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Comments on news posted 2012-01-17 18:28:58: For many years we've tracked Chattanooga, Tennessee's attempt to wire the entire city with fiber to the home using the local public utility, Electric Power Board (EPB). Back in 2007, the city council voted 8-0 to approve the $200 million project. ..

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SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo to cramer

MVM

to cramer

Re: Comcap and AT&Trash

said by cramer:

Name them and provide references. I've heard of many muni-nets that were sued, or lobbied into oblivion, but none that collapsed under their own weight.

iProvo (not dead yet, but not making enough profit to survive without heavy taxpayer subsidies): »reason.org/news/show/100 ··· 992.html

Philly muni-wifi: »arstechnica.com/gadgets/ ··· dark.ars

Portland muni-wifi: »MetroFi Antennas Could Cost $60,000 to Remove [39] comments

Utah's Utopia has also been blowing through taxpayer subsidies for years with no hope of becoming profitable anytime soon: »www.connorboyack.com/blo ··· hing-but

Of course, it's much easier for muni networks to not collapse when they can just go to the taxpayer well to get funding for operations, and every citizen is forced to pay for it whether they subscribe to the service or not.
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

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to 45612019

Re: And yet.....

You would deal worse being Canadian. Rogers 150 GB, uh oh

mikedz4
join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

mikedz4

Member

maybe....

maybe if more areas threaten to allow competition the incumbent operators will rollout new features sooner. Just a thought.
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
Westell 6100
Cisco PIX 501

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to 25139889

Re: Comcap and AT&Trash

said by 25139889:

Clyde, Ohio bankrupt BPL network

Lenanon...

BPL. 'nuf said. They might as well've tried starting a dialup ISP.

Lenanon is a great example of how *not* to plan and run a business. When you forecast taking 90% of an established market and hit about half that target, your venture is doomed. No amount of "government cheatiness" can save you there.
said by SpaethCo:

iProvo (not dead yet, but not making enough profit to survive without heavy taxpayer subsidies)

iProvo is another interesting case. All things considered, they aren't losing money as bad as a lot of companies -- the bad part is where the additional funding keeps coming from ("tax payers", actually the city electric company... just like other companies, one venture being propped up by another.) While they're posting losses, they aren't making any headway on paying back the initial investors.

Provo, UT is also a good lesson to learn from... the muni "wholesale fiber" business will not make consumer prices substantially lower than the incumbent networks. Here you have *two* companies trying to eek out a living. One is actively trying to make a profit. The other (city) has to make some sort of profit to payoff the initial investment. (it doesn't help that they failed at running a cable network, too.)

It really isn't a surprise to see Muni-Wifi fail. WiFi just isn't a sustainable media for broadband. In your house, yes. In the local coffee house, sure. Across an entire city... that's a nearly unending sh**load of problems.

Thanks for point those out. Those sort of things rarely hit the front page of the internet, as it were. That just proves idiots can ruin any business, even a government business.

AdamAnon
@comcast.net

AdamAnon to 45612019

Anon

to 45612019
You do realize file sizes don't magically get bigger just because your speed is quicker right?

Most people don't just download dozens of films they're not going to watch just because they can.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

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to 45612019

Re: And yet.....

CenLink caps too now.

At any rate, I use less than 250GB per month most of the time, and if I consistently used more it's not much of an upcharge to move to business class. I'd take Comcast's options (which do include uncapped connections) over CenLink's any day of the week.
Radisc359
join:2010-10-02
Fremont, NE

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Re: maybe....

Some companies may not give a damn until actual competition comes along. That is what has been shown in many places.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

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Re: And yet.....

Guess who has caps too... EPB. I tried to get a quote for a 4th feed from EPB and 4 or 5 emails later they finally told me there were caps. If I remember correctly 30Mb was around 150-200Gb. The bigger problem was that they were unwilling to do establish a BGP session with us at any price.
battleop

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Re: Comcap and AT&Trash

"More cities should follow Chattanooga's lead and hand Comcast and AT&T's asses to them."

Yes, That's a fantastic idea. While we are at it let's put our tax dollars toward putting small business out of business! Government has no business trying to put privately owned businesses out of business. Yet, EPB is doing that very thing by selling services at a loss or by flat out lying to customers to win business.
battleop

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That's not the complete picture. It's easy to make your financials look good when you can bury costs in the power side of the house.
mogamer
join:2011-04-20
Royal Oak, MI

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Re: hrm

said by 45612019:

The majority of America's debt is held by Americans, not China. And I really don't give a shit about the debt. If the United States ever wants to get serious about paying off its debt it will actually raise taxes on the wealthy instead of continuing to decrease them.

America's national debt is quite possibly the biggest scam in human history.

You could tax all of America's millionaires until they have nothing left and it wouldn't pay off the debt. How about having the country living within it's means instead?

keithps
Premium Member
join:2002-06-26
Soddy Daisy, TN

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Re: And yet.....

said by battleop:

Guess who has caps too... EPB. I tried to get a quote for a 4th feed from EPB and 4 or 5 emails later they finally told me there were caps. If I remember correctly 30Mb was around 150-200Gb. The bigger problem was that they were unwilling to do establish a BGP session with us at any price.

I know you're super anti-EPB guy so I'm probably just wasting my time, but EPB doesn't have caps on residential lines at least. I know, I've used over 500GB a month for a year now and I haven't heard a word.
keithps

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to battleop

Re: Comcap and AT&Trash

Well I'm sorry that EPB is messing up your business. However, as a consumer, I'm glad they're around. I don't care if they shave a little off the power side to keep it profitable, its worth it to me. Considering where I live AT&T isn't even an option, and wireless coverage is pathetic, I'm thrilled to have an option besides Comcast.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

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to keithps

Re: And yet.....

I was working on a commercial account not residential account. Maybe they are different or maybe you get a cap depending on the type of customer you are.
battleop

battleop to keithps

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to keithps

Re: Comcap and AT&Trash

The local providers would not have such a bitter taste in their mouth if EPB would sell us the same services that they sell any one else. We are not even asking for wholesale pricing just sell it to us the same services they would sell anyone else at the same price.
TheGuvnor9
join:2006-06-23
Beverly Hills, CA

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to keithps
I hate you....LOL
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

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Build your own and then charge yourself whatever you want.

Isn't that the "calling card" of all you guys when consumers complain of a lack of obtainable services at a speed/price they are willing to spend?

Now you are going to come here and whine because you can't get their services and you are in the business of providing them?

Boo Freaking Hoo!

Somnambul33t
L33t.
Premium Member
join:2002-12-05
00000

Somnambul33t

Premium Member

How is this set up/paid for?

Is EPB a public company? Was that initial $200M tax-payer funded? Was additional money required to complete the rollout? Is EPB making money from these offerings? How is service? What do their bundles include? TV?

TheRock
@cloud-ips.co.uk

TheRock

Anon

Seattle Did It

I live in a community that has FTTH and its great!

We live in Issaquah Washington a suburb of Seattle and the operator just upped our speeds to 1Gbps for $199. There is about 3000 of us with service and I find it awesome. We can also get 100Mb for $55 which is a steal in our area. Comcast isn't even close. The operator, Highlands Fiber Network, is the community and did it all without government monies. They been doing it for over 10 years. Not sure what is in Chattanooga but I can't recommend more getting FTTH out to everyone in the U.S.

»www.highlandsfibernetwor ··· com/news

David
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL

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Re: hrm

said by mogamer:

How about having the country living within it's means instead?

+1

I am glad someone said it.

Eagles1221
join:2009-04-29
Vincentown, NJ

Eagles1221

Member

not steep

1 Gbit for 350 a month isn't steep have you price a Verizon T1 lately?
45612019 (banned)
join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

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Re: Comcap and AT&Trash

I agree, we should put our tax dollars towards putting business out of business.

The private sector has been given decades and over $200 billion in tax incentives to establish competent communications infrastructure in the United States. Typical greed from corporate suits derailed this of course.

Time to bring in the government to boot these corporate fatcats out. I'm tired of a handful of greedy "for profit" citizens ruining vital infrastructure for the other 300 million Americans in this country. The underlying telecommunications infrastructure and healthcare industry needs to be put into the government's hands, not a select few executives trying to squeeze every penny out of their fellow citizens.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

1 recommendation

battleop

Member

Fuck it.... Why not spend our tax dollars on subsidizing groceries, gas, and any thing else that cost more than we think it should cost. What we need is more government spending. Let's just work our way to a 110% taxation so we can pay for all of our wants instead of our needs.

No, large corporations like AT&T and Verizon have been given billions in tax incentives. I challenge you to find a SMALL business in the ISP sector that has been receiving this "$200 Billion in tax incentives." In fact I believe that you will find that these SMALL businesses have to pay into funds that go back to the ILEC that they can not use.

treich
join:2006-12-12

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to mix
Dont forget LTE will have caps so it wont take along for you blow way them caps on the LTE SPEEDS!!!
treich

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to TheRock

Re: Seattle Did It

FTTH to rural america is going to be done for it cost 2 much to do it trust me because I contacted XO and they wanted 1million dollars to build me a fiber line to rural part of ohio.

So FTTH is only going to be in bigger towns or expect to pony UP $$$ for rural fiber if you really want it.

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY

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Re: Comcap and AT&Trash

Most speedtest.net servers won't do more than 30Mbps. I have problems getting most of them to go past 30 up at work. They have no problems with maxing the 100Mbps port out though!
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

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Japan is able to roll out their entire network with no problems due to all of the US $$$ going there for electronics we buy.

Plus they're able to roll out fiber due to they have more people per square mile than the US does.
25139889

25139889 (banned) to Wilsdom

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to Wilsdom
agree but Fireman are NOT fat- LoL.
25139889

25139889 (banned) to keithps

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the FTTH network can NOT be profitable nor can the city. IRS Law.
25139889

25139889 (banned) to Arty50

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still a failed project for both.

And Cinci had a great BPL network with Current.
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