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Comments on news posted 2012-07-05 09:07:49: A growing number of ISPs are eliminating the option to own your own mondem -- Charter Communications being the most recent. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Be Realistic

quote:
The reason is usually twofold: it provides the ISP with more consistency making troubleshooting easier, but it also allows them to charge an additional modem rental fee.
Regarding your first point, I disagree. How big of an issue is it really with the thousands of different makes of standardized DSL or Cable modems out there already?

This is a rate hike, nothing more.
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Uh Ohhh.....

Dane must have been late on this month's payment.



Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

1 recommendation

When you don't have a choice, it isn't a fee

If you can't provide your own modem, it is now part of the price of the service. Sorry, there isn't any other way to see it. If that is the case, why not advertise $.99 Internet. Then once they sign up hit them with a $100 a month modem rental fee. Nothing more than more of the same.

I'd love to see a law where you must advertise the cost of service, additional fees, and normal taxes to get around these fees being tacked on in order for them to advertise a much lower rate. Nothing like thinking you're getting $50 Internet only to find on on your first bill that it really cost $75 after tax, title, and destination fees.
--
Want the shirt? - »www.despair.com/thedestructor.html
Not afiliated or making any profit from sales



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to pnh102

Re: Be Realistic

It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment. The problem is that the customer pretty much never will accept the idea that their problem is with their equipment. Even worse is that the more advanced the equipment ( Think Tomato, PFSense, etc.) the more difficult it is to get them to understand the problem is with their $200 setup and not the $100k+ router on our side.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL

1 recommendation

With Comcast at least.....

you have the option (and it's a smart one) to buy/bring your own modem and skip that $7mo rental fee. Not sure about U-Verse.

Dane- If it's a 'service' issue, just lock down which modems users can bring to the network. If it's a $ thing, be honest and just raise the advertised price of service.
--
Jeff Howe
Jeff's Blog - »www.ostjournal.net



RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1
reply to pnh102

Re: Be Realistic

I am glad Comcast isn't doing this, in fact they seem pretty willing to help customers with their own equipment.



newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·Comcast

2 recommendations

reply to battleop

said by battleop:

It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment.

If it's such a pain in the ass to support customer equipment, then supply the required modem free of charge instead of turning it into a revenue stream, "just because you can".


treichhart

join:2006-12-12
reply to RR Conductor

I hope you know Xfinity is Comcast so comcast is doing this fee so you probably want to edit your comment on that one.


BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to pnh102

I see it a bit different , it seems like most companies are using it not as a rate hike but a way to pay for upgrades to the network, without it coming out of the "profit" coffer. Either way it's creative accounting at best. And this is what we get for allowing all our brains to go into accounting and money management instead of the sciences like we used to.

We did it to ourselves people.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"



nonamesleft

join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI

This better not spread....

like wildfire to others, comcast don't be stupid and do this! Hopefully a lawsuit rolls in and puts an end to this BS.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to newview

Re: Be Realistic

I guess you missed where I didn't comment on the rental fee.... My comment is strictly related to customers expecting you to support 20323423 different combinations of equipment.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
reply to battleop

said by battleop:

It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment. The problem is that the customer pretty much never will accept the idea that their problem is with their equipment. Even worse is that the more advanced the equipment ( Think Tomato, PFSense, etc.) the more difficult it is to get them to understand the problem is with their $200 setup and not the $100k+ router on our side.

Sorry I am not buying it. Besides, if the company owns the modem and people must pay to rent it, what do you think this is going to cause from a support perspective? Cue the "it's your modem, you get out here and fix it NOW" calls going up by an order of magnitude.

This is no different than the bad old days of Ma Bell requiring you to rent your phones from them.

Why not just call it what it is, a rate hike, and be done with it?
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.

Os

join:2011-01-26
US
reply to nonamesleft

Re: This better not spread....

Charge for modem rental? They already do.

Let's face it, this affects maybe 1% of customers. Most internet subscribers can't honestly tell the difference between a modem and a box of cereal.



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to battleop

Re: Uh Ohhh.....

said by battleop:

Dane must have been late on this month's payment.

Yes, Dane has been the darling of Karl's editorials. I thought the editorial would have been more critical of this anti-competitive step instead of just giving out the info of the change.
--
»www.mittromney.com/s/repeal-and-···bamacare
»www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care


Zaber
When all are gone, there shall be none

join:2000-06-08
Cleveland, OH

Backwards

Isn't great how we are going backwards and calling it progress? At one time every telephone connected into the phone company must be owned by the phone company, they even stated the same reasons for requiring this. If a customer chooses to use his own CPE why exactly should he not be allowed? I am not saying that the ISP should be required to support the customer's equipment, just that the customer should have a choice. Of course then both parties need to be competent with the equipment on their own side.
--
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he will feed himself for a lifetime



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

I have no problem renting the modem

Over the years, I have had the following ISP's in this order
@Home
Comcast
Time Warner Cable
Comcast

In all the cases, I rented my cable modem from them. I know the price has not always been the same, and I know that over the course of time, I probably spent enough money to own my own.

However, if you look at the ISP's that I listed, they changed a few times as I moved. Sure, the @home to Comcast was just a change in name, but when I moved from Illinois to Wisconsin, I had to switch from Comcast to Time Warner. Then, I moved back to Illinois and switched from Time Warner back to Comcast.

Instead of taking the chance that my purchased modem would work, it was just easier for me to rent.

Not to mention that if anything goes wrong with it, its less work to swap it out for another, as its not mine.

A really good example of this is what I went through a few months back. Prior to May of 2012, I had only HSI and Cable TV from Comcast, and was renting a Scientific Atlanta modem, Model # DPC2100R2. Since I was renting, I went down to the local Comcast Office, gave them my old modem, and they gave me a Thomson Internet Voice Modem, Model # DHG536.
A few weeks go by, and I find out that the batteries in it are bad. So, I go back down to the local office with the modem, explain the problem, and in no time, I'm on my way back home with a new modem. This time its an Arris, Model: TM402P.

If I instead had purchased my own modem prior to me adding Comcast Digital Voice, I would have had to try to find a place that sells an eMTA modem that Comcast would support when I made the switch. Not to mention what the heck do I do with my old old modem? Then, when I had the problem with the batteries, I would have had to try to either contact the place I purchased it, or the manufacturer directly to solve the problem, or return it and purchase a new one. Depending on where it was purchased, that could be a hassle (may have to ship it back which could cost money, drive back to the store, etc). Worst case is I would have had to purchase a 3rd modem, which would mean I then had 2 modems that I would have no idea what to do with.

I don't know about you, but that seems like a lot of extra work. In my case, it was so much easier to drive less then 2 miles to my local office, tell them the issue, and swap it out in no time flat.

Finally, if for whatever reason the modem I have is no longer supported on their network, they will swap it out for one that is. I don't have to try to keep up on standards, what works best, what does not work, and so on. Not to mention firmware updates to the device. Its on them to keep track of all that. I don't have to try to figure out if the new firmware is supported or not, and if I don't do that research, and it turns out that the firmware is not supported, then I have a dead cable modem, and may have to go through a lot of steps to get things working (roll back firmware, or worse yet, BUY YET ANOTHER modem). None of these are things I have to worry about, which makes my life a whole lot easier.

Again, people may have a different view here, but I have no problem paying $7 a month for my modem, knowing that if anything goes wrong, needs to be fixed, upgraded or replaced, its on the ISP to do so.

---Brian


Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

Over the years these rental fees really add up!

July 2002 Adelphia sent a notice with the bill that they would start charging $5.00 plus tax for the Motorola SB4100 they supplied. I replaced it with an open box SB4200 I purchased from Best Buy for $30.00 after two rebates. I later purchased a Linksys BEFCMU10-v4 modem for $40.00 when Office Depot was phasing out the Linksys products. The Linksys supported DOCSIS 2.0 and had a superior user interface. My total cost for modems was $70.00. I have owned my own modem for Ten Years or 120 Months. Based on an average monthly cost of $6.00 plus tax and fees per month the total cost over the ten years would be approximately $800.00. If I subtract the $70.00 cost for the two modems I purchased I have saved about $730.00 over the ten years. Not a trifling sum.

When I moved to Central Florida I signed up with Comcast through Circuit City and received a FREE Motorola SB5102 modem after two rebates. In the case of Circuit City deal, the customer had to maintain service for 120 days in order to receive the rebates. I also received the first six months broadband service at $19.95 per month and a $100.00 Circuit City gift card.

If the ISP's were not so greedy they would provide the modem at no charge as long as the customer maintained their broadband service.

These modem rental fees are another way to conceal a price increase without stating the true cost of service in their advertising.


bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY
reply to Os

Re: This better not spread....

Well they are both crunchy. I am pretty sure most people don't pour milk on their modems. Everyone knows you need coffee to properly fry a modem



spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Airline model pricing

Looks like the ISP's are starting to use the Airline pricing model>nickel and dime your customers to death!
--

Romney equals Epic Fail!



spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·SureWest Internet
reply to FFH

Re: Uh Ohhh.....

said by FFH:

said by battleop:

Yes, Dane has been the darling of Karl's editorials. I thought the editorial would have been more critical of this anti-competitive step instead of just giving out the info of the change.

Are you kidding? Karl slammed him:

Sonic CEO Dane Jasper justifies the shift in the blog's comment section bynoting that it makes support easier -- and that, well, everybody else is doing it:


--

Romney equals Epic Fail!


newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·Comcast
reply to battleop

Re: Be Realistic

said by battleop:

I guess you missed where I didn't comment on the rental fee.... My comment is strictly related to customers expecting you to support 20323423 different combinations of equipment.

Then allow customers to BUY modems from the cable company ... and do NOT charge ridiculous 1000% markups. A required modem from the company is nothing but a damn additional FEE, no matter how you slice it.


buddahbless

join:2005-03-21
Premium
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
reply to treichhart

Actually with Comcast you do have a choice At lest in Florida, you can still Buy your own modem ( must be approved by them ) and skip the fee for Xfinity internet, however for Comcast digital voice service you are FORCED to rent there VOIP equipment and pay the $7 monthly fee, so they get you one way or the other .



topgun

join:2011-01-31
Reviews:
·PHONE POWER
reply to newview

said by newview:

said by battleop:

It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment.

If it's such a pain in the ass to support customer equipment, then supply the required modem free of charge instead of turning it into a revenue stream, "just because you can".

OMG! You FN Brilliant bro That is what I did at the local Charter office. I got the newest surfboard 2.0. If anything goes wrong with it in a year they swap it out. Just a money grab...
--
I got the need for speed »bit.ly/topgunparody


buddahbless

join:2005-03-21
Premium
reply to Kilroy

Re: When you don't have a choice, it isn't a fee

My sentiments exactly... It would be nice if they had it in plan/law similar to purchasing an airline ticket now a days where all fees and charges are UP front and in detail before you actually hit the purchase button.


HiDesert

join:2008-08-17
reply to spewak

Re: Airline model pricing

said by spewak:

Looks like the ISP's are starting to use the Airline pricing model>nickel and dime your customers to death!

This is a money grab. I purchased my modem from Centurylink to avoid the rental fee. Why can't Sonic offer that option? At $6.50 a month you would have paid for it in less then two years. Depending on the modem, maybe just over a year. After that, it's all profit for Sonic.


Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to battleop

Re: Be Realistic

said by battleop:

It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment. The problem is that the customer pretty much never will accept the idea that their problem is with their equipment. Even worse is that the more advanced the equipment ( Think Tomato, PFSense, etc.) the more difficult it is to get them to understand the problem is with their $200 setup and not the $100k+ router on our side.

I've bought modems and I've been forced to rent one (back when I had voice service from Comcast). I've found that when renting modems, if you are having problems, the support people are much more likely to simply swap out the modem, even when the problem isn't caused by the modem.

For example, when I bought Comcast's voice service, they rented me a Motorola EMTA. Within about 2 weeks, the modem kept rebooting because of T3/T4 errors. They came and swapped the modem and left. The problems continued so they swapped it again (as well as replaced all the splitters) and left. The problems continued and they swapped it again (this time with an Arris EMTA). Again the problems continued. At this point I contacted Comcast corporate which apparently came down on my local unit so that the lead tech called me. While talking to him my modem rebooted again. He noticed all the modems in about a 5 block radius around me also rebooted. It turned out the problem was an upstream signal issue. No amount of modem swapping would have fixed that.

So while it can make support easier if the problem actually is the modem, in most cases it is not.
--
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.


Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
reply to treichhart

And Comcast's fee is actually higher ($7).


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to battleop

If it's such a pain in the ass, won't elimination of support costs pay for new modems?



Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to kaila

Re: With Comcast at least.....

Comcast only gives you a choice if you don't have their voice service, otherwise they force you to rent a modem (EMTA).

I read recently that Comcast would allow you to provide your own EMTA, but when a friend of mine tried to sign up for voice online, it said a rental was required and automatically added the $7 charge to his "cart". He decided to not go with Comcast voice because of that.
--
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.


adam1991

join:2012-06-16
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
reply to battleop

Re: Be Realistic

said by battleop:

It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment. The problem is that the customer pretty much never will accept the idea that their problem is with their equipment. Even worse is that the more advanced the equipment ( Think Tomato, PFSense, etc.) the more difficult it is to get them to understand the problem is with their $200 setup and not the $100k+ router on our side.

on the other hand, as WOW Dan found out in my circumstance, the problem *was* on their end. After my putting up with it for some weeks, he discovered some problems on their end.

That being said, he found that out only after I went and got a WOW cable modem that he could get more information from. I'm going to hold onto it for a month while I confirm that my own unit indeed is working properly with the infrastructure problem now fixed, and then I'll take it back. Easy peasy.

In the middle of all this comes the realization in the WOW community that their cable modems are stuck at no higher than 1.79Mbps upload speeds--regardless of the package the customer is paying for. We've made a bunch of noise and WOW Dan has confirmed this for a certain brand/model of the WOW supplied modems. Contrast this with my Surfboard 6120, which does not have this limitation.

So, forcing the customer to put up with the cableco supplied stuff--acquired as cheaply as possible--also forces the customer to put up with whatever limitations the cableco chooses to live with in this regard. I'm paying for 15/2 service, and in WOW's world "1.79 is within our tolerance level". I guess I'd have to pony up to pay for 15/5 and report that 1.79 upload speed before WOW would bother to do anything.

Hmmmm, I may just do that.....

But what WOW would do instead of fixing things is simply give me the other cable modem they have some of, the DOCSIS 3.0 model that doesn't exhibit this behavior. This would leave the 15/2 customers not getting what they're paying for.

In the end, the customer loses no matter what. Cableco wants his cable modem for his own purposes, then refuses to fix deficiencies in his cable modem and won't let me get my own. Cableco wins every time, customer loses every time.