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Comments on news posted 2012-05-30 09:44:36: AT&T is handling the migration toward IPv6 by -- shuffling U-Verse users around their IPv4 addresses? Users in our AT&T forum note that the telco has contacted many of them requesting that they make changes to their subnet. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · next

chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA

vpn

how's that different from using carrier-grade NAT in cellular services that assigns your internal ip address to 10.x.x range? I have had no problem connecting to my workplace using tethering and my VPN client on PC through IPSec. I have used company's provided att agn client though.


kapil
The Kapil

join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

LOL

Knowing AT&T, this doesn't surprise me at all....given two options, AT&T will always pick whichever one is more idiotic.

Although I thought what is being called "carrier grade NAT" actually had a whole new IPv4 network set aside for it by IANA pending an IETF RFC on the subject...precisely so that existing CPE already using NAT doesn't' conflict with the private IPs being use by the provider.
--
»www.kapilville.com

nanaki333

join:2010-08-11
Chantilly, VA

1 recommendation

reply to chgo_man99

Re: vpn

because you're not connecting another router to your cell service, then connecting your phone to that router.

kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL

I know it says U-Verse........

users are getting these letters, but can anyone confirm this won't be effecting vanilla DSL only customers in U-Verse served markets?
--
Jeff Howe
Jeff's Blog - »www.ostjournal.net


mix

join:2002-03-19
Utica, MI
reply to chgo_man99

Re: vpn

Congratulations. But you obviously have never tried to make a vpn connection from any other network to yourself.


JigglyWiggly

join:2009-07-12
Pleasanton, CA
reply to kaila

Re: I know it says U-Verse........

won't this screw up people who play games online and ever need to create their own lobbies even with upnp applciations?

Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

1 recommendation

reply to nanaki333

Re: vpn

IPSec encapsulated into UDP packets (e.g., for NAT pass-through) should work just fine regardless of how many layers of NAT there are.

Not that this move on AT&T's part isn't completely idiotic. It will break a number of different applications; file transfers via IM, IRC or any other service that depends on identd, various gaming applications, remote access into webcams/rdp/other products at home.

It will also degrade services like Skype that rely on at least one end of the connection not being behind NAT. Skype will work with both ends NAT'ed but it winds up routing through a third party that isn't behind NAT; this can have the effect of degrading the video/audio quality and even if it works is far from ideal.

Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
reply to mix
How many residential customers really need to do that?

Incoming VPN's are also a PITA with dynamic IP addresses. If you need such services you should probably be paying for a static IP address; I pay $10/mo for a static IP from Frontier for exactly that reason.

ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Northland Cable ..
·Time Warner Cable
·ooma
·VOIPO
·Verizon Broadban..
said by Crookshanks:

Incoming VPN's are also a PITA with dynamic IP addresses.

Not really. I am very successfully running not only site-to-site IPSEC VPN with dynamic IP's but mobile-to-site VPN as well with very few, if any issues.

DNS services like dyndns.org are your friend.

bpfremm

join:2002-01-04
Milwaukee, WI

Helping the pirates?

How will the MPAA, and RIAA track users by IP address then? Seems like they might be helping the pirates out.


PToN
Premium
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX

1 recommendation

Setting up....

They are setting up for the 3 or 6 strike piracy policy shit they are coming up with...

They cannot say that CGN is easier to setup than implementing RFC compliant IPv6...

In my area there are only ATT and Comcast...

nanaki333

join:2010-08-11
Chantilly, VA
reply to ke4pym

Re: vpn

yep. beat me to it. i've been using dyndns for everys (over a decade?) and never paid (or had my work pay) for a home static address. site-to-site VPN to work and PPTP for when i'm on travel to access my home servers.

ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

1 recommendation

No letter for me

I haven't received one of these letters, not even in the att.net mail account that I never use for anything, so I'm guessing this is being rolled out only to certain users.

I wonder what AT&T's plan is when they discover that this is an unmitigated disaster.

nanaki333

join:2010-08-11
Chantilly, VA
reply to nanaki333

Re: vpn

that was supposed to say years....

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

reply to kapil

Re: LOL

They do, it is 100.64.x.x but of course AT&T being the morons they are think they can do whatever they want and not follow along with what they should.

Quite possibly the worst company ever!


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:25
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..

1 recommendation

reply to Crookshanks

Re: vpn

Let's also not forget about game consoles. There are a ton of users out there and most of the game consoles complain if you're even behind one NAT. If Carrier grade NAT Goes into effect, expect a lot of trouble with people getting NAT3 on their devices and games not being able to work nicely. That community will certainly suffer as well from Carrier Grade NAT.

Also, piping a ton of people through a single IP address is going to also give website owners and gameserver owners a ton of grief. If there's a DDoS taking place, or if someone needs to get IP Banned there isn't a unique identifier. You wind up blocking the NAT with IP Ban which ultimately winds up blocking a ton of people. They'd have to create an easily avoided way of blocking abusers by means of CD Key Detection (if even possible for some games), account detection (again, if support is there) or nick detection (avoidable).

Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
reply to ke4pym
You _can_ do an ipsec tunnel with a dynamic IP address but can be royal PITA with certain routers; Cisco's ASAs in particular have caused me many headaches over the years.

In any case, I'm left wondering how many residential users need the ability to do site-to-site VPNs. I presume you are using such a VPN for business purposes? You could still make it work if you initiated the connection from the end behind NAT; if that doesn't work I doubt AT&T will have any sympathy for you when you tell them you're trying conduct business over your residential connection.

Services like Skype and online gaming will be much more noticeable to the typical residential customer.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

Services such as Dynamic DNS (DDNS) will no longer work

»www.networkworld.com/columnists/ ··· l?page=1

Chewyrobbo

join:2005-04-12
Tacoma, WA

6RD Tunneling

Now Comcast, as much as they anger me sometimes, already dropped 6RD after starting a trial almost two years ago.

AT&T never fails to show me lack of innovation.

hga

join:2008-05-09
Joplin, MO

1 edit

1 recommendation

It's probably about the money

Maybe that is the key here, getting another $15/month?

I suspect so, given that I recently read that the going rate for public IPv4 addresses is around that much, although with some research it looks like that depends on quantity. This site (»tradeipv4.com/) is quoting a single figure of $8 (that's for a sale; $1/year to lease).

So AT&T gets to repurpose a large quantity of valuable addresses and you get to pay an additional $15 per month for the privilege of getting the same level of service you've been getting since you got your connection from them.

This would be in character for a company who's CEO in 2006 ignited the Net Neutrality firestorm with some fantastically ill chosen comments (»www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ··· 8092.htm) ; among other things it was estimated this cost AT&T a billion dollars when they later bought Bell South....

It could also help explain how people are being forced to "upgrade" to U-verse DSL from plain DSL. I'm stuck with plain AT&T DSL, if they extend this policy/architecture to us I won't like paying nearly 50% more to enjoy the same service.

(Why do I stick with them? Not even sure if the local cable monopoly will serve us and AT&T's service is rock solid for me and my family in this town.)


Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

reply to Crookshanks

Re: vpn

I do it all the time on a residential connection.
I use dyndns.org. It is a free url linked to your dynamic IP. It updates as your ip changes.
No reason to pay for anything.


whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to JigglyWiggly

Re: I know it says U-Verse........

said by JigglyWiggly:

won't this screw up people who play games online and ever need to create their own lobbies even with upnp applciations?

Yes it will. This is why it's important to move to IPv6 to preserve the end-to-end principle.

CGN is going to be the new standard on the IPv4 Internet. Lee Howard has a good presentation about TWC's CGN plans,

»www.asgard.org/images/TCO_of_CGN ··· _CGN.pdf


maartena
Elmo
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:4

The day I lose a public, routable IP address.....

The day I lose a public, routable IP address.....is the day I will call Time Warner Cable to replace U-Verse.
--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"


whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

said by maartena:

The day I lose a public, routable IP address.....is the day I will call Time Warner Cable to replace U-Verse.

And then use TWC for another 6 months to a year until they deploy CGN.

It's not a problem going away. The solution is use IPv6.

In fact, ARIN won't get any new IPv4 addresses. Addresses returned get returned into the IANA pool. Those will go to APNIC where the need is greatest.


swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
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1 recommendation

reply to maartena
said by maartena:

The day I lose a public, routable IP address.....is the day I will call Time Warner Cable to replace U-Verse.

Who says TWC won't do it as well? The slide show posted above at least shows they are or have looked into it.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts


morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to hga

Re: It's probably about the money

said by hga:

(Why do I stick with them? Not even sure if the local cable monopoly will serve us and AT&T's service is rock solid for me and my family in this town.)

Maybe you should at least see if it's an option -- unless you are content paying $15 more per month for the same service.

Samwoo

join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA

1 edit

2 recommendations

reply to Chewyrobbo

Re: 6RD Tunneling

Well, if they are going to use tunneling for IPV6 (I assume they don't want update their internal routers), they still fall into the IPv4 address shortage, because they would still need IPv4 to route the tunnels across their internal network.

So I'm going to guess that they are using carrier grade NAT to fix the problem of routing across their IPv4 network in order to support the 6RD tunnels.

This would mean you can still have a public IPv6 address, but setting up networks for legacy software will break. And that will be a pain in the short term when software is still transitioning.

I don't know if I should be too bothered about it. Whatever the carrier does to do implement IPv6, it will involve getting rid of your public IPv4 address anyways.

IPv4 is going to be legacy soon, and of course they will charge a premium to support legacy implementations.

I guess the only way around this is to fully transition all the services on your end to IPv6 before AT&T destroys support for your IPv4 address.

One other way to handle this problem is to make an IPv4 tunnel (on top of your 6RD tunnel... ... ...) to a proxy on the internet which will hold your public IPv4 address and through which the internet could access your network.......................


jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:3

1 recommendation

This is no longer an internet connection

This is now a private network with internet connectivity.

I'd be pissed.

BiggA
Premium
join:2005-11-23
EARTH

CGN is smart

CGN is what should have been used instead of IPv6 the world over. It's proven to work, and 95% of customers don't need a public IP, and the ones who do should pay extra.

It already works on the cell network, and on some large Wifi networks, so we know it works. I've actually seen it work a lot BETTER than assigning public IP's, as it just makes more up, instead of running out of public IP's.


nightshade74
Yet another genxer
Premium
join:2004-11-06
Prattville, AL
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..

1 recommendation

Non issue

It's a non issue -- unless you like
FTP, Bit Torrent, XBOX Network, Netflix,
Gaming, 6to4, VOIP, etc...

»tools.ietf.org/html/draft-donley ··· pacts-01