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Up Shyt creekthe fact of the matter is ...Lightsquared ... youre FKD. Even the remote possibility of interfering with GPS (which the entire US population depends on now) will lead you down the road to nowhere.
GPS is just one of those things where excess unused capacity is a good thing and was designed as such for a very good reason. |
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 FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
1 edit |
FFH5
Premium Member
2012-Jan-18 2:39 pm
Lightsquared buying old FCC insider to get leverage?Is LS using the contacts of a previous FCC head engineer, that is now a Lightsquared consultant, as a way to reach and influence or discredit current FCC policies? It wouldn't be the 1st time an FCC insider has sold themselves to the people they used to regulate. |
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 cdruGo Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN |
cdru
MVM
2012-Jan-18 2:41 pm
Isn't that kinda the point of testing?[Testing] was conducted in total secrecy, involved selectively choosing discontinued hardware with limited to no filters for testing, and that the process selected an "extremely conservative definition of failure" unrelated to real world GPS performance intended to increase failure rates. Isn't that kind of the point of testing? Not the secrecy part, but testing with older devices with conservative definitions/limits? If oil companies developed a new fuel formula, don't you think that they would test it not only with the newest vehicles, but also with older models? With something like GPS, I think it would be the safer approach to err on the side of caution rather then be liberal and approve something that may work with newest devices, but would break millions of existing ones without some type of an upgrade. |
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 n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY |
n2jtx
Member
2012-Jan-18 2:47 pm
said by cdru:Isn't that kind of the point of testing? Not the secrecy part, but testing with older devices with conservative definitions/limits? If oil companies developed a new fuel formula, don't you think that they would test it not only with the newest vehicles, but also with older models? This is true but in LightSquared's warped sense of reality, those of us with GPS receivers should scrap our paid off equipment and buy new to cover up their spectrum pollution which may or may not work regardless. Hopefully the FCC and government can run out the clock on this company so they collapse under the weight of all their expenses. The next milestone will be January 31st when Sprint can decide to grant another extension to their collaboration or pull the plug. |
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 FutureMonDude Whats mine say?
join:2000-10-05
Marina, CA |
to StLCardsFan
Re: Up Shyt creekThe last thing we need is for someone's Lightsquared internet connection while they are doing a speed test here at BBR to interfere with the GPS signal of an intercontinental ballistic missile aimed at our enemies  - FM |
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hbgraul
Anon
2012-Jan-18 2:55 pm
Lightsquared and liesI don't consider myself able to participate in any technical discussion of the specifics, but when I learned that the whole business is the brain child of a suspect investment banker I smelled lies in the wind immediately, they being the sort of snakes that brought the economy low a few years back. |
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Flibbetigibb
Anon
2012-Jan-18 3:00 pm
Damn skippy they used a conservative definition of failure.The Air Force doesn't give a rat's ass about commercial GPS vendors. Their concern is LightSquared interfering with military GPS receivers, and rightly so. Bombs being jammed by LightSquared's kludgey network and guiding to the wrong place would be, um, bad. |
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JBear
join:2005-02-24
canada |
JBear
Member
2012-Jan-18 3:06 pm
Maybe Iran will want to inquire about this technology? |
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 N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
1 recommendation |
to StLCardsFan
Re: Up Shyt creekYou kidding me? Everyone knows lightning fast wireless Pr0N is more important than things like weapons guidance, airliners and the 100's of other uses for GPS.  |
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rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO |
to Flibbetigibb
Re: Damn skippy they used a conservative definition of failure.Do "smart" bombs use GPS? As LightSquared has shown, GPS is seemingly easy to jam.
I thought smart bombs (i.e. cruise missiles) determined their location using internal terrain maps combined with real-time RADAR/LIDAR. They follow major terrain and literally "recognize" their target in an almost "visual" sense. This approach is very tough to fool and jam. Provided the internal maps are current, it's pretty hard for an adversary to hide/relocate a large geographic feature like a mountain or valley in an effort to send the bomb off-course. |
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 deheza
join:2004-06-10
Allen, TX |
deheza
Member
2012-Jan-18 3:50 pm
They want us to pay to correct their interference problem!! I've been in the RF communication field since 1954. Mostly Avionics and Marine electronics and communication. I know the frequencies they propose to use would interfere with GPS. Their attitude is personal, small business ( Farmers and Surveyors ), Airlines, Marine users and Military just need to purchase new GPS equipment and all will be OK.
I feel the same way about BPL internet; the interference problems are too big to make it practical. The faster BPL internet is, the more interference it creates. When the interference is cut to a dull roar it is slow enough that it's not very marketable. |
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Flibbetigibb to rradina
Anon
2012-Jan-18 4:21 pm
to rradina
Re: Damn skippy they used a conservative definition of failure.Look up "JDAM" when Wikipedia comes back online... |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC |
to Flibbetigibb
I agree. Light-squared needs to prove that they don't interfere with all existing receiver+antenna combinations. Providing a workaround isn't enough, people expect to install their GPS systems and not worry about them again. |
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brooklyn bridge of spectrumsomeone sold this company a bill of goods on this spectrum... that's turned out to be fools gold.
nevertheless, with AT&T and Verizon duopolizing the (wireless) industry-- companies squatting on spectrum are NOT going to be getting any NEW spectrum (other than the deals in process excluding lightsquared) anytime soon.
this makes you wonder why the major carriers are crying poor when consumers want unlimited bandwidth. sure, some congestion management and FAIR USE POLICY should begin to apply but the carriers have NEVER historically proven that they ran out of spectrum. what was at fault was the LACK OF BUILDOUT of the current spectrum with INVESTMENTS in NEW technology (such as 4g) and redundancy of footprint-- using the SAME frequencies. today's technology is thousands of times more efficient than old analog cell service per MHZ. |
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25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH |
to Flibbetigibb
Re: Damn skippy they used a conservative definition of failure.wiki is NOT a valid source for reference. And wiki is up online if you translate and use another country. so their "blackout" FAILED. |
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You just hit esc before the black out loads. But it did not fail. Wikipedia has advertised the issue to more people than anyone else. |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK |
to Flibbetigibb
Yeah, in case they needed to bomb targets within the United States, while LightSquared was operating in the area....
However, I think LightSquared is screwed, although they did make a few valid points. |
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 sundrop
Premium Member
join:2004-08-21
Springfield, MO |
sundrop
Premium Member
2012-Jan-18 6:10 pm
Bigger FishBeing as how over the last year we have "accidentally" dropped several BLU-110/B at the wrong target. I say there is bigger issue's the (PNT EXCOM) needs to handle. |
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JDAM to 25139889
Anon
2012-Jan-18 7:05 pm
to 25139889
Re: Damn skippy they used a conservative definition of failure.Then look up JDAM anywhere else on the internet and find...pretty much the same information as on Wikipedia. |
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 r81984Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
2 recommendations |
to 25139889
said by 25139889:wiki is NOT a valid source for reference. And wiki is up online if you translate and use another country. so their "blackout" FAILED.
wiki has links to valid sources. That is what people use it for. As for the blackout it is Javascript so all you need to do is disable JS or hit stop really fast while the page is loading to stop the JS cover from loading. The block was to help people like you who have no idea how technology works to learn how our government wants to control the internet. Your post = fail |
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| r81984 |
r81984
Premium Member
2012-Jan-18 10:33 pm
Why wont they give up?They built their business model on being able to trick the FCC to approve the spectrum they knew would cause interference from day one. Good thing the FCC could not be bought this time. Now they are in bash FCC mode, i guess they think they can somehow arm twist to get their waiver approved. |
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 RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY |
to FutureMon
Re: Up Shyt creeksaid by FutureMon:The last thing we need is for someone's Lightsquared internet connection while they are doing a speed test here at BBR to interfere with the GPS signal of an intercontinental ballistic missile aimed at our enemies
- FM
Where is this hypothetical enemy located? Any supposed interference would be in the continental US not anywhere else in the world. Also why does the missile not have better filters to block out the type of interference that is claimed to result from Lightsquared use of their assigned frequencies (which are not allocated to GPS usage but are being seen by the GPS equipment which are looking at the Lightsquared frequencies when they should be ignoring them. |
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The last time I dealt with ICBMs was as a Launch Crew Commander, the missiles didn't use GPS for guidance. |
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nodog
Anon
2012-Jan-19 8:50 am
GPS is interfering with LightSquared |
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to KrK
Re: Damn skippy they used a conservative definition of failure.GPS is also used to navigate airplanes. Not just for imaginary missiles. Airplanes full of people. |
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errno to nodog
Anon
2012-Jan-19 8:59 am
to nodog
Re: GPS is interfering with LightSquaredReceiving outside spectrum isn't interference, transmitting is. Lightsquareds power output will bleed into GPS due to the high power considering adjacent signals are supposed to be satellite based. |
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FutureMonDude Whats mine say?
join:2000-10-05
Marina, CA |
to RARPSL
Re: Up Shyt creek@Austinloop - ya learn something new every day. Prior to learning that, however, I was going to reply to RARPSL with the following (which now would appear I'd have been talking out of my a$$ but it would have been my logical assumption) 1) We have lots and lots of missile silo's throughout the country. Think Kansas. These things have got to go over our land on their way to their destination, wherever that may be. 2) Why would these preinstalled GPS systems on the missiles require a filter to block out interference that has not been present due to the exclusive use of the band up until now. They'd presumably have to retrofit all the missiles with new filters to do such blocking if Lightsquared had the capability of encroaching on the signal space. |
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Flibbetigibb to KrK
Anon
2012-Jan-19 12:45 pm
to KrK
Re: Damn skippy they used a conservative definition of failure.You mean like the live bomb drop tests that happen all the time on military ranges inside the US?
Nah, it wouldn't matter at all if LightSquared were operating in, say, Las Vegas or Pensacola or Los Angeles. Nobody lives there... |
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to FutureMon
Re: Up Shyt creekive thought about this some ... quite a bit actually. I think having the public network so close to guidance systems has doom written all over it.
I mean really ... look at something as simple as a hacker unlocking/locking/starting/disabling cars ... i dont think we need the entire world having access to GPS frequencies. True ..one could say that millions have GPS receivers ...but thats the point ...receive only.
I am no radiospectrum scientist ...but even the remote possibility could prove to be catastrophic.
YOu dont get the 777 dreamliner back ...nor the JDAM bomb once its set off course with GPS interference. |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J
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to Flibbetigibb
Re: Damn skippy they used a conservative definition of failure.You haven't been following the discussion. LightSquared doesn't completely jam GPS, but it can interfere with precision positioning made possible by using many different satellites including ones that are at the far limits of range and have frequency shifted via the doppler effect.
So, it's possible that LightSquared operating near a bomb range could cause a GPS guided test missile to miss the target by several yards vs a foot or two..... Yes..... but go way off target and threaten personnel or civilians away from the target.... not a chance.
Also I am unaware of guided bombs that fall by gravity being GPS based. They may have them, but I am unaware of them. That would seem inherently dangerous to me. |
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