CA

4 edits

CharlesH1

Member

No problem for me

I also have had no problems running shaperprobe as a non-Admin user on my Windows 7 machine.

Note that shaperprobe's primary purpose is not as a user application; it is an academic data-gathering research tool, which also happens to provide useful information to users. This is made clear when you install it.

I guess we are primed to attribute nefarious motives to anything the big ISPs do. As mentioned in the referenced paper, Comcast advertises the shaping functionality as PowerBoost; the advertised data rates are those AFTER the shaping kicks in.
FactChecker
Premium Member
join:2008-06-03

1 recommendation

FactChecker

Premium Member

Shaping Happens

Comcast shapes traffic using the PowerBoost technology.

If I am reading this right, it is saying that the "shaping" is giving better than provisioned speed for 70+% of the time. So the so called "small burst of speed" applies over and over again to more than 70% of your download AND upload usage. Sure that 2G file does not get "boosted" for the entire download, but video streaming does (since it grabs video buffers), gaming, email, web, most of your interactive traffic get's better than provisioned speed via Powerboost.

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

DarkLogix

Premium Member

Re: Shaping Happens

after the data stream "levles out" your at your provisioned rate
if you keep the data stream atleat at the provisioned rate then the shaping "bucket" as the artical calls it keeps you limited to the token rate ie provisioned rate
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
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join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert to FactChecker

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to FactChecker
said by FactChecker:

Comcast shapes traffic using the PowerBoost technology.

If I am reading this right, it is saying that the "shaping" is giving better than provisioned speed for 70+% of the time. So the so called "small burst of speed" applies over and over again to more than 70% of your download AND upload usage. Sure that 2G file does not get "boosted" for the entire download, but video streaming does (since it grabs video buffers), gaming, email, web, most of your interactive traffic get's better than provisioned speed via Powerboost.

Contrary to popular myth Powerboost technology is only good for one thing...downloading small files...aside from that it's useless, pointless and actually can have a negative impact on applications that rely upon a consistent datarate such as streaming. It also impacts the results of speedtests, quality of service tests and the very same shaping tests as described in this article.

While I know many of you are yelling at TWC for shaping they aren't really shaping in the old Comcast way of things. Problem is their Turboboost is a form of shaping and is being detected as such and therefore the shaping label does apply to them. But if you are worried that TWC is doing the same thing as Comcast was and is the answer is NO.

As for the Turbo boost...10 years from now when we look back on Turbo boost we will all laugh at how stupid we were for even considering such a thing. Turbo boost makes it nearly impossible to gauge real-world results and is no friend to consumer or company alike. When it was first released it seemed like a nifty idea...but sometimes it doesn't end up working as expected.

***Happy Geek Pride Day***
FactChecker
Premium Member
join:2008-06-03

FactChecker

Premium Member

Re: Shaping Happens

said by BHNtechXpert:

Contrary to popular myth Powerboost technology is only good for one thing...downloading small files...aside from that it's useless, pointless and actually can have a negative impact on applications that rely upon a consistent datarate such as streaming. It also impacts the results of speedtests, quality of service tests and the very same shaping tests as described in this article.

This is a bit of a glass is half (or totally) empty statement. Since the majority of almost all users' Internet experience is ALL based on small files Powerboost is far from useless. Even video streaming today is based on downloading small buffers of video every few min. The Netflix traffic profile fits perfectly into PB.
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
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join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

1 recommendation

BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

Re: Shaping Happens

said by FactChecker:

said by BHNtechXpert:

Contrary to popular myth Powerboost technology is only good for one thing...downloading small files...aside from that it's useless, pointless and actually can have a negative impact on applications that rely upon a consistent datarate such as streaming. It also impacts the results of speedtests, quality of service tests and the very same shaping tests as described in this article.

This is a bit of a glass is half (or totally) empty statement. Since the majority of almost all users' Internet experience is ALL based on small files Powerboost is far from useless. Even video streaming today is based on downloading small buffers of video every few min. The Netflix traffic profile fits perfectly into PB.

Actually no it doesn't because it isn't consistent. PB technology lasts on average the first 7-12 seconds of a specific session and depending on network conditions may not even engage at all. This also happens to be during the time which a streaming client establishes a connection and adjusts datarates based upon a specific the connections capacity at that moment. Only problem is once the PB window is passed the datarate suddenly drops thus forcing the client to adjust suddenly to the new datarate. I'm not quite sure who taught you otherwise....but they were wrong.

PB is no friend to streaming...period.
nysports4evr
Premium Member
join:2010-01-23

2 recommendations

nysports4evr to BHNtechXpert

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to BHNtechXpert
I don't understand the complaint about PowerBoost technology in itself.

It's helpful in some cases -- faster initial buffering of audio/video, etc & downloading small files.

And there's really no negative -- you still get your provisioned rate after PowerBoost is over.

The only thing I'd like to see changed is a more clear advertising of their actual rates, and PowerBoost rates.

poopiepants
join:2003-10-04
King, NC

1 recommendation

poopiepants

Member

Re: Shaping Happens

powerboost is a stupid gimmick who really cares?? all I care about is having my ISP catch up with the times and roll out faster tiers.
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

4 edits

1 recommendation

BHNtechXpert to nysports4evr

Premium Member

to nysports4evr
said by nysports4evr:

I don't understand the complaint about PowerBoost technology in itself.

It's helpful in some cases -- faster initial buffering of audio/video, etc & downloading small files.

And there's really no negative -- you still get your provisioned rate after PowerBoost is over.

The only thing I'd like to see changed is a more clear advertising of their actual rates, and PowerBoost rates.

Here's a simple expl of the benefits and disadvantages:

Benefits to the consumer:

1) Slight increase in download speeds for the first few seconds of the download (determined by bytes transferred not time) provided that the PB window was not already activated by another internet task.

Disadvantages to the consumer:

1). Makes it impossible for you to accurately test your connection speed with all browser based speed tests (with the exception of capacity tests and there is only one site offering such a thing) so no matter what you do your test results will always reflect the powerboost speed not your real world connection speed as none of the major testing sites test based on connection capacity.

2). Makes it impossible for you to accurately benchmark the QoS (Quality of Service) your provider is giving you because QoS uses consistency of speed as a major portion of the test and since you start off at a high datarate and suddenly drop off after the PB window your QoS rating is greatly affected and can skew the results either way (in favor of or against the consumer or provider).

3). Despite claims to the contrary PB impacts streaming applications greatly especially on slower systems where connection management overhead impacts system performance even on a good connection. Streaming is I/O intensive and on a slower system can be difficult under the best of conditions. Force the streaming application to constantly buffer or adjust itself because of significant datarate fluctuations and it can greatly impact those on slower systems.

4. PB lulls consumers into thinking they have a higher datarate than they actually do and can even mask hidden issues with a given connection because consumers in general don't know what to look for when they have problems.

Look if all you do is download a file now and again PB will benefit you. It will not benefit you at all for websurfing because in all cases the PB datarate exceeds the speed of your browser max tcp of 12-15mbps (single session) anyway. If you stream, game, p2p or any application where consistency of datarate is important it offers you no benefits whatsoever. It's great from a marketing standpoint and SOME users will benefit from it but the majority of power users will derive very little benefit especially after that 12 second ride.

Anyone who really needs the speed and consistency should consider a faster Docsis 3 based product and just dispense with the turbo. Your uploads with thank you...your downloads will thank you...your Netflix will really thank you...

•••••••••••

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

to BHNtechXpert
said by BHNtechXpert:

said by FactChecker:

Comcast shapes traffic using the PowerBoost technology.

If I am reading this right, it is saying that the "shaping" is giving better than provisioned speed for 70+% of the time. So the so called "small burst of speed" applies over and over again to more than 70% of your download AND upload usage. Sure that 2G file does not get "boosted" for the entire download, but video streaming does (since it grabs video buffers), gaming, email, web, most of your interactive traffic get's better than provisioned speed via Powerboost.

Contrary to popular myth Powerboost technology is only good for one thing...downloading small files...

And since that is 90% of the time a user spends online - that is browsing the Internet, it is of good use to most users.
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

1 recommendation

BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

Re: Shaping Happens

said by FFH5:

And since that is 90% of the time a user spends online - that is browsing the Internet, it is of good use to most users.

No it's not because it only works for the first few seconds of the session. Meaning that once you exceed the PB window you are browsing at normal speeds and if you have any other internet traffic going then you will never see the PB effect at all because the first session gets the boost...after that it has no effect whatsoever.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK to FFH5

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to FFH5
It's important to consider the difference between small files and sessions. Small files on the same session = no benefit by PB.
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN

Chubbysumo

Member

Charter FTW

ran it many times, and no shaping detected. is that win?

ctceo
Premium Member
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN

ctceo

Premium Member

Worked ok for me

DiffProbe beta release. October 2009. Build 1002.
Shaper Detection Module.

Connected to server 38.102.0.111.

Estimating capacity:
Upstream: 651 Kbps.
Downstream: 4850 Kbps.

The measurement will take upto 2.5 minutes. Please wait.

Checking for traffic shapers:

Upstream: No shaper detected.
Median received rate: 634 Kbps.

Downstream: No shaper detected.
Median received rate: 4741 Kbps.

For more information, visit: »www.cc.gatech.edu/~parth ··· iffprobe

Johkal
Cool Cat
MVM
join:2002-11-13
Pennsyltucky

Johkal

MVM

Late to the game!

Quite a bit behind the times here. The folk on the Comcast forum have been using this for quite some time.

Diaboyos
join:2007-08-21
united state

Diaboyos

Member

Comcast Shaping

Shows Comcast is shaping my down but not my up.
ame101
join:2002-05-02
Torrington, CT

ame101

Member

Cox in CT

DiffProbe beta release. October 2009. Build 1002.
Shaper Detection Module.

Connected to server 217.163.1.74.

Estimating capacity:
Upstream: 7248 Kbps.
Downstream: 97965 Kbps.

The measurement will take upto 2.5 minutes. Please wait.

Checking for traffic shapers:

Upstream: Burst size: 3144-3245 KB;
Shaping rate: 4293 Kbps.

Downstream: Burst size: 16034-18388 KB;
Shaping rate: 38752 Kbps.

Mannus
Premium Member
join:2005-10-25
Fort Wayne, IN

Mannus

Premium Member

Frontier FiOS in IN (15/5 package)

Estimating capacity:
Upstream: 7349 Kbps.
Downstream: 24424 Kbps.

The measurement will take up to 2.5 minutes. Please wait.

Checking for traffic shapers :

Upstream: No shaper detected.
Median received rate: 6496 Kbps.

Downstream: No shaper detected.
Median received rate: 23893 Kbps.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Verizon FiOS
Ubiquiti NSM5
Synology RT2600ac
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

TamaraB

Premium Member

So, what does this mean?

~prober
DiffProbe beta release. October 2009.
Shaper Detection Module.

Connected to server 38.98.51.25.

Estimating capacity:
Upstream: 23413 Kbps.
Downstream: greater than 100 Mbps.

The measurement will last for about 2.5 minutes. Please wait.

Checking for traffic shapers:

Upstream: No shaper detected.
Median received rate: 22960 Kbps.

Downstream: Burst size: 2713-3716 KB; Shaping rate: 37 Kbps.

----------------------------------------

Shaping rate: 37 Kbps means what??
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

Apparently accuracy isn't a trademark of this tool...

I ran the test 10 times over a period of one hour. I got a different result each time. First there was shaping...then wasn't shaping then there was but there wasn't....please...this tool is useless...don't waste your time with it.

The bottom line is the only results that were accurate were the ones that said there was no shapping. I knew that from the start...was just testing the tool.

So from this posters standpoint this tool is an epic fail and is doing more harm to consumer provider relationships than good.

JohnInSJ
Premium Member
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

JohnInSJ

Premium Member

breaking news... from the PAST!

We tell people to use shaperprobe all the time in the comcast forum, when they confuse speedburst for their actual speed.

It's quite useful. Comcast reliably cranks out your rated speed, in the absence of line issues.