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bruce
Anon
2012-Mar-7 8:27 am
judge judyto bad this wasnt on judge judy |
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FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2012-Mar-7 8:36 am
Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appealIn any case, it doesn't show anything about how he will go about dealing with an AT&T appeal of his small claims court win.
Looks less like a site to help you win in court than it does as a sales pitch for a poker chip customizer kit.
A better strategy - force AT&T to go to arbitration. You have a better chance there(no matter how small) than you do in winning against AT&T when they appeal a small claims court loss. |
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ptrowskiGot Helix? Premium Member join:2005-03-14 Woodstock, CT
2 recommendations |
ptrowski
Premium Member
2012-Mar-7 8:47 am
Force them into arbitration? Are you crazy? |
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cdruGo Colts MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN
1 recommendation |
to FFH5
said by FFH5:Looks less like a site to help you win in court than it does as a sales pitch for a poker chip customizer kit. Good grief. He has two banners, one of which isn't all that big at the top. And they are from a friend's business that get gets a cut of each sale to help with his defense fund (or at least so he says). So he's not a web designer creating a fancy webpage. At least it loads fast so you don't go over your wireless cap. |
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kaila join:2000-10-11 Lincolnshire, IL |
to FFH5
Let them appeal and spend a dollar to defend a nickel. Which is likely somewhere near a lifetime of revenue of an average customer. |
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pende_tim Premium Member join:2004-01-04 Selbyville, DE |
Appeal?For some reason I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that small claims decisions were not subject to appeal. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2012-Mar-7 9:10 am
said by pende_tim:For some reason I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that small claims decisions were not subject to appeal. In California it is not only subject to appeal but the "appeal" is a new trial outright, albeit with lawyers this time around. » courts.ca.gov/1072.htmSeems kinda dumb to me, I always thought appeals courts should be in the business of deciding whether or not the lower courts followed proper process and nothing more. My guess is that the original plaintiff in this case will try to argue that AT&T is appealing simply to encourage him to abandon the case (the section entitled "The Judge's Decision") |
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openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
to kaila
Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appealAT&T is paying its legal team anyway, might as well employ the lawyers to establish a precedent. |
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vpoko Premium Member join:2003-07-03 Boston, MA |
vpoko
Premium Member
2012-Mar-7 9:36 am
There's no precedent, an appeal would usually be a trial de novo in front of a low-level trial court (in MA, the state district court), not an actual appeals court that issues precedent-setting opinions. |
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vpoko |
vpoko to FFH5
Premium Member
2012-Mar-7 9:44 am
to FFH5
said by FFH5:A better strategy - force AT&T to go to arbitration. You have a better chance there(no matter how small) than you do in winning against AT&T when they appeal a small claims court loss. That's terrible advice and the only people who would give it are you and AT&T. His "appeal" (actually a new trial) would consist of presenting the same evidence he already presented and won once with. |
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openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144
1 recommendation |
to vpoko
Yes, and with a new judge, new court, and new defense, the opportunity to establish a ruling in AT&T's favor increases. What other reason is there for AT&T to appeal a $850 judgement? |
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Most states do not easily grant appeals for small claims court. I believe California is one of maybe 3 (?) states that guarantees an appeal.
In fact California's defacto appeal means the new trial will likely proceed just like the last one as ATT was not required to show any error in order to get the new trial. |
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DataRiker |
to pende_tim
Re: Appeal?said by pende_tim:For some reason I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that small claims decisions were not subject to appeal. California and I think 2 other states will grant an appeal for any reason. I believe most states you must show an obvious error in order to even be considered for appeal. Even then its not usually granted. |
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vpoko Premium Member join:2003-07-03 Boston, MA |
to DataRiker
Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appealI know MA gives the losing party appeal-by-right. |
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openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144
1 recommendation |
to DataRiker
That doesn't answer my question regarding AT&T's motivation to appeal a $850 judgement if it isn't to change the ruling and start putting a lid of other potential litigation. |
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BiggA Premium Member join:2005-11-23 Central CT |
BiggA
Premium Member
2012-Mar-7 10:31 am
AT&T will win appealBecause the customer is wrong. He signed the contract that is crystal clear, and allow AT&T to throttle the service when they believe that his use is impacting their network. |
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vpoko Premium Member join:2003-07-03 Boston, MA |
to openbox9
Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appealThe motivation is they have a chance to save $850. They'll prevail on appeal in some cases, and lose on others, so overall they will pay less than if they just let the original judgements stand. Unless is goes up to a higher court (at that court's discretion), we're not going to see binding precedent. |
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to openbox9
said by openbox9:That doesn't answer my question regarding AT&T's motivation to appeal a $850 judgement if it isn't to change the ruling and start putting a lid of other potential litigation. Its not overly obvious? Its to make collecting money from a judgement as long and tiresome as possible. Luckily my state doesn't grant defacto appeals so its not an issue. Small Claims court is fast and easy here as well. |
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openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2012-Mar-7 10:42 am
It is obvious and that's kind of my point |
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ptrowskiGot Helix? Premium Member join:2005-03-14 Woodstock, CT |
to BiggA
Re: AT&T will win appealI can believe in many things like Santa Claus but without proof.... |
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intellerSociopaths always win. join:2003-12-08 Tulsa, OK |
to BiggA
they will be required to quantify his impact on the network as proof....good luck doing that. |
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to openbox9
Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appealNever underestimate the court of public opinion. |
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elray join:2000-12-16 Santa Monica, CA |
to pnh102
Re: Appeal?said by pnh102:said by pende_tim:For some reason I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that small claims decisions were not subject to appeal. In California it is not only subject to appeal but the "appeal" is a new trial outright, albeit with lawyers this time around. Which means the "winner" will have to shell out big bucks for his new counsel, unless he's lucky enough as a cause celebre to attract an ambulance-chasing populist to take the case. Be careful what you wish for. |
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Anon e mouse to BiggA
Anon
2012-Mar-7 11:59 am
to BiggA
Re: AT&T will *NOT* win appealNo they didn't. That *contract* change occurred after the fact. One of those "if you continue to use the service, you agreed to the terms we never showed you" things. |
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dabble531 to kaila
Anon
2012-Mar-7 12:10 pm
to kaila
Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appealThey need to appeal (from a business perspective - not that I support AT&T) because if they don't, they leave themselves open to the same deal (or a class action suit) from everyone that has the "unlimited" package. I.e., it's not just a nickel (or $850), but $850 * 10's if not 100's of thousands....so appealing against a possible (probable?) future cost of millions makes sense. |
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tonyp to BiggA
Anon
2012-Mar-7 12:56 pm
to BiggA
Re: AT&T will win appealIn his interview one key point that helped him win the case was that he was being throttled at 1.5 Gbytes which is way low. I understand if he was being throttled at 5 Gbytes but 1.5 is outrageous. They also throttled him differently every month. |
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1 recommendation |
to dabble531
Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appealThey don't "need" to appeal, they need to stop being a shitty company. |
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Oxygen69 Premium Member join:2008-12-08 Madison, WI |
Oxygen69
Premium Member
2012-Mar-7 2:09 pm
Any "Resonable Man"/person argument.Personally, I think people could get VERY far legally with AT&T by using the "Reasonable Man" argument/assumption in contract law.
-How any reasonable man or person would read their contract and would view what the company is going to do, when they use the wording "Unlimited" is how the decision would be made.
I think any reasonable person would read "unlimited" as NOT being limited in any way! By those definitions and the fact that it is small claims, the plaintiff (guy winning $850) is not bound to show or know, absolute precedent to win the case. That is why small claims courts are not Precedent setting. (legally speaking) As long as he has a "reasonable argument" anyone can win in small claims court unless the defendant can actually bring precedent to overrule certain arguments.. Even so, small claims, tends to make the legal system less intimidating for the "Layman. And side with the smaller party (manytimes). |
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Xioden Premium Member join:2008-06-10 Monticello, NY |
to vpoko
Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appealThey'll be pushing the binding arbitration clause in the contracts to get it thrown out of court during the appeals.
After that they just have to cite that one verdict to anyone else who tries in small claims court and they save themselves a lot of money, and get to keep the "unlimited" cash cow going strong. |
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criggs join:2000-07-14 New York, NY |
criggs
Member
2012-Mar-7 2:35 pm
Challenging A Company's Contract ViolationsThis is a fascinating case. I believe I may be on the verge of a similar situation with regard to Sprint. If interested, check out my new thread on the matter in the Sprint forum, at » Sprint's Bait and Switch on Unlimited 4G Mobile Broadband . |
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