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Comments on news posted 2011-09-27 18:45:02: We've often discussed how with the exception of several major cities like New York, Washington DC and Philadephia (and any other areas where pre-existing franchise obligations are being finished), Verizon's FiOS expansion is essentially over. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

really?

Sure, we all want fiber and we want it now...

But... really?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: really?

Play the race card. It always gets attention.

Mostly the wrong kind, however.... rightly so.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2

Re: really?

I am OUT-RAGED!

/Al Sharpton off

Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3

2 recommendations

I Wasn't Aware...

...that Buffalo, New York was a race. Good to know!
en103

join:2011-05-02
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 recommendation

Population gap/density ?

They're performing a profit margin based on city at a large basis vs. suburb / urban. As far as these cities go - its all over the map.

The main thing that I see in NYC and Philadelphia is population (direct in the city limit) in the +1 million mark.

mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1

1 recommendation

I think it's been fairly well proven

that the only color Verizon pays any attention to is 'green'... and lots of it--the sooner the better; and if it ain't soon enough, well... you're stuck where you are with what you've got.
--
"Sorry for not responding to your post, but either I haven't seen it yet, or what you said was so devoid of substance that I found it utterly uninteresting."
davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3

Change the state laws to allow public utility fiber builds.

Change federal, state, and local laws that make it very difficult for public utilities or municipalities to do their own FTTH builds. Then Buffalo and other cities could build their own networks. The private sector is concerned only with short term profits. The public sector needs to be free to take care of the entire public's basic infrastructure needs.
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Re: Change the state laws to allow public utility fiber builds.

said by davidhoffman:

Then Buffalo and other cities could build their own networks.

With what money? They can't even keep the potholes patched in Buffalo or control their crime problem. Where do you suppose the money for a city wide fiber build is going to come from?
davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3

2 recommendations

Re: Change the state laws to allow public utility fiber builds.

I advocate mainly for electric company FTTH builds like EPB Fiber »epbfi.com/ in Chattanooga, TN, LUS Fiber »lusfiber.com/ in Lafayette, LA, Greelight »www.greenlightnc.com/ in Wilson, NC, and CDE Lightband »www.clarksvillede.com/HighSpeedInternet.asp in Clarksville, TN. They can use electric utility rights of way to go FTTH by basing the fiber on smart grid present and future uses.

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

1 recommendation

Re: Change the state laws to allow public utility fiber builds.

Contrary to the City of Chattanooga's PR department EPB and VW are not the saviors of Chattanooga. They have spent 300+ million dollars on trying to put large and small businesses out of businesses.

Muni projects should be treated just like public roads. ANYONE who wants to buy access to the network should be allowed to do so. There are several small providers in Chattanooga that have made attempts to buy retail services from EPB and they have flat out refused to sell them service because they offer similar services to EPB.

I have a HUGE problem with any public agency that is out to destroy private businesses. Fair and friendly competition is fine but underhanded back room deals are not.
davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3

1 recommendation

Re: Change the state laws to allow public utility fiber builds.

Interesting. I would like to research these small providers. Would you state who they are? I would be interested in why the decision would be made to cause trouble for private providers potentially capable of offering symmetrical data rates at or above 10Mbps to everyone in Chattanooga, TN. If that was done, than maybe EPB Fiber is a mistaken expenditure.

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Re: Change the state laws to allow public utility fiber builds.

There are none anymore that can do residential. They were all forced out of the residential business because you can't compete with someone who gets 300+ million dollars of grant and bond money.

Try and string fiber on any pole owned by the city. It's one delay after another that takes months and months to get done.
davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3

Re: Change the state laws to allow public utility fiber builds.

Yes, Google pointed that out recently as one reason why they went with Kansas City, Kansas. Very little of that excessive pole guarding behavior. I think that was one thing Kansas City, Missouri changed after they found out they had lost. They significantly reduced the pole guarding restrictions, access fees, paperwork, etc. The Google Gigabit build could nudge other cities and power companies to change their behavior in this area.

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Re: Change the state laws to allow public utility fiber builds.

It won't happen when the Power company and the phone company are one in the same.

garynyny

@speakeasy.net

FIOS is in Buffalo

FIOS is not deployed EVERYWHERE in Buffalo but it is there. It is in my Sister's neighborhood. I think the speed of the deployment has slowed but I was there last week asking if they were continuing deployment and he said that he saw Verizon still stringing fiber on the poles.

rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105

Re: FIOS is in Buffalo

Really? I hadn't heard of any at all. Where?

But it's certainly here in my part of Cheektowaga. But it's Inet and phone only; no TV, at least not yet.

Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:24

Re: FIOS is in Buffalo

Come out my way and Verizon is stringing some cabling up on the poles, too. It's been taking it's time for sure, but it is coming from the looks of things.
mathfaster

join:2005-09-23
Upland, CA

HOA's are discriminated against as well

Verizon would only install FIOS in our HOA IF the HOA would have everyone sign up for FIOS and the HOA did the billing. Fat chance of that ever happening. FIOS is elsewhere in the suburb I live in.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

Re: HOA's are discriminated against as well

said by mathfaster:

Verizon would only install FIOS in our HOA IF the HOA would have everyone sign up for FIOS and the HOA did the billing. Fat chance of that ever happening. FIOS is elsewhere in the suburb I live in.

That is what you get for being in an HOA.
Many HOAs resell cable/internet so they can make money off the top. They will force all residents to pay for the cable/internet in their HOA fees every month. This way they get one large commercial account for the whole HOA and pocket the difference of the discount.

I can tell you that you have HOA rules governing that everyone must sign up to get Verizon. Those are not Verizons rules, they would gladly move in it weren't for your crappy HOA trying to make money off the top.

Dont let your HOA lie to you and blame verizon.
mathfaster

join:2005-09-23
Upland, CA

1 edit

Re: HOA's are discriminated against as well

.....
mathfaster

join:2005-09-23
Upland, CA
said by Oh_No:

said by mathfaster:

Verizon would only install FIOS in our HOA IF the HOA would have everyone sign up for FIOS and the HOA did the billing. Fat chance of that ever happening. FIOS is elsewhere in the suburb I live in.

That is what you get for being in an HOA.
Many HOAs resell cable/internet so they can make money off the top. They will force all residents to pay for the cable/internet in their HOA fees every month. This way they get one large commercial account for the whole HOA and pocket the difference of the discount.

I can tell you that you have HOA rules governing that everyone must sign up to get Verizon. Those are not Verizons rules, they would gladly move in it weren't for your crappy HOA trying to make money off the top.

Dont let your HOA lie to you and blame verizon.

I used to be on the board of my HOA. There are no rules requiring anyone to have to signup for any cable, FIOS, etc. Yes, this was Verizon telling our HOA to shove it unless they got what they wanted. This HOA has been in existence for over 20 years. This is a single family home HOA not a condo or townhouse HOA.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

Re: HOA's are discriminated against as well

said by mathfaster:

said by Oh_No:

said by mathfaster:

Verizon would only install FIOS in our HOA IF the HOA would have everyone sign up for FIOS and the HOA did the billing. Fat chance of that ever happening. FIOS is elsewhere in the suburb I live in.

That is what you get for being in an HOA.
Many HOAs resell cable/internet so they can make money off the top. They will force all residents to pay for the cable/internet in their HOA fees every month. This way they get one large commercial account for the whole HOA and pocket the difference of the discount.
I can tell you that you have HOA rules governing that everyone must sign up to get Verizon. Those are not Verizons rules, they would gladly move in it weren't for your crappy HOA trying to make money off the top.

Dont let your HOA lie to you and blame verizon.

I used to be on the board of my HOA. There are no rules requiring anyone to have to signup for any cable, FIOS, etc. Yes, this was Verizon telling our HOA to shove it unless they got what they wanted. This HOA has been in existence for over 20 years. This is a single family home HOA not a condo or townhouse HOA.

That is a lie.
Verizon will wire HOA subdivisions the same as any other subdivision unless the HOA has rules that requires customers buy cable/internet through the HOA.
There are HOAs without crazy rules and those are treated like non HOA properties.

Verizon does not force HOAs to get a commercial account, they do not force HOAs to handle the billing as that means less money for Verizon as the HOA cuts into their profit margins.
The only time verizon would force stipulations is for apartment complexes/condos that are not wired correctly thus are very expensive to hook up.
Bundling and forcing the residents to buy cable/internet is for the benefit of the HOA and the HOA board probably get free cable and internet out of the deal.

Recently looking for housing, there are a lot of bad HOAs out there that force you to buy cable/internet in your monthly HOA fees. There are a lot of HOAs that are very weak with no dues, those are the best as they are created just to ensure people mow their lawns and the houses meet certain style requirements when built. They are silent unless someone is letting their house fall apart. Those HOAs do not force you to buy cable/internet through them.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
A) That should be illegal to bundle and limit consumer choice, but also, the HOA is so stupid. Verizon FIOS is far superior to cable.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: HOA's are discriminated against as well

said by BiggA:

A) That should be illegal to bundle and limit consumer choice, but also, the HOA is so stupid. Verizon FIOS is far superior to cable.

Absolutely not.

People should remain free to agree to group purchasing arrangements, as one might do for an exclusive MDU installation for an apartment building or condo. In many cases, it is the only way you're going to get FTTH, and you typically achieve a 50% discount over retail pay-tv prices.

If you don't want to subject to the restrictions of an HOA, or the apartment management's chosen broadband service, don't buy or rent in those buildings.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: HOA's are discriminated against as well

I suppose the "don't buy or rent" argument is somewhat valid, although you can argue that the cable or internet service is not usually a deciding factor, when there are many others. The HOA shouldn't be able to bargain with one company, as that effectively limits other companies from providing programming to those residents. It gets a little more fuzzy when you start talking about retirement communities, college dorms, and the like, since they are unified, managed facilities.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: HOA's are discriminated against as well

said by BiggA:

I suppose the "don't buy or rent" argument is somewhat valid, although you can argue that the cable or internet service is not usually a deciding factor, when there are many others. The HOA shouldn't be able to bargain with one company, as that effectively limits other companies from providing programming to those residents. It gets a little more fuzzy when you start talking about retirement communities, college dorms, and the like, since they are unified, managed facilities.

It might not be a deciding factor, but we seem to read about it here on a daily basis, that someone is unhappy with their rent/purchase commitment they made, expressing post-purchase blues over [lack of] broadband capability.

Caveat emptor. If you can't be bothered, when making what is typically your greatest financial commitment, to spend a few minutes of due diligence to verify your telecom/broadband/entertainment/utility/crime/schools/transit issues, then you get what you deserve.

Given the choice between living in an HOA community with feeble 1.5M DSL as your sole broadband option, or contracting to bring in 50mbps FTTH for a price that's less, per-unit, than the aforementioned DSL, but requires an exclusive commitment of 5 years, which would you pick? Likewise, would you rather pay $80/month for basic satellite service, or buy it as a group for $40/unit?
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: HOA's are discriminated against as well

Well, the counterargument to that is someone may have moved in five or ten years ago, and now they are stuck without good broadband, even though it had what was good braodband then when they moved in. Same argument for rural places that can't get anything other than Wildblue (although most can get AT&T or Verizon 3G now).

They shouldn't be doing exclusive agreements, since that limits the consumer's choice. In this case, there isn't an exclusive agreement, it just sounds like Verizon won't come in since the HOA is already bundling cable with the HOA fees, which would make it nearly impossible for Verizon to get many subs.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: HOA's are discriminated against as well

said by BiggA:

Well, the counterargument to that is someone may have moved in five or ten years ago, and now they are stuck without good broadband, even though it had what was good braodband then when they moved in. Same argument for rural places that can't get anything other than Wildblue (although most can get AT&T or Verizon 3G now).

They shouldn't be doing exclusive agreements, since that limits the consumer's choice. In this case, there isn't an exclusive agreement, it just sounds like Verizon won't come in since the HOA is already bundling cable with the HOA fees, which would make it nearly impossible for Verizon to get many subs.

The problem with your counterargument is you likely would strand those customers with no broadband during those previous five or ten years, and they'd lose their group discount. You can't have it both ways.

You can't expect a broadband firm to undertake the capital expense to deploy to your building where no service exists, without some form of commitment to mitigate their risk.

The person who moved in 5-10 years ago still has the choice to move, or WAIT for the agreement to expire. (We moved our residence, and our offices, at great tremendous phenomenal expense, years ago, because certain other "deciding factors" mattered most. In fact, we still suffer under a pay-tv monopoly as a result, and our DSL choices would not impress.)
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: HOA's are discriminated against as well

They would just do it like regular single-family residences, where you can get cable or DSL. The cable and phone lines have been around for a while.

Satellite is the tricky part, since if the HOA owns the outside of the building, you might not be able to mount a dish. Of course, if the customer owns the outside of the building, they are protected by OTARD, which is one of the few laws I've ever read that is actually extremely clear and protects the consumer.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: HOA's are discriminated against as well

Sorry, but that's why you buy a single-family residence, hopefully not in an HOA. (One of our local SFR HOAs exists to make sure you tend your garden ... they'll seed, water and mow your lawn if you don't!!)

Those who buy into a condo are deliberately entering into a communal arrangement, subjecting themselves to the governance of the condo board, in order to derive the common benefits; those who rent an apartment entrust the management to oversee certain common facilities.

I'm not a fan of communal / group arrangements, and I hope to exit the planet without ever residing in a condo. But if I did, I would not act surprised when the condo board created significant restrictions "for my benefit". I'd much rather rent - a single landlord is much easier to handle; they want your business, and aim to please.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
No problem with my HOA here. VZ FiOS has been treating me well for a year now.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

2 edits

2 recommendations

Racism??? LOL

Only a retard would call it racism.
Economic discrimination? Of course there is economic discrimination.

Verizon is going to pick the most profitable market for them.
High population, more current internet customers, higher incomes (more customer potential), current area has a good on time payment rate, etc.

It is only coincidence that lower profitable areas have a higher black population. Being black does not make you less profitable and it is not verizons fault that coincidently the lower profit areas have a higher black (or whatever group) population.

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Racism??? LOL

said by Oh_No:

Only a retard would call it racism.
Economic discrimination? Of course there is economic discrimination.

The cry of racism is just a way for an unhappy group to leverage press coverage and try to overturn a decision they don't like by appealing to current anti-discrimination laws. But as you say, this is economic redlining and nothing else.
--
»www.rickperry.org/

Harddrive
Proud American and Infidel since 1968.
Premium
join:2000-09-20
DFW
kudos:2

Maybe if there was some kickback...

You know, like the one Rhode Island did. They gave Verizon what they wanted several years ago (State-wide franchise, etc). So in turn, Verizon has installed FiOS in pretty much all of Rhode Island as well as putting the FiOS call center in Providence, Rhode Island. Massachusetts was very upset at this because Verizon played Rhode Island and Massachusetts against each other for the call center.
--
When I press '1 for English' that means I want to talk to someone that speaks English!

birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9

1 recommendation

Re: Maybe if there was some kickback...

said by Harddrive:

(State-wide franchise, etc). So in turn, Verizon has installed FiOS in pretty much all of Rhode Island as well as putting the FiOS call center in Providence, Rhode Island.

State-wide franchise wasn't too difficult to get through. Only 38 municipal entities to make promises to.

State-wide installed base, though. Definitely not. Fiber is installed in denser areas, not so much in rural areas. South County is still waiting. Plus, I drive by quite a few intersections in my area where the orange duct is buried and comes up near overhead fiber. But they're not hooked up. I've been connected for 5 years. And these are not gated communities or HOAs.

Harddrive
Proud American and Infidel since 1968.
Premium
join:2000-09-20
DFW
kudos:2

Re: Maybe if there was some kickback...

I was a member of IBEW 2323 when I worked for Avaya. It was the same Union that Verizon techs worked for. The stories I heard... Nothing illegal but the Union sure bends for whatever way helps them the most.
Verizon pretty much wired up the State where they want it. So what do they do with all the techs they hired to wire up the State? Can you say lay-off?
--
When I press '1 for English' that means I want to talk to someone that speaks English!

rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105

A semi-easy solution: move

I did. I used to live on the border of Buffalo and West Seneca...just inside Buffalo. When I decided to pull the trigger on buying real estate, the top tie breaker was, FiOS available immediately? And I moved to where it was immediately available. Besides, you'd do very well moving anyway. My car insurance went down (I think) $75/yr., no more line item garbage pickup tax...probably other goodies I can't recall at the moment, but those are the two off the top of my head. I also hear West Seneca is nice, and they have oodles of FiOS.

I feel sorry in that respect for people who took jobs where Buffalo residency is a job requirement. Sorry, but sucks to be you.

If it weren't so far away, I'd heavily consider moving to KC so I can feel some of that Gbps love. What the heck...pretty much can't hurt, as it's bound to have more tech jobs available than around here.

Although I hated it where I was w/r/t (lack of good) Internet connectivity (wished they'd have offered FiOS), I don't fault them at all for choosing the areas where they'll recoup their investments faster (i.e., areas where generally higher income people live, therefore higher subscription percentage). I'm really miffed at people who think they're some sort of charity, that they ought to build out everywhere, just because they can (remember, can != should).

As for "racist"...I was not aware that the black folks (or anyone else for that matter) on my street were refused service. Just sayin'...
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules.

Jeopardy! replies and randomcaps REALLY suck!
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

1 recommendation

Ridiculous

Verizon is just installing where it will make money. Poor areas that happen to be mostly black/latino likely won't subscribe to FIOS at as great a rate as richer, whiter suburbs. It has nothing to do with race per se, it's all about economics.

•••••••
PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms

Tanks for nuttin, Verizon!

Verizon was given a statewide FiOS franchise in New Jersey yet many areas were untouched.

In Marlboro (in Monmouth County) a prosperous community, half of the township was wired for FiOS and the other half not....

In this case, I don't think that there was any racism, as there are relatively few minorities in any event. But newer homes (hence more expensive homes) seemed to be favored.

I have to give thanks to Cablevision (Optimum) for providing Internet service to ALL its service area! Otherwise I would not be here....

------------------------------------------

It seems horribly inefficient for Verizon to send mailers to every house (including mine) advertising a FiOS service that is NOT available. Likewise for massive TV advertising budgets when half the viewers can't get FiOS!

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Verizon is RACIST against...

Oklahoma! Where's our FIOS!

Don't bypass Oklahoma on racial grounds!!!

tom thomas

join:2010-11-04

wonder if they target lighter users oNLY?

one thing that would be very interesting is if they intentionally do not offer service to people they believe would quickly overwhelm the network because they are known as heavy video streamers, etc.

it would actually make business sense for Verizon to target people willing to pay extra for higher speeds but unlikely to actually use that speed to increase their total traffic.

Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Downers Grove, IL
kudos:2

1 recommendation

3-0!

What more do you want Verizon!?!
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Similar charge being leveled in Baltimore, MD

Instead of racism, they use the term red-lining.

Baltimore has only itself to blame. When it was United Cable, people used to rip off the cable company all the time with illegal taps and stolen cable boxes. It got so bad that, at one time, no one could get hooked up because so many cable boxes were stolen that they had to wait a month for another tractor trailer load to come in.

Screw Baltimore City.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

VZ not focused on FIOS

Verizon is more focused on wireless than wireline. Except for NYC and some loose ends in it's southern footprint-- VZ is not doing any more deployments for 2011. VZ is more focued on maintaining a win-win market position when it comes to AT&T merging or not...

by win-win I mean: the merger gives us the right to price gouge, OR we win because one or more of VZ's competitors will be significantly damaged by failure of the merger

It's the tricky coin toss idea: heads I win, tails you lose.
Nevertheless, they're biding their time until next year when they'll have to cut the prices to compete where cablevision raised broadband speeds of many consumers in NY Metro (but not universally, unless you complain)..
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Pre-existing franchise obligations

The key phrase is "with the exception of several major cities like New York, Washington DC and Philadelphia (and any other areas where pre-existing franchise obligations are being finished), Verizon's FiOS expansion is essentially over." Some of these places that are now complaining had their chance to negotiate a TV franchise with Verizon and failed to do so. The economy turned bad and Verizon put FiOS expansion on the back burner. The local politicians have no one but themselves to blame.

David
I start new work on
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:101
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·magicjack.com
·Google Voice

Keep in mind this is my sister's experience...

My sister lived in buffalo, ny. That being said the internet sucks up there and she is (or was) convinced it has nothing to do with the providers.

She moved back cause (and I get this from her mind you..)

"Buffalo just sucks"

Again I can only go by what I am being told. As a remote admin of her machines I didn't think it was too bad but she always complained about roadrunner cable all the time.
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!
Happydude32
Premium
join:2005-07-16
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Re: Keep in mind this is my sister's experience...

I live about a half an hour east of Buffalo in the small rural town of Marilla. No complaints about Road Runner from me.

Taken moments ago:



I don't ever see Verizon offering Fios in my area, nor do I care, I have no desire for it. It's completely overrated and I couldnt be less impressed with their lackluster service. 135Mb downstream is great, but call me when I can actually take advantage of it, their TV service sucks, it lacks a lot of HD channels, the boxes feature nonsense like widgets for Facebook, and their phone service, well it's phone service. Verizon is a terrible company and I was so happy to sever all ties with them two years ago when after over 20 years with NYNEX/Bell Atlantic/Verizon, Time Warner finally started offering digital phone in my town. I just wish I could have taken care on canceling Verizon my self . I would have used every single profane word around and even would create a few new ones if I had the opportunity to speak to a Verizon rep. As much as I hate Apple, I dont think I can put into words how much I true revulsion I have for both Verizon and their half owned sister company Verizon Wireless.
--
Chuck Norris was once asked why he doesn’t use an iPhone, he responded, “Same reason I don’t use tampons.”
AT&T - America's Worst 3G Network

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

moving on down..

you could always move on down closer to NYC.. they wired western NY areas from Rochester to Poughkeepsie
bfloscott1

join:2004-08-19
Buffalo, NY

Re: moving on down..

Do you have any concept of geography? Rochester isn't even a Verizon territory....it's Frontier. Check your facts.