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Comments on news posted 2012-04-12 09:01:42: With the world headed forward to cellular, VoIP and other technology, the pay phone is very obviously starting to become a relic in many locations -- but regulations require many locations to keep some pay phones in service for emergencies. ..

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FFH5
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join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Headline wrong - no one fighting to keep pay phone

Nothing in either of the linked news stories mentions anyone in Chambers trying to keep the pay phone in place. The story is really about the state PUC still enforcing an archaic rule that is no longer needed, just like rules requiring hitching posts for horses outside post offices was no longer needed.

thegeek
Premium Member
join:2008-02-21
right here

thegeek

Premium Member

$1500?

how the hell does it cost that much to have a phone that just sits there unused?

FFH5
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join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

said by thegeek:

how the hell does it cost that much to have a phone that just sits there unused?

From the linked story:
quote:
The company told the commission it spent $1,469 maintaining them that same year. That includes checking the coin boxes, repairing damage and paying for dial tones, surcharges, fees, taxes and phone books, Woods said.

EliteData
EliteData
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Philippines

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$1500 for to maintain the physical phone, pay any costs to have it located on the property and empty the money from it i suppose.
i remember the days where a Bell/AT&T phone was every 1/16 of a mile.
these days, any phones you find are third party rip-offs, they typically have a regular restricted POTS line entering a computerized phone, easy enough to just tap into the incoming line and make free calls.

ArrayList
DevOps
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Mullica Hill, NJ

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ArrayList to thegeek

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to thegeek
quote:
While the companies probably don't like eating these costs, the source article omits the fact that most of these telcos (small and large alike) have been subsidized billions for years for services they may -- or may have not -- ever actually provided.
I could care less how much it costs if they have been getting subsidized for services that they may or may not have ever provided.

They can suck it up and just keep the phone there.
ArrayList

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said by EliteData:

these days, any phones you find are third party rip-offs, they typically have a regular restricted POTS line entering a computerized phone, easy enough to just tap into the incoming line and make free calls.

please continue. I want to hear more about this.

FFH5
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Tavistock NJ

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said by ArrayList:


I could care less how much it costs if they have been getting subsidized for services that they may or may not have ever provided.

They can suck it up and just keep the phone there.

Why? If no one is using it. Payback? Getting even with the man? Yes, that would be really productive.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
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Why do you care about a pay phone that's in a town you will probably never visit?
GraysonPeddi
Grayson Peddie
join:2010-06-28
Tallahassee, FL

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Prepaid Cell Phone Service With Unexpired Minutes

As pay phones are going away, wouldn't there be cell phone service that offer pay-as-you-go service with minutes that do not expire?

battleop
join:2005-09-28
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Re: $1500?

Since the payphone is operated by a 3rd party the LEC isn't going to terminate the POTS line into the payphone it's self. They will place a NID next to the payphone, very often at a height you can reach. All you need is a screwdriver or torx bit to open the NID and a buttset to make a call.

Suntop
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Suntop

Premium Member

The reason payphones are a dead species

Because now everyone can get a cellular phone (pre-paid from several providers nationwide for those with atrocious credit) the pay phone's only useful areas are at bus stops, airports, train terminals, and malls. Back in 1985, in Tacoma, Washington at an apartment complex I lived in had a row of 8 payphones. Now these same apartments today do not have any payphones.

All of the area's that had payphones dwindled down to next to nil. Only transit centers, convenience stores, malls, and very few gas stations still have phones. And a great many of them have the private payphones which are not too much of a rip-off with the exception of the operator service that charge more than AT&T to make a collect call. (Of course the owner of the said phone gets a cut, that is why it is so damned expensive.)

That is in Washington, now in Montana you only see pay phones in the larger cities. My hometown here used to have 2 pay phones but since are now gone. When I was reading the article, the main cost is not providing a dial tone, not collecting the money, it is the fact that people get mad, are destructive, or thieves and yank the handset off the phone. With enough force they rip that cord right out of that phone which in turn requires the provider to come out with a new handset that probably costs them like 20-30 bucks to have repaired. However, it is not a good idea to not have a payphone for 911, unless you have a cellphone without service (which required by the FCC to all calls to 911) there is no way you can call 911 unless you happened to be by the phone booth.
The fine print follows: Disclaimer: This is just my view and opinion, your mileage varies, blackout dates apply, and other restrictions applies there will be no replies to trolls, flaming or spammers. Have a Nice day.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

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Re: $1500?

Of course you're risking theft of service charges over a $0.50 phone call. Probably doubtful that you'd get caught but even so...

My favorite bit of telco "hacking" was when I was on an extended hike and discovered Cat3 lying on the ground. There was nearly three miles of the stuff, clipped together every so often. It ended in a junction box for buried cable. I followed the other end and discovered it also ended in a burial junction box. Naturally when I got home I had to get my buttset and drive back out there to see if there was dial tone on either of the pairs. Low and behold there was.

A friend of mine who works for Frontier noticed the pictures I put up on FB and checked it out for me. Come to find out a 25 pair segment of buried cable failed and they left the Cat3 lying on the ground next to the road to provide dial tone service for the ONE customer that had a phone on that road. I wonder if they ever fixed that buried cable or if the Cat3 is still there?

nothing00
join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

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Checking the coin box? How many trips out there did they make to collect $3.35 in change? Wouldn't you *know* how much money was in a coin box as well and schedule your trips accordingly? (OK, maybe this technology is too old for something like that.)

But ~$1500 to maintain is definitely the reason large corporations don't pay taxes. There's no way this actually cost them this much but I'm sure that's what they're writing off as an expense thanks to creative accounting and favorable tax loopholes.

Edit: Still they should just get rid of this thing.

ArrayList
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said by FFH5:

said by ArrayList:


I could care less how much it costs if they have been getting subsidized for services that they may or may not have ever provided.

They can suck it up and just keep the phone there.

Why? If no one is using it. Payback? Getting even with the man? Yes, that would be really productive.

No. They are being paid for it. Either way they are going to get the subsidy, they should provide the phone.
ArrayList

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Are you trying to imply that I'm selfish enough to not care about the citizens of Podunk, Nebraska?
Desdinova
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Gaithersburg, MD

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"paying for dial tones, surcharges, fees, taxes and phone books"

Hmmm. How much for a dial tone? What does that involve? What surcharges and who's charging them? Is the phone company billing itself for these? Same questions for the "fees". What fees? To whom? For how much? Same for the taxes. What taxes? How much? State? Federal? Local? One phone book a year is probably pretty inexpensive, even if they occasionally get stolen (which I suspect is not the case).

Based on the long history of fraud and abusive billing practices on the part of the telco industry, I confess to being overly suspicious of any claim that they make. $1469 is a pretty specific amount which suggests that someone has done the math on a per cost basis. It seems to me that they'd have a bit more credibility for their case if they'd release the actual numbers and sources. But as it stands right now, in my eyes, their vagueness undermines their claim.

I won't even get into how we have only their word that it was only $3.35 in revenue. Once again, considering their deceptive history, it could be earning a lot more than that and they're misreporting the numbers to support their position (but there's no direct evidence for that and it's only speculation).

Madness
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join:2000-01-05
Lynn, MA

Madness

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Number?

Too bad they didn't post the number. I'd ring it just to give it something to do. Someone answers, I'd be like, "save me" in some solemn voice!

Cjones
@rogers.com

Cjones

Anon

I wish to vomit while saying this

but I think the telco has a point. If the argument is that the poor won't have access to the phone, which I have often heard, then I would respectfully suggest a method by which minutes which never expire could be purchased for a SIM card or handset, with a SIM being the better option. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to wash my hands, agreeing with a telco has made them dirty.

FFH5
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Tavistock NJ

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Re: $1500?

said by Desdinova:

Once again, considering their deceptive history, it could be earning a lot more than that and they're misreporting the numbers to support their position (but there's no direct evidence for that and it's only speculation).

And what makes you think K & M Telephone Company has a history of being deceptive? This isn't Verizon or AT&T here.

Robert
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Miami, FL

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Re: Headline wrong - no one fighting to keep pay phone

said by FFH5:

just like rules requiring hitching posts for horses outside post offices was no longer needed.

Hold your horses there for a minute.. the way gas prices are going, we may need hitching posts for horses!

aaronwt
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aaronwt

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They said they netted $3.35..

So doesn't that mean after all their fees, that was their profit? If they lost money their net would be negative.
So the phone brought in close to $1500. It might be different if they were losing money on it, but they made a few bucks. As long as they make money or break even there should be no reason to remove the pay phone.
openbox9
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Re: $1500?

said by nothing00:

But ~$1500 to maintain is definitely the reason large corporations don't pay taxes.

OT, but large corporations do pay taxes. One might argue that they shouldn't
InvalidError
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Re: They said they netted $3.35..

They might have meant "netted" as in catching something with a net... in this case, coins.

Even if it was net income after expenses, $3.35 out of a $1500 is 0.2% return on investment and companies usually axe projects that perform below 8-10%. The $1500 that goes in the phone booth to generate $3.35 profit would have generated ~$150 if the company had invested it elsewhere so... so, although the phone itself may be profitable, the company is still eating a ~$146.25 opportunity loss from maintaining it.
openbox9
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Re: $1500?

said by Desdinova:

I won't even get into how we have only their word that it was only $3.35 in revenue.

You can always ask K&M to look at their audited books if you'd like.
Bananas21ca
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Re: They said they netted $3.35..

Revenue is not Profit.

$3.35 is probably what was in the coin box.
openbox9
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Re: $1500?

According to the article, the ~$1500/yr covers two payphones separated by around 25 minutes of travel time.
said by Journalstar.com :

The two pay phones generated a total of $19.58 in 2011, with less than half of that coming in as quarters and dimes for local calls. Long-distance carriers paid the rest.

The company told the commission it spent $1,469 maintaining them that same year. That includes checking the coin boxes, repairing damage and paying for dial tones, surcharges, fees, taxes and phone books, Woods said.

In all, a $1,450 hit.


firephoto
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"I have mine, who cares about them."
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openbox9
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What is the company getting paid? What's the subsidy for this one unused, unneeded phone?

ArrayList
DevOps
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Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

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said by openbox9:

What is the company getting paid? What's the subsidy for this one unused, unneeded phone?

quote:
K & M isn't alone since Nebraska's Public Service Commission requires each town in the State to have at least one 24-hour public pay phone. While the companies probably don't like eating these costs, the source article omits the fact that most of these telcos (small and large alike) have been subsidized billions for years for services they may -- or may have not -- ever actually provided
it was conveniently left out of the article.
openbox9
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Re: They said they netted $3.35..

Nope. Two phones separated by around 25 minutes of travel time lost just over $1450 during 2011.
said by Journalstar.com :

The two pay phones generated a total of $19.58 in 2011, with less than half of that coming in as quarters and dimes for local calls. Long-distance carriers paid the rest.

The company told the commission it spent $1,469 maintaining them that same year. That includes checking the coin boxes, repairing damage and paying for dial tones, surcharges, fees, taxes and phone books, Woods said.

In all, a $1,450 hit.

It sure we be nice if Karl Bode See Profile quote more relevant portions of these sources.
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