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Comments on news posted 2012-05-25 12:48:58: As we noted the other day, numerous broadcast executives have been whining about Dish's new DVR technology that will skip ads automatically -- a system that simply streamlines something most DVR users do anyway. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

1 edit

I am a betting man

And I am betting we will get more ads on TV WHILE watch the program..like how networks promote their own crap in the lower right corner of the screen.

Or maybe just 10 second commercials, more often? Who knows.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: I am a betting man

Or they'll find some way to fool the ad detection technology.

Either way, Dish won't get away with this for very long, at least not until it's time to renew retransmission agreements.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: I am a betting man

Dish isn't trying to "get away" with anything.

The industry is.

Dish is merely trying to give it's customers what they want.

The industry wants to control what those customers do in their own homes. Dish is on the moral and correct side.... which means, they'll probably lose... This is America!
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

1 edit

Re: I am a betting man

said by KrK:

Dish isn't trying to "get away" with anything.

The industry is.

Dish is merely trying to give it's customers what they want.

Actually what Dish is doing probably will be considered copyright infringement by the courts because there is a fundamental difference with the Betamax decision. Individual viewers using their already existing ability to skip commercials involves personal use rather than the profit motive. Dish is without permission altering copyrighted broadcasts for profit.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: I am a betting man

They aren't altering anything.

There is no grounds to copyright infringement claims.

The full recording is unaltered. The user can, at their discretion, can turn on a feature that will skip playback of parts of the recording. It will NOT change the recording or alter it in any way. No alteration of the work, no copyright infringement.

The Studios are going to use this case to try and roll back the Sony Betamax case that allowed recordings for home use as fair use. They would LOVE to overthrow this, as it would make ANY recording illegal unless they specifically allow it (IE you pay extra for it.)

They would LOVE to have previous precedents thrown out. Here's hoping it doesn't happen.

If watching a show at a different time from when it airs, and skipping commercials mean they label me a pirate, fine, I embrace piracy.... because it isn't and I know it.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

1 recommendation

Re: I am a betting man

said by KrK:

The full recording is unaltered.

Actually the broadcast is altered because it is recorded without the commercials and it's Dish (not the consumer) doing it to make a profit. A court ruling against Dish wouldn't change the precedent in the Betamax decision that VCRs and their fast forwarding controls have non-infringing uses and that non-commercial personal use of such devices is a fair use exception of copyright law.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: I am a betting man

No, the broadcast is recorded with the commercials. The consumer can then skip them if they so wish.
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: I am a betting man

said by KrK:

No, the broadcast is recorded with the commercials. The consumer can then skip them if they so wish.

Does the specific control Dish provides allow one to do something such as skip through public domain programming? No it has one sole (infringing) purpose of deleting all commercials from a copyrighted broadcast and Dish is without permission trying to make a profit from it. Saying the consumer has a choice doesn't change that.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: I am a betting man

You're missing the point.

Nothing is deleted. There is no infringement. What you are arguing is akin to saying that unless people sit and watch commercials they are committing copyright infringement.... better not get up, go to the bathroom or grab a drink, you're not watching the commercial.... you PIRATE

No. No infringement. None.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: I am a betting man

said by KrK:

You're missing the point.

Nothing is deleted. There is no infringement. What you are arguing is akin to saying that unless people sit and watch commercials they are committing copyright infringement.... better not get up, go to the bathroom or grab a drink, you're not watching the commercial.... you PIRATE

No you are missing the point that the Betamax decision was based on technology that also had non-infringing uses and even what the movie studios considered infringing was a fair use exception by consumers who were not attempting to make any profit from the technology. Only Dish (not consumers) is being sued for copyright infringement. Consumers going to the bathroom doesn't make them pirates and is completely irrelevant to the point.
Ghostmaker1

join:2011-07-11
Brunswick, OH
Sammer

It doesn't remove the commercial. The recorder just auto skips them. The commercials are still there. Not much different then skipping manually.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18
said by Sammer:

said by KrK:

The full recording is unaltered.

Actually the broadcast is altered because it is recorded without the commercials and it's Dish (not the consumer) doing it to make a profit.

Care to show where you read that it deletes/doesn't record the commercials? Skip does not equal delete/not record. It seems you do not understand the technology and how it actually works.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: I am a betting man

said by Doctor Olds:

Care to show where you read that it deletes/doesn't record the commercials? Skip does not equal delete/not record. It seems you do not understand the technology and how it actually works.

It doesn't matter whether it's called deleting, altering, or skipping it is an automated process that has no non-infringing purpose. As I pointed out in another post a fast forward control could allow you to fast forward through a program that is in the public domain. The court also granted you as a consumer (not Dish) a fair use exception that allows you to use the same fast forward control with copyrighted broadcasts.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by KrK:

Dish is merely trying to give it's customers what they want.

Dish doesn't own the content they are reselling. They can't give the customers what they want just because they want to.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: I am a betting man

They have paid for the right to transmit the content. They may not own it, but they have paid for it, and so therefore, can provide it the way customers want.... at least, until the content kings engage in anti-trust action to stop them.

What I suspect will happen is when the agreements come up for re-negotiating they will attempt to punish Dish and force them to disable this feature. Dish has handed themselves a protracted and expensive legal battle, but if they win it, then it will be of benefit for consumers everywhere. Go Dish.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
SilentMan

join:2002-07-15
New York, NY
said by fifty nine:

Or they'll find some way to fool the ad detection technology.

Either way, Dish won't get away with this for very long, at least not until it's time to renew retransmission agreements.

It's so easy to buy a TV capture card, install it on a PC and record the program; then download a video editing software to edit out all the commercials and then make a new ISO of the program, commercial free!

Oh! And if you like it so much that it needs to be preserved for posterity, the ISO only needs to be burned onto a blank DVD

rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105

Re: I am a betting man

See mythcommflag
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
said by SilentMan:

It's so easy to buy a TV capture card, install it on a PC and record the program; then download a video editing software to edit out all the commercials and then make a new ISO of the program, commercial free!

PCs, TV capture cards, video editing software, etc. all have non-infringing uses. What non-infringing use does this new technology that deletes all commercials from a copyrighted broadcast have?
TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26
Springfield, MO
Reviews:
·Mediacom

1 recommendation

Re: I am a betting man

You have to stop using the word 'delete.' It is factually inaccurate because nothing is actually deleted. The recording is not altered in any way.

Also, it's not 100% automatic. The consumer still has to activate the feature for it to work. How is that any different than fast-forwarding through the commercials manually?
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
said by fifty nine:


Dish won't get away with this for very long, at least not until it's time to renew retransmission agreements.

Speaking of renewing those agreements, what major station group in their right mind is going to allow Dish to keep doing this unless Dish is willing to pay them at Disney / ESPN levels? DirecTV and the cable companies will be more than willing to accept the additional business if Dish can no longer carry ABC, CBS, FOX, and NBC.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
The bottom line is that this is completely unworkable if it becomes widespread.

Prepare to either see ads become intrusive and placed while the shows are running (on top of them) or you will simply pay the real cost per channel. This means it will cost around $15-$20 per channel to watch TV.

You think retrans fee disputes are bad now? Dish just knocked over a hornet's nest.

Charlie is biting the hand that's feeding him, plain and simple.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: I am a betting man

If they try that, they'll lose tons of viewers. One day people are going to realize they don't need crap or they'll learn they aren't going to pay more then it's worth.

Then the "Content Kings" will find out they need to compete and deliver on what consumers want.

This may mean the end of good programming, but then again most of us would not watch much of it anymore. It will come full circle.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Uncle Paul

join:2003-02-04
USA
kudos:1
It means a greater reliance on product placement IN the tv show with cast almost doing a little mini live read for the product.

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

Re: I am a betting man

You known "Uncle Paul", I really use Summer's Eve. It makes me feel cool and clean, like a summer's eve.


--
Splat

Uncle Paul

join:2003-02-04
USA
kudos:1

Re: I am a betting man

I know you do... Remember, I'm your special Uncle.

But could you imagine a male police officer getting into the squad car and the shot shows him picking it up from the arm rest where his female partner had just put down her daily stuff as they prepare to head out for the day..

Joe: Really Mary?
Mary: Yea Joe, I'm a female and I really use Summer's Eve. It makes me feel cool and clean, like a summer's eve.

Just keepin it classy people... keepin it classy.

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·SureWest Internet
said by cableties:

You known "Uncle Paul", I really use Summer's Eve. It makes me feel cool and clean, like a summer's eve.


TROJAN MAAAAN!!!
--
The weekend is here, grab a can of beer!

vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA
Speaking of which, I could really go for a Drake's Coffee Cake.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
said by Uncle Paul:

It means a greater reliance on product placement IN the tv show with cast almost doing a little mini live read for the product.

Or we go back 60 years to the era of live TV where the action stopped so the actors could deliver a commercial before the story resumed.

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by Uncle Paul:

It means a greater reliance on product placement IN the tv show with cast almost doing a little mini live read for the product.

If ad skipping becomes more prevalent, you are right, product placement within the show will happen. That also deals with piracy issues. You can't edit out ads when they are integrated to the shows storyline and dialog.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
Coming soon to a TV show/movie near you...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjB6r-HDDI0

bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium
join:2001-06-09
Derry, NH
how is that any different than what is done now? For example On USA show Burn Notice on 2010 when Hyundai was introducing its new model Genesis Coupe the show made a point to show off the car and its abilities. Then you have in video games how Hyundai paid the studios behind Forza 3 to have special races/competitions for the Genesis AND had big advertizing spots for competetions with REAL prizes where you could win a real Genesis... nope, there are retail placements in most every entertainment medium today. Its just time hollywood and the networks come to grips the gravy train is over, the world has changed (again)

aciddrink

join:2000-08-26

1 recommendation

said by baineschile:

like how networks promote their own crap in the lowe right corner of the screen.

Another one of the driving forces that caused me to cancel my cable subscription and start pirating my TV shows.

Around the time I stopped watching TV, it was becoming common for that ad in the bottom right to expand to fill up 1/4 of the screen during the middle of your TV show. It would play an ad for 10-15 seconds, then shrink back down to the bottom right of the screen.

As if 4 minute commercial breaks aren't enough, now you have to interrupt my show for an intrusive ad as well?

Vote with your wallets

•••••

Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
What they could do is more product placement in the TV shows. I don't think we have enough. Then they could cut some of the ads out.

Or better yet, do "crawling" type of ads at the bottom of the screen. The way Syfy does to advertise a new show. lol.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4

Re: I am a betting man

said by Snakeoil:

What they could do is more product placement in the TV shows. I don't think we have enough. Then they could cut some of the ads out.

Or better yet, do "crawling" type of ads at the bottom of the screen. The way Syfy does to advertise a new show. lol.

Oh i HATE those crawlers! they're so distracting
WiFiTech

join:2012-05-26
Rogers, AR
Here is my two cents.
1) I pay for the Television Service. What this does or doesn't include is always murky at best.
-1a) Over the Air Television is supported by ads.
-1b) Over Cable/Satellite is supported by my subscription
-1c) I am recording a show to watch later, due to otherwise missing it anyways. So wouldn't have seen your commercial.

2) If you want me to watch your commercial during playback of a recording, then you need to hold the advertiser responsible for the product/service availability and pricing as ADVERTISED regardless of when I watch or re-watch the Show, I would love to have that New 2002 Cadillac Escalade EXT for $55,495 at 0% financing, or the home loan rate at 1% APR, or the Oil Change oil, filter included for $19.99.

Just my thought on it.

Of course there is always the "My time is valuable" so how about you pay me for my time to evaluate your commercial.

GlennAllen
Sunny with highs in the 80s
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA

1 recommendation

Good

Given that the "broadcast television ecosystem" has been "destroying the fundamental underpinnings" of our economy since the '50s, I guess it'll be a race to see who destroys whom first.

franknalco

join:2005-01-27
Littleton, CO

Re: Good

Touché.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Lame

When you pay for cable TV you pay for the commercials too. There's nothing morally wrong with skipping past the commercials you do not wish to watch.

I'd only sympathize with off-air programming which actually is paid for by commercials.
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America

Re: Lame

The OTA (network) channels are the only ones being affected, so I'd say they're rightfully a bit upset.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1

Go Dish

Consumers should welcome the destruction of the current television ecosystem. The prices are out of control and quality is degrading more and more.

My favorite TV entertainment, interestingly enough, does not include commercials.

I watch premium channel series like True Blood, Spartacus, Big C, Nurse Jackie, Boardwalk Empire, etc.

I also use Netflix to watch TV episodes without commercials. Some of these shows do not have the last 2-3 seasons available, but rather than keep up with these shows while they are still playing on the network channels with commercials each week, I've decided to watch other stuff until these are eventually made available to stream through Netflix.

Same situation with NFL RedZone. I find myself watching that over the local broadcast games, and I even start recording a sports event for about 30 minutes before I watch it, so that I can burn through the commercials until I finally catch up with the live showing near the end of the game/event.

Evidently, commercials are such an annoyance to me that I have altered my viewing habits to avoid them whenever possible. If they bug me too much, I'll do something else.

•••••

Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Charlotte, NC
kudos:1

Tivo

So I don't know anything about the Hopper other than it can do ad detection to skip commercials. But they TV industry bitched and moaned about Tivo and DVRs and Tivo had a programmable 30 second skip function so instead of fast forwarding you could hit FF twice or whatever and be done with the commercials.

I don't understand why they are mad if someone is watching live TV they can't skip the commercials anyway so whats the difference between the hopper and the Tivo besides the end user needing to physically hit fast forward?
--
That was the wild boar.... Moo!
My podcast: The Banzai Beat »www.banzaibeat.com

•••••
slckusr
Premium
join:2003-03-17
Greenville, SC
kudos:1

I wonder

If these cable,advertising,lawyer executive types have a DVR in their household.

jchambers28

join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR

I never watch

I never watch the ads and shit anyways.
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT

2 recommendations

Idiots...

"Their wrongheaded decision requires us to take swift action in order to aggressively defend the future of free, over-the-air television."

Except that this isn't free, over-the-air television. It's a subscription satellite company where the customers directly pay for the programming they watch in the form of monthly fees.

They also conveniently overlook the fact that such features are a direct response to the ever increasing amount of commercial time that the networks keep cramming into shows. An "hour" show is barely 40 minutes. A "half-hour" show is only 20 minutes. Think about that for a second; An "hour" show contains as much advertising as a "half-hour" show contains content!

Back in the 70s, shows had a full title sequence, short commercial breaks with maybe 5-8 minutes of ads per hour and then full closing credits. Now shows have a short title sequence and the cast list plays over the opening scene, 20 minutes of commercials per hour, annoying ads down in the corner of the screen (I've seen ads for actual products!) and then the credits are scrunched and whiz by too fast to read so that they can show you ads for other shows. Plus, don't forget all the product placement in the shows which is often jarring and in-your-face.

Couple that with steadily rising cable/satellite costs that can easily see people paying up to $160 a month (phone, internet & TV) even without premium channels and is it any wonder that people are getting fed up with all the extra crap invading their shows?

TV viewers see commercials as a necessary evil in order to watch their shows. TV execs see shows as a necessary evil in order to get people to watch their ads.

•••••••
AndyDufresne
Premium
join:2010-10-30
Chanhassen, MN

Dish is pushing limits.

Dish seems to be an outlier on the amount of pushback they are willing to do. They have Roku deal regarding distibution of international channels, they seem to be willing to let AMC,
IFC, WEtv, and Sundance deal expire at end of June due to price hikes of programming. Hope their current deals with Viacom,NBC, Disney, News Corp are long because am sure they are going to try their best to knock them down a notch next time those deal are up for renewal.

Rumor has it that they might even try to push ESPN to a la carte. That is when you will really see lawsuits fly.

chong67

join:2001-11-18
Jonesboro, GA

I been doing it for years

I am already doing it.

Mine is totally free.

I use HD OTA using WMC and using my free Comcast basic cable and SilconDust tuner.

I watch everything on delay cause early evening no time.

jaywv30

@frontiernet.net

Put the actors to work!

Maybe the actors can carry around signs that promote the products.
wahoospa

join:2006-03-23
Charleston, SC

Not Different

What Dish is doing is no worse then what the television scare in the 50's that the little screen would replace the big screen.

nonamesleft

join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric

Stop carrying network channels

Why do we need network trash channels on satellite? Dump them networks completely, most of the stuff on there is absolute rubbish anyways. A lot of the advertising is pretty abusive too, like certain insurance company ads, bragging ambulance chaser lawyer ads, absolutely drives a person nuts. Not to mention garbage reality shows and dancing with the stars.
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: Stop carrying network channels

said by nonamesleft:

Why do we need network trash channels on satellite? Dump them networks completely, most of the stuff on there is absolute rubbish anyways.

You may think so but the broadcast networks still have most of the highest rated shows. Dish is free to dump the broadcast stations as soon their retransmission consent agreements expire but is unlikely to do so. The subscription rates for both DirecTV and Dish skyrocketed after the law was changed to allow them to provide local broadcast channels. BTW it seems like some of the cable (satellite distributed) networks have more of the Paris Hilton, Kardashian style "reality" shows than you can shake a stick at.

nonamesleft

join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric

Re: Stop carrying network channels

said by Sammer:

said by nonamesleft:

Why do we need network trash channels on satellite? Dump them networks completely, most of the stuff on there is absolute rubbish anyways.

You may think so but the broadcast networks still have most of the highest rated shows. Dish is free to dump the broadcast stations as soon their retransmission consent agreements expire but is unlikely to do so. The subscription rates for both DirecTV and Dish skyrocketed after the law was changed to allow them to provide local broadcast channels. BTW it seems like some of the cable (satellite distributed) networks have more of the Paris Hilton, Kardashian style "reality" shows than you can shake a stick at.

Your right, cable is absolutely polluted too. We can all wish for a pick what you want for channels option, but it will never happen.
funny0

join:2010-12-22

And

MISSED ME ...i haven't seen an ad for years
i have the uber cool setup called

DOWNLOAD ....yes kids and adults you too can enjoy no more propaganda and lies by corporations, you can sit back pause , restart , re watch any time you want ( WOW isn't technology cool).

Best thing is as the legal ways you cant do it you just encrypt go ahead break whatever local laws and get this freely!!!!
WOOT now i have more money to spend in my local economies and make my community BETTER then yours that screws everyone.

HAVE A WICKED WEEKEND and remember when hollywood tells you you should pay more its a good thing....
Remember sitting on a 30000 dollar gold toilet also leads to hernia's.

Andy from CA
Premium
join:2008-09-05
Anaheim, CA

What next?

So what do the networks think of people grabbing the remote to channel surf while the commercials are on? Or people who use the bathroom or otherwise look elsewhere?

For some reason the latter reminds me of that scene from A Clockwork Orange. Now THAT'S a way to get people to watch the commercials.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4

Re: What next?

said by Andy from CA:

So what do the networks think of people grabbing the remote to channel surf while the commercials are on? Or people who use the bathroom or otherwise look elsewhere?

For some reason the latter reminds me of that scene from A Clockwork Orange. Now THAT'S a way to get people to watch the commercials.

Some networks are breaking surfing by synchronising when the ads come on so channel a, b, c and d all have ads at the same time!

Harddrive
Proud American and Infidel since 1968.
Premium
join:2000-09-20
DFW
kudos:2

What about...

all that shit at the bottom of the screen during the actual show you are watching. How many logos, adds for upcoming shows, and 'sponsored by' bullshit do we have to see? You miss most everything that happens on the bottom 1/5 of the screen because of this crap.
--
"The level of sacrifice that you give is beyond my comprehension. If the rest of us in the Country showed the level sacrifice that you do on a daily basis, we wouldn't have any of the problems we have." – Comedian Lewis Black speaking to the US troops.

rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105

What's next, sue the writers of mythcommflag?

I've got news, TV execs: I don't always type "z" when mythfrontend tells me there's an ad. I actually do watch an ad now and then. And because the algorithm is imprecise, I have it show a couple of seconds before the ad ends, so I see the tail end. And sometimes that last couple of seconds is so compelling that I skip back to watch it.

Another poster touched on what might happen: using lower thirds. I would imagine the producers would hate this, as it detracts from what one would put in the video frame, maybe even obscuring what they'd like to put there. (So what would they do in response? Letterbox the lower third and write it into the distribution contract with the network that the upper two thirds are not alterable or you don't get a license to distribute the content? dunno.) Also think of the YouTube overlay, and ad intro ("you may skip this ad in 5...4...3...2..."). Just like the MythTV case, I may like what I see and not click "skip." Heck, ads are sometimes entertainment too, so I'll watch them.

(BTW, YouTube...thank you for making this extraordinarily easy to bypass by adding URL filtering in my HTTP proxy.)

Finally, consider leaning more on writers and producers. For example, it was written right into an episode of "Eureka," where Jo was driving around in a Subaru WRX, and started talking with Fargo about it (of course mentioning it by name). And of course, Fargo was so enamored with Jo's WRX he had to get one for himself. Y'know...how many times would we very plainly see Coke, Ritz, and other brands on "Seinfeld?" Even the MythBusters were doing something close to radio's live read for (I think it was) Toyota. Those who have heard of product placement before know this is no accident these items end up in frame. And it CAN work (but admittedly on a more subliminal level).
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules.

Jeopardy! replies and randomcaps REALLY suck!
Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

I agree with the networks

I have TWC analog TV that I cannot give up. I live in a condo and am required to pay for it even though I had no TV set for 10 years until last September when I finally bought an HD TV. It's bulk rate for Oceanic Time Warner Cable analog TV for this building so not that expensive but I did have to pay for it for ten years when I was unable to use it since I had no TV. After I got my HD TV last fall, I did not add digital cable as I detest those horrific, ugly, crap cable boxes and the fact I would be forced to use Oceanic TWC's remote control rather than my Samsung.

So, I simply watch the network channels in HD via clear qam. I hate the cable crap channels but I very much like ABC, CBS, NBC and Hawaii Public TV. I don't mind the ads at all. If they bore me, I simply go in the kitchen or to the bathroom, etc during them. But many commercials are quite entertaining and, by having commercials, I am able to have HD broadcast channels for free over Time Warner Cable. Where I live, TV, very unfortunately, is NOT available over the air. One MUST have either cable or dish. I don't have any type of recorder to record TV shows and watch later. I learned the hard way with my fancy stereo VCR in the 90's that it was not worth all the hassle. Plus, I never found time to watch what I recorded. Yeah, I could skip ads that way but the entire concept was crap. I want to watch a TV program at the time that it airs and not at any other time and I don't want to obsessively watch it over and over. Once is plenty. So, I don't want to see free OTC and clear qam over cable disappear because some folks think they should be able to have their cake and eat it also.

The ads I HATE and will NOT view are internet ads. I have not seen an internet ad since 2000 (except when I rarely deliberately bypass the Proxomitron in order to view a specific ad). Internet ads not only carry viruses very frequently and, thus, are dangerous to one's computer but they are generally obnoxious and stupid and none are useful. TV ads are frequently quite sophisticated, interesting, and useful and don't cause your TV to fail because they carry viruses that affect the TV's ability to work properly.

I don't think Dish should be pulling this crap. I hope the broadcast channels prevail against them.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: I agree with the networks

said by Mele20:

After I got my HD TV last fall, I did not add digital cable as I detest those horrific, ugly, crap cable boxes and the fact I would be forced to use Oceanic TWC's remote control rather than my Samsung.

So, I simply watch the network channels in HD via clear qam. I hate the cable crap channels but I very much like ABC, CBS, NBC and Hawaii Public TV. I don't mind the ads at all. If they bore me, I simply go in the kitchen or to the bathroom, etc during them. But many commercials are quite entertaining and, by having commercials, I am able to have HD broadcast channels for free over Time Warner Cable. Where I live, TV, very unfortunately, is NOT available over the air. One MUST have either cable or dish..

The cable companies have already petitioned the FCC to allow them to encrypt the broadcast channels. It's supposed to reduce cable theft but it will really hurt people like you and the advertisers whose commercials you watch.

Trinijoy
Premium
join:2005-09-12
Brick, NJ

Oh no!!!

Oh no skipping commercials? It's the end of the world as we know it.

And this is why I don't pay for televsion. My Boost Plus Optimum online is all I need.

Thank you Netflix.

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

I am actually quite excited about this

as I would not be surprised to see this case quickly and easily decided for Dish.

As others said though, the TV companies WILL find a way around this though through either their millions spent in DC or....something.

Whether it is charging consumers MUCH more the next time around or bending other TV carries arms with forced commercials (with whatever pressure they can force)