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Comments on news posted 2012-04-04 17:45:35: Verizon is apparently traveling back in time -- back to when they stubbornly wouldn't sell customers a standalone DSL line (aka unbundled, naked or dry loop). ..

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moes

join:2009-11-15
Cedar City, UT

1 recommendation

reply to Bob Elek

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

Bob, I am going to say this nicely, Shove it out your ass.

Thanks

Teleco user


chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Mediacom
reply to KrK

Re: So it comes down to this.

But we have no one to represent us in our best interest in Congress. Look at food industry, obesity, recent scandal with pink slime in your favorite meat. It's outrageous! And the middle class in America is shrinking. Middle class steadil pad mor for everything, inflatiOn goes up while companies offshore and lower wages. Once so good called middle class jobs like systems engineering tech support paid decent, now pays close to minimum wage. Many full time employes replaced with contractors with no paid holidays and health insurance. :X


Jurjen

join:2010-08-18
Montreal, QC
reply to cdru

Re: Sounds a little like Frontier

The stupid "security line" is optional for you? Cool!
Here Bell is raping the clients by having it mandatory. 8$ dry-loop fee on top of your internet connection, just to keep the 911 dialing option.


tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit
reply to FFH

Re: all about the money!

said by FFH:

said by tmc8080:

It is a business. It was always about the money.

Verizon knows damn well they conceded that dry loop DSL would still be on the table (for themselves & for co-location) for non-fios regions as precondition for allowing them into many *EXCLUSIVE* markets with FTTP without such conditions. Backtracking on this commitment should put recent wireless anti-competitive actions in the crosshairs for DOJ investigation based on recent spectrum purchases/alliances with cablecos.

Sometimes you follow the money and it leads to a trail of anti-competitive behavior not worthy of customer loyalty.

** Verizon should lose their *EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS* to it's current footprint for hanging an alternative broadband build! For example, google can take their 1gbit service and move east into West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Upstate NY, NJ, Ct.. etc.


norbert26
Premium
join:2010-08-10
Warwick, RI

in a FiOS market

I am on grandfathered DSL service. They have stopped offering DSL in some markets (new orders) where your address shows FiOS "available". I did not even get this email. That said i was doing dry loop a few years back however they were charging $10 extra at the time to have dry loop. Billing was direct to a CC only . I later put voice back on so i could use the one bill will my VZW and combine billing. I only have the minimum 90 minute local calling. In fact there is NO phone connected to the line at this time i am using the line solely for DSL.

Even with FiOS i can't order stand alone internet WITHOUT paying for installation and would have to buy their router. On the other hand they will throw all of sweet deals and free equipment and free install when you take TV and phone bundled. I don't need or want phone or TV bundled YET they continue to force these things especially the glorified land line phone nobody wants or uses anymore. With metro PCS and t-mobile cranking out unlimited phone plans everyone has their own personal cell phone now . I won't even get started in the TV area .


Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

1 recommendation

reply to dustman81

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

said by dustman81:

POTS is a dead technology.

C'mon, now you're just going to the other extreme.

Name me a single voice service that can even come close to (never mind match) the reliably of POTS. If you care about reliably then POTS is the only way to go. Got a business that can't afford downtime? Get POTS. Have someone in your house with a medical condition and can't take the risk of losing access to E911? Get POTS.

During the floods here last September Time Warner's "digital phone" product failed all over town. POTS kept running like a champ, even in those towns that were without power for more than a week. There was one small town out this way where the flood waters even reached Frontier's CO; DSL service went down in that town but POTS kept working in spite of the two feet of water in the central office.

One of my consulting customers is an insurance agency that changed to TW's phone product against my recommendation. They had no phones in their office for more than a week after the waters had receded. Guess how many customers they lost when insureds couldn't reach them to file flood claims in a timely manner? Ultimately they wound up running their business off cell phones for more than a week; hardly an acceptable solution for a 35 employee enterprise.

Oh, and guess what? In that same office there was a old POTS line attached to a DSL account that we never got around to shutting off. It STILL worked. They were able to use it for faxing and it was the one bright spot in an otherwise miserable week.

We had the POTS lines reinstalled the minute Verizon was able to schedule a truck roll. Go without your phone service for more than a week and the "savings" that VOIP offers you starts to look quite meaningless.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to Jurjen

Re: Sounds a little like Frontier

said by Jurjen:

The stupid "security line" is optional for you? Cool!

It's like $56 for 35/35 service with a 2 year agreement and the security line. Or like $54 without the contract or 911. It was a gamble on whether my rates would go up by $2 over the next 2 years, plus I have several kids at home after school that I don't mind paying a few bucks extra in case my VoIP acts up.


franknalco

join:2005-01-27
Littleton, CO

Business HSI

This is a residential customer "feature." Anyone who specifically requires naked DSL can still opt to install as a business account. Of course, the rates are a bit higher, but it does come with a better SLA. Just a thought....



trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2
reply to tkdslr

Re: How Long Before AT&T Does The Same Thing?

I could've told them that this was going to happen. Multiple uVerse customers in the same bundle is going to play havoc with the S/N ratios.

DSL is picky about line conditions already, especially VDSL and ADSL on longer loops. Add in a dozen uVerse VDSL lines in the same bundle and I can't help but to think that even those uVerse lines must have some nasty S/N ratios.

Can't believe that they are going to continue with this strategy. It has epic failure written all over it. Should've went FTTH, but no... can't do that, that's costs too much. Our investors are too stupid to allow us to do that.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | Galaxy Nexus LiquidSmooth by TeamLiquid



VZcust

@verizon.net
reply to Bob Elek

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

I used to have Verizon DSL + voice but switched to standalone DSL and a VOiP voice provider because it is much cheaper, with better features and equal reliability.

If I move, cable Internet will probably be cheaper than Verizon DSL + unwanted voice, so I will probably switch to cable, and Verizon will lose a customer.

Assuming Verizon makes money providing DSL-only service, losing customers like me doesn't seem to be a smart move by Verizon.



IowaCowboy
Want to go back to Iowa
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

I still have a landline

I still have a landline and I always will. One of the reasons is enhanced 911 (where the dispatcher can see the exact location of an emergency) along with the fact I have a security system that relies on dial tone and we also save our precious cell phone minutes (as my mother goes through her minutes pretty quickly, especially when I go up to Grandma's in Maine and she is at home in Massachusetts). I am in the process of switching the home phone back to Verizon wireline as I finally activated the alarm system and the Comcast Digital Voice can present problems for the alarm format that my panel is programed to use (which was confirmed on the DSLR Home Improvement forum).

It's a matter of not if but when the cable companies force us to buy expanded basic cable to buy their HSI. Won't be a problem for me as I have Digital Prefered for cable and HSI through Comcast. They charge an arm and a leg for their services in order to shove their triple play bundles down our throats. I liked the CDV until my power went out for three days last October and the CDV battery died a few hours later but the alarm panel lasted the whole time (which is why I am going back to traditional phone service instead of VoIP).
--
All of my CPE (including my EMTA) is customer owned. The only Comcast owned equipment in my house is the CableCards in the two TiVO boxes I own.



zoom314

join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA
reply to 25139889

Re: How Long Before AT&T Does The Same Thing?

Then He should, If He/She can, move to DSL Extreme, they don't require voice service, unlike stodgy old and greedy(desperate maybe?) Verizon. I pay $32.83 a month on 3M/768K service for Dry Loop DSL.


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to dvd536

Re: Makes the cable company happy

Actually, Verizon has plans at around $6 and $12, plus taxes and fees. Very, very basic plans, but they would work to get DSL. So it pretty much is the same thing.


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to Crookshanks

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

Verizon CDMA 1x. Seriously, no one wants landlines. No one wants another phone number, and not being able to reach people in a household directly. They are for old people who haven't made the all-wireless switch yet.

Sure, CDMA 1x can go down, but so can landlines. Cable phone is a disaster. Nowhere near the reliability of cell/POTS.

For a business, if the customers have their cell phone numbers in the first place, or if they have GV set to go to cell phone, who cares?

The savings is not VOIP. The savings is not having a landline in the first place. They are obsolete.


elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Let them know!

Verizon is unpredictable.

They might actually be rolling out a voice+data bundle that they perceive to be lower-priced than dry-loop alone, overlooking the taxes and fees.

They've surprised us before with low pricing. Yes, I said low pricing. Resident forum bashers and corporate-haters might not remember those moments, but they've occurred.

While I have the same issues with Verizon that others do, regards customer service, repair, billing and VZ Online, I have observed that Corporate (i.e. Seidenberg, and probably McAdam) does listen when you take the time to address them, in writing to HQ.

Please take the time to politely advise Verizon of their bone-headed decision, and articulate the real-world reasons Dry Loop is preferable, as well as DSL upgrades where Fios isn't going to happen.

Lowell McAdam, CEO
Verizon
140 West Street
New York, New York 10007

If pen & paper isn't your style, at least make a phone call to the Executive Response Team, 212-321-8700.



RevPeter

@myvzw.com

Gratuitous factual error

Seems the article author is not aware Verizon and Verizon wireless are TWO SEPARATE COMPANIES. VW in fact is owned by a company in the Netherlands IIRC. They share nothing but a name. Thus Verizon can't 'focus on wireless' as they have no wireless division anymore since they sold it off. They are doing this to DSL customers as landlines are their main source of income now. So they are trying to squeeze as much as they can.

May want to, you know, be informed on a topic before writing a article on said topic. Just saying.



MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to bdnhsv

Re: Makes the cable company happy

Verizon FIOS does the same thing but like cable, but worse. internet access only is very expensive $55 a month for the lowest tier

But when you bundle it with TV it drops to $35 and that's for the second teir 25/25, TV Costs $60 for the second rate plan Extreme HD.

The real kicker is at least for the first two years if you choose not to take the phone service the entire package is $10 more than if you take it because of all of the triple play savings, I figure their idea is that you take the home phone and then after your promotional savings are over your more inclined to keep the home phone service for $30 a month since you already have it.

Still I wanted both TV and Internet so I just took the phone to save $10 and it's a good deal for what I wanted.
I might just drop the phone after two years.


rtfm

join:2005-07-09
Washington, DC
reply to Bob Elek

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

said by Bob Elek :

Our decision to adjust the way we offer DSL service after May 6 more accurately represents the broadband customer base at Verizon. By discontinuing a stand-alone DSL offer after May 6, we can control our cost structure more effectively, enabling us to continue providing competitively priced services to existing and new customers.

Meanwhile, the Verizontal Left Hand is urging all FIOS victi^H^H^H customers to drop their regulated POTS over FIOS in favor of unregulated VOIP service from Verizontal Airline & Storm Door company.

THEN they whine to the state PSC's that they are "losing wireline customers...."


MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1
reply to r81984

Re: Makes the cable company happy

I wouldn't move into an apartment that forced me to use one service, I know it is legal but I'm not sure why it seems that it should be illegal to me.

If it was Verizon FIOS I'd probably make an exception because that's my current service and it's great.



MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to 25139889

Re: I got the e-mail today

FiOS isn't dead in the markets it's offered it's a wonderful service, and I think in those markets verizon is a serious competitor to cable, their network has more potential than cable.
The reason that the buildout has ended is simple. Short sighted investors threw a fit until verizon got rid of the CEO with a FIOS vision, which will be very profitable in the long run and replaced him with one of their own, a short sighted investor view.
FiOS where it is deployed has a serious leg up on cable. FTTH is the future , it's just going to take much longer thanks to short sighted investors



mushmouth

join:2001-12-13
Earth
reply to RevPeter

Re: Gratuitous factual error

said by nunya:

Dear valued customer,

Beginning May 6, 2012 - just get cable.

Sincerely,
Verizon

Yet every quarter the cry about losing landline customers.Seems like they want to push users away from the copper so in a few years they'll be able to say we have nobody on it let us get rid of it.

kingofdsl

join:2002-12-11
Elgin, IL

Will the Government step in?

All Americans know this is bulls.hit by now



IowaCowboy
Want to go back to Iowa
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to norbert26

Re: in a FiOS market

If they offered FiOS where I am at (Springfield, MA) I'd take it in a heartbeat for the HSI and TV offerings but I'd prefer copper for phone as it is the best option for alarm systems.
--
All of my CPE (including my EMTA) is customer owned. The only Comcast owned equipment in my house is the CableCards in the two TiVO boxes I own.



Orogogus

@biosite.com
reply to zoom314

Re: How Long Before AT&T Does The Same Thing?

I'm in San Diego, and when I got hit by AT&T's $10 overage fee last month I dumped them and was looking at DSL Extreme, but they told me where I live I had to get a landline from AT&T, for what I have to assume are technical reasons. The numbers didn't add up, so I switched to Time Warner Cable instead.

I use a prepaid line for my phone needs, and a landline is worth maybe $5/month to me. The minimum cost of a landline from AT&T was $25/month. The DSL line from AT&T was $20/month -- and that was after I had haggled them down from $30/month -- before the $10 overage fee. TWC charges $30/month with no cap, so I jumped.


bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY
reply to Bob Elek

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

Cost control? Yes Bob that's why its now $60.00 to get a 384K*1024K line now instead of the 14.99 "price for life" that Verizon used to offer.

I can get 5*30Mbit cable from Time Warner for 49.99....


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to MovieLover76

Re: Makes the cable company happy

FIOS is amazing. Where else are you going to get a 25/25 connection? And their TV service is the best, so bundling it is no big deal.


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to rtfm

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

Victims? Dude, I would LOVE to have FIOS. Why all the haters?



Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to BiggA

Re: Makes the cable company happy

said by BiggA:

Actually, Verizon has plans at around $6 and $12, plus taxes and fees. Very, very basic plans, but they would work to get DSL. So it pretty much is the same thing.

Verizon doesn't advertise those plans and will barely acknowledge they exist if you call them. Also it's the taxes and fees that make POTS expensive. The fees can be upwards of $10 a month.
--
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

So that's $16/mo, or $1 more than Comcast's de-bundling fee. Don't get me wrong, I think those fees should be illegal, but they all do it.



DC DSL
There's a reason I'm Command.
Premium
join:2000-07-30
Washington, DC
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Bob Elek

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

Dear Mr. Elek:

Perhaps if Verizon's copper voice product offerings weren't stuck in 1992 you'd have less blow-back regarding this change, and reduced defection to VoIP competitors overall. There is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for your copper service to not match the features of VoIP services feature for feature after a decade of various efforts, and at a price point no more than $5 or $10 greater to cover plant servicing. Promote that as a premium for copper voice being more reliable than cableco or wireless in the event of weather or other unusual situations. Keep a bare-bones copper voice tier for seniors/disabled/low-income that costs $10 or less with an optional $5 basic 1M Internet tier if they want it.

Sex-up your Freedom packages with all calling features AND DSL as standard. Roll-out CallAssistant across the board (getting rid of stupid impediments like it not being compatible with virtual number service), or get in bed with Google Voice and come up with a solution to replace CallAssistant.

The entry-level copper voice/DSL bundle goes for $35.99 includes unlimited local/regional and up to 7M DSL; next step up is unlimited US & Canada LD and up to 15M DSL for $45.99; and an International calling tier for $55.99. If an address can't get DSL service, provide a fixed LTE solution for the same price WITHOUT CAPS.

Offer a femto gizmo THAT DOES NOT EAT CELL MINUTES for FREE on the 7M & 15M DSL bundles since that offloads traffic from your kissing-cousin's wireless network.

Lastly, for those who might want a video option but can't use DirecTV (such as people in MDUs who don't face south), offer Flexview for an extra $20.

Since Verizon says it doesn't intend to rollout FiOS beyond where it already is, an approach such as this would once again make copper attractive and worthwhile both for consumers and Verizon. The costs of reworking the products would be negligible...probably much cheaper than selling-off copper markets.
--
"Dance like the photo isn't being tagged; love like you've never been unfriended; and tweet like nobody is following."