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Comments on news posted 2012-07-19 19:29:37: Last month Verizon raised the bar for residential broadband (and high prices) when they announced their new Quantum FiOS tiers, which included a new top shelf 300 Mbps downstream, 65 Mbps upstream tier for $205 a month. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next
Os

join:2011-01-26
US

Sorry Comcast

Unless Comcast is planning on unveiling this without a cap or overage fees, Verizon still wins.
etaadmin

join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1

Re: Sorry Comcast

said by Os:

Unless Comcast is planning on unveiling this without a cap or overage fees, Verizon still wins.

I have a hunch it will be unlimited... just like TWC's top Docsis3.0 plans.

If Verizon charges $200+ for their 300 Mbps plan maybe Comcast will charge the same amount and at $200 per subscriber they and their subscribers will be very happy.
Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1

Re: Sorry Comcast

None of their existing tiers are unlimited unless you go business class. Not sure why the 305 tier would be different.
etaadmin

join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1

Re: Sorry Comcast

said by Oedipus:

None of their existing tiers are unlimited unless you go business class. Not sure why the 305 tier would be different.

Because caps are basically a money grab and when you charge for something at a high price you are already getting what you wanted besides 300 Mbps with caps doesn't make any sense.

Like I said it is only a 'hunch'... we'll see.

Suntop
Premium
join:2000-03-23
Fairfield, MT
Reviews:
·3Rivers Communic..
Caps are there to "stop pirates" and to make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Comcast is not called COMMIECAST for no reason. Let's see how long will it take a NON BUSINESS class to hit 250gb with a 305MBPs hmm lets see 2 days? It is not and will not ever be unlimited. Due to the ABUSE OF THE WORD UNLIMITED (ambiguous language) it is UNLIMITED ACCESS not UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH. You see F***en laws need to be changed to make the companies state the truth. Yes we offer UNLIMITED ACCESS to the internet, however when you hit the 250GB cap we impose forcefully onto you consumers we taketh the internet away! The reason I was given "It is to make sure everyone has access." to "This is to deter piracy." I tell them no you are a liar it is to protect profits.

It is more along the line "Bend over and take it .. ... ...." and "Pay us $200 for consumer you will be restricted, pay us $350.00 and you will have unlimited bandwidth." "While making our CEO and BOARD richer!"

To hell with all national cable providers, until you all quit raping your customers, I will stick to DSL, sure it is slow but I can download 1 terrabyte without any worry of them sending the bandwidth Gestapo after me.

Screw off Comcast! TWC and all others who LIE about unlimited.
--
The following statement is true...




The preceding statement was false!!
--George Carlin

Ebolla

join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA

Re: Sorry Comcast

where in the last 5+ years have you seen a single comcast commercial use the word unlimited and internet in the same line.

Suntop
Premium
join:2000-03-23
Fairfield, MT
Reviews:
·3Rivers Communic..

Re: Sorry Comcast

I haven't seen a comcast commercial in 5+ years. Sides even if they stopped it, that does not change the fact they are LIARS when it came to the internet. Just because they stop saying it don't make it any different, now the "UP TO" is the other bs language. Um, if you say "We offer speeds up to 100 mbps" and all you get is 10-30mbps what do you think? Oversell and under-provide seems to be the common way today.
--
The following statement is true...




The preceding statement was false!!
--George Carlin
Getreal4

join:2012-03-30

Re: Sorry Comcast

Do some homework before posting. Your feelings mean nothing compared to facts. Verizon and Comcast both have faster than advertised speeds on average.

»transition.fcc.gov/cgb/measuring···Full.pdf

Suntop
Premium
join:2000-03-23
Fairfield, MT
Reviews:
·3Rivers Communic..

Re: Sorry Comcast

This is DEPENDENT on location, amount of people on the node, and bandwidth management. It is a huge variable to have as advertised speeds. I used Comcast for a short time, I canceled service and went to CLICK! in Tacoma. They had more consistent speed than Comcast did back in the late '90s early 2000. It is because when they took over from AT&T there was so many splices in the line that it caused ... issues.
--
The following statement is true...




The preceding statement was false!!
--George Carlin

mmay149q
Premium
join:2009-03-05
Dallas, TX
kudos:48
said by Os:

Unless Comcast is planning on unveiling this without a cap or overage fees, Verizon still wins.

True that, to be honest I just wish Verizon would completely own Comcast when they release this tier, by releasing their 300Mbps tier with 300Mbps on the upload as well, it would show that copper really can't compare to fiber...

Matt
--
I am no longer an AT&T Employee. Check out my kudos! »/profile/1626573
Have U-verse questions? Please email uversecare@att.com and they will assist you!!

oop

@comcast.net

Re: Sorry Comcast

fios still uses copper in house and most wire comcast installed

Chicago

@comcast.net
Do not worry about Comcast and Verizon battle. Google wins. Google is about to offer 1 Gbps internet speed, yes you read right 1gbps or 1,000 mbps. And they charge 70$. Kansas City is the first city that will benefit the Google new network. Check at fiber.google.com.

syslock
Premium
join:2007-02-03
La La Land
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..

Things that make you go Hummmmm.

Really? What network upgrades are they doing?
They jam pack the nodes full of subs.

How are paying customers of that service going to get those speeds
if they are on a node that's totally bloated with subs?

Are they slowing down the other subs to allow the traffic
from the high paying subs to go thru first?

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

quote:
How are paying customers of that service going to get those speeds
if they are on a node that's totally bloated with subs?
QoS, my friend.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

said by ArrayList:

QoS, my friend.

So either the 305 sub is going to get a big "up yours" and not get to actually use the 305mbit service they pay for, or all the other subs are going to get an "up yours" when the 305 mbit sub gets all that (s)he is paying for.

QOS doesn't magically make more bandwidth appear.

syslock
Premium
join:2007-02-03
La La Land

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

And we have a winner! lol
Exactly what I was thinking.
etaadmin

join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by cdru:

said by ArrayList:

QoS, my friend.

So either the 305 sub is going to get a big "up yours" and not get to actually use the 305mbit service they pay for, or all the other subs are going to get an "up yours" when the 305 mbit sub gets all that (s)he is paying for.

QOS doesn't magically make more bandwidth appear.

What you both missed is that silicon today is able to bond 16, 32 downstream channels and more than 8 upstream channels. With docsis3.x load balancing it won't be any problems for anyone in the same node.

I would be surprised if Comcast use 'regular' 8 downstream/4 upstream docsis3.0 modems for this plan.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

said by etaadmin:

What you both missed is that silicon today is able to bond 16, 32 downstream channels and more than 8 upstream channels. With docsis3.x load balancing it won't be any problems for anyone in the same node.

If the same node is already congested, as specified in the original comment ("....a node that's totally bloated with subs") then why wasn't additional channels not already available to alleviate that congestion?

A minimum of 8 channels would have to be bonded to get to the 305 mbit mark. Even if that was doubled to 16 channels, 1 user taking half the capacity of 16 channels still is likely to have an impact on other users somewhat greater than zero.

whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by etaadmin:

I would be surprised if Comcast use 'regular' 8 downstream/4 upstream docsis3.0 modems for this plan.

So they can support 2 to 4 users per node on this tier without overselling.

Currently it's something like 200 to 400 homes per node. I see trouble.
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT

1 recommendation

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

said by whfsdude:

So they can support 2 to 4 users per node on this tier without overselling.

Currently it's something like 200 to 400 homes per node. I see trouble.

No, you just missed the magic words "up to" which make everything OK.
Stu Pidaso

join:2006-10-12
Greenwood, IN
kudos:2
said by ArrayList:

quote:
How are paying customers of that service going to get those speeds
if they are on a node that's totally bloated with subs?
QoS, my friend.

I'm guessing channel bonding. It is DOCSIS 3.

Suntop
Premium
join:2000-03-23
Fairfield, MT
Yes but QoS only goes so far. Besides, with Commiecast they can circumvent that so you are stuck with the pirating fools and all the streamers and gamers eating up the bandwidth,

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

with an attitude like that, yeah they would treat you like an ass.

Suntop
Premium
join:2000-03-23
Fairfield, MT

2 edits

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

That is because they are asses. I hate them. Besides, isn't the go golden rule Treat others the way you want to be treated? Hence, I am an ass towards them because they was asses to me oh so long ago.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

learn to grow up son.

Suntop
Premium
join:2000-03-23
Fairfield, MT

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

Who are you to tell me what to do? I can be whoever I am you like anyone else here cannot change me any more than any of you can stop Earths rotation.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

you are pissed about things that you have no control over. checkmate.

Suntop
Premium
join:2000-03-23
Fairfield, MT
Reviews:
·3Rivers Communic..

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

OMG seriously? You are playing this out like chess? I am not pissed in any way, just annoyed with them. They caused me a lot of issues back in the day I had them. In Tacoma they had cruddy service. I switched to CLICK! because of that. They not only had a superb network with is the "model" for municipalities starting their OWN Cable TV service with 2-way cable for Internet. I see the speeds have improved and the cost remained. Do yourself a favor research CLICK! and Tacoma Power. They are the FIRST ones to offer cable internet that ALLOWS YOU to choose an ISP from a set of 3 they have, unlike @home/AT&T/Comcast which you have to "use them". CLICK! is the first one to have a FIBER NETWORK even before FIOS. You see if more CITIES would do this, there would be a true competition for service.

Unfortunately, you just ended the game before even starting. I am sorry that you think you won. Did you even look at the cable company I was talking about?
--
The following statement is true...




The preceding statement was false!!
--George Carlin

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
Reviews:
·RCN CABLE
·Comcast

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

Like I said, you are upset about the service, which is something you have no control over. You did all you could do, you switched. Don't be upset about it. Just move on. It doesn't do any good to tell people how bad the service years ago was when the service today is not the same thing.

Suntop
Premium
join:2000-03-23
Fairfield, MT
Reviews:
·3Rivers Communic..

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

Well that is fine and all, although it may have improved they oversell and this is another problem. They need to state "Speeds up to 50mbps except during peak times when your speed may be considerably lower." TRUTH IN ADVERTISING. Instead of using ambiguous statements in their commercials. They also need to state "There is a cap of xxxGB" Then maybe they wouldn't get so much flak from angry consumers.

If they do it is in such small text that I struggle to read it and I have 20/20 vision. There needs to be a law change where they are forced to put it large enough to be seen by the general populace. I find the reason is the CEO knows if they tell the truth they will not get customers. They make the fine print so small that no one can really read it in the time it is on the screen. THEY know this so they do this on purpose. For example, I noticed on the AT&T Wireless commercial they were caught with their pants down when showing off the use of the internet with simulated screens on iPhones, this caused an uproar when it was not that fast. So they were forced to put "Screen is simulated" first it was small but after a while it got to a size most everyone can read. This did make the consumer more confident in their choice knowing that it was a simulated screen.

Here is a question: Why can't they show real world experiences with things that these companies sell, be truthful, and not be deceptive with full explanations as what a person will really get with their service?

My answer is: "To do so will not get as many suckers as they would being truthful."

Sad, it is very sad that they have to LIE to get customers... And these companies wonder why many are leaving in droves. It is unlikely that this will ever change. Unless an act of Congress and FCC requires the truth be said and not in very small print where no one can read. Unlimited Internet (the access to the service is unlimited, not the speed or bandwidth) This went on for a while until they were forced to to state to the effect of being throttled after hitting the 2-3GB cap. I just do not understand why they have to be so deceptive, damn snake oil sellers.

I wonder if in other countries they are more honest with the service they offer and not be deceptive in their advertising.
--
The following statement is true...




The preceding statement was false!!
--George Carlin

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
Reviews:
·RCN CABLE
·Comcast

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

All of those things that you want them to say, they say. They say it in the AUP, TOS, and several other documents that you agree to.

"Speeds up to 50mbps except during peak times when your speed may be considerably lower."

the whole UP TO part includes peak time slowdowns. in fact, zero mbps is included in that UP TO bit.

As to why they don't provided a detailed description as to what to expect from the service. Well, they don't do that because that would be horrible marketing. Nobody does that.

PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
The real issue is that - outside of niche users with niche USES, who can actually use those sorts of speeds? And I don't care how many users are on a node - it's more likely that the NODE can deal with those speeds than the server on the host end could. The only companies that can remotely leverage that sort of speed as server hosts are Microsoft and Apple - and even they partner with bandwidth companies (in the case of both companies, Akamai figures prominently). The recent launch of the Office 365/2013 preview (all of a mere three days ago) is a solid real-world view of how crippled folks are today by what's out there today (especially bandwidth constraints or node congestion).

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

Re: Things that make you go Hummmmm.

I have a few gigabit servers in datacenters that can easily handle those speeds. Every user is different and there are no niche users.

09129800

join:2012-06-27
New York, NY

Comcast, more like Comcap

So, what's the bandwidth cap gonna be on this one, Comcrap?

Seems like the perfect plan to rack up thousands of dollars in overage fees.

Meanwhile, in Verizon FiOS land... transferring 10+ terabytes of data every month doesn't get you a peep because Verizon has NO CAPS.

Like having your wallet raped? Look no further than Comcap's new 305 Mbps speed tier, complete with 300 GB bandwidth cap which you will be able to exceed in less than 3 hours at that speed and $10 overage fees per 50 additional GB used - which will allow for potentially racking up $650 in overage fees within a single day! That's right, at 305 Mbps you can download over 3 terabytes of data in one day.

Isn't the current direction America is heading when it comes to broadband looking grand?

There is not a single person who is looking for this kind of speed who will go for Comcap's bandwidth capped trash over Verizon's offering.

io chico
Premium
join:2003-12-30
Chico, CA

1 recommendation

How about expanding?

Still can't get cable in many markets.

••••••••••••
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

So who gives a damn?

Really? they could unlock the full speed of their backbone and i still wouldn't give a damn since they have caps or overages.
Cobra11M

join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX

hmmm

they have that capacity?!?! I mean I know that cable can do up to what? 10gbps ? but your turnin off everythin else to get to that...

not to mention do they really think they can handle that many people downloading off that? but then again at those speeds you wouldn't have a problem with congestion really since the downloads would be finished quick.. It will be interesting to see how far they can push the upstream.. and maybe possibility of expanding this threw out their network?

but then again at 250gb or even 350 you would blow threw your cap like crazy and that might be the idea...
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: hmmm

*sigh* ... who's the "that many people"... ? This is a marketing tier, that's it! I'm sure this is going to be a mega price'd tier that most people are not going to even think about purchasing.

So unless Comcast prices this out at $50 a month, I doubt this is going to be a real market grabber.

jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1

What's the big deal...

Fios is not even being built-out anywhere, anymore.

If it doesn't pass you now, it likely never will.

All the Fios promos I get to see are a total waste of their advertising money.

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

Re: What's the big deal...

Not true, verizon is still doing plenty of building in already franchised towns/cities.
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

What's the min ACK bandwidth for 305Mbps?

Depending on the TCP receive window, one could chew through quite a bit of upstream bandwidth to sustain 305Mbps down. I'd guess north of 5Mbps would be consumed by ACKs unless a large receive window is used. Depending on quality, too large a window would kill performance if there are too many retransmits.

It would seem only fair if they provided at least 20Mbps up for 305Mbps down to keep the receive window reasonable and not require ultra low latency to the source server.

•••

somms

join:2003-07-28
Salt Lake City, UT

Verizon and Comcast e-penis size fail!

Meanwhile, while Verizion and Comcast are trying to one-up each other's E-penis size...Google rolls out their FTTH symmetrical 1Gbps/1Gbps service in KC making them both look like chumps!

•••••••

whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC

Splitting Nodes

I bet they're going to be increasing the node density quite a bit.

Keep in mind:

8 channels = 343.04 (304) Mbit/s.

So they're going to have to deploy at least 16 downstream channels and that'll even be a stretch.

beans

@verizon.net

caps

Even at 305 mbps, depending upon what you download, you won't get to the cap faster then somebody with 20 mpbs. You might get the file faster, but unless you are doing multiple streams of porn or bitthieft then you won't hit the cap if you are just doing single streams of anything.

•••

TriForce

join:2008-05-27
Chico, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast

Upstream and caps?

Great downstream isn't all that great if you're stuck with a measly 10 or 20 Mbps upstream. Also, something FiOS has a huge advantage is no caps. Cable has a lot of headroom in it to be competitive with fiber but it requires a lot of changes. Firstly, television streams need to have better compression, either fully switch to mpeg4 or h.265 (High Efficiency Video Coding).

This is only competitive if it includes two things: 1. No caps 2. The same or more upstream over FiOS

jarablue
Always be true to yourself

join:2001-06-11
Boxborough, MA

Re: Upsteam and caps?

300meg with caps. Whats the point?

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·Comcast

Bet it'll cost an arm & a leg

quote:
... sources tell Broadband Reports that Comcast is planning to offer a 305 Mbps downstream tier sometime before the end of the year in FiOS markets.
All well and good ... but who the hell can afford it?

Cable HSI bills higher than car payments?
Pretty damn ridiculous.
etaadmin

join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1

Whats more interesting

is that it took Comcast exactly one month to respond to Verizon's FiOS new 300 Mbps plan. June 18, 2012 Verizon announces quantum, today July 19, 2012 Comcast announces 305 Mbps.

That says a lot about the potential of docsis3.x... and at a fraction of the cost for deploying FiOS.

••••••••

Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:24
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..

1 recommendation

What are they going to do to solve the bandwidth issue?

From what I've seen, Comcast hasn't really started to bond more than 8 DOCSIS 3.0 channels in many areas (if they haven't started using 16+) and from what I understand, a single 305Mbps user could nearly consume everything a node has if they manage to peg their connection to the max. Whatever else would be left for scraps by normal node activity or for other network usage.

On the upstream side too, Upstream bonding is something I think they're still trying to figure out too. Doing 65Mbps on the up will most likely, once again push the node to it's limits.

Either way if Comcast pulls it off that would be interesting, but I'm betting they're going to need to clean the plants and split the nodes up a bit more, in addition to adding more downstream and upstream frequencies if they're going to pulling this sort of thing off and heavy users are going to use it.

As for FiOS, if only it would continue an aggressive build-out. With the exception of Municipal Fiber and Google's Fiber projects, FiOS is really the only thing that has legroom to handle higher speeds on GPON and XGPON Roll-outs.
Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Re: What are they going to do to solve the bandwidth issue?

It's possible that they are doing some >8 channel downstream bonding, but we don't notice it because there aren't any 16 channel modems available right now. If they intend on matching Verizon's 300/65, they're going to be nearly maxing out the "common" 8 down and 3 up configuration that a lot of people have. Something has to give if they're going to deploy that kind of speed on their existing system.

Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:24
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..

Re: What are they going to do to solve the bandwidth issue?

What also comes to mind is some unused channels that aren't being bonded too. My understanding of DOCSIS systems from the days of DOCSIS 1.0/1.1/2.0 is a cable company and have multiple downstream and upstream channels and they can be load balanced to prevent channel saturation. Perhaps that is what they're doing even if they aren't bonding more than 8 down, 3 up?

moomoo

@rr.com

big deal

caps watch dogs on the net what good is any of it like i need that to look at utube the internet is like tv now crap with caps ooooojoy
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

low end upstream increase

If comcast boosts the uploads with channel bonding.. then it should follow that Cablevision will have to do the same.. afterall, they are in a MORE competitive market then Comcast, comparatively.

BTW, soon could be anywhere from 2-3 weeks to before the end of the year... can someone be more specific?

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

I'm all for speed

But what servers can feed this fat pipe? I had Cox's 50Mb service during a promo period and rarely found anything that could really saturate my connection. Most of the time I'd top out around 30-40Mb with a lot struggling to do more than 10-20Mb.

••••••

pclover

join:2008-08-02
Santa Cruz, CA

1 recommendation

Channel Bonding

The only way this is going to work is if they find a way to do 24 channel bonding in the downstream or more and 8 upstream bonded channels.

•••••••••
bayshun

join:2010-04-29

What does one do with all this bandwidth?

Outside of possibly running servers (I'm not sure what Comcast's policy is on this) what does one do with all that bandwidth? I'm at 30mbps now and very few websites use more than half of it.

This is a legitimate question. I'm trying to wrap my mind around what I'd do with so much bandwidth.

•••••••