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Comments on news posted 2011-12-09 12:35:40: Adding yet another wrinkle to AT&T's already troubled T-Mobile takeover bid, the Department of Justice today informed a Judge the agency wanted to postpone the trial. ..


IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

3 recommendations

Should have sent more cupcakes to the FCC...

Should have sent more cupcakes to the FCC...

AT&T lost a lot of goodwill and capital in this town.

Completely tone-deaf campaigning by AT&T to get this merger done... not to mention the billions of dollars that went flying out the window.

What a screwup....
--
"We're going to start at one end of (Fallujah), and we're not going to stop until we get to the other. If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."
Lt. Col. Pete Newell: 1st Inf. US Army

JasonOD

@comcast.net

Finally.......

Trying to get this turkey through was just way too expensive for many big T stockholders tastes and really took their eye off the ball of their competitor's movements. Now they now find themselves behind both sprint (clearwire deal) and Verizon (cable frequency holdings purchase) in the wireless bandwidth game.

exocet_cm
Free at last, free at last
Premium
join:2003-03-23
kudos:3

AT&T told no?

No way. THIS is news!

EliteData
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Long Island,
kudos:7

Greed

dont blame at&t as a whole for the lies, blame the stockholders.
greed, working at its best for you and me.

JasonOD

@comcast.net

Re: Greed

Hey don't blame stockholders. The exec's and board had some of us fooled, but it became very clear (mostly through the media) that the costs of the effort and massive lobbying checks being written were negating any real value of pursuing the purchase.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Greed

said by JasonOD :

Hey don't blame stockholders.

I do. WAY too mnay times stockholder looking for a quick buck instead of long term gains (like the way it USED to be ) fuck things up. Quit being in such a hurry to make a trillion $$$ think BIG PICTURE and long term. Are you going to die tomorrow? Nope. And if you are you don't need the money you will be dead. Even if you're 50 you still got 16 years until retirement. What is the fucking hurry?

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

Re: Greed

BF69, Piss Off, not all stock holders are like that, the oes you speak of are the large investment banks and hedge funds that hold T stock in their portfollios that cause this garbage, while those of us that have it in our 401Ks are in for long term.

EliteData
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Long Island,
kudos:7

Re: Greed

said by OSUGoose:

BF69, Piss Off, not all stock holders are like that, the ones you speak of are the large investment banks and hedge funds that hold T stock in their portfolios that cause this garbage, while those of us that have it in our 401Ks are in for long term.

your point is exactly what i meant.
the majority of the stock holders is what you outlined in your comment.
its another reason why this country is going down hill... fast.
--
Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com
PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

Re: Greed

I dont consider Instutional Holders to be real stockholders, as there whole existance is to deliver returns to their clients. While those of us who are in for the long haul get pissed on.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: Greed

The markets are largely controlled by mega large speculators and hedgers.

Then Wall St insiders and congress use this knowledge that the rest of us don't have access to in order to make 15+ % gains on a regular basis.

For the average lay person the stock market is no better than a casino.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

1 recommendation

The Drone Speak Continues

"AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson continues to pretend that the deal will lower prices, improve competition, and improve service..."

AT&T can do this on their own.... But they haven't.

What they've done pre-merger....

- Gotten rid of unlimited data plans for the iPhone
- Pulled the unlimited no-contract data plan for the iPad 3G about 40 days after launch
- Gotten rid of tiered texting plans... Now it's zero or unlimited for 20 bucks per month (with lots of minutes)
- Has built out its LTE network to only 15 cities compared to 190 LTE cities which Verizon managed to accomplish in a year...

Heck of a job AT&T...
--
"We're going to start at one end of (Fallujah), and we're not going to stop until we get to the other. If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."
Lt. Col. Pete Newell: 1st Inf. US Army
en103

join:2011-05-02

Re: The Drone Speak Continues

What does LTE have to do with anything ? I don't see Sprint or T-Mobile with it, and VZW is the largest wireless carrier.

Speaking of LTE.. is Verizons LTE still down ?

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Re: The Drone Speak Continues

LTE has to do with the fact that AT&T hasn't made itself competitive with its own resources and capital.

- Verizon was able to accomplish an LTE network buildout to 190 cities in about a Year, with construction going on nationwide.

- For comparison, the Empire State Building was built in 1 Year and 45 days, with construction all on one site.

The best that AT&T can do is LTE to 15 cities? Seriously? With the Billions they've got and the "cupcake" lobbying army?

The best thing that could happen right now is a T-Mobile iPhone...
Please bring it Apple...
--
"We're going to start at one end of (Fallujah), and we're not going to stop until we get to the other. If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."
Lt. Col. Pete Newell: 1st Inf. US Army
en103

join:2011-05-02
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 recommendation

Re: The Drone Speak Continues

I'd personally love to see a T-Mobile 3G/4G iPhone.

If AT&T wasn't competitive... they'd be losing customers, not gaining them. It'd be better to say that AT&T is not consumer friendly. Can companies like AT&T deploy more LTE.. sure. Do they 'need' to - hell no. Does Verizon need to - hell yeah. VZW's (as well as Sprint) are at the end of the life cycle of CDMA 1x/EVDO.
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Re: The Drone Speak Continues

Verizon seems to have a very different corporate culture than AT&T. AT&T has at times made changes to their network that have negatively impacted existing users. Moving GSM off cellular bands and onto PCS for instance. Some people went to bed with four bars and woke up with none because of this change. They did the same when they were in the process of transitioning away from the TDMA network. I can't recall Verizon ever doing anything like this.

Verizon also seems to make more of an effort to invest in their infrastructure. 190 cities with LTE? FiOS deployments? What has AT&T done?

I'm not a Verizon shrill by any means -- I dislike their arrogance a great deal. It's just that the choice between them and AT&T is not a particularly hard one to make. Both will bend you over but the difference is Verizon won't skip town when you get pregnant...

Anyway, AT&T may be competitive amongst the masses but for those in the know it's a different story. Hell, even non-technical folks in certain markets have wised up to AT&T's nonsense. You don't have to be a techie to understand dropped calls and a congested network (ever known an AT&T user in New York City?)...

djdanska
Rudie32
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA
kudos:4
T-Mobile may not but I have no problem downloading at over 30Mb/a on my 4g galaxy tab 10.1 and amaze 4g. it may not be lte but its good enough for me!

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:5
Did AT&T piss in your cereal at some point? You seem to be right there with each and every article that pops up.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Re: The Drone Speak Continues

I'm an avid DSLR reader....

Being in DC and doing what I do has enabled me to see lobbying flacks for what they really are.

Believe me, AT&T has egg on its face in this town... bigtime.

The phony astroturf campaign is what really irks me personally.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:5

Re: The Drone Speak Continues

Of course they do.
So what is it that you do?

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

Re: The Drone Speak Continues

Stakeholder engagement....

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

1 recommendation

said by IPPlanMan:

Being in DC and doing what I do has enabled me to see lobbying flacks for what they really are.

You don't have to live in DC to know what the flacks really are.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

Re: The Drone Speak Continues

said by cdru:

said by IPPlanMan:

Being in DC and doing what I do has enabled me to see lobbying flacks for what they really are.

You don't have to live in DC to know what the flacks really are.

Ain't that the truth. Couldn't agree more.
--
"We're going to start at one end of (Fallujah), and we're not going to stop until we get to the other. If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."
Lt. Col. Pete Newell: 1st Inf. US Army

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

1 recommendation

said by IPPlanMan:

What they've done pre-merger....

- Gotten rid of unlimited data plans for the iPhone
- Pulled the unlimited no-contract data plan for the iPad 3G about 40 days after launch
- Gotten rid of tiered texting plans... Now it's zero or unlimited for 20 bucks per month (with lots of minutes)
- Has built out its LTE network to only 15 cities compared to 190 LTE cities which Verizon managed to accomplish in a year...

Heck of a job AT&T...

- Unlike with other devices they carry, has stated they WILL NEVER unlock an iPhone even after the customer contract is finished thus forcing you to pay their expensive international roaming charges.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

Re: The Drone Speak Continues

Good point. Exactly.

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

2 recommendations

Not Exactly AT&T

Meanwhile, the Washington Post is running what's essentially an obituary for the deal. The piece notes how AT&T has spent more on campaign contributions than any company since 1990, and as a result hasn't been told "no" by a regulator since the original Ma Bell breakup.
It should be noted the warmed over dung calling itself "at&t" IS NOT the "Ma Bell" AT&T of years past but rather SBC Communications renamed "at&t". The former "Ma Bell" AT&T was a heavily regulated monopoly that did do some good; Bell Labs and Western Electric are two notable divisions and their contributions to electrical engineering and the physical sciences are well represented. The mere fact that SBC now calls itself "at&t" does not change the fact that it is a lousy corporate citizen and they are finally learning the lesson "payback is a bitch".
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.
MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

The deal won't be pulled by AT&T...

..... until they have added to the damage that they have already done to T-Mobile.

TMO has been bleeding customers, in part due to throngs not wanting to become customers of the Deathstar.

TMO becomes a better competitor the minute it gets AT&T's breakup-fee cash & spectrum (and maybe an AWS iPhone model), so AT&T will stall the inevitable announcement of a dead deal for as long as possible for those reasons.

Hopefully TMO will then sue AT&T for some anti-competitive behavior once the check clears the bank.
firedrakes

join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL

1 recommendation

Re: The deal won't be pulled by AT&T...

overall still its funny but i am happy it happen. about dam time

philyew

@consolidated.net
Don't cry too hard for TM. They were bleeding customers before the AT&T deal was ever contemplated.

Also, the compensation package, if the deal fails, goes directly the Deutsche Telekom and does not have to be used in the interests of the TM USA business.

From the moment that TM failed to participate in the last round of the spectrum auction that led to the 700 mhz frequency being distributed for LTE deployment, it was clear that Deutsche Telekom (DT) had no long term strategy for TM USA and were only interested in setting the company up for sale/merger. Without that spectrum, TM USA have no route to compete with the leading carriers as they shift to delivering both data and voice over full 4G bandwidth.

Forget about the compensation package helping TM USA to recover from 2+ years of declining subscriptions. DT want the money from the sale to go to support their European operations. They've already said so.

Even with the situation regarding AT&T clarified, Apple will probably not agree to the release of an iPhone model with the required AWS (1700/2100) frequencies because the status of TM USA will remain deeply uncertain. In fact, its viability without AT&T or the compensation funds will become even more precarious until another adequate buyer steps up, which can not only meet DT's revised asking price, but also show the wherewithal to invest in the critically overdue network upgrade that will keep TM USA competitive as the rest of the top tier evolve into LTE.

said by MaynardKrebs:

..... until they have added to the damage that they have already done to T-Mobile.

TMO has been bleeding customers, in part due to throngs not wanting to become customers of the Deathstar.

TMO becomes a better competitor the minute it gets AT&T's breakup-fee cash & spectrum (and maybe an AWS iPhone model), so AT&T will stall the inevitable announcement of a dead deal for as long as possible for those reasons.

Hopefully TMO will then sue AT&T for some anti-competitive behavior once the check clears the bank.

clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US

Re: The deal won't be pulled by AT&T...

said by philyew :

Even with the situation regarding AT&T clarified, Apple will probably not agree to the release of an iPhone model with the required AWS (1700/2100) frequencies because the status of TM USA will remain deeply uncertain.

Oh bullshit. Apple is just extorting money out of the Big 3 to keep it away from TM USA. AT&T probably paid extra to keep the AWS bands out in hopes TM USA customers would clamor for the buyout to be approved. The iPhone 4S chipset supports 1700/2100, and while it may not have the necessary amplifiers/antennas tuned for that frequency (or it may, I'm no RF engineer), given the number of iPhones in use on carriers with much more uncertainty than DT in banana republics across the globe, DT is a pretty safe bet in comparison.

philyew

@consolidated.net

Re: The deal won't be pulled by AT&T...

DT are running T-Mobile USA as a "discontinued operation"..check out their half-year financial report for details. They have made it abundantly clear that they are done with the US market as an operator.

How that progresses for TM USA will be deeply uncertain without AT&T. TM USA is a company which is on the brink of falling out of the leading group of carriers because, without a takeover by a major spectrum holder, they have zero capability to take the next step to LTE.

Even though AT&T's compensation package contains unspecified spectrum, that package goes directly to Deutsche Telekom to use and dispose of at their discretion. None of it need be used for the long term benefit of TM USA unless it clearly profits DT to do so more than direct disposal would do.

AT&T conspiring in hopes that "TM USA customers would clamor for the buyout to be approved"? Really? Comscore have just published the latest count of the number of mobile subscribers in the USA using the iPhone. After years of penetration into the AT&T market, after almost a year of availability with the largest cell service provider, Verizon, and a month of Sprint users eagerly snapping up their first opportunity with the device, less than 11% of mobile subscriptions in the USA use the iPhone.

Take a look at the T-Mobile user forums - with over 150,000 registered users, there are less than 100 posts on the topic of the iPhone not being available. Some clamoring...

Why on earth would Apple be working to keep the iPhone away from TM, if they thought the future was viable, when they have just released it not only to Sprint but also C Spire (formerly Cellular South) - a company primarily serving Mississippi, Alabama and limited parts of Florida, Tennessee and Georgia?
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: The deal won't be pulled by AT&T...

said by philyew :

AT&T conspiring in hopes that "TM USA customers would clamor for the buyout to be approved"? Really? Comscore have just published the latest count of the number of mobile subscribers in the USA using the iPhone. After years of penetration into the AT&T market, after almost a year of availability with the largest cell service provider, Verizon, and a month of Sprint users eagerly snapping up their first opportunity with the device, less than 11% of mobile subscriptions in the USA use the iPhone.

Take a look at the T-Mobile user forums - with over 150,000 registered users, there are less than 100 posts on the topic of the iPhone not being available. Some clamoring...

Why on earth would Apple be working to keep the iPhone away from TM, if they thought the future was viable, when they have just released it not only to Sprint but also C Spire (formerly Cellular South) - a company primarily serving Mississippi, Alabama and limited parts of Florida, Tennessee and Georgia?

This is quite misleading. Everyone knows the money is in smartphones. The iPhone may have "only" 11% of all mobile subscriptions, but when it comes to 2 year contracts nothing even compares. T-Mobile didn't get the iPhone because they weren't willing (or able) to pay Apple's incredibly high prices. Sprint felt it was a necessary investment to shore up their base, and Dan Hesse convinced the white knuckled board to drop $20 billion on iPhones.

C-Spire wants to transition to a high-margin smartphone carrier and responded to its most frequent customer requests.

philyew

@consolidated.net

Re: The deal won't be pulled by AT&T...

I'm not sure what you are saying is misleading. I'm not talking about smartphones in general, although they still do not represent the majority of devices servicing the mobile phone subscriber base.

The part of their income that carriers care most about is their contract revenue. Given that they can get the data component of that revenue from a Blackberry, Android, Windows or iPhone device there is no special reason why selling an iPhone is any more effective than any other smartphone. Of course, carrying the iPhone does prevent contracts going elsewhere because of the customer's specific desire to own one...but that is where the significance of the 11% penetration comes in.

I was simply saying that the previous poster's argument (ie. AT&T probably paid to prevent TM from getting the iPhone to influence TM customer opinion in favor of the deal) did hold up to scrutiny.

There is nothing misleading about the dearth of comment about the iPhone in the TM forum. Frankly the absence of posts surprises even me.

You are right that Apple were asking more than TM were able to pay. Because DT are running TM USA as a "discontinued operation", they can't put up more money to buy into the iPhone than can be recovered over the remaining period of their ownership. Apple clearly can't/won't accommodate that limitation, which is a more accurate way of characterizing their issue with TM's future.
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

2 recommendations

I'm not so sure it's dead

Yes, the deal to swallow T-Mobile whole may in fact be dead, but there are other ways to accomplish the same thing. This is what AT&T might try to do:

1. Enter into a spectrum-sharing deal with T-Mobile. Essentially, both companies' customers could roam on either network, at least on GSM. 3G is a problem because of incompatible bands, but there's no problem with GSM roaming.

2. Start buying unused spectrum from T-Mobile. Start out in more rural areas so it's less likely anyone will notice and complain.

3. Start buying small T-Mobile markets, especially in areas with a regional competitor, so there won't be as much of a competitive shift by losing a player.

4. Work with DT to harmonize bands. That means T-Mobile's 1700 3G goes away and gets replaced by LTE. At the same time, T-Mobile will start selling phones that work on AT&T's 3G and LTE bands.

5. T-Mobile will raise its prices to at least match AT&T's prices. At the same time, those harmonized phones will s-l-o-w-l-y roll out, but they won't come out fast enough to allow everyone to get one. And the price hike might even come first, just for good measure.

6. Once enough markets have been sold off to AT&T, T-Mobile will be a shell of its former self. And, with its higher prices, fewer and fewer people will want to use it. It'll be a carrier on a downward slide.

7. AT&T will make another offer for a smaller and less viable T-Mobile. Naturally, DT will accept, and it will be pitched to regulators as a way to put the assets of a dying carrier to good use. As for the loss of competition, well, it's obvious that the market couldn't support the existing number of carriers, as evidenced by T-Mobile's troubles. And, with luck, by this time there may be a more friendly administration in office.

The deal might take a bit longer this way, but, in the meantime, T-Mobile's frequencies will have been reconfigured to match AT&T's, which had to be done anyway, and prices will have been raised to match AT&T's, so there will be fewer customers potentially grandfathered on cheaper plans. And, if AT&T and DT really wanted to get rid of those customers, DT could simply shut down T-Mobile right before the new buyout deal is announced. Customers would be allowed to leave without an ETF, which means no grandfathered customers, and it has the added benefit of making T-Mobile look like a dead carrier, which all but assures the deal of going through.

You read it here first, folks.

•••••••
ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

6 billion USD worth of spectrum, roaming and cash!

I'm a T-Mobile USA customer, and I'm very excited about the 5 to 6 billion USD worth of spectrum, roaming and cash from AT&T to improve our most affordable 3.75G network.

The deal has been dead since long ago; I'm surprised people didn't believe it's not going to go through.

••••

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 recommendation

Dies? Yeah Right

They'll build a new, far more powerful Death Star next time around... and yet, it will still have a single point of failure.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.
deadzoned
Premium
join:2005-04-13
Cypress, TX

...

Would have been nice if at&t would have just spent all that money on their network to make it less crappy.

I mean c'mon! LTE? Really? at&t still has a terrible 3G network to deal with first! Their plan to charge us 200 dollars a pop for the privilege of using our broadband connection to take strain off of their crappy-ass network seems to be failing.

•••
daniel717

join:2003-12-19
Columbus, MS

Dropping my AT&T Landline

This is the only way to get their attention is to cut services.
Just received my Ooma Telo device and next year I will go somewhere else for cell phone service. They have 39 Billion to buy T-Mobile and they never think about upgrading their network first and replacing DSL with fibre networks going to the home.
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

Re: Dropping my AT&T Landline

And what's VZ's excuse on moving away from DSL? They'll never build out into any new years. So T is just as bad as VZ.

PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD

Re: Dropping my AT&T Landline

Because VZ wanted to move away from horribly-expensive-to-maintain *copper* - and they still do.

Union-friendly politicians see copper serving customers as a labor safety-net *because* it's such a bear to maintain compared to fiber - not because it will save those same customers any money. (As the copper portion of VZ's network inevitably declines in capability, the M&R costs will only increase - how does that help customers any?)

xDSL is still going away for *all* of VZ - whether you are served by FIOS or not.
margegenever

join:2010-08-19
USA

It isn't dead

This deal isn't dead. Money talks in Washington.

You're just watching the politicians theater right now. Once they have extracted a bit more cash and put on a show of caring, the deal will go through. There will be some sort of story of vague ATT concessions held up as a cover.