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Comments on news posted 2012-03-21 12:52:05: Just about two years ago the FCC introduced our first ever national broadband plan. While designed to appear comprehensive and ambitious, I noted at the time that beyond the chocolate-flavored exterior lay a very hollow project. ..

25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

1 recommendation

Gov't FTTH

and lets assume; that you think the FCC should strip the current providers of their network and create an FTTH network at the cost of my tax money?

We have companies that compete and companies that will keep expanding. Just because we don't have a national FTTH network thanks to our Gov't doesn't mean we don't have anything.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

Re: Gov't FTTH

What ISPs are competing? Prices are still rising. I don't think competition is occurring when that happens.

PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

Re: Gov't FTTH

Oh, I've got excellent competition in my neighborhood! Comcast, Comcast, linksys, and Comcast!
flashcore

join:2007-01-23
united state

Re: Gov't FTTH

I also have excellent competition in my neighborhood, Comcast linksys and FiOS. The only reasonably priced option is linksys (Free), the others the price goes up year after year with no end in sight but FiOS is still the better paid value for Internet.
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
ya and so does the cost of milk but you don't see anyone asking the gov't to step in about that.
Telco

join:2008-12-19

Re: Gov't FTTH

Does the Republican party have a team of idiots they send out to every board to post simplistic hyperbolic nonsense?

chazpaw
Premium
join:2007-03-28
Terrell, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: Gov't FTTH

said by Telco:

Does the Republican party have a team of idiots they send out to every board to post simplistic hyperbolic nonsense?

Yes

ArlynMosey

@ProcesosIRC.org
Well, you wouldn't have to build a national FTTH network to start addressing the problems. You could start by not letting ISPs buy state-level laws prohibiting towns and cities from wiring themselves. You could focus on getting open access fiber builds up and running in real problem areas using a combination of public/private funds and then allowing ISPs to layer in and compete. You could work on political reform to stop lobbyists from buying Congress. You could stop subsidizing mega-carriers for doing nothing. There's a universe of real reform that could happen, none of which actually is.
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

Re: Gov't FTTH

what problems? You have choices for broadband; Lets see; Comcast TWC, WOW! RCN, Cablevision, ViaSat, U-Versee/ATT, and many other indies that this site is always raving about- Sonic.net where they're pulling a Sprint and trying to build 2 networks.

And Cities should NOT wire themselves. They are there to PROTECT not to profit off people. Cities and towns go out and start shopping for bonds that takes YEARS AND YEARS to pay off and are STILL in debt. That bond money should be going to pay for services the people NEED that the city provides; maybe a new fire truck or 2, new police cars, new EMSes, should i go on?

And why should the gov't step in? Private companies fill the caps as needed and where needed. And people are free to start their own ISP.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Gov't FTTH

You really do have no clue.

Naming every ISP out there doesnt show competition. In virtually every single market you have 1 or 2 choices of actual broadband. If you are very lucky you may have 2 or 3.

Cities are there to serve their people the way the people want to be served. If they (the people) decide they want to put up Christmas lights on every house, tree, bush, and building in the city and and want the city to do and vote to approve it, then the city damn well better be putting Christmas lights up and figure out how to maintain it. In the same sense, if a city is not happy with the incumbents and the people want to have the city serve them broadband, then the city is obligated to serve them. THAT is the reason the are elected.

Now move along so the adults can talk.

chazpaw
Premium
join:2007-03-28
Terrell, TX

Re: Gov't FTTH

+1
slynerve

join:2011-04-11
said by 25139889:

and lets assume; that you think the FCC should strip the current providers of their network and create an FTTH network at the cost of my tax money?

We have companies that compete and companies that will keep expanding. Just because we don't have a national FTTH network thanks to our Gov't doesn't mean we don't have anything.

You don't want your tax dollars going to create thousands if not millions of jobs and being invested in a much needed infrastructure overhaul?

No one is saying to take away already grounded infrastructure. But the fact is that this country needs something and the telcos and cable companies are unwilling to provide it. What exactly do you suggest we do when they stack the deck in their favor and have almost an unlimited amount of money to throw into the fray?
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

Re: Gov't FTTH

yah the same as my tax money is going to pay for national rail system, and Amtrak which are worthless to people. Over priced services that we can get else where.

The gov't has NO business trying to be a business. And again; if you feel that the current businesses are NOT providing; go fill that gap and compete by starting your own company; the same as this country was built on and stop complaining about something that can be done about it.
slynerve

join:2011-04-11

1 edit

Re: Gov't FTTH

said by 25139889:

yah the same as my tax money is going to pay for national rail system, and Amtrak which are worthless to people. Over priced services that we can get else where.

The gov't has NO business trying to be a business. And again; if you feel that the current businesses are NOT providing; go fill that gap and compete by starting your own company; the same as this country was built on and stop complaining about something that can be done about it.

Please explain to me how this is a possibility when they incumbents forbid such things from happening. No, really, please. Tell me. I can't lease poles because cable has most of them tied up and reserved spaces for possible future expansions. I can't dig anywhere because telcos have the right to ground. So, again: what is someone to do when the deck is stacked and the dealer is crooked?

I also point out that the ISPs have bilked the government out of millions for rural broadband expansion and no one is angry at the thieves - the ISPs - but rather places blame on the people who were stole from - the government and American people. That's the definition of an inside job: they buy their men and women into the system and give themselves huge swaths of money at the expense of the people. But rather than changing this we just yell "FREE TRADE!" and elect people who will make it easier for them to do more of the same.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
Here we go.....

The go build your own network defense. LOL!
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric
Why does our government have no business in anything? Because faux news and Rush L says so? I do not think so.

It is the duty of our government to look out for the interests of 'We the People' first.

As per the Constitution, this includes collecting taxes and using them accordingly in order to do so.
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME
What Competition ?
Why are your Accounts Capped ?
Why are we seeing "Throttling" ?
Why are we charged a thousand times over per Gig of Extra Data we download ?

No the FCC is a joke.And our Government will not truly set things straight.They are all on the take and they all gladly take the Telcos Money.
FRAK YOU WASHINGTON !
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric

Re: Gov't FTTH

said by gorehound:

No the FCC is a joke.And our Government will not truly set things straight.They are all on the take and they all gladly take the Telcos Money.
FRAK YOU WASHINGTON !

FCC is not a joke, it's what you make it. The GOP has driven every and any government agency into the ground.

Why do you think there is significantly more competition in other big gov countries that were supposed to fail 50 years ago? Why do you think there are uniform wireless spectrum bands and cell phones cannot be locked down to one network? How about 5 to 10 broadband providers and wireless companies to choose from? Because they have consumer protection bodies like the one the GOP has killed and their government actually looks out for their citizens - 'We the People'.

Heck, why do you think GMO food is banned or must be indicated on the label in most other developed countries? Same deal with the pink slime used in our ground beef, where they do not even inform us of this.

No government means corporations and the few get to call the shots and that is indeed the America the Republicans want and envision.
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

Re: Gov't FTTH

Yes the FCC is a joke. It was created to protect the wireless spectrum for radio networks. NOT for phone services, nor for TV/Media and surely not for the Internet.

The FCC needs to go back to doing what it was created to do so and stay out o the business that it does NOT have any control over.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Gov't FTTH

I think it is time for you to do a little review and learn yourself before you continue spouting off and looking like a fool.

iamwhatiam

@verizon.net

Re: Gov't FTTH

I thought "spouting off and looking like a fool" was the primary job for shills. As such, he's doing an excellent job so far.

chazpaw
Premium
join:2007-03-28
Terrell, TX
LMAO@NWOhio
Telco

join:2008-12-19

1 edit
So you are implying that everyone should be able to broadcast on any frequency..

Do you have any idea about how wireless work???
wiid

join:2008-02-17
Outland
said by Telco:

FCC is not a joke, it's what you make it. The GOP has driven every and any government agency into the ground.

Why do you think there is significantly more competition in other big gov countries that were supposed to fail 50 years ago? Why do you think there are uniform wireless spectrum bands and cell phones cannot be locked down to one network? How about 5 to 10 broadband providers and wireless companies to choose from? Because they have consumer protection bodies like the one the GOP has killed and their government actually looks out for their citizens - 'We the People'.

Heck, why do you think GMO food is banned or must be indicated on the label in most other developed countries? Same deal with the pink slime used in our ground beef, where they do not even inform us of this.

No government means corporations and the few get to call the shots and that is indeed the America the Republicans want and envision.

Aside from unhelpful and erroneous partisan bashing. Do you have any suggestions for the party in power?

Regarding those countries that were supposed to fail ... Greece, Ireland, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Iceland??

Have you noted the economic stagnation in Japan? How about repression in China? Did you recently check the Canadian forums ISP reviews?

Did Denmarks or Spains windmill problems elude your notice? What black solid fossil fuel is Germany relying on for new power plants?

We have problems here, but much of our planet isn't doing much better.
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric

4 edits

Re: Gov't FTTH

said by wiid:

Aside from unhelpful and erroneous partisan bashing. Do you have any suggestions for the party in power?

Regarding those countries that were supposed to fail ... Greece, Ireland, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Iceland??

Have you noted the economic stagnation in Japan? How about repression in China? Did you recently check the Canadian forums ISP reviews?

Did Denmarks or Spains windmill problems elude your notice? What black solid fossil fuel is Germany relying on for new power plants?

We have problems here, but much of our planet isn't doing much better.

Ah yes, the knee-jerk cherry-picking of countries. I was thinking more along the lines of France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Netherlands, Belgium, Australia etc.

No partisan bashing at all, it's simply rehashing where the parties stand on these issues. The GOP would rather spend $750 Billion every year on defense than invest a single $1 on infrastructure, America, or Americans.

Actually, it's widely know outside Faux news that the reason Japan stagnated was because they pursued decade long austerity measures; similar to what is proposed by the GOP. Therefore, much like Greece, rather than growing they simply stagnated.

Just in case you have not noticed but the #2 economy in the world is now communist China. Have you seen the infrastructure in China? It makes a complete mockery out of every single Red State combined. Heck, find me one airport in America that comes even close to Beijing International.

The rest is just nonsense considering the sheer number of nations RWers label Big Government that have lower unemployment rates, lower deficits, a high quality of life, 1000 times newer and better infrastructure, and (on topic) 100MB/s broadband connections versus our 3MB DSL.

You also did not explain how it is that Big Government nations can have 5 to 10 broadband providers, whereas the majority of Americans typically have 1. 3MB DSL is not broadband, it's a joke.

In fact, the biggest government / high taxing nation of them all
has the second fastest speeds and once again, RWer rhetoric loses.

Then again why am I even talking with anyone who is a RWer about tech. The majority of innovation and tech mecca of America comes from the uber liberal San Fran area.
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
The FCC has NO control over the Internet time to move on.
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric

1 edit

Re: Gov't FTTH

said by 25139889:

The FCC has NO control over the Internet time to move on.

Um that's the problem.

cork1958
Cork
Premium
join:2000-02-26
said by gorehound:

What Competition ?
Why are your Accounts Capped ?
Why are we seeing "Throttling" ?
Why are we charged a thousand times over per Gig of Extra Data we download ?

No the FCC is a joke.And our Government will not truly set things straight.They are all on the take and they all gladly take the Telcos Money.
FRAK YOU WASHINGTON !

Not only is the FCC a joke, but this whole d**n country is pretty much one big joke anymore!!

Love that discussion above about anyone can go out and build their own ISP! Yeah, right!! Where did that wing nut come from?!!
--
The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
Was this a question and a statement or what?
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric
The Aussies have got it right on this front. Much like interstates, their Federal government is building a wholesale FTTH network, which any carrier can use to resell a service.

This is the ONLY way we will ever bring competition to America. With FIOS and Uverse roll-outs effectively over, the vast majority of Americans are stuck at the whims of monopolies.

On a side note, it's also just laughable to read about the 100MB/s services offered in France and then see how little they pay for it. Reaganites truly screwed us up and put us years behind the rest of the world.

Republicans appoint their cronies into key positions in the FCC, FDA, USDA etc and then hamper their ability to do anything. But hey, at least we waste more on defense than the next 17 nations combined. What an achievement, considering it also has the lowest ROI of any tax dollar spent.
wiid

join:2008-02-17
Outland

Re: Gov't FTTH

said by Telco See ProfileReaganites truly screwed us up and put us years behind the rest of the world.

Republicans appoint their cronies into key positions in the FCC, FDA, USDA etc and then hamper their ability to do anything. But hey, at least we waste more on defense than the next 17 nations combined. What an achievement, considering it also has the lowest ROhI of any tax dollar spent.

It must be different on your planet. On my planet Mr. Hope and Change runs the party that controls our FCC.

In my reality Reagan was president before the internet or FCC regulation of it.

•••••••
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
FiOS was over the minute it started being built. The uptake on it was over rated and anyone could have told you that they would have NEVER gotten the amount of customers that were projected anytime soon.

The same will happen with any other network. You going to force a customer to switch? I don't think so.

And the Aussies also owned that phone network some time. You try doing that in the US and see how fast the FCC and alike are not in court.

The USDA and the FDA do their jobs. That they were created for - the FCC does NOT and tries to do what ever they want until they're sued.
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric

1 edit

Re: Gov't FTTH

I thought you said we had lots of choice.

Therefore, we need a new agency that handles all forms of communication. One guess which party will totally oppose this? Hint: the idiot speaker is from your state.

By the way, the Aussies are building a brand new, from the ground on up, wholesale FTTH network.
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

the U.S. broadband plan is....

...to do what the incumbents want to do.

and what's the one thing incumbents absolutely do not want?

COMPETITION

ergo, there will be no competition unless we get a broadband plan that isn't dictated by the incumbents.

I predict this will not happen in my lifetime.

Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

1 recommendation

Forget public, private anything

The Government is not a business and everything they get involved with ends up twisted and corrupt. The ISP's would eat them alive.

•••••••

VerizonSlave

@mellon.com

3 Mbps DSL!?!

I would love to have 3 Mbps DSL as the best I can get is 1.02 Mbps DSL for $24/month! The monopolies need to go!
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

Re: 3 Mbps DSL!?!

you don't have one you have choices. Not anyones problem you choose not to use other services.
chomper87

join:2012-02-22
Clearwater, FL
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·CenturyLink
Who would like to pay for the infrastructure to get better internet? The government? You're DSL company?

Second question is do you want 3g/4g mobile internet?

You think it's so simple to upgrade the speed? Go out and do it. Go to the city and get authorization. Buy some fiber, and build you're own network.

If I'm Verizon, I've stopped my FiOS rollout because it's fairly expensive and my 3g/4g customer base is exploding so I'm putting more resources into that.

Sure monopolies are a problem. But this isn't something where I can just plop a CVS down across from a Walgreens. You really can't just go out and magically make a new Fiber ISP appear.

The Telco cables in my area are 25+ years old. But why would they replace them? Is the demand there? Obviously not.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

private businesses always work best

Lets start by privatizing all police forces in the USA. You "subscribe" to a "plan" for 911 responses. If you dont subscribe to a private police force, the number 911 on your phone will forward to the local army base, and if a foreign national is involved, the army will respond, if not, your out of luck. It was your choice to not buy protection.

•••
HiDesert

join:2008-08-17

Far from competitive

With our supreme court recently voting that corporations have person hood, or representation under the constitution like real living people; it puts legitimacy for the buying off of senators, spending millions to lobby etc.. Corrupt Oligopolies is what we have now. May be hard to prove, but definitely unwritten collusion is all over the wall.

In countries like France, one can get up to 100mb connections for far less then the states. Its what happens when you allow more competition into the mix. The fact is, under Pres. Reagan the Sherman antitrust act was thrown out. Corporations went to bed with the government and the consumer got screwed.
I'm sick of those that keep saying we have a free market. How is that free? When everything is slanted to benefit a tiny percentage. Nothing will change until the supreme court's ruling is overturned. Start enforcing the Sherman antitrust act once again and get big money out of politics.. That's a big order and probably won't happen until we have a total financial collapse like that of 1929. I'm pessimistic being the law makers are the ones that have to vote for change and they are the very ones benefiting from taking the money under the table. Only a complete meltdown of the financial markets would put pressure on the lawmakers to do the right thing. And that's exactly what they did in 1929.
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric

Re: Far from competitive

We have become a plutocratic oligarch nation, where our future is determined not by the people but whomever has been appointed to the SCOTUS and their political ideology.

In terms of getting screwed, it's no coincidence that during the 1929 Depression, 1987 recession, and now the devastating 2007 recession, congress was controlled by Republicans.

These people have always put lining the pockets of their masters over the best interests of America and 'We the People'.

MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

Not great

Competition went out a long time ago, in areas not upgraded to FIOS or U-verse, dsl is no match for cable they simply can't compete.
I probably have the best competition market wise available, we have cablevision or FIOS, and they seem to for the moment be keeping each other from going to capped internet, also the speed war FIOS and Cablevision plays helps the speeds we get, but they don't compete on the most important aspect price, with the exception of promotional pricing to lure subscribers away from each other.

I know it's not going to happen, the US being in the political climate where Verizon and AT&T have bought congress, but a national FIOS network that each company could offer services on would really level the playing field and create more competition, it's also simply a more efficient and effective way to deploy broadband nationwide.
chomper87

join:2012-02-22
Clearwater, FL
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·CenturyLink

Re: Not great

Who pays for this network? Who gets approval from the local towns to lay fiber?

Having 4 different communication lines from 4 different companies sprawled throughout the town. What does competition mean? 4 different lines going to my house?

That doesn't make sense.

LoudounVA

@exxonmobil.com

No Broadband Available

I'm one of the "non-Adopters", but not by choice.

I live in Loudoun county, Virginia - 50 miles from the White House. Broadband is not available in my neighborhood, as the 2 county providers, Comcast and verizon, choose to not wire my neighborhood. They both have agreements with the county that let them decide where to provide service and keep others from using the right-of-way for cabling. As a result, residents of third-world countries have better internet than I do. I drive my kids to a coffee shop to do their homework assignments that require internet.

What I want from the government to is remove and outlaw anything that restricts competition. No exclusive rights deals with government. No state laws preventing municipalities or cooperatives from providing broadband. No restrictions on who can use right-of-way to run cable. Wireless spectrum should be public and shared. Municipalities should be free to build networks and allow any and all providers to share them to provide service.

The government should not be in the internet business, nor should it subsidize it. However, government should also ensure that nothing can restrict free and open competition. Today, service providers have bought legislation that protects monopolies and eliminates competition.

•••••••

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

1 edit

What? Our national broadband plan is fine!

With giant corporations laying down a reliable infrastructure servicing Americans, what appears to be the problem? Everyone has Internet right? You guys should be thanking these giant corporations for building infrastructures for you to use.

In fact, people should be writing letters to Congress stating their disapproval with local community fiber wiring projects and contempt at Google for implementing an anti-competitive infrastructure for home consumers. Why are people trying to solve a problem that's already been solved? Are you people anti-American?

America has the best Internet compared to its Canadian brethren and brothers in the polar north and south. Appreciate and pay more of your hard earned money to honor these beloved corporations for serving America proud. Bend over Americans and cheer for your corporate heroes!
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric

Re: What? Our national broadband plan is fine!


Crusty

join:2008-11-11
Sanger, TX
Reviews:
·Embarq Now Centu..
·CenturyLink
said by HaloFans:

With giant corporations laying down a reliable infrastructure servicing Americans, what appears to be the problem? Everyone has Internet right? You guys should be thanking these giant corporations for building infrastructures for you to use.

In fact, people should be writing letters to Congress stating their disapproval with local community fiber wiring projects and contempt at Google for implementing an anti-competitive infrastructure for home consumers. Why are people trying to solve a problem that's already been solved? Are you people anti-American?

America has the best Internet compared to its Canadian brethren and brothers in the polar north and south. Appreciate and pay more of your hard earned money to honor these beloved corporations for serving America proud. Bend over Americans and cheer for your corporate heroes!

Love the sarcasm. LOL

In all seriousness though, America does need a vast improvement to it's infrastructure for Internet access. A those giant corporations need to "give back" to support the needs of the next decade.

We do need much more competition and much better rates.

For those of you who frown at this, consider the folks who don't live in major areas. Consider the folks that are truly limited to only TWO isp's and both refuse to fix\upgrade your town/towns.

with the way the use of the internet is growing, and will continue to grow, unless something is done to address the lack of connectivity, reliability and throughput, the issues we see today will only get worse....much worse. Put it in perspective: Can you think of a single person over 18 and under 30 in your life that isn't connected to the interweb in one way or form? Exactly, the "need" and "use" will be much much heavier in years to come.

Paying $60 a month for 1.5-2mb connection is ridiculous. However, to stay connected to my family, friends and work, I must continue to pay.
brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

Thank you!

For the free router : ) Let me know when I can keep it after you're done with the broadband tests.
Cobra11M

join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX

Re: Thank you!

said by brianiscool:

For the free router : ) Let me know when I can keep it after you're done with the broadband tests.

I dont want a free FCC router that puts more against my cap...
chomper87

join:2012-02-22
Clearwater, FL
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·CenturyLink

The only logical option

The only thing that makes sense is the local city build their own "open access network". Problem solved. They don't have to get approval - they can approve themselves. They can then get Sprint, AT&T, Verizon, Level 3, etc, etc competing as their backbone.

You can't really have 4 networks sprawled across the town with 4 lines going to each house. That's such a waste of resources.

Furthermore some of you forget there is competition. In mobile internet. Why invest in Fiber network (eg FiOS) when 3g/4g is skyrocketing?

How many of the general consumers care about real fiber internet? It seems not too many.
Paxio
Premium
join:2011-02-23
Santa Clara, CA
kudos:1

You can have open access without Gov't control

All you need is a private company that is committed to building and sharing the "first mile" infrastructure at reasonable prices. I don't think you'll ever see widespread building of FTTH by cities because the engineering and maintenance of the network is beyond the capability of most city staffs.

The business case for open access is actually quite compelling. Let's say you are Paxio and you spend a ton of capital to pass or connect every home in a city. Say only 30% of the users take your service -- that's a lot of wasted capex.

Now say you allow competing service providers to use the connection for a fee. The network sees ever increasing utilization and it saves capex for all providers. Getting the balance of prices for retail vs. wholesale network access is crucial, but the model could reshape the way services are delivered.
RX300

join:2004-02-23
Bluff Dale, TX

Working For Me

00.68 Mbps and no light at the end of the tunnel.
sparks

join:2001-07-08
Little Rock, AR

Re: Working For Me

they looked at what they were paid to look and reported on what they were told to report on (by big business).
F the consumer.