Comments on news posted 2012-05-25 12:48:58: As we noted the other day, numerous broadcast executives have been whining about Dish's new DVR technology that will skip ads automatically -- a system that simply streamlines something most DVR users do anyway. ..
I say go for it. What other choice do consumers have? The media moguls should raise their rates, restrict streaming availability for subscription services, and include annoying ads and disruptive screen overlays. They should make it a costly nightmare for anyone who dares attempt to watch a program on TV. It's the only way we might ever see a legitimate change or create an atmosphere that might foster competition.
We don't have a dog in this fight as it stands. The back room deals are being made by the TV providers and the content creators, when they aren't one in the same. You and I have no choice other than to either go without any service at all or cater to whatever whims they feel like subjecting us to.
I say we toss a rock in the pool to make some ripples. I hope Dish wins, or the fight lasts long enough that it impacts the next round of negotiations. If we are lucky, perhaps the fighting will be bitter, long-lasting, and extremely costly with consequences that make noise in every corner of the country. I want the viewers to disappear in a cable TV exodus that destroys the existing model and allows something more modern and customer friendly to rise from the ashes.
My favorite TV entertainment, interestingly enough, does not include commercials.
--snip
Evidently, commercials are such an annoyance to me that I have altered my viewing habits to avoid them whenever possible. If they bug me too much, I'll do something else.
I couldn't agree with you more. I'll happily pay for box sets of any series I like or I just won't watch it simple as that.
Hell its getting annoying even to FF past the commercials in recordings.
And when you take those ads away from OTA TV- what happens to those networks and those new shows? they go away. Why? because those ads pay to support those shows. The same as if you were to buy a commercial during a certain program - it goes to pay for that- that the whole "sponsored by"
The ads aren't being removed. They're being skipped. It makes no difference whether someone watches an ad or not. It's still there and the advertiser still pays for its transmission. The money being received by these networks from advertisers is most certainly at an all-time high. If someone skips over a commercial during the playback of recorded content on their DVR or they get up and walk out of the room during its live transmission the money that was paid for it doesn't suddenly go *POOF*. The notion that the sky is going to fall if everyone doesn't watch ads is bupkis.
And this is more about Dish recording these shows and allowing for the ads to be skipped- that creates a copyright issue.
Dish isn't doing anything other than offering a more convenient way to skip over ads, something people do already with their DVR's (and like Karl mentioned before, the network execs like to bury their heads in the sand and act like this doesn't happen). Nothing is being removed or modified on the recorded content, thus no copyright issue. The commercials are still there, they were still aired, they were still recorded, and the network still gets their advertising dollars.
Why do we need network trash channels on satellite? Dump them networks completely, most of the stuff on there is absolute rubbish anyways. A lot of the advertising is pretty abusive too, like certain insurance company ads, bragging ambulance chaser lawyer ads, absolutely drives a person nuts. Not to mention garbage reality shows and dancing with the stars.
MISSED ME ...i haven't seen an ad for years i have the uber cool setup called
DOWNLOAD ....yes kids and adults you too can enjoy no more propaganda and lies by corporations, you can sit back pause , restart , re watch any time you want ( WOW isn't technology cool).
Best thing is as the legal ways you cant do it you just encrypt go ahead break whatever local laws and get this freely!!!! WOOT now i have more money to spend in my local economies and make my community BETTER then yours that screws everyone.
HAVE A WICKED WEEKEND and remember when hollywood tells you you should pay more its a good thing.... Remember sitting on a 30000 dollar gold toilet also leads to hernia's.
Actually the company pays to show it on their network. It still is free to the public who does NOT wish to pay for Dish or cable.
Except that the dispute isn't over a stand-alone DVR that works with an OTA signal, it's about a feature on a proprietary box provided by a pay-TV company. Meaning that the only people who will be using this feature are those who already pay a monthly fee to receive that programming.
Free, OTA TV watching isn't being changed at all, at least not yet. Only a paid service is changing.
And this is more about Dish recording these shows and allowing for the ads to be skipped- that creates a copyright issue.
No it doesn't.
Copyright is exactly what it says; The right to copy. Or more accurately, the right to restrict people from copying something without authorization.
DVRs are perfectly legal to use. According to the courts, using a recording device to time-shift programming is a perfectly legal activity. Allowing people to skip commercials in no way violates copyright. The DVR isn't making extra copies, distributing copies, or altering the copies. Therefore there is no copyright issue.
This is the equivalent of suing theaters that allow people to use the restroom while the ads are playing before the start of a movie.
So what do the networks think of people grabbing the remote to channel surf while the commercials are on? Or people who use the bathroom or otherwise look elsewhere?
For some reason the latter reminds me of that scene from A Clockwork Orange. Now THAT'S a way to get people to watch the commercials.
Dish is merely trying to give it's customers what they want.
The industry wants to control what those customers do in their own homes. Dish is on the moral and correct side.... which means, they'll probably lose... This is America!
I won't be paying more. The more expensive they make it, the more I find I don't need it.
They make it too expensive and then it's back to bootlegging and piracy as the preferred and eerily enough, most moral, way to get the programming for many people.
I used to have cable TV, not over the air. I also stopped watching TV shows years ago, so maybe they've realized how ridiculous it was to do that by now.
On a side note, it was usually the 4 big networks that did it. (NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX)
Or they'll find some way to fool the ad detection technology.
Either way, Dish won't get away with this for very long, at least not until it's time to renew retransmission agreements.
It's so easy to buy a TV capture card, install it on a PC and record the program; then download a video editing software to edit out all the commercials and then make a new ISO of the program, commercial free!
Oh! And if you like it so much that it needs to be preserved for posterity, the ISO only needs to be burned onto a blank DVD
Dish is merely trying to give it's customers what they want.
Actually what Dish is doing probably will be considered copyright infringement by the courts because there is a fundamental difference with the Betamax decision. Individual viewers using their already existing ability to skip commercials involves personal use rather than the profit motive. Dish is without permission altering copyrighted broadcasts for profit.
There is no grounds to copyright infringement claims.
The full recording is unaltered. The user can, at their discretion, can turn on a feature that will skip playback of parts of the recording. It will NOT change the recording or alter it in any way. No alteration of the work, no copyright infringement.
The Studios are going to use this case to try and roll back the Sony Betamax case that allowed recordings for home use as fair use. They would LOVE to overthrow this, as it would make ANY recording illegal unless they specifically allow it (IE you pay extra for it.)
They would LOVE to have previous precedents thrown out. Here's hoping it doesn't happen.
If watching a show at a different time from when it airs, and skipping commercials mean they label me a pirate, fine, I embrace piracy.... because it isn't and I know it.
So what do the networks think of people grabbing the remote to channel surf while the commercials are on? Or people who use the bathroom or otherwise look elsewhere?
For some reason the latter reminds me of that scene from A Clockwork Orange. Now THAT'S a way to get people to watch the commercials.
Some networks are breaking surfing by synchronising when the ads come on so channel a, b, c and d all have ads at the same time!
Actually the broadcast is altered because it is recorded without the commercials and it's Dish (not the consumer) doing it to make a profit. A court ruling against Dish wouldn't change the precedent in the Betamax decision that VCRs and their fast forwarding controls have non-infringing uses and that non-commercial personal use of such devices is a fair use exception of copyright law.
all that shit at the bottom of the screen during the actual show you are watching. How many logos, adds for upcoming shows, and 'sponsored by' bullshit do we have to see? You miss most everything that happens on the bottom 1/5 of the screen because of this crap.
Why do we need network trash channels on satellite? Dump them networks completely, most of the stuff on there is absolute rubbish anyways.
You may think so but the broadcast networks still have most of the highest rated shows. Dish is free to dump the broadcast stations as soon their retransmission consent agreements expire but is unlikely to do so. The subscription rates for both DirecTV and Dish skyrocketed after the law was changed to allow them to provide local broadcast channels. BTW it seems like some of the cable (satellite distributed) networks have more of the Paris Hilton, Kardashian style "reality" shows than you can shake a stick at.
Dish won't get away with this for very long, at least not until it's time to renew retransmission agreements.
Speaking of renewing those agreements, what major station group in their right mind is going to allow Dish to keep doing this unless Dish is willing to pay them at Disney / ESPN levels? DirecTV and the cable companies will be more than willing to accept the additional business if Dish can no longer carry ABC, CBS, FOX, and NBC.
I've got news, TV execs: I don't always type "z" when mythfrontend tells me there's an ad. I actually do watch an ad now and then. And because the algorithm is imprecise, I have it show a couple of seconds before the ad ends, so I see the tail end. And sometimes that last couple of seconds is so compelling that I skip back to watch it.
Another poster touched on what might happen: using lower thirds. I would imagine the producers would hate this, as it detracts from what one would put in the video frame, maybe even obscuring what they'd like to put there. (So what would they do in response? Letterbox the lower third and write it into the distribution contract with the network that the upper two thirds are not alterable or you don't get a license to distribute the content? dunno.) Also think of the YouTube overlay, and ad intro ("you may skip this ad in 5...4...3...2..."). Just like the MythTV case, I may like what I see and not click "skip." Heck, ads are sometimes entertainment too, so I'll watch them.
(BTW, YouTube...thank you for making this extraordinarily easy to bypass by adding URL filtering in my HTTP proxy.)
Finally, consider leaning more on writers and producers. For example, it was written right into an episode of "Eureka," where Jo was driving around in a Subaru WRX, and started talking with Fargo about it (of course mentioning it by name). And of course, Fargo was so enamored with Jo's WRX he had to get one for himself. Y'know...how many times would we very plainly see Coke, Ritz, and other brands on "Seinfeld?" Even the MythBusters were doing something close to radio's live read for (I think it was) Toyota. Those who have heard of product placement before know this is no accident these items end up in frame. And it CAN work (but admittedly on a more subliminal level).
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