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Comments on news posted 2012-02-10 18:24:30: • Free Mobile's impact--we should have seen it coming [fiercewireless.com] • Uh Oh! Not a good sign: Broadband speed demon Korea starts throttling 'data hungry' smart TV's [whathifi.com] • Apple, Samsung own 95% of all mobile phone profits [cnet. ..


FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

RE:LightSquared Customers Plead with FCC

Boo Hoo!! Sign a wholesale deal with someone else. Sprint, TMO, Verizon, AT&T come to mind.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

1 recommendation

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: RE:LightSquared Customers Plead with FCC

they should not have signed with a company that had no product sometimes gambling comes with loss and they are facing that loss.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 recommendation

88615298 (banned)

Member

BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

bullshit. Even if just one person doesn't see a movie because he illegally downloaded it then it is affecting the box office take of that movie even if it's a small amount. The hyperbole on both sides of this issue is getting rediculous.

And even if it didn't, if one doesn't want to pay for content they should be paying for then they aren't entitled to view that content. the "I wasn't going to see that movie anyways" reasoning is not a valid excuse.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

If I down load a movie and don't intend to pay for it at the box office then they lose nothing. If I download a movie instead of going then they loose money. In either case how can either side track this? They can't.
Wilsdom
join:2009-08-06

Wilsdom

Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

Nobody really wants to watch cam rips anyway. The conflict has always been about the movie studios getting eternal royalties from DVDs, TV, etc.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

1 recommendation

fiberguy2 to battleop

Premium Member

to battleop
You're right.. and if you steal that TV set from Best Buy but never watch it, or intend to watch it, then you're not hurting anyone either, right?

Seriously, where do you guys come up with this crap-logic?

Explain to me how you're not acting entitled? Explain to me how you don't have to follow the rule of law because you're, I'm guessing, an "informed consumer" and you're just exercising your right.. and the stuff is "crap" anyway so you'd never buy it.. and if that is the case, as is often the argument, then why the F' are you even downloading the torrent in the first place?

People who think like you think you're intelligent.. the matter of fact is you're anything but.

Like it or not, you're not in your right to download or have something that is clearly for profit and sale when you didn't pay for it.. plain and simple, you're a thief.

What you're advocating is that since it can't be enforced, then why bother enforcing it... for that, sir, we get DRM crap that no one likes.

Seriously.. time to move out of Mom's basement already.

I can't even begin to comprehend your skewed logic here... "if I download a movie and I didn't intend to pay for it at the box office then they lose nothing".. serious? What you JUST SAID was "If I intended on stealing it, they lost nothing".. how tarded!

Xioden
Premium Member
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY

Xioden

Premium Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

Piracy does not equal theft.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

said by Xioden:

Piracy does not equal theft.

Neither is sneaking into a movie theater without paying. Is that ok to do?

Xioden
Premium Member
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY

Xioden

Premium Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

Neither piracy nor trespassing in a movie theater actually harm either, so sure.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

said by Xioden:

Neither piracy nor trespassing in a movie theater actually harm either, so sure.

Really not paying for stuff you should is ok? Nice morals.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

so we should associate human morality with the consumption of goods in a society centered around the greed and desire to hoard that characterizes the human condition?

If what you say is true, why don't you spend more time harping on the entertainment industry's hijacking of the political process for alleges monetary gain at the expense of human rights and Democratic principles?
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to Xioden

Premium Member

to Xioden
said by Xioden:

Piracy does not equal theft.

Are you ma'ad?? What the hell do you think a Pirate is?? ... do yourself a favor and go steal any pirate movie such as Pirates of the Caribbean or something and see what a pirate is, if that helps. a Pirate is a thief!

Again, with the logic already... Piracy IS theft.

"Piracy is an act of robbery or criminal violence at sea. The term can include acts committed on land, in the air, or in other major bodies of water or on a shore. It does not normally include crimes committed against persons traveling on the same vessel as the perpetrator (e.g. one passenger stealing from others on the same vessel). The term has been used to refer to raids across land borders by non-state agents."

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

DataRiker to fiberguy2

Premium Member

to fiberguy2
said by fiberguy2:

You're right.. and if you steal that TV set from Best Buy but never watch it, or intend to watch it, then you're not hurting anyone either, right?

Seriously, where do you guys come up with this crap-logic?

So your equating copy and paste with stealing a DVD out of a store?

I think you need to study a bit of logic yourself.

In fact equating replication with stealing opens all kinds of contradictions.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

said by DataRiker:

said by fiberguy2:

You're right.. and if you steal that TV set from Best Buy but never watch it, or intend to watch it, then you're not hurting anyone either, right?

Seriously, where do you guys come up with this crap-logic?

So your equating copy and paste with stealing a DVD out of a store?

I think you need to study a bit of logic yourself.

In fact equating replication with stealing opens all kinds of contradictions.

Ok how about sneaking into a movie theater without paying? nothing is getting stolen in that case either. You're just viewing content without paying for it. So basically same thing as downloadling so it should be ok then in your opinion.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

said by 88615298:

said by DataRiker:

said by fiberguy2:

You're right.. and if you steal that TV set from Best Buy but never watch it, or intend to watch it, then you're not hurting anyone either, right?

Seriously, where do you guys come up with this crap-logic?

So your equating copy and paste with stealing a DVD out of a store?

I think you need to study a bit of logic yourself.

In fact equating replication with stealing opens all kinds of contradictions.

Ok how about sneaking into a movie theater without paying? nothing is getting stolen in that case either. You're just viewing content without paying for it. So basically same thing as downloadling so it should be ok then in your opinion.

Seriously,... no one can help you with your lack of education but yourself. You're clearly making stuff up to suit your own needs as you go along here.. again, you may think you live in a more perfect world and that you're some kind of rebel to be someone's hero for, but you're not. What you are is ill informed of the law.

Theft does not only apply to things you can touch and hold in your hand. OUR LAWS have established that intellectual property is able to be stolen as well. You're SERIOUSLY reaching here to try to make your point some how seem logical. But, in short, you're wrong.

The theft here is viewing the product with out paying for it. The "theft" may not be anything you can take with you, but it's what you failed to LEAVE BEHIND, which was your cover, your toll, your money in short.

So in your mind it must also be okay to cross a bridge with out paying a toll (I'd love to see you try that one) or to enter into an amusement park by crashing the gate (I suppose that's not theft either) or going into a rock concert with out paying.. also, I DARE you to try and get on an airplane with out paying for the ticket. PLEASE try that one.

So with the above examples which equate to our favorite topic here, tell me how any of the above is illegal while watching a movie with out paying for it is not?

It's called getting a service with out paying for it.. or in simple terms, it's trade... only YOU failed to trade.

Again as I said, time to grow up and move out of mom's basement and get with the rest of the world.

There is, however, two thoughts mixed up into one here.. Taking a movie with out paying for it is theft.. don't care how you try to skew it up to support your own f'd up way of thinking... but on the other hand there is a consumer backlash against the entertainment industry that feels that the price of movies or how they are sold and able to be used is a problem.. and in some parts I agree.

Movies are not over priced.. $8 to see a movie is nothing.. and please stop blaming hollywood for the price of a bucket of popcorn and medium drink being $14 - that's your theater, not Hollywood. As for the price of a DVD or Bluray movie, sure the prices may be high, but again you're not entitled to be entertained at a bargain price.. so don't' buy them. People say that hollywood charges too much and squanders in the face of the people.. introducing YouTube.. people have an ability to produce their own stuff.. I rarely today see people investing millions into producing top quality movies, and if they, or you, did, I"m sure you'd understand the point behind hollywood's battle against priates..

However, once I purchase a movie, it should be mine to use how I want in my own home - and that's where it ends.. in my home. It's still not mine to put on the internet.. but I should be able to stream it to myself anywhere I am and it's none of their business.. The problem is that people, such as yourself, can't respect that and stop there.. so here we are.

The more you guys try to push this idea, the more they're going to come back with PIPA and SOPA..

... YOU and your kind are to thank for this. Applaud yourself.

And do yourself a favor and please, don't ever try to use reverse psychology on me with your brand of logic because it makes me sick. I don't subscribe to your logic or theories.. so spare me the "so then X must be okay in your opinion".. I make no bones about it so you have no need to try to twist my opinions to prove my own thoughts wrong.. I am against theft, plain and simple. When I want a movie, I buy it. When I want a song, I buy it.. I don't go on line and steal it. If everyone believed as you, then there would be no entertainment industry for you to steal from anymore. got it? But I'm sure in your mind it's okay because there are still enough suckers out there paying,... so you don't have to.

Plain and simple, you're and those like you are thieves..
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

said by fiberguy2:

Seriously,... no one can help you with your lack of education but yourself. You're clearly making stuff up to suit your own needs as you go along here.. again, you may think you live in a more perfect world and that you're some kind of rebel to be someone's hero for, but you're not. What you are is ill informed of the law.

Theft does not only apply to things you can touch and hold in your hand. OUR LAWS have established that intellectual property is able to be stolen as well. You're SERIOUSLY reaching here to try to make your point some how seem logical. But, in short, you're wrong.

The theft here is viewing the product with out paying for it. The "theft" may not be anything you can take with you, but it's what you failed to LEAVE BEHIND, which was your cover, your toll, your money in short.

So in your mind it must also be okay to cross a bridge with out paying a toll (I'd love to see you try that one) or to enter into an amusement park by crashing the gate (I suppose that's not theft either) or going into a rock concert with out paying.. also, I DARE you to try and get on an airplane with out paying for the ticket. PLEASE try that one.

So with the above examples which equate to our favorite topic here, tell me how any of the above is illegal while watching a movie with out paying for it is not?

It's called getting a service with out paying for it.. or in simple terms, it's trade... only YOU failed to trade.

Again as I said, time to grow up and move out of mom's basement and get with the rest of the world.

There is, however, two thoughts mixed up into one here.. Taking a movie with out paying for it is theft.. don't care how you try to skew it up to support your own f'd up way of thinking... but on the other hand there is a consumer backlash against the entertainment industry that feels that the price of movies or how they are sold and able to be used is a problem.. and in some parts I agree.

Movies are not over priced.. $8 to see a movie is nothing.. and please stop blaming hollywood for the price of a bucket of popcorn and medium drink being $14 - that's your theater, not Hollywood. As for the price of a DVD or Bluray movie, sure the prices may be high, but again you're not entitled to be entertained at a bargain price.. so don't' buy them. People say that hollywood charges too much and squanders in the face of the people.. introducing YouTube.. people have an ability to produce their own stuff.. I rarely today see people investing millions into producing top quality movies, and if they, or you, did, I"m sure you'd understand the point behind hollywood's battle against priates..

However, once I purchase a movie, it should be mine to use how I want in my own home - and that's where it ends.. in my home. It's still not mine to put on the internet.. but I should be able to stream it to myself anywhere I am and it's none of their business.. The problem is that people, such as yourself, can't respect that and stop there.. so here we are.

The more you guys try to push this idea, the more they're going to come back with PIPA and SOPA..

... YOU and your kind are to thank for this. Applaud yourself.

And do yourself a favor and please, don't ever try to use reverse psychology on me with your brand of logic because it makes me sick. I don't subscribe to your logic or theories.. so spare me the "so then X must be okay in your opinion".. I make no bones about it so you have no need to try to twist my opinions to prove my own thoughts wrong.. I am against theft, plain and simple. When I want a movie, I buy it. When I want a song, I buy it.. I don't go on line and steal it. If everyone believed as you, then there would be no entertainment industry for you to steal from anymore. got it? But I'm sure in your mind it's okay because there are still enough suckers out there paying,... so you don't have to.

Plain and simple, you're and those like you are thieves..

Excuse me by why are you saying all this stuff to ME? Seriously why are you bashing ME? I'm anti-pirate if you actually READ what I wrote.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

Me thinks I hit reply to the wrong part of the threat.. my mistake.. sorry B.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to fiberguy2

Member

to fiberguy2
"... YOU and your kind are to thank for this. Applaud yourself."

Are you even reading my posts? WHERE did I ever say that I was downloading content? WHERE did I endorse it? You keep saying that I am downloading content when I am not. You keep accusing me of using bittorrent or getting content through other illegal means.

At no time did I say that I was doing anything of the such. Those were examples (remember the pesky word "IF") that lead up to my statement that the stats given by both sides are pretty much bullshit.
talz13
join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

talz13 to fiberguy2

Member

to fiberguy2
said by fiberguy2:

Movies are not over priced.. $8 to see a movie is nothing.. and please stop blaming hollywood for the price of a bucket of popcorn and medium drink being $14 - that's your theater, not Hollywood.

Well, at least on that part, Hollywood can be to blame because they do not share enough profit from the new releases with the theaters that they are shown in. I think the business model is something like, initially almost all of the money goes to Hollywood, and as time goes on more of the money goes to the theater (usually around the time that everybody who wanted to see the movie has already seen it). So the theaters have to charge high prices for concessions just to cover the costs of staying in business, since they're not making any money selling those overpriced tickets.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to fiberguy2

Member

to fiberguy2
I don't recall saying I was downloading movies. I don't go to very many movies and I don't buy very many new blue ray or dvds. Most of the stuff I buy is from a local used book store that sells used books, cds, movies, and games. I don't have to have everything the day of release.

It appears as if you are too smart to understand the meaning of the word "IF". So let me help you first with this link.

»dictionary.reference.com ··· rowse/if

Now once you have reviewed that link and you have a better understanding of the word "IF" let me explain what I said.

"I said IF (remember the above link) I download a move and I don't intend to pay for it at the box office then they lose nothing."

They don't. No one took any money from the bank account of the movie studio and if I never intended to go to that movie they still didn't make or loose any money.

"If (again reference the above link) I download a movie instead of going then they loose money."

In this case they certainly loose money because I downloaded a movie that I would be willing to pay for at the theater but I decided to go cheap and just down load it.

"In either case how can either side track this? They can't."

They can't. The studios can't track this accurately. Any number they come up with is a guess. The torrent crowd can't come up with accurate numbers either. Anything they claim is also a guess.

Both sides are crooks.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer

Premium Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

quote:
In this case they certainly loose money because I downloaded a movie that I would be willing to pay for at the theater but I decided to go cheap and just down load it.

There is a logical difference here that the RIAA/MPAA exploits to the max. Losing something implies that you had it at one time and now you don't. That is not what is happening. What is happening is they are failing to make as much as they wanted/expected to make.

Not making what you wanted does not = losing
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

I agree with you on many levels that the arguments made by the RIAA and MPAA is off and dis-genuine. They demonstrate that they're not competent at running a business, or an industry for that matter. (And contrary to popular belief, THEY are not "the industry".. they just represent a good portion of it.. they're just PART of an "industry" at best)

One thing I won't budge on is theft.. taking a product or service with out paying for it and snubbing one's nose at the law in this case is theft and I don't think anyone here can say they are not aware that laws exists. But with that said, .....

The music industry is upset they aren't making the money they'd like, but they fail to see why and state the truth.

They say that 750,000 jobs are lost due to theft and piracy which with out even doing any research on this matter is false. They never state where these jobs are lost, for one. And second they forget that they're actually making more movies today than they were even 20 years ago,.. yet they're losing jobs? That's pure FUD.

Movie attendance is down especially these days for a few reasons, but the uber rich can never see this fact. (Many rich people are out of touch these days and I see it in real life experience on a daily basis. The economy sucks right now! It's not the price of a ticket alone that is the reason, per say, but the price of the snacks which people equate to the over all cost of a movie - so they don't go. Theater tickets can be had anywhere from$5 for a matinee up to $15 depending on the theater and experience but the average ticket cost is about $9.00 for adults. It's not a huge deal breaker for many.. but introducing the home theater.

People are waiting for movies to come out on DVD and BR.. more people, especially who are too busy these days busting their butts to make the money to spend, aren't necessarily in a hurry to rush to a theater to see a movie any more. They'd rather buy the DVD or such for about $20 and stay at home and watch it.. There's nothing wrong with this.. it's just another step in evolution. Home movie experience is much better today than 20 years ago.

Movie actors are running out of control with their pay requirements... Tom Cruise anyone?? The spoiled brat expects WAY too much money for putting on his little plays than what most people think is reasonable.. that eats up a HUGE chunk of the profit that hollywood wants to make.. when the revenue falls, hollywood once again turns to the argument that theft is "the cause of loss revenue".. it's a dis-genuine argument to be made, backed by propaganda to make people believe it's a valid point. THIS is where I have my issues.

Next comes the people themselves... there are too many IDIOTS (we call them sheep) who blindly idolize these actors because they're something special and can't be bothered with little things like facts as to how these wonderful people are a major cause as to why they can't stream movies easily at home, or pay as much as they do for the DVDs and so on. Anyone who's been on facebook as can whitness as stupid post with no substance get thousands of likes followed by thousands of replies of "I love you" and "you're awesome!" and "I want your baby" should tell you what I'm talking about.. people just can't be bothered to be informed.

But, being informed has nothing to do with trying to put a legitimate face on piracy either. The way you change an industry is to stand up against what you don't believe in and not patronize it.. you exercise your right not to patronize something. However, people feel that entertainment is about on the same line as a public utility and that they have a right to have it, when they don't.

The two AAs can't adapt to the change in our evolutionary ways so instead of embracing it and innovating to meet the requests of their customers, the old dinosaur executives continue to think that their 1950's logic will win in the end, and when it doesn't they can manipulate the market with congress which only pisses people off.

Amazon has the right theory working for them with their prime streaming service. I am a member of prime for $79 a year.. I LOVE the free 2 day shipping and $3.99 over night service which wins my business.. I love the streaming as a perk. They aren't too blind to look past a single profit center to realize that prime video benefits them in their retail side to see that the loss they take on the streaming video is more than made up in their retail.. so they see it as a marketing expense. All too many executives have to have a profit in EVERY profit center, or it's a failure.. it's one of the biggest mistakes made in business today.

Hollywood just needs to encourage purchase and reward loyal customers (as amazon does, many times over) and they will win in the end.. and cut out the crap of trying to put leashes on people and take the FUN out of ENTERTAINMENT with their crap. People like me, for example, don't spend thousands of dollars on home entertainment equipment just to be told how I can and can't use it and later find the investment I made to be useless because some exec woke up and farted too hard one morning. I find it insulting because my income level doesn't allow me the freedom to throw thousands around like they do and not be insulted when my money is wasted because I, unlike many of them, bust my ass to make the money I do, while they can buy their profit off the backs of others...

In short, Hollywood needs to be proactive and change with the times and stop trying so hard to criminalize their own customers. There will always be thieves, but I don't see where they are losing billions like they say they are.. I'm not willing to give up my freedoms in this country because of some battle they have over the pond.. but I still respect the law which is why I don't steal.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer

Premium Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

I agree with most of what you said., though I don't have any beef with the industry beyond their 'tactics'. You won't budge on theft... thats fine; you are entitled to your opinion as am I. One thing I will mention though is that in your model, it is the use of the content without payment that constitutes theft. This is not reality, none of the laws are actually against THAT. As an easy demonstration, if I borrow a DVD from a friend, I can watch the movie without paying anyone anything yet no theft has occurred. So it is actually not the viewing of the content that constitutes anything 'wrong'. Of course your rebuttal would be that my friend paid for the DVD so there is no theft. That bypasses the point that I watched the movie without paying. As soon as you allow the sharing of a DVD with a friend (or two or ten), you encounter the logical problem that the sharing method is really immaterial to the fact that the content is being legally shared. It is simply not as cut-and-dry theft as people claim it to be.
quote:
The way you change an industry is to stand up against what you don't believe in and not patronize it.

Yes, that is one way. Snubbing one's nose at the law is another very well documented way to get things changed. Especially when that law is the only thing that allows the business with an outdated model to continue.

Ultimately, what the consumers want is instant access to the voluminous content. This is easy to accomplish but the industry is refusing to listen. Consumer demand is what drives the free market and dictates what products the corporations make. Unfortunately, the corporations in this case think it is the other way around. Only by continuing to demonstrate the 'proper' product to industry (whether legally or illegally) will they finally realize that THAT is where the money is.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin to fiberguy2

Member

to fiberguy2
Your ranting makes rush Limbaugh seem well behaved.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

said by sonicmerlin:

Your ranting makes rush Limbaugh seem well behaved.

Oh, I'm terribly sorry that I was raised with morals and that I don't spend my time trying to find ways to tear down a society over a fucking movie that people feel entitled to. Society isn't important.. so please,.. I'll stand aside while the hackers around here enjoy finding new ways to convince themselves they're right on their skewed views.

Seriously...
fiberguy2

fiberguy2 to battleop

Premium Member

to battleop
How is the music/movie industry crooks for offering a product for sale? You make no sense.. not in this particular case.

And still, define "if" all you want.. and I'm far more intelligent than you give me credit for to know what I'm talking about. Your entire point blows up when you say "they're losing nothing IF i never INTENDED ON PAYING FOR IT"... where they lost is when you GOT BENEFIT OF VIEWING IT, with out paying for it.. that's the point you, and many miss.

I don't hurt the airlines when I hop on a plane for free, you know, because I never intended on paying for it in the first place.. but IF i had INTENDED ON PAYING FOR IT, then they'd experience a loss. They LOST when I sat my ass in a seat with out paying for it.. then again, that would never happen because, you know, those evil airlines are using the government resources and tax payer money to enforce what equates to a private industry.. the same as the entertainment industry is.

"IF" as you focus your entire point, doesn't work here... in fact it just makes you look completely uneducated, and I know from your other posts that you're better than that.

Yes, they can't monetize their losses.. it's a WELL KNOWN FACT that courts have a hard time monetizing future losses and often can't, don't, or simply won't award for that. This is a whole other issue. Hollywood's losses are real, but I don't think piracy, while wrong, is where there losses are. Their business model is out of the 80's while we've all moved on to the '10's... they need to catch up and they can realize their business model will stop suffering. They can't stop all piracy but they CAN make their customers happy and encourage more people to buy.. then they can sell less to make more money.. it's called streamlining - every business that survives today has to do the same in order to survive. Those who don't decline and that's where the entertainment giants are today.

But IF, as you focus on here, is failing to make your point.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to battleop

Member

to battleop
said by battleop:

If I down load a movie and don't intend to pay for it at the box office then they lose nothing.

What gives one the right to view content you don't intend on paying for?

The pro-pirate people say downloading isn't stealing since you're not taking anything away. Using that logic I can sneak into a movie theater without paying since I'm not actually stealing anything and I never intended to pay for the movie no matter what so that makes it ok.

Xioden
Premium Member
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY

Xioden

Premium Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

said by 88615298:

The pro-pirate people say downloading isn't stealing since you're not taking anything away. Using that logic I can sneak into a movie theater without paying since I'm not actually stealing anything and I never intended to pay for the movie no matter what so that makes it ok.

That would be trespassing, not theft.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

said by Xioden:

said by 88615298:

The pro-pirate people say downloading isn't stealing since you're not taking anything away. Using that logic I can sneak into a movie theater without paying since I'm not actually stealing anything and I never intended to pay for the movie no matter what so that makes it ok.

That would be trespassing, not theft.

So what it's stil not right. Which part of that hall I color in crayon?

battleop
join:2005-09-28
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I never said anyone had a right to it. I only questioned the bullshit statics that both sides come up with. The studios over inflate the amount of money lost IF I download and watch a movie. At most they lose the face value of the ticket I didn't buy. Not the $1,000 they claim.

"I can sneak into a movie theater without paying"

If they call the cops are they going to charge you with theft or trespassing?
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

said by battleop:

I never said anyone had a right to it. I only questioned the bullshit statics that both sides come up with. The studios over inflate the amount of money lost IF I download and watch a movie. At most they lose the face value of the ticket I didn't buy. Not the $1,000 they claim.

"I can sneak into a movie theater without paying"

If they call the cops are they going to charge you with theft or trespassing?

If you illegally download you aren't going to get charged with theft either you get charged with copyright infringement.

The point is watching a movie at a theater without paying is wrong. So how is downloading a movie without paying not also wrong? It's the same thing.

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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK

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While it doesn't make it "ok", it doesn't cost them anything, unless you prevented someone else from getting a seat, so they didn't "lose" money they never had.

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sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

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said by 88615298:

said by battleop:

If I down load a movie and don't intend to pay for it at the box office then they lose nothing.

What gives one the right to view content you don't intend on paying for?

The pro-pirate people say downloading isn't stealing since you're not taking anything away. Using that logic I can sneak into a movie theater without paying since I'm not actually stealing anything and I never intended to pay for the movie no matter what so that makes it ok.

In the end no one cares what you think, and unless you're a direct descendant of God or secretly a master of the universe your morality is your own.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
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join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: BitTorrent Piracy Doesn146;t Affect US Box Office Returns

No one cares what he thinks? .. you've clearly never heard of "society" have you?

jkj860
The Final Frontier
join:2002-01-10
Valparaiso, IN

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said by battleop:

If I down load a movie and don't intend to pay for it at the box office then they lose nothing. If I download a movie instead of going then they loose money. In either case how can either side track this? They can't.

I dont know how they could track it but I am sure that they are losing money from people not going to the theaters to pay to view it or buying the movie and instead watching it for free. To me it seems a bit like looting.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
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Mullica Hill, NJ

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Both sides pile on their own flavor of BS.

the Difference is the MAFIAA costs me money because they use their congress critters to help them which is wasting tax dollars.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
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NYC

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I think the point is that moviegoers would rather go to the theater and watch the movie on the big screen than download a crappy cam version and watch it on their TV. There exists a viable product at a reasonable price, so they keep customers.

The real-life problem with your 'just one person' theory is that the actual act of someone downloading the movie then failing to pay to go see it is completely undetectable. When I say undetectable, I don't mean easy to get away with... I mean there is no noticable change that the movie company can tick off and say 'we lost another one' like you can do with a physical product. The only way to infer this is happening is by a noticable reduction in box office receipts. If there is no noticable reduction, as this study suggests (a la my first paragraph), then it is not affecting the take.

DataRiker
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As far as I'm concerned digital piracy is a market correction.

Not even a good one at that. Movie stars still make millions of dollars so Hollywood can't be hurting too much.

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davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

davidhoffman

Premium Member

Korea Telecom to restrict Samsung smart televisions

Same nonsense we have here in the USA. How is it that the 3D HDTV bits coming from your servers are OK, but the same bit rate 3D HDTV content from her servers is not OK? But this would be a great justification for per byte billing, correct? No, it is a great justification for QoS at the node or DSLAM. Throttle the smart television using accounts down to 1/8 speed as needed to reduce congestion.

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skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium Member
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170

skeechan

Premium Member

KT traffic shaping

That is what happens when ISPs also compete in the video business. This has nothing to do with traffic and everything to do with protecting their digital TV revenues.

If KT, or their US counterparts for that matter, weren't in the video business you can bet your ass they would be running wide open to draw in customers, using 3rd party video as an example of what you can do with their service. But alas, you gotta keep that $75/mo for little more than filler channels and $5 VOD rental business going and that is hard to do when you actually have competition.

dellsweig
Extreme Aerobatics
MVM
join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY

dellsweig

MVM

Carrier support bake-off

Would have loved to read this but after two screens of Flash ads I could not dismiss I closed the tab.....

Not een a close 'x' on this one