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Comments on news posted 2012-04-10 14:37:20: Wireless carriers have started working with the U.S. government to build a database of stolen wireless phones that will be maintained by the carriers themselves. ..

BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

BosstonesOwn

Member

Ok , that is just messed up.

We are from the government and we are here to help !

Anyone else thinking this has to do with a false sense of security ? I mean really , an international stolen phone can still be used ! Let's track those too ! Or how about just using I don't know, a prepaid phone paid for with cash ?

Are we really to blind to see the crap that is happening in the name of we are here to help ?

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

vpoko

Premium Member

Re: Ok , that is just messed up.

I'm usually the first to rail against government sticking their nose where it doesn't belong - and they do quite a bit of it regardless the political persuasion of those currently in office - but this doesn't bother me at all. Phones already have unique serial numbers and require connection to a network; I don't see how blacklisting stolen phones is harmful. As for international phones stolen and subsequently activated in the US, I wouldn't think that it's nearly as common of a problem as domestic phones being stolen. Just because we can't get this system to 100% effectiveness doesn't mean we shouldn't get it to 98%.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

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My anti-government reputation is well known but i would expect the government to do its part to enforce laws against stealing things, fencing stolen property, etc.
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

1 recommendation

moonpuppy (banned)

Member

Re: Ok , that is just messed up.

said by pnh102:

My anti-government reputation is well known but i would expect the government to do its part to enforce laws against stealing things, fencing stolen property, etc.

Unless it's guns going to Mexico so the FBI and ATF can track them.

MovieLover76
join:2009-09-11
Cherry Hill, NJ
(Software) pfSense
Asus RT-AC68
Asus RT-AC66

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Really has nothing to do with safety, it's about slowing down phone theft, seems like a valid law to me, make cell phones less attractive to thieves.

Just make it publicly searchable so valid third party used phone sales on ebay and elsewhere can continue, I buy and sell a lot of phones for easier upgrades, and we'll need a way to confirm the IMEI isn't blocked before we sell or purchase the devices now.

This may make the prices go up on used phones as stolen phones leave ebay, but it was never my intention to buy stolen phones just used ones, so that's fine, it would make me feel better to know I wasn't getting stolen property, which really can't be identified now, Verizon does block stolen ESN's i know.

djdanska
Rudie32
Premium Member
join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA

djdanska

Premium Member

Re: Ok , that is just messed up.

said by MovieLover76:

Really has nothing to do with safety

If the thieves know that the phone will be a brick, chances are someone stealing a cell phone would go down. Why would you? Not worth it.

AnonMe
@comcastbusiness.net

AnonMe to MovieLover76

Anon

to MovieLover76

Finally!

Yes, please make it publicly searchable! While this system may not be 100% fool-proof, it should be 1) very cheap to implement; 2) cut down on a lot of the casual theives, or those who steal a phone given the opportunity just to mess around with it.

Seems like this database/website/importing of data from the carriers could be up in running in a month's time with 1 person's labor.

djdanska
Rudie32
Premium Member
join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA

djdanska

Premium Member

Re: Finally!

said by AnonMe :

Seems like this database/website/importing of data from the carriers could be up in running in a month's time with 1 person's labor.

I agree. It shouldn't take 18 months. T-Mobile already does block IMEI's. (Not with stolen but with unpaid phones/accounts)
Terabit
join:2008-12-19

Terabit

Member

Re: Finally!

Especially considering this has been in action for years overseas.

Aussies were the first to implement the system and Europe soon followed with great success.

shaner
Premium Member
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB

shaner

Premium Member

Re: Finally!

said by Terabit:

Especially considering this has been in action for years overseas.

Aussies were the first to implement the system and Europe soon followed with great success.

Oh! That's the kiss of death right there. The Europeans do it? Then it won't work in America.

Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium Member
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL

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to djdanska
said by djdanska:

said by AnonMe :

Seems like this database/website/importing of data from the carriers could be up in running in a month's time with 1 person's labor.

I agree. It shouldn't take 18 months. T-Mobile already does block IMEI's. (Not with stolen but with unpaid phones/accounts)

These companies are not nimble. Simple things take them lots of time to do. They can't do anything without a committe and lots of arguing.
I think a moderately technical person could have one running in just a few hours with an api.
Maxo

Maxo to MovieLover76

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to MovieLover76

Re: Ok , that is just messed up.

said by MovieLover76:

Just make it publicly searchable so valid third party used phone sales on ebay and elsewhere can continue, I buy and sell a lot of phones for easier upgrades, and we'll need a way to confirm the IMEI isn't blocked before we sell or purchase the devices now.

I think this is pretty important.
Theives will not care if the phone is stolen when they will just turn around and sell it to someone, making two victims out of their process, but not hurting the thief at all.

ohreally
@virginmedia.com

ohreally to BosstonesOwn

Anon

to BosstonesOwn
said by BosstonesOwn:

We are from the government and we are here to help !

Anyone else thinking this has to do with a false sense of security ? I mean really , an international stolen phone can still be used ! Let's track those too ! Or how about just using I don't know, a prepaid phone paid for with cash ?

Are we really to blind to see the crap that is happening in the name of we are here to help ?

The UK has had a blacklist for quite some time - phones are blocked quickly, and the lists are shared across (at least) Europe if not further afield.

The system works well, isn't really intrusive, doesn't involve tracking (it's just a list of reported stolen IMEIs after all) and is pretty much uncontroversial.

This is after all the point - to stop lost/stolen phones from being used on as many networks as possible, to reduce their value and so help lower/prevent theft. Nothing to do with tracking.

Hopefully the US contributes to and uses the list that is used in Europe to make a stolen phone even more useless.

Pirate515
Premium Member
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY

Pirate515

Premium Member

Re: Ok , that is just messed up.

said by ohreally :

Hopefully the US contributes to and uses the list that is used in Europe to make a stolen phone even more useless.

Great idea! Similar to what they do with cars. AFAIK, the car VIN sh!t list is international, so if a car gets reported stolen, totaled or salvaged in one part of the world, it cannot be registered anywhere.
BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

BosstonesOwn

Member

Re: Ok , that is just messed up.

I call BS on this one, I had my truck stolen and the thing turned up in Saudi Arabia 9 months later.

Yet it was registered and was being driven, the reason we even found it was that I had setup the nav system to report when check engine lights came on.

The person must have connected it to wifi to sync the music library and it emailed me the report, which we sent to the police and the insurance company, no one did a thing. and it sends me frequent reports when the person syncs with the music library.

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

vpoko

Premium Member

Re: Ok , that is just messed up.

I can imagine why the Everett police and your insurance company weren't able or willing to do anything about your truck in Suadia Arabia.
talz13
join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

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to BosstonesOwn
Sounds like a job for Interpol!
BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

BosstonesOwn

Member

Re: Ok , that is just messed up.

No sounds like a job for my insurance company who is global to go and try and get the vehicle back. Instead they bump my rates to compensate for some ass who stole my stuff. It's not right.
talz13
join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

talz13

Member

Re: Ok , that is just messed up.

Yeah, that's no good. Thankfully I have never had a car stolen, but I would want someone to kick some ass on my behalf if it did happen!

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

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They have to balance the cost of writing off your car versus the cost of trying to track it down halfway around the world. Either way that cost is getting passed onto the customer.
BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

BosstonesOwn

Member

Re: Ok , that is just messed up.

said by vpoko:

They have to balance the cost of writing off your car versus the cost of trying to track it down halfway around the world. Either way that cost is getting passed onto the customer.

But that is exactly the problem, they pass it on to us , but yet they won't go after the criminals who do it. Very bad precedent to set.
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned) to Pirate515

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to Pirate515
said by Pirate515:

Great idea! Similar to what they do with cars. AFAIK, the car VIN sh!t list is international, so if a car gets reported stolen, totaled or salvaged in one part of the world, it cannot be registered anywhere.

Yeah, that's BS. Other than the story of the truck in Saudi Arabia, Mexico has tons of stolen cars that were taken from this country.
Expand your moderator at work

hurleyp
join:2000-06-20
Ottawa, ON

3 recommendations

hurleyp

Member

Isn't there one already?

There already is a database of stolen phones. It's called ebay.com
40757180 (banned)
join:2009-11-01

40757180 (banned)

Member

911 is still not blocked

The fun part of having stolen phone is you can dial 911. Guess who gets the blame for it :P

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

vpoko

Premium Member

Re: 911 is still not blocked

Not once you've called and removed the phone from your account. Then it's just a deactivated phone calling 911.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine

Member

Re: 911 is still not blocked

Yep. All phones compatible with nearby signals have to be able to dial 911 per FCC mandate.

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

vpoko

Premium Member

Re: 911 is still not blocked

I realize that, but once the phone is no longer associated with your account it is no longer your problem.
40757180 (banned)
join:2009-11-01

40757180 (banned)

Member

Re: 911 is still not blocked

said by vpoko:

I realize that, but once the phone is no longer associated with your account it is no longer your problem.

So who gets blamed for 911 if it's no longer associated with the owner? The phone company or FCC?

djdanska
Rudie32
Premium Member
join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA

djdanska

Premium Member

Re: 911 is still not blocked

They can still track the phone on the network, regardless if it's allowed service or not. With a t-mobile or at&t phone, chances are they are dialing w/o a sim (then won't show the previous users phone # or anything) or a new sim (with the new users info).

Pirate515
Premium Member
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY

Pirate515

Premium Member

Re: 911 is still not blocked

said by djdanska:

They can still track the phone on the network, regardless if it's allowed service or not. With a T-Mobile or AT&T phone, chances are they are dialing w/o a SIM (then won't show the previous users phone # or anything) or a new SIM (with the new users info).

Correct. 911 operators do track incoming calls (in case of cell phones it would either be tower triangulation or GPS if a phone has it) so that if a person can't clearly identify where the emergency is, they can still send unit(s) to the area.The same can be used to try to track abusers who start calling 911 when there is no real emergency. Obviously, if an actual number shows up during 911 call and they manage to link it to a valid carrier account, catching the perpetrator becomes even easier.

••••

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

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No one gets blamed unless the person dialing gets caught (and obviously isn't calling for a bona fide emergency).

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList to vpoko

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to vpoko
I can call 911 just fine on 10+ year old sprint cell phone. It is most definitely not activated anymore

•••

Tomek
Premium Member
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY

Tomek

Premium Member

IMEI change

They do that all over Europe. Stolen phones get blacklisted, but thieves change IMEI number and viola! works.

Worst is verizon with stolen phones, they simply re-activate them -_- for anybody who requests it.

••••••••••••••
primeomega
join:2004-03-11
De Pere, WI

primeomega

Member

Just wait...

Stolen phones now, every phone in a few years....

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

vpoko

Premium Member

Re: Just wait...

said by primeomega:

Stolen phones now, every phone in a few years....

Every phone what? They can already get the subscriber info related to a phone from the carrier at a moment's notice. It's fine to have conspiracy theories, but at least try to think them through.

buddahbless
join:2005-03-21
Premium

buddahbless

Member

what will happen....

The major carriers in the US will blacklist the imei/esn and companies such as ATT/Tmobile who currently dont really care will no longer let those phones be registered on there network, there for goodbye all those stolen, supposedly damaged beyond repair, or "reported lost" phones on craigslist, kijiji, and ebay.. but then again??? the smaller carriers Simple mobile, H2O, walmart mobile, straight talk will be only to greatful to allow them on there network as they are open to BYOD and due to that reason they may allow phones on with no IMEI checking. Anyone familiar with "flashing" knows you can have a "bad" esn EVO or Droid ( Sprint/Verizon) flashed and activated and in full use on Metropcs, boost, or cricket. So this may significantly slow down the rate of stolen phones but in no way will this stop it dead. Bottom line... " You can build a better mouse trap but the mouse will just get smarter."
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN
Ubee E31U2V1
(Software) pfSense
Netgear WNR3500L

Chubbysumo

Member

Re: what will happen....

said by buddahbless:

So this may significantly slow down the rate of stolen phones

Thats probably the goal, and considering that newer smartphones are having their ESN and IMEI numbers embedded into their hardware, its getting ever more difficult to change them, and the amount of work to do it isnt worth it anymore, especially with the prices of new prepaid android based phones.

Look at it this way: All smaller carriers and resellers, with a few exceptions, run on one of the big 4s networks, so even if it only involved the big 4, its still 98% of the US market covered. Also, consider that it will be an easily accessible national database to ANY wireless carrier, and it will more than likely come with the stipulation that they MUST look and see if the phone is already listed there or not, which means that it would be really easy to integrate into any size carrier. It wont stop it dead, but it will slow it down a ton.
tdumaine
Premium Member
join:2004-03-14
Seattle, WA

tdumaine

Premium Member

Poor thieves

The only ones that will bitch about this is the thieves trafficking in stolen phones.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK

Premium Member

It's about time--- People are getting robbed and killed ...

... so that some thug can take their phone and get an easy cash for it, and all they have to do is change the SIM out and bingo, free phone.

This is great news!
KrK

KrK

Premium Member

Make sure you report your old IMEI's when it goes live...

If you've had a phone stolen or you just plain left it somewhere and it vanished, make sure you report in your IMEI's when the databases go live.

It would be great to think somewhere the phone will brick and when the person calls in or goes to the store and starts to rant and rave the CSR/Rep will be able to look straight into their face and say with a smile, yes, that's because the phone is stolen. We'll keep it, thanks.... would you like to buy a new phone?

Satisfaction.

Pirate515
Premium Member
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY

Pirate515

Premium Member

Re: Make sure you report your old IMEI's when it goes live...

said by KrK:

We'll keep it, thanks...

I don't think that any sane store rep would be willing to attempt to take the phone away, especially from a thief. Refusing to activate would probably be as far as any carrier would be willing to go. Now, if they hand it over voluntarily, I don't see any reason not to take it. And if that be the case, as an act of courtesy, the carrier should try to contact the rightful owner to see if they want it back.

As some have already pointed out, the primary purpose of this system is not to punish thieves, but to discourage them and thus prevent cell phone theft. If they know ahead of time that they can't use and/or sell a stolen cell phone, maybe they won't bother stealing it in the first place.
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned)

Member

Re: Make sure you report your old IMEI's when it goes live...

said by Pirate515:

said by KrK:

We'll keep it, thanks...

I don't think that any sane store rep would be willing to attempt to take the phone away, especially from a thief. Refusing to activate would probably be as far as any carrier would be willing to go. Now, if they hand it over voluntarily, I don't see any reason not to take it. And if that be the case, as an act of courtesy, the carrier should try to contact the rightful owner to see if they want it back.

As some have already pointed out, the primary purpose of this system is not to punish thieves, but to discourage them and thus prevent cell phone theft. If they know ahead of time that they can't use and/or sell a stolen cell phone, maybe they won't bother stealing it in the first place.

The store should be required to call police and report anyone trying to activate a stolen phone. If the police say, "We are too busy" then let the guy go without activating the phone. When the crackhead sells it for $10, the next idiot will come in and then get arrested for possession of stolen property.

exocet_cm
Writing
Premium Member
join:2003-03-23
Brooklyn, NY

exocet_cm

Premium Member

You guys don't realize...

...how valuable this is.

As a former robbery detective, about three-quarters of all of my robbery investigations centered around a stolen smart phone and of those smart phones, probably ninety percent were AT&T iPhones.

If thieves knew that phones would be completely useless after a robbery I know most of our thugs wouldn't have stolen the phone. They'd probably go back to demanding the wallet and cash.

I've had victims beaten for their smartphone. Stabbed for their smartphone. Held at gun point for their smartphone. Finally, a system in the works to make em useless.

Granted we, as law enforcement, will have to adapt. But that is talk for another time and place.

kevinds
Premium Member
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB

kevinds

Premium Member

This is good, but very open to abuse

What is to stop a carrier from starting to black-list phones from closed accounts just because.

Unpaid bills, for a stolen database, is not its purpose. I know of cell phones that had previous unpaid bills, (I don't remember the provider, believe it was Sprint), bills got paid, but the phone was never removed from the Do-Not-Authorize list.

If anybody (carriers) can add a phone to the database, who can have serial numbers (I use serial for both IMEI and ESN) removed from this database.

Yes, this is a great idea, as long as it is used for it's intended purpose only.

cchhat01
Dr. Zoidberg
join:2001-05-01
Elmhurst, NY

cchhat01

Member

T-Mobile DOES Block stolen phones!

I think our Karl is misinformed about T-Mobile's practice. This really is only for AT&T. T-Mobile does block stolen phones.

I had the misfortune of actually buying a Samsung Galaxy S2 phone off eBay as listed brand new from a reputed dealer. The phone was to be used under a T-Mobile service. All was well until one month later the phone simply didn't register on the T-Mobile network. I called T-Mobile and they actually told me that the phone was flagged as being stolen and the IMEI had been reported. I needed to provide the original receipt from a T-Mobile store showing purchase of the device. Since I didn't have a T-Mobile receipt, it became a mere paperweight.

Fortunately, it wasn't too late and I got in touch with the seller on eBay who was good enough to refund me the cost of the phone after i shipped it back.

Bottom line is T-Mobile does block IMEIs.

I think its wrong to state such a thing that T-Mobile doesn't do so. Its probably only AT&T that allows this practice of not doing anything.
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Re: T-Mobile DOES Block stolen phones!

had Cingular not done this at all before merger with at&t/sbc?

at&t in general is very reputable to me, the only beef I have about them is higher prices and more anticonsumer monopolistic behavior. I am glad I was able to get 23% employee discount from a large company and get early their $5 for sms/mms and $25 data plan when they were still offering it. This helped me cut bill while allowed me to stay there and stay within nationwide coverage. T-Mobile has very small coverage and apparently where I work now with a reputable large IT company, T-Mobile does not even have service there.