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Comments on news posted 2012-06-08 09:31:31: It's 2012, and while politicians like to proclaim that the United States is a broadband leader, the reality on the ground is anything but. ..


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

3 recommendations

Opinions Are Fun!

quote:
Anti-municipal broadband bills are protectionist nonsense crafted by predatory bullies and passed by corrupt political halfwits.
And for those of us who are sick of local governments spending money they don't have (especially when they like to claim they are "broke") on such things, they are a breath of fresh air.
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.
Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

You're ignoring the other 99% of discretionary spending that provides absolutely no public benefit. It's not questioned because predators and creeps are making money off it. Nah, just keep your eyes closed and rock yourself to sleep.
Telco

join:2008-12-19

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

If Rush, Beck, and fixed news station say it's so then it must be true.

Unlike the 20 to 30 "mainstream media" outlets that are apparently biased and 'colluding' with one another.
Chubbysumo

join:2009-12-01
Superior, WI
Reviews:
·Charter
said by pnh102:

quote:
Anti-municipal broadband bills are protectionist nonsense crafted by predatory bullies and passed by corrupt political halfwits.
And for those of us who are sick of local governments spending money they don't have (especially when they like to claim they are "broke") on such things, they are a breath of fresh air.

99% of the rest of their discresionary spending has no real public benefit(i know, i was very close to a medium sized city mayor). Most of these public broadband projects are financed with bonds that are payed back at such a low interest rate, that it does not affect the general funds budget ever, and only a very small portion of the actual funding comes directly from the city's general budget.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 recommendation

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

said by Chubbysumo:

Most of these public broadband projects are financed with bonds that are payed back at such a low interest rate, that it does not affect the general funds budget ever, and only a very small portion of the actual funding comes directly from the city's general budget.

California, Illinois and many other now broke states have used bonds as a financing vehicle for many public works projects.

We all know how that turned out.
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.
Telco

join:2008-12-19

1 edit

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

Take out the Fed bosom that almost every red state but Texas and the GOP states are the next Greece.

The majority of states that receive more than they contribute in Federal taxes for example, are Red states. The majority of states that 'contribute' more than they receive are blue states. Funny how fixed / faux news and co fail to mention this huge fact.
biochemistry
Premium
join:2003-05-09
92361
Local governments DO have the right to spend money and since they have this right, who is Time Warner and AT&T to tell them how they should or should not spend it. It should be left up to the LOCAL government to decide how the money is spent. That is the beauty of having a LOCAL government so OUTSIDERS cannot dictate what goes on.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

said by biochemistry:

Local governments DO have the right to spend money and since they have this right ...

And the state governments have every right to tell the local governments that they cannot do this.

Local government already has enough responsibilities. And just about every local government is whining that tax revenue is down and that services need to be cut back as a result. More reckless spending is not going to help solve that problem.
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

I'm going to venture a guess that you have a direct interest in these things not working out because it puts the local duopolies on notice and hurts their potential profits by a) requiring them to invest to compete b) takes away some of the money they get for doing nothing.

That makes you a partial person and thus your opinion means nothing.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

said by Skippy25:

I'm going to venture a guess that you have a direct interest in these things not working out ...

If my town decided to do something like this I would, as a taxpayer, be absolutely livid, especially if the same local government was talking about cutbacks to police, firefighters, paramedics, schools, libraries and other such things.

Let the people who *want* this put their own private funds on the line and build all the broadband service they wish, but keep those of us who are not interested in such things out of it.
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

Thats fine, let you be livid and show that in your next vote or at a counsel meeting.

But if my town rejected doing something like this I would be livid. If my town put this to a vote and a majority of the people voted for it and they didnt do it, I would be really livid.

I expect my town to provide me needed services that the private sector is not providing. I consider broadband to be a needed service and I expect them to provide if the local private sector wont. I would even take it far enough to give them (failing private sector) an ultimatum that they provide service or have their ability to do business removed.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

said by Skippy25:

But if my town rejected doing something like this I would be livid. If my town put this to a vote and a majority of the people voted for it and they didnt do it, I would be really livid.

If a majority of people who supported such a thing were also made to pay for it directly, with no such costs being imposed on people who did not support such a thing, then I might be inclined to be less livid.

What I don't get is that is exactly what can happen now. Any interested group of individuals can pool their own resources, secure financing and create a local non-profit organization that can do this. The local government can help by simply granting all the requisite permits and such and the interests of all involved would be respected.
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.

firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

said by pnh102:

If a majority of people who supported such a thing were also made to pay for it directly, with no such costs being imposed on people who did not support such a thing, then I might be inclined to be less livid.

I agree, a refund for some middle east wars, some school taxes for sports teams expenses, refund for local adjustments for farm land tax exemptions, refund for federal farm subsidies, oh I don't like the local sheriff either so I need that tax refunded. I didn't support any of these of course.
--
Say no to JAMS!
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
Your full of it.

The city/town officials are there to provide for their citizens and if a majority of them say do it, then they should do it. Expecting the ones that only support it to pay for a city/town wide benefit is just silly. With that thought no schools, libraries, roads or many other benefits you yourself enjoy would be there.

In addition, the build it yourself(ves) mentality is getting old. 1.) You and I know it is too cost prohibitive 2.) They are trying and the corps don't like it and this anti-city/town doing it is only one angle they will take. If private citizens tried themselves they would still fight it but from a different angle.
scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
I appreciate your position on this matter, but remember that your run-of-the-mill phone service, your run-of-the-mill electrical service, your run-of-the-mill postal service, your run-of-the-mill police service, your run-of-the-mill fire service, your run-of-the-mill paved road, and so on and so forth - in order words, so many of the things that you and I now take for granted - have been historically subsidized at some point by making the "haves" pay a little more in order to benefit the "have nots". For example, way-back-when it was relatively easy and profitable to provide phone service to city dwellers (high population density and so on), but much less so to folks outside of the cities, so it took a government mandate and subsidies to make this happen - which I (as a city dweller) help pay for via my phone bill.

In other words, we've been down this road before, and we've found a way to make it happen - up until recently, anyway. And no, it hasn't always been the most cost-effective, efficient, or "profitable" process - at least not by the standards on which private industry would judge it.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Util···_Service
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Service_Fund
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_delivery_service

etc, etc.

geturown

@myvzw.com

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

The fact that a mandate was bought or begged from thieving politicians and used to get something done doesn't mean it should have been. If you think the haves somehow owe others anything you must be one.of those who think they.got their wealth illegitimately or in some.unscrupulous manner so now they 'owe' it back. It's always 'we just want a little bit more' so now 10 percent pay 80 of the taxes. We, the haves, who worked our butts off for what we earned, owe you nothing. Zero. That's right, we earned it by hard work. The ones that didn't used exactly the kind of government cronyism and corruption you are.promoting to get wealth they never deserved. That means less government theft and far fewer government services would result in far fewer unjustly wealthy people and companies and much more opportunity for everyone to get asa much wealth as they are willing to work for.
This selfish little excuse that you think you deserve something because you want it and, oh horrors, those you envy have more than you or anyone else that so many use to justify avoiding having to pay their own way or avoid work is pathetic. Guess what ? There will always be some people who have more than you. They may choose to give you some but that do not owe it to you or anyone else who did nothing to earn it.
And that means that.some.people will not have what others do, ever.
If you think governments stealing from the wealthy makes a society or the individuals in it better off then you.must be ignoring the last 100 years of history at a minimum. Go visit North Korea, Cuba or even Russia and China and see what forced 'fairness' has done for their wretched poor. Look at the bankrupt socialist welfare states who stole , borrowed and inflated their currencies to make life 'fair' for everyone.
No, 'fair' is people getting what they deserve, good or bad, much or little.
If you think people deserve more feel free to hand over all you have and work as a slave for their benefit. No one is stopping you. But keep your hands off everyone else's stuff and stop pretending people that your wants are somehow your rights. Stealing makes neither party better off in the end, you just have a dead goose and no more golden eggs Plus no one left remembers how to work for anything and the poverty just.keeps getting worse
Oh yeah, the geese are tired of getting plucked by the lazy dogs and.justoght start biting back. So good luck on that making everybody else pay for your stuff. Pray you aren't the who knocks on my door demanding I give you my money.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

Your post is an emotional rant that flies in the face of hypocrisy and contradiction.

The 'Haves' (which you are incorrectly identifying yourself as) certainly do OWE the system by which they make their billions. Rather than contribute to the expenses of that system, they cheap out and want to be separate from it when the bill comes. People should pay into supporting the system based on how much benefit they get out of it. In other words, the top dogs should be paying a HELL OF A LOT MORE than they currently are.

10% of the people pay 80% of the taxes... so what?! That's because 50% of the people are so dirt poor that they can barely afford to live much less support the system that screws them over.

The Haves do not work their butts off, they have workers (a/k/a, the Have Nots) that do that while they sit back and collect the golden eggs. The WORKERS ARE the goose. What the Haves do is to pay some of their "hard earned cash" to lobby those thieving politicians to keep the system in their favor... nothing more.

You seem to be of the belief that most people are lazy and just sit back and claim the welfare they are entitled to... this is a highly distorted view of whats really going on out there. Since this view is touted so strongly by the pro-oligarch talking heads (Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, et al) as being the 'reason for all of our problems', angry people find it a convienient excuse to rant about. It is not reality.

Consider yourself LUCKY that you got the education that you used to become 'successful'. Perhaps your parents were well-off enough to send you to private school? If 50% of the people are so poor that they don't pay taxes, do you really think they can afford private school for their kids? Perhaps it is coincidental that Public Education is one of the very things that is under attack by the Haves?

Unfortunately I think you missed something in that education... morality, compassion, an understanding of the system as a whole rather than just the tunnel vision of your own greed. It's time to go back to school.

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

Talk about an emotional rant. Yours takes the cake and is the usual confiscate money from the rich. Unfortunately if that is done, all the jobs go away.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

Thanks, I try

I find it amusing that when the rich have to pay their fair share, we hear 'stealing' and 'confiscate' and similar language. When the economy is being destroyed (in part) by forcing people to fund multiple wars in the name of big business, the language changes to 'support', 'necessary', 'good'.

The idea that taxing the rich makes jobs go away is ridiculous and not supported by history or fact. Trickle Down Economics is a lie, it simply doesn't work; they money stays at the top. I don't expect you to change your mind based on my post but at least go do your own research rather than listening to Fox news.
Expand your moderator at work
TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26
Springfield, MO
Reviews:
·Mediacom
If a tax bill passes via a majority rule, you don't get to skip out on it because you don't support it. That's not how a democracy works.

As for your 'any interested group of individuals,' clearly you don't know what kind of capital it takes to build out a network. No small amount of people will be able to 'pool their own resources' to 'secure financing' for it. Get real.

ff1324
Everybody Goes Home
Premium
join:2002-08-24
On Four Day
Be livid about the fact that this is not an instance of local residents demanding a restriction locally. It's an instance of a corporation preventing competition by preventing the local residents from even having a chance and approving or rejecting the project. While you don't think your municipality should tackle a community broadband project, what gives you the right to say that my local government shouldn't be allowed to do it?

You wanting to lkmit what we do here sounds a little too "big government" to me.
--
My rants get raves.

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

said by ff1324:

Be livid about the fact that this is not an instance of local residents demanding a restriction locally. It's an instance of a corporation preventing competition by preventing the local residents from even having a chance and approving or rejecting the project. While you don't think your municipality should tackle a community broadband project, what gives you the right to say that my local government shouldn't be allowed to do it?

You wanting to lkmit what we do here sounds a little too "big government" to me.

It is state govt(not big govt) that is deciding and all the law does is make sure the locals get a real actual vote on the plan and that a municipal cable system isn't just approved and pushed forward by the mayor & his 2 or 3 cronies on the town council.
tdar

join:2004-04-05
Satellite Beach, FL
kudos:1
said by pnh102:

If a majority of people who supported such a thing were also made to pay for it directly, with no such costs being imposed on people who did not support such a thing, then I might be inclined to be less livid.

And this is where your right wing ideology fails. We still live in a society ,were we are still trying to make life better for us all. NOT just for you. It is not ALL ABOUT YOU. You want to be an American, then be one and work to raze up our country and not put your selfish interests ahead of what's best for our country that all of your fellow right wingers profess to love so much.
Expand your moderator at work

Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
Are you as livid while these corrupt corporations waste tons of money on constant political greasing, courtroom visits, wasting taxpayer money every time, for politicians that should be doing something else?

If you are so content with local government rights being thrown out due to the economy, why don't you kindly give up everything? After all, we can't pay for it, so it's obvious you should give up your rights. There's no planning ahead, no time in the future where you would have money huh?


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

said by Metatron2008:

Are you as livid while these corrupt corporations waste tons of money on constant political greasing, courtroom visits, wasting taxpayer money every time, for politicians that should be doing something else?

I could not care less what a corporation or any other private interest does with its own money.
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

Of course you don't as wont any other corporate shill that thinks companies like AT&T should be able to legally bribe, cheat and steal as long as it means bigger returns on their investment.
scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
"... its own money"? Don't you mean, "the money that I pay them"?

You should care, because this directly affects how much you pay for any services which they may be providing to you! I don't mind so much paying a bit extra on my phone bill in order to subsidize rural phone service, for example (this is even broken out nicely as a line item on my bill, typically), but I am livid at the thought of paying for high-priced lobbyists, lawyers, and such (this cost is bundled into the main bill), because I pay AT&T enough money every month already! Not to mention the corresponding legal costs that will eventually show up on my tax bills.
Expand your moderator at work
tdar

join:2004-04-05
Satellite Beach, FL
kudos:1

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

said by scross:

"... its own money"? Don't you mean, "the money that I pay them"?

You should care, because this directly affects how much you pay for any services which they may be providing to you! I don't mind so much paying a bit extra on my phone bill in order to subsidize rural phone service, for example (this is even broken out nicely as a line item on my bill, typically), but I am livid at the thought of paying for high-priced lobbyists, lawyers, and such (this cost is bundled into the main bill), because I pay AT&T enough money every month already! Not to mention the corresponding legal costs that will eventually show up on my tax bills.

Yes and fully yes. But it does not stop there. When ATT decides to go after this in Tennessee because they are afraid of having to compete with what they have built in Chattanooga, then it will be your tax money that will be being spent to defend against this in court, it will be your tax money being spent on having your state government wasting it's time debating these bills, rather than say fixing your real problems.

On and as an aside, now that Chattanooga has done what they have, watch all of the jobs flow over to that side of the state rather than your side as your internet can not compete.

toby
Troy Mcclure

join:2001-11-13
Portland, OR
said by pnh102:

said by Skippy25:

I'm going to venture a guess that you have a direct interest in these things not working out ...

If my town decided to do something like this I would, as a taxpayer, be absolutely livid, especially if the same local government was talking about cutbacks to police, firefighters, paramedics, schools, libraries and other such things.

Let the people who *want* this put their own private funds on the line and build all the broadband service they wish, but keep those of us who are not interested in such things out of it.

Its ok for other residents in your community and state to pay for schools for your children to use?

Same thing, some people use the resources, some people don't.

Cancel your internet plan, then see how these people feel.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

said by toby:

Its ok for other residents in your community and state to pay for schools for your children to use?

We don't use public schools either.

But to belabor your point, let's go the other way and have everything run by the government, since after all, some people use those things too, right?
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.

jordan

@morrisdickson.com

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

You're not belaboring a point, you're creating a straw man. No one is suggesting that the gov't run everything. We're suggesting that the gov't step in where there's a public need and private corporations aren't interested in serving that need.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
said by pnh102:

If my town decided to do something like this I would, as a taxpayer, be absolutely livid, especially if the same local government was talking about cutbacks to police, firefighters, paramedics, schools, libraries and other such things.

Let the people who *want* this put their own private funds on the line and build all the broadband service they wish, but keep those of us who are not interested in such things out of it.

Ironically police, firefighters, paramedics, schools, libraries, and other such things all have private company equivalents. Why aren't you yelling and screaming that the private sector shouldn't be doing all these activities as well?

HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
said by pnh102:

said by Skippy25:

I'm going to venture a guess that you have a direct interest in these things not working out ...

If my town decided to do something like this I would, as a taxpayer, be absolutely livid, especially if the same local government was talking about cutbacks to police, firefighters, paramedics, schools, libraries and other such things.

Let the people who *want* this put their own private funds on the line and build all the broadband service they wish, but keep those of us who are not interested in such things out of it.

You'd be absolutely livid until you found out that your cost was cheaper than your current ISP and your speed was much faster. Ala Utopia in Utah.
--
Capturing the images of Colorado
»jdebordphoto.com
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
Totally agree with you! How can spend money on bonds and pay for them with you're broke and can't even afford to pay for police or fire? or even pay to pave streets?

Soon this will be all over with, after November and all new reps and such are voted for, DC will be passing the Muni bill band and will BLOCk and end these projects from happening.
Telco

join:2008-12-19

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

Actually, we cannot pay for those things because your party bankrupted the country and then scapegoated the teachers, police, unions, and Obama.

Forgetting that unlike other nations, we derive a large percentage of our local revenue from personal property. Therefore, once an economy tanks, guess what falls drastically straight away. Now one more guess regarding how schools, police, and firefighters are funded.

In addition, add in the millions who lost their job, that not only heavily reduced state revenue, we are also had to pay for unemployment. Once again, the rest of America is left footing the bills for corporations; whose profits might I add, have increased year after year since 07.

However to you guys, you do not see a problem or even the rationale of any of this. It's apparently the 7% of Americans left in unions and the length of unemployment benefits that is to blame for everything.
tdar

join:2004-04-05
Satellite Beach, FL
kudos:1
said by 25139889:

Totally agree with you! How can spend money on bonds and pay for them with you're broke and can't even afford to pay for police or fire? or even pay to pave streets?

Soon this will be all over with, after November and all new reps and such are voted for, DC will be passing the Muni bill band and will BLOCk and end these projects from happening.

You do know that these Muni bonds are paid back using revenues from the service fees on the provided service right? NO tax dollars are being spent here. But hey, why let the facts get in the way. OH and these things create jobs , your not for jobs?

Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net
The point of this discussion is that the likes of AT&T are lobbying to get legislation passed that says local govts CANNOT set up public broadband services for their constituents. Whether or not the city or county is fiscally responsible and able to achieve this is another story. I would deeply resent some private company telling me what I can and cannot do if I were in a position of city government. This is not some noble act but a cold calculated act designed to prevent revenue erosion for these private companies. They offer no alternative to the lack of services but are making damned sure that these under-served (by design) markets are unable to help themselves.
The whole concept of Federal trumping state, state trumping city/county in decisions like this is a huge load of bovine excrement. When the Feds or the State or the private sector can offer a solution that is not a rape job on the consumer then "maybe" people will be more open to it.
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Okay, so this week the Republican base loves government again. Too bad for the last 3 decades you have been rallying against anything and everything that starts with gov.

I think we all see what is going on here though. You guys do not hate government; rather, you hate it when 'We the People' get to benefit from our government. And we all now how much the GOP base hates a to z Americans.

It's quite evident that you have no problems with private corporations buying your elected (R) officials and then forcing their profit protecting schemes on the American people.

Not to mention, laughable considering you guys love the free market and no regulation. However, will use the same government to shore up monopolies and duopolies. Which in actual fact, is a hindrance to the free market model and must be prevented at any cost.
viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
Give it up. Hypocrites are hypocrites.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
said by biochemistry:

Local governments DO have the right to spend money and since they have this right, who is Time Warner and AT&T to tell them how they should or should not spend it. It should be left up to the LOCAL government to decide how the money is spent. That is the beauty of having a LOCAL government so OUTSIDERS cannot dictate what goes on.

Local governments have the right to spend money - but they have to follow the law, which generally will prohibit them from going in direct competition with the very franchises they licensed to the MSO and LEC.

There are a half-dozen legal ways to introduce a 3rd last-mile player into a community without having it run and funded by the government and inviting legal challenge, and without DICTATING that your neighbors must subsidize a service they don't want or use, just because the mob doesn't want to pay their own way.

•••

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by pnh102:

quote:
Anti-municipal broadband bills are protectionist nonsense crafted by predatory bullies and passed by corrupt political halfwits.
And for those of us who are sick of local governments spending money they don't have (especially when they like to claim they are "broke") on such things, they are a breath of fresh air.

What will all those local pols do with no community broadband organization to hire their slacker children and in-laws?

footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO

Re: Opinions Are Fun!

said by FFH5:

What will all those local pols do with no community broadband organization to hire their slacker children and in-laws?

Send them to the licensing agencies.
--
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty - Ronald Reagan
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Indeed, those of us, your own words, not corporate America. What right does corporate America have to command our government and dictate how we should live?

How can the Republican voter base be so clueless as to what is really going on here. That you no longer have a say in your life and country, only the wealthy and corporations with their deep pockets.

What sort of a fool actually nods in approval and says wow what a great way to live.

Harddrive
Proud American and Infidel since 1968.
Premium
join:2000-09-20
DFW
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Disgusted.

It's so sickening how big business owns politicians. Welcome to The United States of Corporate America.

•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Let the people decide, put it to a vote

IMO if the people vote yes to broadband than that should automatically close ALL court cases trying to stop it and nullify all state laws that prevent it. This is one case where state law and the court have no place in taking control of the matter.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Re: Let the people decide, put it to a vote

If the average citizen were to vote for such a bill, AT&T would dump millions of dollars to run ads to make that happen by spinning their lobbied bill as a good thing.

footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
said by Kearnstd:

IMO if the people vote yes to broadband than that should automatically close ALL court cases trying to stop it and nullify all state laws that prevent it. This is one case where state law and the court have no place in taking control of the matter.

Does that apply to all the voter referendums that get shot down by courts and/or legislatures? We had a voter referendum on dog kennel rules here last year and the first thing the legislature did upon reconvening was trash it.
--
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty - Ronald Reagan
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

1 edit

Corporate Brain Washing!

Strange the State, County and Cities have been building and improving roads all over Lake County, Florida and no one complains. Except for the new toll roads Government does not expect any monetary reward for their efforts. On the other hand whenever Government takes any action to extend broadband service to underserved residents, competitive ISP's go NUTS! Results: Fascists 1, Residents 0

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GlennAllen
Sunny with highs in the 80s
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA

Million$ for bribe$,

nothing for build-outs.
Os

join:2011-01-26
US
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

If They're So Bad, Let Them Fail

If this were truly a capitalist system (it's not), then we'd let government invest in such projects, and if government was so inherently evil and inefficient, then every single community fiber project would fail and the companies would be validated, as would the free-marketers ideology. They could even buy the networks for pennies on the dollar afterward.

So why don't they want a real world example? Oh right, because this isn't a capitalist system, competition isn't welcomed, and they don't want us seeing how they're offering us outdated technology at premium prices. They don't want us to know how bad we really have it.

Look at what FiOS has done in the NY Metro area. Cablevision and TWC fought back with lower prices and escalated their options quickly. Everyone WINS when we have choice. Except corporate profits. They have to FIGHT to win their customers. And that's not something they want to handle.

For all the talk about welfare, single mothers aren't the biggest recipient, it's the conglomerates like AT&T that are always asking for and getting the handouts.

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HaloFans

join:2006-12-18

Mitt Romney supporters approve!

Corporations are people, my friend.

Who wants to help South Carolina anyway?

Make a law that reduces burden so that these poor corporations can still finish buying their yearly yacht purchases.

What's wrong with that?

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hyphenated

@bellsouth.net

100Mbps

If big bell is going to stop this, are THEY going to install broadband?

Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state

Re: 100Mbps

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14

Kommie
Premium
join:2003-05-13
united state
kudos:3

Corporate America fears Socialsim

Corporate America fears Socialism. Muni Broadband proves Socialism works in the right areas such as infrastructure.

Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state

Re: Corporate America fears Socialsim

Corporations are cutthroat, and at&t doesn't understand morals. It has nothing to do with 'socialism'.

AnonMe

@comcastbusiness.net

Put up or shut up!

What fry's my balls is that these private corps don't want to invest, but they won't "let" anyone else do it either. The AT&T days of the 1970's haven't changed much in some regards.

I am almost always against govt spending, but our society is becoming such that fast and reliable Internet access is as essential to some of us as roads and bridges are to others.

Maybe an alternate approach could be that under served areas could instead work to bring in some other private company to build and run a network. Things like this are routinely done when baseball stadiums, etc are built. Govt often bonds it over x years, with the revenue projections to cover all of the costs of the bonds. Still some risk, but may be better than 100% govt run.

jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

If I Understand The Anti-Muni-Broadband Crowd, Here...

So if a municipality is interested in supplying broadband to its residents, and it can do so such that the entire burden falls only on the users of the service, it should not be allowed to do so because government entities ought not be engaged in supplying services to their residents?

Jim

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chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA

Every major ISP does that

AT&T is not alone in this.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4

How dare you!

Want to build your own with decent service levels at a fair price.
We're A T & T and we won't stand for that!
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: How dare you!

said by dvd536:

Want to build your own with decent service levels at a fair price.
We're A T & T and we won't stand for that!

Not much different than
"We're the phone company. We don't care, we don't have to."

Scatcatpdx
Fur It Up

join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast

Good reasions to Kill it.

Community or better state own broadband is anti competitive. The municipality sets itself as an monopoly using their power to tax and create legislation I.e set prices and service where private firms must raise voluntary private capital.
For example If I wanted to set up Hank Rearden cable company to compete with Local government Broadband. Already I am running in to barriers as I must raise my own capital where the Municipality can use their taxing authority (borrowing is just pushing the bill by borrowing on predicted future tax revenue) to raise capital. Worst Municipality can legislate the cost I can charge, where I can serve, the level of service, zoning and easement. While at the same time the government could subsidize and offer the service below my cost by costing shifting some of the price toborrowing or new taxes, as in the case of proposing a tax on cell phone usage.

•••

TheTruth

@comcast.net

See the light?

T wants to sell off parts of its aging copper telegraph network but won't be able to find a buyer if the area is served by a munifiber network.
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: See the light?

After the Verizon Reverse Morris Trust fiascoes and steady decline of the landline market it will be tough for AT&T to find anyone interested in making a profit who is willing to buy their under performing landlines. Their best bet for selling them now may be finding cooperatives, non-profits, or municipal governments that do want to promote broadband.

Uncle Paul

join:2003-02-04
USA
kudos:1

The definition of Broadband:

quote:
SECTION 3. Section 58-9-10(17) of the 1976 Code, as added by Act 6 of 2003, is amended to read:

"(17) The term 'broadband service' means a service that is used to deliver video or to provide access to the Internet or content and services similar to that accessible through the Internet, and that consists of the offering of:

(a) a capability to transmit information at a rate that is generally not less than one hundred ninety kilobits per second in at least one direction; or

(b) a service that uses one or more of the following to provide this access:

(i) computer processing;

(ii) information storage; and

(iii) protocol conversion."
So I guess a company doesn't actually have to deliver access to the Internet to be considered a broadband service in an area. In reality, I suppose edge cell service within a fully walled garden would count. Nice.
DaveO

join:2001-09-05
Easley, SC

No Choice

I don't think we have a choice but to support some kind of community broadband project if we're going to be competitive with other nations. We're already falling way behind. Even Romania has far faster broadband than we do.

We've been sitting around waiting for the "free market to work" for a few decades now. It worked in the dial-up Internet days, but not now. Back then dial-up ISPs had to directly compete with others for customers. Now you're lucky if you even have two choices between your cable ISP monopoly and DSL. Most areas only have cable. Some have nothing.

It seems like we need to build fiber optic out to all neighborhoods and let multiple ISPs compete to connect customers for the "last mile."

••••••••
bloodx

join:2002-08-25
North Myrtle Beach, SC

99 percent of South Carolina households have access

99 percent of South Carolina households have access to broadband connections.
treyatl2006

join:2012-01-26
Atlanta, GA

Re: 99 percent of South Carolina households have access

Of course they include GPRS, EDGE, 1XRTT, and satellite broadband in that 99% figure. None of those can be considered reasonable reliable alternatives for broadband connections in todays age. Either its too slow, unreliable, or have low monthly caps.
bloodx

join:2002-08-25
North Myrtle Beach, SC

Re: 99 percent of South Carolina households have access

»www.southcarolinaradionetwork.co···n-usage/

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
Reviews:
·TracFone Wireless
·CenturyLink

What is not understood

Americans do not remember. Back in the 90s there was a push to bring competition to rural America. In theory it would force giants like AT&T to play nice and "share". AT&T refused and instead made a deal in the play pens. If they made nice to AT&T the telco would do X, Y, and Z. OK made that deal and AT&T did nothing.

The ones who didn't get screwed were the children in the State Playpen. Cox Cable refused; it retaliated by selling off small and mid markets to predator upstarts like Suddenlink. Rural cable that was once very decent was ruined. Programming we liked was replaced with 10 church channels, and most every crappy free channel/piggy back infomercial feed available. It did not take me long to switch to satellite.
--
Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: What is not understood

said by linicx:

If they made nice to AT&T the telco would do X, Y, and Z.

Sounds like the deals Bell Atlantic (now Verizon) made with states implying everyone would get symmetrical 45 Mbps fiber to the home.

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State

Re: What is not understood

Exactly