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Comments on news posted 2012-04-04 17:45:35: Verizon is apparently traveling back in time -- back to when they stubbornly wouldn't sell customers a standalone DSL line (aka unbundled, naked or dry loop). ..

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mushmouth

join:2001-12-13
Earth
kudos:1
reply to RevPeter

Re: Gratuitous factual error

said by nunya:

Dear valued customer,

Beginning May 6, 2012 - just get cable.

Sincerely,
Verizon

Yet every quarter the cry about losing landline customers.Seems like they want to push users away from the copper so in a few years they'll be able to say we have nobody on it let us get rid of it.

kingofdsl

join:2002-12-11
Indianapolis, IN

Will the Government step in?

All Americans know this is bulls.hit by now


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to norbert26

Re: in a FiOS market

If they offered FiOS where I am at (Springfield, MA) I'd take it in a heartbeat for the HSI and TV offerings but I'd prefer copper for phone as it is the best option for alarm systems.
--
All of my CPE (including my EMTA) is customer owned. The only Comcast owned equipment in my house is the CableCards in the two TiVO boxes I own.


Orogogus

@biosite.com
reply to zoom314

Re: How Long Before AT&T Does The Same Thing?

I'm in San Diego, and when I got hit by AT&T's $10 overage fee last month I dumped them and was looking at DSL Extreme, but they told me where I live I had to get a landline from AT&T, for what I have to assume are technical reasons. The numbers didn't add up, so I switched to Time Warner Cable instead.

I use a prepaid line for my phone needs, and a landline is worth maybe $5/month to me. The minimum cost of a landline from AT&T was $25/month. The DSL line from AT&T was $20/month -- and that was after I had haggled them down from $30/month -- before the $10 overage fee. TWC charges $30/month with no cap, so I jumped.

bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY
reply to Bob Elek

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

Cost control? Yes Bob that's why its now $60.00 to get a 384K*1024K line now instead of the 14.99 "price for life" that Verizon used to offer.

I can get 5*30Mbit cable from Time Warner for 49.99....

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to MovieLover76

Re: Makes the cable company happy

FIOS is amazing. Where else are you going to get a 25/25 connection? And their TV service is the best, so bundling it is no big deal.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to rtfm

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

Victims? Dude, I would LOVE to have FIOS. Why all the haters?


Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to BiggA

Re: Makes the cable company happy

said by BiggA:

Actually, Verizon has plans at around $6 and $12, plus taxes and fees. Very, very basic plans, but they would work to get DSL. So it pretty much is the same thing.

Verizon doesn't advertise those plans and will barely acknowledge they exist if you call them. Also it's the taxes and fees that make POTS expensive. The fees can be upwards of $10 a month.
--
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
So that's $16/mo, or $1 more than Comcast's de-bundling fee. Don't get me wrong, I think those fees should be illegal, but they all do it.


DC DSL
There's a reason I'm Command.
Premium
join:2000-07-30
Washington, DC
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Bob Elek

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

Dear Mr. Elek:

Perhaps if Verizon's copper voice product offerings weren't stuck in 1992 you'd have less blow-back regarding this change, and reduced defection to VoIP competitors overall. There is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for your copper service to not match the features of VoIP services feature for feature after a decade of various efforts, and at a price point no more than $5 or $10 greater to cover plant servicing. Promote that as a premium for copper voice being more reliable than cableco or wireless in the event of weather or other unusual situations. Keep a bare-bones copper voice tier for seniors/disabled/low-income that costs $10 or less with an optional $5 basic 1M Internet tier if they want it.

Sex-up your Freedom packages with all calling features AND DSL as standard. Roll-out CallAssistant across the board (getting rid of stupid impediments like it not being compatible with virtual number service), or get in bed with Google Voice and come up with a solution to replace CallAssistant.

The entry-level copper voice/DSL bundle goes for $35.99 includes unlimited local/regional and up to 7M DSL; next step up is unlimited US & Canada LD and up to 15M DSL for $45.99; and an International calling tier for $55.99. If an address can't get DSL service, provide a fixed LTE solution for the same price WITHOUT CAPS.

Offer a femto gizmo THAT DOES NOT EAT CELL MINUTES for FREE on the 7M & 15M DSL bundles since that offloads traffic from your kissing-cousin's wireless network.

Lastly, for those who might want a video option but can't use DirecTV (such as people in MDUs who don't face south), offer Flexview for an extra $20.

Since Verizon says it doesn't intend to rollout FiOS beyond where it already is, an approach such as this would once again make copper attractive and worthwhile both for consumers and Verizon. The costs of reworking the products would be negligible...probably much cheaper than selling-off copper markets.
--
"Dance like the photo isn't being tagged; love like you've never been unfriended; and tweet like nobody is following."


txpatriot

@or.us
reply to desarollo

Re: Tying Contract

Tying contracts aren't illegal per se, but I agree it sure looks like one.

Jurjen

join:2010-08-18
Montreal, QC
reply to cdru

Re: Sounds a little like Frontier

Everyone can make the decision for his/her own. People have cellphones (sometimes multiple) as a backup in the rare case that VoIP is down. I don't need a second backup, but unfortunately it's not an option.


Aware

@sbcglobal.net
reply to kingofdsl

Re: Will the Government step in?

they are doing it so you cancel and move on.... its simple.. getting a phone line is a small fee, however taxes, 911 service, stupid bs fee's here and there, make that a $20+ fee plus internet, which its not needed, its cheaper to use other services...

No brainer.. fuck all telecoms, they are not interested in service, only free easy money.. why people don't start voting all these corrupt "legal" politicians out of office and fix this country is beyond me...

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to MovieLover76

Re: I got the e-mail today

Agree with everything you said. I would add that they want to move in the direction of 'wireless everything' and don't want to invest another penny in wired technology even if wireless everything is years away. I guess thats their version of a long-sighted vision. Hence the new CEO is from Verizon wireless.

stridr69

join:2003-05-19
San Luis Obispo, CA
reply to RevPeter

Re: Gratuitous factual error

VW(Verizon Wireless) is 45% owned by Vodaphone which is based in the United Kingdom. Not in the Netherlands. Which is why Vodaphone is a sponsor of Mercedes McLaren of Formula 1 series. Based in the U.K. The ultimate of road racing vehicles. Totally off topic I know, but wanted to throw that in anyways!

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to CXM_Splicer

Re: I got the e-mail today

Wireless everything is never going to happen. Not enough spectrum, too much bandwidth demand. And even then, there have to be wired networks to connect the wireless things to.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to DC DSL

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

Problem is, VOIP is like $3/mo (Ooma). Why femto? What about just doing wifi calling on the phone itself?

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to 25139889

Re: Makes the cable company happy

said by 25139889:

It's not about what they charge for basic. It's about the extra fee they charge for not having TV.

And I have Buckeye. CMST does NOT charge $21 a month for not having TV with HSI. It's more like $10-12 extra. The same as TWC and the others.

What "extra fee" do they charge you for internet when you don't subscribe to TV?

Let me correct you. Internet service is about $54.95 a month. That is the price. That is how it's rate disclosed. That's the normal price of internet. If you subscribe (bundle) then you get a DISCOUNT.. say that with me.. "DISCOUNT" on internet service.

I never ceases to amaze me how everyone looks at the lowest printed price and believes anything above that is a penalty.

However, as you call it "a fee".. I have yet to, this day, ever see a line item that says "Non-TV subscriber FEE" on the bill.. do they? Is there a rate disclosure line item that says "Non-TV subscriber FEE"...?

I just can't get it in my head this society we live in where discounts are some how evil.


DC DSL
There's a reason I'm Command.
Premium
join:2000-07-30
Washington, DC
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to BiggA

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

Not everyone has a wifi-capable phone, or wants to use a voip client instead of their cell number.

Ooma may cost $3 but most services still cost more than that. And that price point won't support plant maintenance.
--
"Dance like the photo isn't being tagged; love like you've never been unfriended; and tweet like nobody is following."

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to BiggA

Re: I got the e-mail today

Thats what the 'experts' used to say about the mass use of cell phones. You are thinking in terms of today's technology.

It is do-able at the density of most areas except very large cities through the use of micro-cells. It would require a substantial investment in infrastructure which is another reason why they would have stopped FIOS. Just look what they are doing with FIOS equipment now... it is only going to be fiber to the side of the house then wireless from there to the STB's. You only need 1 wireless data channel for each channel being watched at any given time. Yes all Internet will be capped & throttled but they are already getting people used to that. I doubt they will even offer telephone over it... after all EVERYONE has a cell phone these days!


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
reply to zoom314

Re: How Long Before AT&T Does The Same Thing?

No dry loop DSLx with AT&T, at least in California. You have to have AT&T voice to get DSLx here.


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

Wouldn't be SO bad...

...if the TAXES and JUNK FEES weren't as much as the local voice service cost. In my area the AT&T local service is $10 (at least when I last checked) but between junk fees, USF, 9-1-1 fees and outrageous taxes it was nearly $20 when all was said and done.


PeteC2
Got Mouse?
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT
kudos:6

Bundling is not evil...unless it is forced

To me, it is only the "forced" bundling that represents poor product choice.

I maintain a landline because cell service where I live (not all over-just near my place!) is sketchy at best. I recently moved from AT&T voice/dsl to Comcast voice/internet.

Why? For practically the same cost for a 6Mbps (5Mbps in reality) line and phone, I am getting a 15Mbps (24 with speedboost) line and phone... (we already get cable tv free through a bulk contract with my landlord in a large apartment complex)

In my area, the only way dsl can be competitive with cable is to be an absolute cost-leader...offering dsl to those who need a rock bottom good price. This is the one price tier where AT&T still holds a competitive edge. If AT&T mandates having POTS to get internet, that would destroy that option and make dsl truly obsolete.

PS - I am not talking about Uverse, though when we looked into their local offerings it was not that good a deal.
--
Deeds, not words


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·row44
reply to MovieLover76

Re: Makes the cable company happy

said by MovieLover76:

I wouldn't move into an apartment that forced me to use one service, I know it is legal but I'm not sure why it seems that it should be illegal to me.

If it was Verizon FIOS I'd probably make an exception because that's my current service and it's great.

Good luck with finding that.
Originally the apartment cable was cheaper than anyone else. The cable internet always sucked, but you could get ATT dsl so that was not an issue.

Now that ATT has caps, I am screwed no matter what.
$100 a month for cable is insane, so my only option would be a dish.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.


Ericthorn
It only hurts when I laugh
Premium
join:2001-08-10
Paragould, AR
Reviews:
·Paragould.net
·Paragould.net
reply to r81984
We have to pay 24.95 for basic cable (btw I live in a house - our whole town is subjected to this) in order to get internet. Our internet is 62.95/mo for a 4mb/1mb connection, and that is what they call their 'business' class. It's one of the worst services and pricing in the area, but we like our house and the location, so we deal with it.
--
Ever try stuffing a melted marshmallow up a wildcat's ass? It can be done, but you have to like your job. - This Is The Way The World Ends by James Morrow - Join a DC club, it can't hurt you!

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to DC DSL

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

All smartphones from the last 5+ years are Wifi capable. T-Mobile does it this way, and it's one of the few high points of their otherwise lousy service and network.

I'm not making the argument that $3/mo would support plant maintenance. I'm just saying that Ooma is the competition, and that's what the telcos have to deal with. Really, the fact of the matter is that voice service is nearly fully commoditized, and the commoditized price is near $0. As a result, they need to do internet and TV, since internet is the fundamental pipe, and usually duopoly, and TV still has good margins. In order to effectively do that, they need FTTH.

PNelson

join:2012-03-23

Contact your State Regulatory Commission

I recommend people contact their state's regulatory commission about this practice. It is forcing people to purchase a service they do not want.

If enough people complain, they might wake up.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to CXM_Splicer

Re: I got the e-mail today

We're getting close to the physical limits of the capacity of spectrum.

Yeah, if you do a DAS with antennas every couple of houses, of course it will work, but at that point, why not just plug the houses actually in? And also, if you're rolling out that much gear, why bother with licensed spectrum, you could just use 802.11n, which is capable of at least 80mbps.

FIOS is not wireless. The video is QAM just like cable, and runs over existing coax, and the internet runs over MoCA on the QAM to a router that than does wifi, just like any other home router.


VZSUX

@optonline.net
reply to pende_tim
So true


DC DSL
There's a reason I'm Command.
Premium
join:2000-07-30
Washington, DC
kudos:2
reply to BiggA

Re: This is Bob Elek with Verizon.

You are again making the erroneous assumption that everyone has a smartphone. Many people don't. Even those that do have them do not universally have a voip client.
--
"Dance like the photo isn't being tagged; love like you've never been unfriended; and tweet like nobody is following."