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Comments on news posted 2012-03-07 08:18:54: AT&T may have modified their throttling practices, but they still face a legal threat from users angry about the company's definition of "unlimited. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


bruce

@charter.com

judge judy

to bad this wasnt on judge judy


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appeal

In any case, it doesn't show anything about how he will go about dealing with an AT&T appeal of his small claims court win.

Looks less like a site to help you win in court than it does as a sales pitch for a poker chip customizer kit.

A better strategy - force AT&T to go to arbitration. You have a better chance there(no matter how small) than you do in winning against AT&T when they appeal a small claims court loss.
--
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
»www.politico.com/2012-election/



ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4

2 recommendations

Force them into arbitration? Are you crazy?


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

1 recommendation

reply to FFH5
said by FFH5:

Looks less like a site to help you win in court than it does as a sales pitch for a poker chip customizer kit.

Good grief. He has two banners, one of which isn't all that big at the top. And they are from a friend's business that get gets a cut of each sale to help with his defense fund (or at least so he says). So he's not a web designer creating a fancy webpage. At least it loads fast so you don't go over your wireless cap.

kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
reply to FFH5
Let them appeal and spend a dollar to defend a nickel. Which is likely somewhere near a lifetime of revenue of an average customer.
--
Jeff Howe
Jeff's Blog - »www.ostjournal.net


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1

Appeal?

For some reason I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that small claims decisions were not subject to appeal.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
said by pende_tim:

For some reason I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that small claims decisions were not subject to appeal.

In California it is not only subject to appeal but the "appeal" is a new trial outright, albeit with lawyers this time around.

»courts.ca.gov/1072.htm

Seems kinda dumb to me, I always thought appeals courts should be in the business of deciding whether or not the lower courts followed proper process and nothing more.

My guess is that the original plaintiff in this case will try to argue that AT&T is appealing simply to encourage him to abandon the case (the section entitled "The Judge's Decision")
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to kaila

Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appeal

AT&T is paying its legal team anyway, might as well employ the lawyers to establish a precedent.


vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA
There's no precedent, an appeal would usually be a trial de novo in front of a low-level trial court (in MA, the state district court), not an actual appeals court that issues precedent-setting opinions.


vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA
reply to FFH5
said by FFH5:

A better strategy - force AT&T to go to arbitration. You have a better chance there(no matter how small) than you do in winning against AT&T when they appeal a small claims court loss.

That's terrible advice and the only people who would give it are you and AT&T. His "appeal" (actually a new trial) would consist of presenting the same evidence he already presented and won once with.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to vpoko
Yes, and with a new judge, new court, and new defense, the opportunity to establish a ruling in AT&T's favor increases. What other reason is there for AT&T to appeal a $850 judgement?


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
Most states do not easily grant appeals for small claims court. I believe California is one of maybe 3 (?) states that guarantees an appeal.

In fact California's defacto appeal means the new trial will likely proceed just like the last one as ATT was not required to show any error in order to get the new trial.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to pende_tim

Re: Appeal?

said by pende_tim:

For some reason I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that small claims decisions were not subject to appeal.



California and I think 2 other states will grant an appeal for any reason.

I believe most states you must show an obvious error in order to even be considered for appeal. Even then its not usually granted.


vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA
reply to DataRiker

Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appeal

I know MA gives the losing party appeal-by-right.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to DataRiker
That doesn't answer my question regarding AT&T's motivation to appeal a $850 judgement if it isn't to change the ruling and start putting a lid of other potential litigation.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

AT&T will win appeal

Because the customer is wrong. He signed the contract that is crystal clear, and allow AT&T to throttle the service when they believe that his use is impacting their network.


vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA
reply to openbox9

Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appeal

The motivation is they have a chance to save $850. They'll prevail on appeal in some cases, and lose on others, so overall they will pay less than if they just let the original judgements stand. Unless is goes up to a higher court (at that court's discretion), we're not going to see binding precedent.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:

That doesn't answer my question regarding AT&T's motivation to appeal a $850 judgement if it isn't to change the ruling and start putting a lid of other potential litigation.

Its not overly obvious? Its to make collecting money from a judgement as long and tiresome as possible.

Luckily my state doesn't grant defacto appeals so its not an issue. Small Claims court is fast and easy here as well.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
It is obvious and that's kind of my point


ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4
reply to BiggA

Re: AT&T will win appeal

I can believe in many things like Santa Claus but without proof....


inteller
Sociopaths always win.

join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
reply to BiggA
they will be required to quantify his impact on the network as proof....good luck doing that.
--
"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!"

wkm001

join:2009-12-14
reply to openbox9

Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appeal

Never underestimate the court of public opinion.

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to pnh102

Re: Appeal?

said by pnh102:

said by pende_tim:

For some reason I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that small claims decisions were not subject to appeal.

In California it is not only subject to appeal but the "appeal" is a new trial outright, albeit with lawyers this time around.

Which means the "winner" will have to shell out big bucks for his new counsel, unless he's lucky enough as a cause celebre to attract an ambulance-chasing populist to take the case.

Be careful what you wish for.


Anon e mouse

@mmc.com
reply to BiggA

Re: AT&T will *NOT* win appeal

No they didn't. That *contract* change occurred after the fact.
One of those "if you continue to use the service, you agreed to the terms we never showed you" things.


dabble531

@comcast.net
reply to kaila

Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appeal

They need to appeal (from a business perspective - not that I support AT&T) because if they don't, they leave themselves open to the same deal (or a class action suit) from everyone that has the "unlimited" package. I.e., it's not just a nickel (or $850), but $850 * 10's if not 100's of thousands....so appealing against a possible (probable?) future cost of millions makes sense.


tonyp

@photosonics.com
reply to BiggA

Re: AT&T will win appeal

In his interview one key point that helped him win the case was that he was being throttled at 1.5 Gbytes which is way low. I understand if he was being throttled at 5 Gbytes but 1.5 is outrageous. They also throttled him differently every month.


Rambo76098

join:2003-02-21
Columbus, OH

1 recommendation

reply to dabble531

Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appeal

They don't "need" to appeal, they need to stop being a shitty company.

Oxygen69
Premium
join:2008-12-08
Madison, WI

Any "Resonable Man"/person argument.

Personally, I think people could get VERY far legally with AT&T by using the "Reasonable Man" argument/assumption in contract law.

-How any reasonable man or person would read their contract and would view what the company is going to do, when they use the wording "Unlimited" is how the decision would be made.

I think any reasonable person would read "unlimited" as NOT being limited in any way! By those definitions and the fact that it is small claims, the plaintiff (guy winning $850) is not bound to show or know, absolute precedent to win the case. That is why small claims courts are not Precedent setting. (legally speaking) As long as he has a "reasonable argument" anyone can win in small claims court unless the defendant can actually bring precedent to overrule certain arguments.. Even so, small claims, tends to make the legal system less intimidating for the "Layman. And side with the smaller party (manytimes).


Xioden
Premium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1
reply to vpoko

Re: Shows small claims court info; not deal with AT&T appeal

They'll be pushing the binding arbitration clause in the contracts to get it thrown out of court during the appeals.

After that they just have to cite that one verdict to anyone else who tries in small claims court and they save themselves a lot of money, and get to keep the "unlimited" cash cow going strong.

criggs

join:2000-07-14
New York, NY
Reviews:
·Millenicom

Challenging A Company's Contract Violations

This is a fascinating case. I believe I may be on the verge of a similar situation with regard to Sprint. If interested, check out my new thread on the matter in the Sprint forum, at »Sprint's Bait and Switch on Unlimited 4G Mobile Broadband .