amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
 ·KCH Cable
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Incomplete Even if there was a "day in court," it's probably too late to pull the plug.
First, there was this:
»news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9982898-7.html
Obama signed a 'compromise' bill after saying he wouldn't support immunity for telco involvement. Oops.
Second,
There's this, concerning the datacenter being built in Utah:
»www.washingtontimes.com/news/201···pying-c/ |
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Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
·CenturyLink
·Comcast
·Embarq Now Centu..
| These weasels are preparing their minority report!  When the news reporters state that the police took action against a perpetrator, was through good police work. In some cases the perpetrator was an innocent that had their broadband connection hacked. I always wonder if many of the SWAT Team break in's shown on TV, on innocent citizens, are because the spies are sloppy and do not double check to be certain that they are breaking into the right house. Remember the NSA will claim that the spying on citizens is to protect the children and to prevent victimless crimes. When will the government require cameras be installed in bedrooms to make certain that spouses do sex according to local laws. |
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 coldmoonPremium
join:2002-02-04
Broadway, NC
·Windstream
| said by Mr Matt: When the news reporters state that the police took action against a perpetrator, was through good police work. In some cases the perpetrator was an innocent that had their broadband connection hacked. I always wonder if many of the SWAT Team break in's shown on TV, on innocent citizens, are because the spies are sloppy and do not double check to be certain that they are breaking into the right house. Remember the NSA will claim that the spying on citizens is to protect the children and to prevent victimless crimes. When will the government require cameras be installed in bedrooms to make certain that spouses do sex according to local laws.
SHHHHHHH! Don't give them any new ideas...
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Returnil - 21st Century body armor for your PC |
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Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| OK got to regulate here snippets from the report above
warrantless
in violation of the law
widespread mass illegal surveillance
massive spying program
law-breaking domestic surveillance
wow, all that in 3 paragraphs.
Interestingly, none of this is factual. It's all someone's opinion, and the courts and Congress who, gee, actually get to DECIDE whether something's legal or illegal, disagree. Guess who wins that argument?
intercepting nearly all US communications
mass surveillance of ordinary people
collect massive amounts of data and communications of innocent Americans
wow again. How does anyone actually know what is happening? The details are of course classified. This is simply extrapolation to an unjustified conclusion.
And, of course, no mention of WHY one would want to take measures for national security. Ummm... maybe... there's a lot of people, and nations, who want to kill as many of those "innocent Americans" as possible, and cripple the USA, by any means necessary? Oh, yeah, forgot about that one.
Last point.. if you're going to throw random observations into the mix, and extrapolate from them to your desired conclusions, and pre-emptively declare them true... well how about this one? President Obama, after he was sworn in, supported pretty much every domestic national security measure started by the Bush Administration. Hmmmm... why did that happen? Maybe he saw what was actually going on and realized it was fine, useful, and critical to national security. Eric Holder has not peeped about any of this, you notice. |
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| reply to Mr Matt
Re: These weasels are preparing their minority report! Get Buttle!
His name is Tuttle?
Whatever. Close Enough. 
Dave |
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| reply to Mr Matt
Oh. My.
All righty then.
Back to the real world.... unfortunately I can't get that 30 seconds back. |
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| Government Rights Obama has already declared that he has the right to kill anyone, so he seems entitled to monitor the internet, have first dibs at your daughter's virginity, etc. etc. |
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| reply to Mr Matt
Re: These weasels are preparing their minority report! said by Mr Matt:When will the government require cameras be installed in bedrooms to make certain that spouses do sex according to local laws.
When? About six years ago.
»www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200···as_x.htm |
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| reply to MyDogHsFleas
Re: OK got to regulate here The courts decide when a lawsuit is brought by citizen's against the government. Congress decides after citizens vote them into office asking for them to decide. "It's OK because the government says it's OK...though it's a secret so we can assume it's OK even if the government doesn't say it's OK" is not any kind of argument. Not even if Obama says so. Or his lackey, Mr. In-Contempt-of-Congress... |
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| Federal Government is the real threat. Americans dont realize it yet but we are no longer a free people and the ruling political class does not acknowledge the constitution unless it benefits them. The War on Terror is now the War on Americans. Revolution or complete tyranny is coming. |
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| Free Beer Foundation We need an organization that can translate EFF "announcements" into the decaf version. There's probably some useful information buried under all the hype. |
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| reply to amungus
Re: Incomplete The rhetoric is just over the top hyperbolic on this one. Break out the tin foil hats kids! The gubmint is spying on you!
I'm much more concerned about the completely unregulated, with no oversight, collection of our data by private companies. |
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 Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:2
·Bright House
| said by nothing00:The rhetoric is just over the top hyperbolic on this one. Break out the tin foil hats kids! The gubmint is spying on you! The reasons why governments harvest data about their citizens are well documented.
Can you cite reasons why our gov agencies wouldn't collect data that they want?
said by nothing00:I'm much more concerned about the completely unregulated, with no oversight, collection of our data by private companies. Which suits some folks in Congress just fine.
And big corporate data likes people hysterical over gov intrusion.
Then there's the super-super-secret third option for folks who'd prefer to not get played by either side of the gov/corp duopoly.
They place the liberty of citizens above either gov or corps.
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Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery. |
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| reply to MyDogHsFleas
Re: OK got to regulate here What the hell are you talking about? Former NSA analysts who had *access* to these programs are coming forward and saying it is absolutely true.
Every bit of data that flows across American pipes is being sucked in by the NSA and stored.
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Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999 |
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| A Failure to Amend Our Constitution is woefully inadaquate at protecting American's privacy in the 21st Century. Our inability to update the document has us falling far behind other nations in guaranteeing rights of its citizens. In fact, most other nations that are updating their constitutions no longer look to ours as a model, instead more closely copying those of Canada and the EU declaration of rights. Thomas Jefferson, in a 1789 letter to James Madison, wrote that every constitution “naturally expires at the end of 19 years” because “the earth belongs always to the living generation.” Our Constitution has recently been sarcastically compared to Windows 3.1, and their doesn't seem to be any impetus to make it applicable to todays world. We have judicial and executive acts that leave us less and less protected from big government and big business, both of whom are more than happy to plow through loopholes and on the fringes. I am going to go out on a limb here and predict that even if the NSA is doing what is said is being done, it is upheld. |
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| reply to MyDogHsFleas
Re: OK got to regulate here Well the evidence is mounting that there is large scale domestic data harvesting.
According to the nsa's own website they have 2 key missions:
"NSA's SIGINT mission is specifically limited to gathering information about international terrorists and foreign powers, organizations, or persons. "
"Information Assurance involves preventing unauthorized access to sensitive or classified national security information and systems. The purpose of the Information Assurance mission is to keep others from stealing or tampering with our national security systems and information."
It seems increasingly clear that there is enormous mission creep here and the crossing of a very dangerous border that was put into place to protect american citizens from indiscriminate surveillance. The government should not have secret rooms where all our communications are funneled through for their monitoring. This should be non-negotiable.
It isn't really clear whether this is technically legal, whether it has simply never been properly tested in the courts, nor the extent to which the congress is even aware of what is actually going on. It's pretty clear to me that it is well outside the boundary of the spirit and intent of the law. These organizations are a secret government within a government and it isn't a sure bet that our elected officials are even in the know about what they are doing. They may also not want to be in the know.
Is there ever going to be a point at which "for our own protection" isn't a justification for everything? |
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 airwavzAlways the green wire
join:2011-09-11
Mount Juliet, TN
kudos:1 | reply to MyDogHsFleas
said by MyDogHsFleas:"the courts and Congress who, gee, actually get to DECIDE whether something's legal or illegal, disagree." No, you seem to have forgotten that line in the constitution about We the people. The courts and congress don't get to decide anything - they are to represent the views and choices of the people who elected / allowed them to be appointed to their position. That is all. Period. According to the very doctrine this country was founded upon, WE ARE the government - not some second-class species to be constantly observed and monitored like fish in a tank!
said by MyDogHsFleas: "Ummm... maybe... there's a lot of people, and nations, who want to kill as many of those "innocent Americans" as possible, and cripple the USA, by any means necessary? Oh, yeah, forgot about that one."
No, I did not forget about 'that one'. There have always been people, countries, and nations who want to eliminate and/or overtake the US, as well as any other nation that disagrees with their world view. When we all lived in caves and carried big sticks there were saber-tooth tigers and scary dinosaurs trying to eat us as well, but we didn't have 'the government' to save our ass from 'the bogeyman' back then. Our distant ancestors got on with Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - or at least a decent meal - without worrying about cyber-bullying/political correctness/the red menace/evil terrorists, et al.
Any TRUE conservative would agree with one of our country's great founding fathers:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Ben Franklin
I support our government following the constitution to the very letter - beyond that give me back my freedoms, and I'll take my chances with the "menaces" of life!
How does anyone know what is actually happening? Because at least 5 (that we know of) REAL Americans have had the guts to come forward and DETAIL the blatant illegal abuses being perpetrated by the NSA and other agencies in total disregard of our constitution!! |
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| reply to franknalco
Re: A Failure to Amend Nonsense. There's very little wrong with our Constitution. The big problem is the fact that we've become complacent as voters and have abdicated our country to political parties that are largely controlled by corporate interests. Well, there's that and the fact that we've voted for a bunch of complete morons also.
The only major Amendment that's currently needed is one which declares once and for all that corporations are not people and money is not speech. This wouldn't even be necessary if we have voted in responsible people who had then made sound judicial appointments. Instead, the corporate monkeys have stacked the courts with justices that roll their way when these cases come up. In this case, it's been happening since the days of Santa Clara County vs. Southern Pacific Railroad. The founders were very wary of corporate influence and would never have considered corporations to have been people. Sadly, we've allowed our government to pervert the Constitution so that corporations now have personhood. If it weren't for this perverted interpretation of our Constitution, this Amendment wouldn't even be neccessary. Alas, it is. It's sad how little we as a people care about our government. |
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 pianotechPianotechPremium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
 ·Vonage
·Comcast
| reply to airwavz
Re: OK got to regulate here said by airwavz:"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Ben Franklin
I support our government following the constitution to the very letter - beyond that give me back my freedoms, and I'll take my chances with the "menaces" of life!
How does anyone know what is actually happening? Because at least 5 (that we know of) REAL Americans have had the guts to come forward and DETAIL the blatant illegal abuses being perpetrated by the NSA and other agencies in total disregard of our constitution!!
And that is the best comment I've read on this thread so far. You nailed it! Every day you hear of a new agency, new executive order, etc., that runs afoul of the Constitution. The sad thing is that few people actually care.
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General class working toward Extra. Love the digital modes! |
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| reply to coldmoon
Re: These weasels are preparing their minority report! let's see... Cable boxes with cameras, TV's with cameras/microphones for Skype, every laptop with a camera/microphone, every cell phone with a camera/microphone.... All remote/software accessible - who says big brother can't get what they want. |
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