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Comments on news posted 2012-07-20 08:44:49: Over the years several communities have gotten upset about the AT&T VRAD cabinets required to deliver the company's U-Verse FTTN/VDSL service. ..

rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

If the Future is Wireless?

Will these cabinets will be unsightly rust-buckets in 20 years?

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

3 recommendations

Robert

Premium Member

Re: If the Future is Wireless?

said by rradina:

Will these cabinets will be unsightly rust-buckets in 20 years?

Nope. They'll be unsightly graffiti ridden rust-buckets in 5 years.

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

1 recommendation

alchav to rradina

Member

to rradina
said by rradina:

Will these cabinets will be unsightly rust-buckets in 20 years?

Who said The Future was Wireless? Granted for certain applications Wireless is better, but The Future is FTTH. Only with Fiber can you expect Solid, Consistent HD Streaming, and all the other Voice and Data Demands!
Cobra11M
join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX

Cobra11M

Member

Re: If the Future is Wireless?

said by alchav:

said by rradina:

Will these cabinets will be unsightly rust-buckets in 20 years?

Who said The Future was Wireless? Granted for certain applications Wireless is better, but The Future is FTTH. Only with Fiber can you expect Solid, Consistent HD Streaming, and all the other Voice and Data Demands!

Very true.. Wireless is horrible... and over priced for what it is.. FTTH is the best and will always be Copper cant compete against it!!
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina to alchav

Member

to alchav
I'm basing that on the fact that the two largest providers of network connectivity seem to have abandonded FTTH , FTTC. AT&T believes in FTTN.

Based on their behavior, the future is wireless.
zed260
Premium Member
join:2011-11-11
Cleveland, TN
Netgear R7000

zed260

Premium Member

Re: If the Future is Wireless?

said by rradina:

I'm basing that on the fact that the two largest providers of network connectivity seem to have abandonded FTTH , FTTC. AT&T believes in FTTN.

Based on their behavior, the future is wireless.

most likely by 20 years time someone will buy out at&t landline divsion and convert these boxes into ftth conduits or at&t will change plans and convert to ftth

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

nunya to rradina

MVM

to rradina
Wireless is where it's all going. The last mile will be soon to follow.
When I say "wireless", I don't mean cellular wireless either. I mean fixed wireless.
OSP in the traditional sense will be old relics or rural landscape fodder.

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

1 edit

alchav

Member

Re: If the Future is Wireless?

said by nunya:

Wireless is where it's all going. The last mile will be soon to follow.
When I say "wireless", I don't mean cellular wireless either. I mean fixed wireless.
OSP in the traditional sense will be old relics or rural landscape fodder.

Wireless will never have the Bandwidth, Security, Consistency, or Reliability of Wired Fiber. I retired from AT&T, and worked with some of the top Silicon Companies, Engineers, and Minds in The Business. When it came to connecting their Networks, Wireless was never in their plans for Professional Connectivity. Like I said, Wireless has it's applications, but it will never match Wired Fiber.

Having said that, I feel AT&T made a mistake going with Copper for their Last Mile U-Verse. Verizon has been the leader here, but has held back due to low demand from it's Users. The demand will pick up when Streaming HD Video, Data, and Voice becomes second nature and Verizon will be at the forfront.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

Re: If the Future is Wireless?

I retired from AT&T too for all that it really matters. Wireline is dead. Wireless already has the bandwidth. Sorry. That's just the way it is.
Wireless will never be "as good" as a wired connection. Younger generations are willing to accept this. The telcos do not want to deal with maintaining an OSP.
Joe Consumer doesn't really give a rats ass about bandwidth numbers. As long as he can look at porn, facebook, youtube, netflix, and use his vonage at the same time, he doesn't care whether his connection is 100 Mbps or 1 Gbps.
Fiber will have it's place, FTTT (fiber to the tower), and FTTP for customers who demand secure and high capacity connections (commercial).
For the Jone's house on Sycamore Rd or the Dairy Queen on Main St., there will be a fixed wireless box screwed to the side of the house. It will deliver one product - bandwidth.
The drops will be cut down. The F2 will go away. It will be cut down and not replaced. It will become a liability, not an asset. In fact, based on the actions of ILECs, it's quite clear that they already consider wireline a thorn in their side. Get rid of most of the plant, and you can get rid of most of the people who maintain it. That means bigger profits. The shareholders are already on board.
The telco's had their chance to upgrade the OSP. Verizon 1/2 assed it with Fios. AT&T screwed the pooch with U-Verse.
While Ma Bell was busy worrying about "long distance" in 1994-2002, cable companies were deploying deep HFC systems and pushing hard on DOCSIS development.
That's why today my local ILEC can offer me 10/768 DSL for 60/mo. The cable company gives me 100/5 for the same price.
The next ten years will belong to the cable companies. Eventually, their outside plant will be a liability as well.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: If the Future is Wireless?

Wishful thinking.. don't care who you worked for. Besides, AT&T? .. that's the company you're putting your reputation behind? They do one thing very well, mass producing crap. AT&T has been calling for the wireless box screwed to the home for over 12 years now. Well?? *crickets*

If the drops get cut down, and the F2 as well, and it goes all wireless, AT&T will simply reduce service, raise prices, claim there is a crunch and the people will CONTINUE to not buy into the crap. In a perfect world you'd be correct, but dude.. if what you're saying is correct, then why are we moving away from unlimited data plans for our little smart phones and being charged up the ass for the data?

Yea.. dream on.. seriously. WORST comment I've ever seen here.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

Re: If the Future is Wireless?

No I'm not "putting my reputation" behind AT&T. Apparently you skim read my post. I said "for all that it really matters", which was in reply to another poster acting as if tenure at AT&T gave magical powers.
No, quite the opposite. I think AT&T has done it all wrong, if you would take the time to actually read and comprehend.
You have to stop thinking of "wireless" as cellular. Wireless cellular or even any current wireless company.
We all know the current "big name" wireless providers are ass holes, and are all in collusion. Just look at what they charge for their services.
Somebody else can come along and do it better for less. And they probably will. The more ignorant the big names get with limits and pricing, the more ripe the market gets for new blood.

Keep the insults to yourself. Totally unnecessary.

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

alchav

Member

Re: If the Future is Wireless?

said by nunya:

No I'm not "putting my reputation" behind AT&T. Apparently you skim read my post. I said "for all that it really matters", which was in reply to another poster acting as if tenure at AT&T gave magical powers.
No, quite the opposite. I think AT&T has done it all wrong, if you would take the time to actually read and comprehend.
You have to stop thinking of "wireless" as cellular. Wireless cellular or even any current wireless company.

I really didn't retire from AT&T, but from Pacific Bell a totally different Company. I was with them for 31 years, working my way up from a Frame Person to a Second Level Service Manager. Mostly in Operations, so I have an understanding in Telco's. I really enjoyed my work, especially after Divestiture in '84 when Ma Bell was split up. Then PacBell went into the Golden Years, and we ran heavy with The Big Boys in The Silicon Valley. So to me Wireless is Wireless, no matter how you cut it and it will never have the Bandwidth of Fiber. You did make some valid points, The Average Person doesn't know any better. So if it works most of the time and not expensive, why not Wireless!

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

Re: If the Future is Wireless?

Don't get me wrong, I do not want to see AT&T go away. Obviously I have a vested interest in them remaining a profitable and viable company.
But, with the advancements in technology and, and the changing customer demographic, I'm not sure how long they will last unless they change their evil ways quickly.
You know as well as I do that the Bell System used to be very proactive in almost every aspect (contrary to what most people think). R&D, safety, routine maintenance, continuing education, etc... That all went away and TA96 was the nail in the coffin. Everything became "reactive" as the whole industry started to spiral into a "race to the bottom", as I like to call it.
About 10 years after divestiture, all the RBOCs could think about was long distance. They cast everything else aside and focused on long distance as their "panacea". They should have been thinking about OSP upgrades and how to rule the bandwidth market.
Today the ILEC's all have long distance, which is a totally irrelevant product. The cable companies have DOCSIS 3.
U-Verse was the last project I worked on. I never actually got to see it come to fruition (I left before it went live). The whole time, I couldn't help but think what a horrible "stop-gap" solution U-Verse was to just doing it right and replacing all the plant with fiber. All the wasted man-hours conditioning U-Verse areas was sickening. Trying to milk 50 year old plant to provide enough bandwidth for HD streams.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina to alchav

Member

to alchav
Wireless is wireless? I disagree. IMO, one of the most interesting things that could be done RIGHT NOW with CURRENT technology is make the last mile wireless with incredibly small, fixed-wireless, highly directional RF devices. When I say last mile, I mean, 5,280 feet. OTS tech could easily deliver symmetrical 100Mbps at which point it jumps on FTTN. In rural areas you could probably go much more than a mile by using wider spectrum since there's less congestion. Since the telcos are working to fiber-connect the cell towers, you might even be able to use a portion of the spectrum for wireless back haul to the closest tower.

IMO the kind of copper we have buried in the ground for POTS isn't worth what it takes to maintain it. Either invest in FTTH or go wireless for the last mile. I predict that a lot of spectrum will become available in the coming years when we realize that a fast network is everywhere and there's little or no need for broadcast-style spectrum. We should use all of it to create "the network" and make sure there's lots of competition or federalize it and fund it with taxes and then allow competitors to deliver services on top of it. I probably prefer the latter since it's already half-ass funded with tax payer dollars in the form of corporate USF welfare and whatever other tax-breaks and incentives we provide firms to deliver what some even go so far as to misrepresent as a constitutional "right" right up there with free speech. Of course that's B.S. but that never stops the misinformed from screaming about how unfair their existence is.
bkwyatt98
join:2012-01-05
Martinsville, VA

bkwyatt98 to alchav

Member

to alchav
I think that maybe in 10-20 years fixed wireless might start to catch on. but right now with different telcos building out fiber it would not make sense to spend all the money on fiber and the equipment with that to serve out VDSl,IPTV etc in my city centurylink has been running fiber quite a bit. most recently they are even running fiber to my area and i live in a semi rural area so I really think for a lot of companies fttn or ftth will be what is going to be used for the foreseeable future. Wireline is always going to be more reliable. a transmitter on a tower is a much easier to get broken or damaged than fiber underground.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

Simple Solution to SA Residents..

Simple solution is to not subscribe to any of AT&T's services that are delivered from the VRAD cabinets.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

Re: Simple Solution to SA Residents..

said by Robert:

Simple solution is to not subscribe to any of AT&T's services that are delivered from the VRAD cabinets.

So then you'll have a large, ugly refrigerator-sized cabinet in your yard that is going completely unused. It's not quite cutting off your nose to spite the face, but it's not too far off.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

Re: Simple Solution to SA Residents..

said by cdru:

said by Robert:

Simple solution is to not subscribe to any of AT&T's services that are delivered from the VRAD cabinets.

So then you'll have a large, ugly refrigerator-sized cabinet in your yard that is going completely unused. It's not quite cutting off your nose to spite the face, but it's not too far off.

How long would AT&T keep a VRAD activated if the cost of maintaining it exceeded any revenue?
mob (banned)
On the next level..
join:2000-10-07
San Jose, CA

mob (banned)

Member

Re: Simple Solution to SA Residents..

said by Robert:

said by cdru:

said by Robert:

Simple solution is to not subscribe to any of AT&T's services that are delivered from the VRAD cabinets.

So then you'll have a large, ugly refrigerator-sized cabinet in your yard that is going completely unused. It's not quite cutting off your nose to spite the face, but it's not too far off.

How long would AT&T keep a VRAD activated if the cost of maintaining it exceeded any revenue?

Until the sun explodes.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

Re: Simple Solution to SA Residents..

said by mob:

Until the sun explodes.

We're talking about AT&T here. If they can't purchase the sun, they'll destroy it themselves before it explodes.

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

1 recommendation

Camelot One

MVM

Re: Simple Solution to SA Residents..

said by Robert:

We're talking about AT&T here. If they can't purchase the sun, they'll destroy it themselves before it explodes.

Nah, they will decide that purchasing the sun isn't worth doing, and fund a "grass-roots" movement to promote legislation preventing anyone else from purchasing or using it.
en103
join:2011-05-02

en103

Member

Re: Simple Solution to SA Residents..

They'll probably fight tooth and nail - fund a grass-roots movement, and after they decide that its not profitable, go and sell it to a mom/pop landline carrier (Frontier) for a tidy profit, and claim it as a tax loss, and compete with it using wireless.
TheRogueX
join:2003-03-26
Springfield, MO

TheRogueX

Member

Re: Simple Solution to SA Residents..

No, that's Verizon.

Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985

Jim Kirk to mob

Premium Member

to mob
said by mob:

Until the sun explodes.

..or the VRAD does.
Moffetts
join:2005-05-09
San Mateo, CA

Moffetts

Member

Re: Simple Solution to SA Residents..

said by Jim Kirk:

said by mob:

Until the sun explodes.

..or the VRAD does.

Hey now, only a few VRADs have exploded so far.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru to Robert

MVM

to Robert
said by Robert:

How long would AT&T keep a VRAD activated if the cost of maintaining it exceeded any revenue?

If the VRAD is replacing the legacy copper POTS, essentially forever until something else comes along.

I don't see them removing the VRAD if subscription rates did not make them effectively viable to run. I do see them stripping them of most/all equipment and just leaving a large metal shell sitting there if/when such a time comes.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena to Robert

Premium Member

to Robert
said by Robert:

said by cdru:

said by Robert:

Simple solution is to not subscribe to any of AT&T's services that are delivered from the VRAD cabinets.

So then you'll have a large, ugly refrigerator-sized cabinet in your yard that is going completely unused. It's not quite cutting off your nose to spite the face, but it's not too far off.

How long would AT&T keep a VRAD activated if the cost of maintaining it exceeded any revenue?

They MAY shut it down at some point if it proves to be a financial failure. (Looking at other U-verse markets though, not likely going to be the case). But they still won't be removing it, as removing it costs MORE money. They will just grab the equipment out, and leave the metal shell, bolted and all into the concrete, sitting where it is sitting.
Cobra11M
join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX

Cobra11M

Member

Re: Simple Solution to SA Residents..

said by maartena:

They MAY shut it down at some point if it proves to be a financial failure. (Looking at other U-verse markets though, not likely going to be the case). But they still won't be removing it, as removing it costs MORE money. They will just grab the equipment out, and leave the metal shell, bolted and all into the concrete, sitting where it is sitting.

look at the old pay phones.. although not many are around, in some areas they are shut off disconnected but left their and not doin anythin

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD

sk1939 to maartena

Premium Member

to maartena
Make a nice shelter for some homeless person.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to Robert

Member

to Robert
Decades. I was in an AT&T tandem a few months ago and they had rows of gear in the CLEC colo area that was powered up doing nothing. According to one of the AT&T techs I know that gear has not been used since the mid 90s. I asked why it was still running and he said that no one has ever issued a ticket to remove or power down the gear so it wasn't anything he was going to worry about.
Cobra11M
join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX

Cobra11M

Member

Re: Simple Solution to SA Residents..

said by battleop:

Decades. I was in an AT&T tandem a few months ago and they had rows of gear in the CLEC colo area that was powered up doing nothing. According to one of the AT&T techs I know that gear has not been used since the mid 90s. I asked why it was still running and he said that no one has ever issued a ticket to remove or power down the gear so it wasn't anything he was going to worry about.

...what a waist of money AT&T prob has many like that they dont even care about the old equipment they just wright it off some where down the line and let it sit in buildings.. runing and not doing anythin a bit of good

•••
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to Robert

Premium Member

to Robert
It will never happen. No corporation such as AT&T would ever have to worry about that because they easily manipulate the consumer and the price they pay. They won't let things slip.. so it's not really an issue.

You can tend to lose a few customers, raise prices very slightly to the rest and actually make more money. It's simple accounting.

AZ_OGM
join:2007-01-12
Phoenix, AZ

AZ_OGM to Robert

Member

to Robert
I thought a read a while back that the death star stopped deploying u-verse (same with VZ for Fios) and those that were eligible could get it; the rest were too bad, so sad.
zed260
Premium Member
join:2011-11-11
Cleveland, TN
Netgear R7000

zed260

Premium Member

Re: Simple Solution to SA Residents..

said by AZ_OGM:

I thought a read a while back that the death star stopped deploying u-verse (same with VZ for Fios) and those that were eligible could get it; the rest were too bad, so sad.

they are still deploying it just not as fast or on same scale as before

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

AT&T won when city cut deal; NIMBY groups always lose

AT&T won their case when they cut a deal with the city. The NIMBY groups only win when they are rich and the company they want to beat isn't and when a long drawn out legal fight is too expensive. AT&T has enough money to beat back NIMBY groups in court and fight over the long haul.
milkman82
join:2006-06-19
Cleveland, OH

milkman82

Member

WOW!

Is AT&T still using cabinets like those in the picture?

Those style cabinets got replaced in my old town with one about half that size and more square. They actually are small enough to where you don't really notice them or care about them....

Also in the case where they are on peoples tree lawns. Didn't they have some kinda box there before these and also would the city carry some blame for allowing that to happen?

•••••••
mob (banned)
On the next level..
join:2000-10-07
San Jose, CA

mob (banned)

Member

Why not do this instead?

»www.wimp.com/invisiblemercedes/

If they can do it on a moving car, I'm pretty sure they could do it on a stationary box.

•••
Rekrul
join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT

Rekrul

Member

I thought...

I thought that the U-Verse expansion was over and that AT&T wasn't going to offer it in any new markets. So why would they need to install any new VRADs?

Chute em
@lmco.com

Chute em

Anon

Why not....

pull a gun on them when they come to install like the woman did when the electric company tried to install a smart meter on her house?
Cobra11M
join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX

Cobra11M

Member

Re: Why not....

said by Chute em :

pull a gun on them when they come to install like the woman did when the electric company tried to install a smart meter on her house?

haha heck yah get off my property!!
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

i have uverser

Its always stable and fast, it rarely slows down. Don't have TV so can't comment on IP TV, but the internet product is decent.
Arty50
Premium Member
join:2003-10-04

Arty50

Premium Member

Meh

This is potentially good news for Sonic, who submitted a permit to run FTTH through most of SF. I wish AT&T luck trying to pit U-Verse against Sonic's 100M/100M and 1G/1G offerings.

•••

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

They can put one on my lawn

AT&T should buy out the landlines in Western Massachusetts since Verizon does not want to expand FiOS here. AT&T has U-Verse in Enfield Connecticut (which is 15 minutes away from my house) but the MA/CT state line seems to be the demarc between AT&T U-Verse and Verizon DSL.

lev
Anyone else remember ISDN?

join:2001-05-30
Goodyear, AZ

lev

Tallest cabinets were, I believe, 63 inches

I remember scalding the Comcast rep over this at a public meeting in Deerfield, Illinois a few years ago when one of your contacts called you later and asked why I was representing DSL Reports (I wasn't, just said I was a moderator) and inquired as to why you couldn't keep me in line.

63 inches is NOT 6 feet. It's 3 inches over 5 feet, so not even 5 1/2.

Stop parroting incorrect information!!!!

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Transmaster

Member

Oh Please

A city bitching about metal cabinets and it's ok for fat hogs to walk around the city naked, which is a worse eye sore.

NMR Guy
@gene.com

NMR Guy

Anon

Lose? Win!

San Fran Residents Lose Battle Over AT&T U-Verse Cabinets
No, San Francisco residents win. The crazy control-freak activists lose.

AT&T is not my favorite company at all, but man do we need some broadband competition here. Even this helps.

motorola870
join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX

motorola870

Member

This is rediculous. Customers want service but want to whine

I find it funny that people in California and Connecticut want to whine about Uverse VRADs heck Uverse and Fios being deployed in my market made TWC launch 50/5 and 30/5 tiers because of increased competition. I did not see people in my area complain about uverse coming to town here in Texas.

I also find it funny that TWC might get sued in California over chalk markings for an advertisement for a wifi network that is not permitted without city approval due to a dumb provision in state law that does not allow for service providers to provide wifi to the public without city permission. You would think that they would welcome technological advancements but they are too snobby and worry that an advertisement is graffiti.

»www.easyreadernews.com/5 ··· ication/

leec
@myvzw.com

leec

Anon

one in every town

This creates jobs and service..... ohhhh the travisity
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

I'd be more opposed to not getting FTTH

I don't mind the VRADs themselves, but rather I hate them as a symbol of a lack of initiative and investment on AT&T's part.
Keefer21
join:2012-07-06
Hilton, NY

Keefer21

Member

We all know how well at&t maintains their equip...

Who remembers when those uverse boxes started exploding in neighborhoods.. that might be an area of concern i can agree with.. also at&t's track history or any telcos keeping up good maintenance on their equipment.

anyone ever see this article.

»www.dispatch.com/content ··· ced.html