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Comments on news posted 2011-09-01 18:36:24: According to the Wall Street Journal, the Communications Workers of America has started attacking Sprint for its opposition to the AT&T T-Mobile merger. ..

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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to CXMNYC

Re: Making unions illegal would solve many problems

said by CXMNYC:

I currently work a union job in the communications industry and me and my fellow union employees bust our asses!

If you are so confidant in your job performance then why not compete on an even playing field like all the other non union workers in this country? If every member of the union "busted his ass" each day then why are they paid far more than the private sector while working less hours? If every union member really was a hard working individual why does the union insist on mafia like tactics that allow bums to do nothing for hours each day while commanding above market rate wages? Dont take what I am saying as a personal attack against you, as I am sure there are hard workers in the union. However, the fact that its virtually impossible to fire a union worker who sleeps on the job, screws around, and basically does nothing should tell you something is wrong.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to TheRogueX

said by TheRogueX:

Make it easier for hard working Americans to be fired and laid-off at the whim of big business!

Absolutely. What makes you so special that you should have a guaranteed job for life?? Are you scared that if you had to work for a living you might get replaced by someone more qualified who is willing to work for less? The great thing about non union jobs is that everyone is 'at will'. This means if you dont pull your weight each day you will get fired. I know the concept of keeping your job based on performance might be shocking, but welcome to the (non union) reality of the world.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to ITALIAN926

said by ITALIAN926:

Yea, tell me the tech that installed your FiOS DIDNT WORK that day... sigh

Sure he worked that day, and he also gave me an install window of 9am to 6pm. Classic union garbage as it allows the people to do one or two jobs and then sleep in their van the rest of the day. The biggest difference between union and private sector is that with the private sector there is an expectation of performance. I work in the telecom industry, and all of our non union employees are prompt and show up at a very specific time. If they are running late due to a previous job then they (I hope you are sitting down for this one) actually call and let us know!
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
reply to wifi4milez

I am confident in my job performance. Compete on a level playing field? With a 100 million dollar market capitalization corporation. Hmmmm, law gives us the right to bargain collectively, we can get a much better deal collectively than we can as individuals. Why would I or anyone take less wages and benefits to do the same job? I don't understand all those rugged individualists who are willing to work for less and have their children covered by inferior medical plans just to avoid having to rely on a union for bargaining. Large corporations have armys of lawyers and accountants on their side, union helps an individual level the playing field with their much more powerful employer. My dues are money well spent. Some of my coworkers are terrible employees, some are great employees, most are good employees just like non union workers. I think non union employees would greatly benefit from collective bargaining. I wish more hard working Americans had excellent quality healthcare benefits and better pay. It would make the middle class and the nation stronger. I believe you are a hard working, conscientious, knowledgeable employee, I wish you had better wages and benefits. So long as the company you work for is profitable they should take good finacial care of their employees. Lord know my company would NOT pass on any savings they get from paying me less, just a larger profit margin.


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
reply to Deval6

Not sure what is being handed to an American union worker on a platter? Everything a union worker has(wages, benefits, job security) was earned. Ever spend weeks or months on strike with no pay or benefits without any idea how long before you'll be back at work? It isn't easy. It requires fortitude and determination, and the belief that by witholding your hard work the corporation you work for will realize how necessary your skill and hard work are to their profitability. If you aren't earning your keep they'll replace you en mass. That is earning your opportunities, all in, better wages and benefits or no job at all. My union has struck for 7 months, 4 1/2 months and several strikes of multiple weeks duration to get the wages and benefits we currently enjoy. Anyone who has gone through these strikes can attest to how we earned our opportunities.


chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA
reply to CXMNYC

said by CXMNYC:

I am confident in my job performance. Compete on a level playing field?

I agree with you, but some people are just trolls and there is a lot of them in this forum lol.

Competition force is better than union collective bargaining but in this economy, with big corporations and biased laws favoring just corporation - we would stand no chance. And what stops from everybody hiring 9 year old in coal factory if there were no laws against it? Cheaper labor = more profit for company.

I also wanted to mention, there are some firms in the U.S that don't have union here in the U.S but they have in other countries (due to more strict labor laws).

Many people are also hypocrities. Take a look for example at Republicans who oppose every social benefit program, no matter how limited.

WHy their kids are so lucky to get private great school in High school, then get into more better prestigious top colleges at which they spend some time fraternizing and partying, not just studying. At the end they get good paying job at good firm through "connections" from their dads. Not too mention if they studied really well in college, they most likely got what they need to succeed in their job and move in ranks. Look, their parents worked hard or whatever to get they are, and kids got handed it out to them. Later those kids, the same people as adults vow against anything that might be handed to their less fortunate peers from taxes. Forgetting they got them from their rich parents who got tax breaks, that cost middle and lower class more money in taxes. Some of them struggle in life everyday, just trying to pay for living expenses.

Now compare this to everyday lower middle-class folks, who had to go to public school learning less, went to public community college and very likely transferred later to public university or went to private university on student loans and then just somewhere landed job with starting salary that covers only basic needs and "just fine" standard of living. And what they got from education is hit/miss whether it will be useful for their jobs.

Now worse, compare this to minorities (black) and type of schools they get into and what they get from those schools. Many of them dont' graduate, struggles to find jobs and to make money get involved in gangs and drugs that gets them in trouble with law and jail. We have the largest prison system in the U.S and this cost taxpayer's money a lot.

I tell you, this is inequality to resources is in purpose. Some people just want to have everything, disregarding the effects in has on their environment. Just like with factories and pollutions, except this time is human. We are going toward trend, what used to be in middle ages in Europe where most people lived in master's house and got paid for little. This all ended with black death, that wiped 3/4 population leaving less people and less labor force. This in turn increased average standard of living and created middle class in reinassance. Because then it left all employers to find scarce source for which they had to compete.

Notice we are going in the same trend in the U.S what was before outbreak. We got hit hard with economic recession in 2008 that forced to teach many people to go easier with borrowing and reckless spending. I expect that something else will come big in future to remind us. Its prophecy. There is cause and effect. They are always together.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to CXMNYC

said by CXMNYC:

Everything a union worker has(wages, benefits, job security) was earned.

HA! Earned? Blackmailing your employer by threatening to disrupt their operations is hardly "earned". Try working hard and actually earning promotions and pay raises and then get back to me.

said by CXMNYC:

Ever spend weeks or months on strike with no pay or benefits without any idea how long before you'll be back at work?

Nope, never. The reason is because if I did I would lose my job. Its amazing how that works; people work harder and attempt to better themselves so they can keep their jobs. Take that fear away and you get a society of entitlement bums.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to Deval6

said by Deval6:

correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the whole point of the American Dream to work hard and earn your keep? To work for opportunities, not have them handed to you on a platter?

That analysis is spot on. What keeps me motivated at work is knowing that if I am not doing a good job I will be replaced. Unions remove that factor by allowing lazy and incompetent members to hide behind policies and the thugs that enforce them.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to CXMNYC

said by CXMNYC:

I am confident in my job performance. Compete on a level playing field? With a 100 million dollar market capitalization corporation.

That statement right there just shows how crooked the unions are. You arent competing against your employer; what should be happening is that you are competing against all the other qualified people in your area for a given job. That way only the best, most qualified people are hired. Instead, when the union has the local labor market (for a specific field) locked down all you get complacency and 'bare minimum' performance. Cozy up to your local union rep and you have a safe, high paying job for life no matter how poor your actually performance. Funny how it's basically the same thing as being a "made" guy in the mob....
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
reply to wifi4milez

You would lose your job if you struck because in spite of your fervent belief that your hard work and dedication keep you employed, truth is you are easily replaced. Blackmailing my employer? Me and my fellow union workers simply withhold our labor from the company, demonstrating to the corporation how valuable our labor is. If we weren't skilled, hard working and reliable the corporation would replace us en mass, but they don't because we are that skilled, hard working and reliable. Think about it; if we're a bunch off lazy and incompetent slobs why when we strike does,t the corporation simply replace us? There is no law prohibiting this from the company. You seem bitter that others have the fortitude, courage and determination to prove to their employer just have valuable they are. As you've admitted you would be fired because you are not so skilled or hard working that your employer could and would fire you for being uppity enough to want better wages, benefits or working conditions. I wish you good fortune and prosperity.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

said by CXMNYC:

You would lose your job if you struck because in spite of your fervent belief that your hard work and dedication keep you employed, truth is you are easily replaced.

Amazing! Thats the first time you have been right in this whole discussion. Yes, of course I am easily replaceable and I would lose my job if I didnt show up. Thats the whole point, I work hard (and show up to work) so I can remain employed. A side effect of this is that I excel at my job, and I have received numerous promotions and pay raises due to my hard work.

said by CXMNYC:

If we weren't skilled, hard working and reliable the corporation would replace us en mass, but they don't because we are that skilled, hard working and reliable. Think about it; if we're a bunch off lazy and incompetent slobs why when we strike does,t the corporation simply replace us?

You are either highly delusional or simply misinformed. The reason your company cant replace you is because of the draconian contracts the union forced your employer to sign.

said by CXMNYC:

There is no law prohibiting this from the company.

You obviously have no idea how the legal system in the United States works. By law your company must abide by the contract(s) it has in place. In most cases the union has put specific provisions in place that prohibit the hiring of non union employees for specific jobs. In addition, they strong arm any potential employees to join the union and pay fees, effectively eliminating any possible alternate labor force in the local market.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
reply to wifi4milez

I have already competed with all the qualified people in my area for the job...guess what? I got the job!!! Now that I have beaten out all the other applicants the job is mine. Now when it comes to compensation(wages and benefits) I compete with my employer. Being more qualified then the other applicants(almost 60 people apply for every 1 hired) I expect a certain level of compensation from my employer. My employer would like to pay me minimum wage with no benefits. Collectively with the other most qualified candidates who where hired we bargain for considerably better than minimum wage and get decent benefits. Sorry but I "won" the competition with the other qualified people when my corporation hired me after extensive testing of my skills, interviews, medical evaluation and a drug screening.


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
reply to wifi4milez

Speaking of no idea about how the law works and being delusional. Contracts are for a finite period of time. Usually in my industry 3 years. The union con not strike while the contract is in effect. When the contract expires we can strike. The corporation can fire us all once the contract has expired! When we go on strike, the corporation is leagally allowed to fire us all! They don't because we are somewhat me skilled and valuable then misinformed people are lead to believe. Look it up. I speak the truth. I can be fired once my unions contract expires.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

said by CXMNYC:

The union con not strike while the contract is in effect.

Nonsense! Unions have gone on strike many times while under contract. In addition some federal employees who are in the union are prohibited by law from going on strike (ever!) yet they still do. Please learn more about the topic before you attempt to defend your position.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY

The last federal employees to go on strike who were prohibited from going on strike were the air traffic controlers and they were all fired, and rightly so. The weren't allowed to strike by law, they struck and got fired. My union cannot go on strike while our contract is in force. Only when it expires can we "legally" strike. We've never illegally struck. When the contract expires we CAN ALL BE FIRED! Yet we aren't. Imagine that? Maybe we are not all a bunch of lazy boobs and our company needs our skills, knowledge and dedication? They could replace us all at once. This I know to be true and factual beyond a doubt. I know your worldview can not comprehend that a group of union workers is so vital to a business that the wouldn't fire them all given the chance, but every 3 years they have that chance and we're still here. Go figure?



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to CXMNYC

said by CXMNYC:

I have already competed with all the qualified people in my area for the job...guess what? I got the job!!! Now that I have beaten out all the other applicants the job is mine. Now when it comes to compensation(wages and benefits) I compete with my employer. Being more qualified then the other applicants(almost 60 people apply for every 1 hired) I expect a certain level of compensation from my employer. My employer would like to pay me minimum wage with no benefits. Collectively with the other most qualified candidates who where hired we bargain for considerably better than minimum wage and get decent benefits. Sorry but I "won" the competition with the other qualified people when my corporation hired me after extensive testing of my skills, interviews, medical evaluation and a drug screening.

Wrong. You got the job because (by law) your employer was required to hire you. Due to the fact that non union employees were exempt from the hiring process means you are not the most qualified person for the job. I dont doubt you were the most qualified person from the limited, union represented pool, however that is not an accurate sample of the total workforce.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY

Until I was hired I wasn't in the union!! Seriously you have no clue what you are talking about. I joined the union after I got the job. So did everyone of the 35000 people I work with in this corporation and union.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to CXMNYC

said by CXMNYC:

The last federal employees to go on strike who were prohibited from going on strike were the air traffic controlers

Yawn, wrong again. Some unions negotiate (or include) what is known as a "no strike" clause in their agreements while others do not. In some other cases local or federal judges will weigh in during a strike and declare the union members actions illegal.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to CXMNYC

said by CXMNYC:

Until I was hired I wasn't in the union!!

Wow, what an amazing revelation. So you are telling me you werent born a fully fledged union member?

Obviously everyone in the union joined at some point. You took a job that required union membership, and thus you became one. What point are you trying to make?

CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
reply to wifi4milez

Really? What federal employees union that is legally barred from striking has gone on strike since PATCO? PAtCO by the way is the air traffic controlers union, or was.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

said by CXMNYC:

Really? What federal employees union that is legally barred from striking has gone on strike since PATCO? PAtCO by the way is the air traffic controlers union, or was.

Other non federal unions have been legally barred from striking since the air traffic controller scandal and have still done so. Regardless of whether the union is federal or not, it can be (depending on the contract) illegal to strike. Therefore, your argument that unions can not strike when a contract is in place is balderdash.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
reply to wifi4milez

The point I made was to refute your mistaken belief that the job I competed for was simply a competition among union members. You seemed to believe that all other applicants couldn't have that job. The competion was open to all. Only after you "won" the job did union membersship become possible. Which puts your contention that somehow I was competing in a pool of only union workers for this job to rest, where it belongs.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

said by CXMNYC:

The point I made was to refute your mistaken belief that the job I competed for was simply a competition among union members.

I am really mistaken? Did you have the option of keeping your current position and not joining the union? If so you are very unique, as most union dominated positions require membership as part of the job.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
reply to wifi4milez

My union can not strike while contract is in place. Beyond that our contract has expired 6 times over the last 15 years. Every time it expires we can all be fired, and yet we are still here. We are valuable enough where our corporation negociates with us and keeps signing new contracts. You unfortunately are not that valuable to your employer and must contiuosly hope to curry favor with your corporate master to keep your job. I feel for you bro!


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
reply to wifi4milez

I did not and do not have to belong to the union to get or keep my job. I would save about 75 percent on dues by not joining. The 25 percent that goes toward collective bargaining would have to be paid, as I would get the same contract as the union members get.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to CXMNYC

said by CXMNYC:

My union can not strike while contract is in place.

Right, but there have been numerous instances where unions who are not supposed to strike do.

said by CXMNYC:

You unfortunately are not that valuable to your employer and must contiuosly hope to curry favor with your corporate master to keep your job. I feel for you bro!

Thanks! To be honest however, I really dont mind earning my keep each and every day. Sure, it would be far easier to know that no matter what I did I couldnt be fired but then I wouldnt be where I am today.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY

Me and my coworkers can be fired, same as you. I have had coworkers fired for cause, it happens. Excessive abcense, tardiness, insubordination, thft, violence, sleeping on the job. It happens here and everywhere. People get fired for doing stupid things all the time. Where I work its no different. We all earn our keep everyday. That is the fact. Bad employees with or without a union get fired. Sometimes bad employees get over and stay employeed, with or witout a union. I am knowledgeable, skilled and hard working, I belong to a union. My fellow union members run the gamut from great employees to shitty employees. Most are somewhere in between. Our union membership didn't make us good or bad employees, our individual work ethic and values made us what we are. Same as non union, just we realize collectively we will get a better deal from our souless corporation than we could as individuals.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

said by CXMNYC:

I am knowledgeable, skilled and hard working

I never said you (individually) were not, so please dont mistake my argument with a personal attack. For all I know you are the most hard working person on earth, and I commend you for all your achievements. However, I correctly pointed out how unions foster laziness and incompetence at wages that are higher than what is charged in the private sector.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY

I understand the point your making. However, I work in the private sector, I am not a government employee. I think you meant in an non union employment situation. My point, and it is anecdotal(just what I've experienced personally) is that the union workers around me are mostly all hard working and dedicated, some are lazy slobs. The lazy slobs, would be lazy slobs wherever they worked, union or non union. Their work ethics where formed long before the got a union job. I've had plenty of non union jobs through the years and I've encountered just as many lazy and careless workers there. It is easier to fire non union workers who suck, but I've seen plenty of union workers who suck get fired. I've also seen good workers in non union jobs get fired because they didn't kiss a managers ass enough. If you're a good employee your job shouldn't be at the whim of someone because they don't like your personality. You should be judged on your value as an employee. Being part of 35000 employees I know if I were fired my company wouldn't skip a beat, despite my belief that I'm an excellent employee. My unions value to me is that I know I will only be fired for a just cause. Union employees have a sense that we will not be fired over a trivial matter like a personality conflict with a foreman.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

said by CXMNYC:

I think you meant in an non union employment situation.

Yes I did, thank you for catching that as I was using the wrong term.