Tell me more x
, there is a new speed test available. Give it a try, leave feedback!
dslreports logo
spacer
1
spacer
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer

view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2012-01-27 17:31:20: Anybody who warns of an unavoidable capacity crisis on wireline or wireless networks is lying in order to sell you something. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next

59677028

join:2012-01-19
Pontypool, ON

ipv4 vs 6

ask the federal us govt how many million upon hundreds of millions of ips they have for what?
and then you see what they are doing eating them up forcing this v6 at everyone to make a buck...why the fbi alone has 120 million dedicated for just honey potting i hearzzzz


vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

1 recommendation

With IP it's a bit different: unlike network capacity, the number of IP addresses is a known quantity. IPv4 gives you, at most, about 4 billion IP addresses. Being that the population of the world is 7 billion, it's just not enough. We could delay the inevitable for a short time by reclaiming IP addresses, using more NAT, etc, but a 32 bit address space really is too small in an age when more and more people and devices are connecting to the internet.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Comcast and ATT worst offenders

Of the Exaflood myth.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Siri is causing capacity problem on wireless networks

»www.washingtonpost.com/o ··· ory.html

Paul Farhi covers media for The Post.

Siri’s dirty little secret is that she’s a bandwidth guzzler, the digital equivalent of a 10-miles-per-gallon Hummer H1.

To make your wish her command, Siri floods your cell network with a stream of data; her responses require a similarly large flow in return. A study published this month by Arieso, an Atlanta firm that specializes in mobile networks, found that the Siri-equipped iPhone 4S uses twice as much data as does the plain old iPhone 4 and nearly three times as much as does the iPhone 3G. The new phone requires far more data than most other advanced smartphones, which are pretty data-intensive themselves, The Post has reported.

Arieso says that the Siri-equipped iPhone 4S “appears to unleash data consumption behaviors that have no precedent.”

Cell and data networks are like any common resource; they have limits. And once they hit their limit, regardless of which group is using its share and then some, there’s no more to go around.

This means that Siri’s data-hogging ways are a problem for more than just those willing to foot the bill. As networks become congested, everyone’s service deteriorates. Private desire becomes a public issue. Calls are dropped or never completed; Internet access slows.

no matter how many cell towers we throw up, sooner or later we’ll bump up against the rigid limits of the electromagnetic spectrum, the invisible frequencies over which all electronic communications move. And building new capacity isn’t cheap. Everyone — not just the first-class passengers — ends up paying for it. So prepare for higher cellphone bills.

And in the meantime? Prepare to sit and wait. That call to Grandma might not get through until the congestion clears.

The government’s top airwaves cop, Federal Communications Commission Chairman Julius Genachowski, has long warned about a looming “spectrum crunch.” If the United States can’t free up more bandwidth for mobile uses, more people than just cellphone users would be inconvenienced, he warns. The lack of new capacity, he says, would threaten U.S. jobs in the telecom industry and stifle technical progress.

The only way to free up some now is to reshuffle the lineup, moving older users (say, over-the-air TV and radio stations and government agencies) to another part of the band in favor of the up-and-coming hot shots. Of course, that kind of change is disruptive. A massive political battle looms, pitting the haves against the want-mores.

It is all the iPhone 4S's fault and that talkative SIRI biatch.
--
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
»www.politico.com/2012-election/



N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2
reply to DataRiker

Re: Comcast and ATT worst offenders

Yep. Until my iPhone is getting 56k speeds, I'm not buying it. My Fios at home is pretty much too fast for just about every web server I download content from.

Given the national data backbone is upgradable by switching out the gear at either end of the fiber runs, and the exaflood becomes as believable as the missile gap or the bomber gap... In 2012.....
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

Spectrum crunch: not a problem today, but eventually

There's a fixed amount of wireless spectrum available, and there's a theoretical maximum amount of data that can be pushed through it. That's a laws-of-physics type limitation, no new wireless technology will ever relieve us of that limitation. Is this a problem today, or even in the immediate future? No, there's a very long way to go before we hit there, and we can pump multiple gigabits of bandwidth over the air before we hit that limit. One day, however, we WILL hit that limitation. Cell sizes can shrink, spreading the load, although there are trade-offs there too. One day, in a few decades, we're going to run out of spectrum, and the aggregate wireless transit capacity at that point will be all we'll ever have.

So, the "looming wireless apocalypse" isn't a lie, it just isn't going to happen any time soon. But it'll really suck when it does, way down the road. Personally, I think that demand will eventually subside, making it less of a problem. After all, there are only so many things you can do with bandwidth. Video is driving usage ever higher and higher, but there comes a point where your video content exceeds human ability to perceive it (as in, your eyes can't resolve higher resolutions), and the ever increasing video bitrates taper off. We reached this point long ago for audio; you can transmit perceptually lossless 24-bit audio over a 3G connection without any issues, but nobody really bothers with that even on 24-bit capable hardware because it just doesn't make all that big of a difference.

I'd actually argue that, at the point where you can (or need to) stream perceptually lossless high-framerate 4K 3D video and surround sound audio, we'll have hit that point. Because at that point, you could just stream the entire interface to your device, and there would be no need for any higher amount of bandwidth to your device. That's probably somewhere on the order of one or two hundred megabits per second. Several orders of magnitude beyond current average usage (you might hit 20 megs on your LTE phone, but with a 2GB cap, your average ain't gonna be that high).
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to FFH5

Re: Siri is causing capacity problem on wireless networks

Siri uses speex for audio compression... The amount of bandwidth that even a heavy siri user would consume in a day is trivial. Watch one youtube video on your phone and you've probably used more bandwidth than a week of siri use.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Alex J

@jillyred.net
reply to FFH5
And again, not so much:

»arstechnica.com/apple/ne ··· ates.ars

If you use Siri 2-3 times per day at an average of 63KB per instance, you might expect to use 126KB to 189KB per day, or 3.7 to 5.5MB per month. For 4-6 times a day, that might come out to 252KB to 378KB per day, or 7.4 to 11MB per month. If you use it 10-15 times per day, you might end up using 630KB to 945KB per day, or 18.5 to 27.7MB per month.



mix

join:2002-03-19
Utica, MI

Dark Fiber

Wasn't there a huge glut of dark fiber in this country that people used to talk about a few years ago? What happened to all of this excess capacity?

axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

Explore the spectrum squatters?

If you or someone has time, could they write one of those featured articles about who has what spectrum, how much, and what purposes can it be used for?

MrShag

join:2006-07-09
Hamilton, ON
reply to mix

Re: Dark Fiber

Google Fiber.

MrShag

join:2006-07-09
Hamilton, ON

Ironic don't you think. ( I feel a song coming on)

These companies are scaremongering over their over-extended network. That all the heavy users are going to sink the internet.
And how concerned they are for capacity.
Crying about the fact they HAVE to pay to upgrade.

At the same they are still open to signing up new customers. The very thing that causes the congestion in the first place.
--
UBB - Universal Butt Banged. Thank-you Bell My I have another.


Chucks Truck

@teksavvy.com

Canada prices wireless like everyone is a multimillionaire

Wireless in Canada is only for the well to do. Heck even working two or three jobs the average person still couldn't afford the rates in this country. I'd hate to see what would happen if there was in fact a shortage. Well i guess only the billionaires in this country could then afford it.
Expand your moderator at work


Chucks Truck

@teksavvy.com
reply to Alex J

Re: Siri is causing capacity problem on wireless networks

I totally agree with you.
Expand your moderator at work

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

1 recommendation

Spectrum is finite

Its no myth. You can't change the laws of physics.

Just exactly how many HD-video-streaming connections do the enlightened folks here think a cell site can handle in a 12 Mhz block?

Video and torrentz and gaming have no natural limit on consumption, where voice traffic can be contained with 8-16kbps.

We've seen what happens when no limits are placed on usage.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to Guspaz

Re: Spectrum crunch: not a problem today, but eventually

Fixed or not, improvements or not, there is one thing for sure. There we NEVER be an exoflood as networks will always work themselves out in 1 of 3 ways or a combination of all 3.

1.) Carrier improves the network through investment in innovation and equipment.
2.) Carriers raise prices to cause people to leave the network freeing up resources for those that stay (simple law of demand).
3.) Carriers do nothing, people seek better alternatives thus freeing up resources for those that have stayed.

Nothing else needs to done period.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to elray

Re: Spectrum is finite

You have not clue what you are talking about concerning video and gaming. Both of those use # kbps second just like voice does. Do they vary based on the quality of video? Sure. But a game does not use multi mbps to run and any implication by you is just silly.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to Guspaz

Re: Spectrum crunch: not a problem today, but eventually

said by Guspaz:

There's a fixed amount of wireless spectrum available, and there's a theoretical maximum amount of data that can be pushed through it. That's a laws-of-physics type limitation, no new wireless technology will ever relieve us of that limitation.

You are missing one parameter: fixed amount of bandwidth within a given cell. Reduce the cell radius by half, you can now reuse the same spectrum up to eight times as often (3D space) and you can repeat the process until you reach the smallest practical cell size such as pico-cells (50-200m range) embedded into incumbent modems/ONTs/CPEs turning every wired subscriber into a wireless cell for the incumbent's own wireless network.

For now, incumbents are sticking mainly to femto-cells (~10m range) due to the technical challenges of maintaining accurate frequencies over time but this will probably change once a cost-effective and reliable solution is found.

bcltoys

join:2008-07-21
Lost today

Stop hd video or stop all video.

I have no problem with stopping all video downloading on cell-network's. You-tube 4 billon download's a day not all on mobile network's but proly half. Let the fire storm/flaming begin.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to Skippy25

Re: Spectrum crunch: not a problem today, but eventually

said by Skippy25:

Fixed or not, improvements or not, there is one thing for sure. There we NEVER be an exoflood as networks will always work themselves out

That depends on whether or not peak-hour usage will start tapering off before catching up with hardware capacity growth.

If you read Cisco VNI and other similar reports, some types of peak-hour usages such as video streaming grow by 50-60%/year. On the other hand, large routers's capacity/density/cost improve at a rate of about 25%/year.

Whether or not the exaflood will happen depends on whether or not demand will catch up with hardware's head-start before slowing down.


Alex J

@speakeasy.net
reply to elray

Re: Spectrum is finite

Its no myth. You can't change the laws of physics.

Arguing that most capacity fear mongering isn't based on fact does not violate the laws of physics. Nobody is arguing that spectrum isn't finite. The point is that constant chicken little cries are not done by scientists or engineers, they're done by used car salesmen.

We've seen what happens when no limits are placed on usage.

Yeah you get happy, loyal customers. Sounds awful.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

1 recommendation

reply to Alex J

Re: Siri is causing capacity problem on wireless networks

Good thing only one person owns a iPhone. Imagine what would happen if millions had one and used it at the same time.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to InvalidError

Re: Spectrum crunch: not a problem today, but eventually

That can be done but equipment, towers, and engineers are not cheap.
Expand your moderator at work


Alex J

@ecatel.net
reply to battleop

Re: Siri is causing capacity problem on wireless networks

Good thing only one person owns a iPhone. Imagine what would happen if millions had one and used it at the same time.

Yeah, especially if the company with the initial exclusive contract to offer such a device has a long track record of putting acquisitions, executive compensation, and lobbying ahead of actually investing in the network.


Alex J

@sunwave.com.br
reply to InvalidError

Re: Spectrum crunch: not a problem today, but eventually

If you read Cisco VNI and other similar reports, some types of peak-hour usages such as video streaming grow by 50-60%/year.

Story above pretty clearly highlights Cisco's predictions are inflated. Two guesses why. One should be "to sell hardware."


Thistool

@144.70.2.x
reply to bcltoys

Re: Stop hd video or stop all video.

Bandwidth is not Finite Nor is spectrum, a companies lack of willingness to upgrade and improve infrastructure is this brick wall. If you follow a natural technology progression 20 years ago a 900baud modem was as fast as most thought we could go. Today I type this on a residential 100/50 fiber to the home connection. The same can and should be said about radio waves and the ability's to efficiently use them. While it seems uncommon now to do most everything over a cellular network for most bandwidth needs. Video's, games, content, media in general will continue to increase and technology will adapt to make more efficient use of market required needs. Until the market demands a substantial shift in the way business is done. Legacy companies will continue to cry foul and waste more money spinning arguments trying to convince the masses that increased cost and less service is needed for the good of the network. To be honest in a dream world most companies would love to charge you for not providing a service and continue to raise rates when they literally do nothing for you. Stockholders will never be satisfied with a 100% profit margin the market will continue to want increased profits quarter by quarter.