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Comments on news posted 2012-07-20 14:31:56: Back in April you'll recall that Verizon stopped selling standalone DSL, taking us back to the stone age of broadband when users were forced to bundle a costly landline they no longer want. ..

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zoom314

join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
·Time Warner Cable

2 recommendations

No landline here

Nope I'm dry loop here and I'm not a Verizon customer anymore, My ISP(which is in the Verizon area) is DSL Extreme, I doubt I'll be moving to TW cable and I sure don't want LTE at all, not for what Verizon charges, they can keep that and stick the prices for LTE where the sun doesn't shine...



Ben Dover

@comcast.net

Oooooooh!

Thank God the telcos pushed through legislation preventing municipal broadband. With LTE and high-priced overages, they can bend us over and give us some good "luvin".


Cobra11M

join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX

said by Ben Dover :

Thank God the telcos pushed through legislation preventing municipal broadband. With LTE and high-priced overages, they can bend us over and give us some good "luvin".

LTE= the new satellite did you hear?


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

1 recommendation

I still keep a landline

I prefer to have a landline as I have a home security system and I like having enhanced 911 capability (where the 911 dispatcher can see the exact address of the 911 call as opposed to a general location, especially in a duplex where they can see what side of the duplex the call is originating from). I also like having a landline as you are much less likely to have a call drop, especially when calling an 800 number that makes you push the "0" key 95 times to get put in queue for an operator and then you wait on hold for about 5 hours before getting a live operator. I have had calls on cell phones that have dropped when calling an 800 number and you have to call back and you get someone else and you have to explain the situation all over again.

If Verizon really wanted to rid itself of union labor, they would use contractors to do outside plant work (like Comcast does all the time with installs). But considering they don't outsource all their techs, it seems to be a non-issue for them.


Os

join:2011-01-26
US
Reviews:
·Comcast

It Doesn't Make Sense

Unless cable makes the caps so punitive in nature, moreso than they are, Verizon isn't going to get people to switch to a fixed LTE product. I don't get how they benefit, unless there's some really awful collusion in place for VZ to get a kickback for every triple play sign-up.

As for the drive to kill unions in this country, that is systemic of almost all businesses and certainly of both political parties.

I also think it's a higher percentage than 35-45% of VZ's footprint that isn't going to be able to get FiOS. Granted, they've already sold off a lot, and I'm sure they'd like to sell more if they can find someone dumb enough to buy the rural parts of MD, PA, NY and VA.



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

said by Os:

Unless cable makes the caps so punitive in nature, moreso than they are, Verizon isn't going to get people to switch to a fixed LTE product. I don't get how they benefit ...

It could be that landline maintenance is so costly that even if no users switch to LTE, Verizon still saves money.
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.


thegeek
Premium
join:2008-02-21
right here
kudos:2

What's the Problem?

Get rid of costly labor. Increase prices. Reduce costs. How else is a business supposed to make a profit. I just don't see the problem here. The great thing is if you don't like it you can vote with your wallet and use a competitor. And last I checked internet is not a necessity, it is only a want. If you want it bad enough then you pay the prices required to get it.


Os

join:2011-01-26
US
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to pnh102

Re: It Doesn't Make Sense

Right, but how can LTE be profitable if nobody's using it?

$50 for 2GB of internet is just never going to be a price people are willing to pay unless they have no other choice.

Unless there's some tacit agreement to bring that pricing to cable, it's just never going to work for Verizon. And if that pricing comes to cable, we're honestly headed for economic gridlock and revolution.



MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1
reply to Os

I think LTE to rural is more their excuse to kill DSL, they don't seem to really care if rural users go to cable, as long as they can get out of maintaining copper.

But it seems short sighted to me to abandon 35 - 45% of your footprint, but most companies as short sighted these days as they follow the investors lead and desire short term profits. It's the same reason they killed the FIOS buildout.



Alex J

@apexcovantage.com
reply to thegeek

Re: What's the Problem?

What's the Problem?

You mean aside from incumbent phone and cable companies forming a massive cartel designed to kill all competitors while dramatically raising already high prices by cornering the market -- resulting in an actual reduction in modern phone and broadband connectivity?


MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to thegeek

Normal market forces don't really apply to broadband, where their are at most 2 or 3 options, in most cases 2 and in some places only 1.

Voting with your wallet doesn't work in this instance.



cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to zoom314

Re: No landline here

said by zoom314:

Nope I'm dry loop here and I'm not a Verizon customer anymore, My ISP(which is in the Verizon area) is DSL Extreme

Who do you think owns and runs those dry loops? Hint: It's not DSL Extreme. One of the few things that Verizon would like to get rid of more then their copper users are ILEC's copper users.

Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06
reply to thegeek

Re: What's the Problem?

I really want someone to slap you, and I'm willing to pay...


elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

4 recommendations

reply to thegeek

What kind of crap is that. A toilet isn't a need either but as civilized humans we have determined that running water is a societal benefit and hence sewer systems. People used to pour their crap on the sidewalks.

As for Internet, without it it is the same as not having running water or sewage. To succeed in an information society you need connectivity. If they can pull fiber in the poorest parts of the world, we can have it. When I was in India they were pulling fiber (massive spools) by digging trenches by hand and laying it by hand. It is a matter of priority and government willingness. Private corps will only go where there is maximum profit with minimal input --aka the juicy burbs.

If you put your head in the sand, the rest of the world gets it. We will become a third world country, wake up and wonder why. However the stockholders will be happy.

A few points:

1. Telco in the US is not open and competitive. They created a moat by lobbying and the fact the US never got around to requiring every home to have fiber connected to it--a "utility".
1a. How much waste is there when I have a coax, fiber, and an RJ11 jack sitting on the side of my house?
2. The ERA (electrical act) which allowed communities/coops to "self fund" and get folks on electricity has been bypassed by telco's forcing states to not allow this through legislation, now small communities are essentially at the mercy of these corporations.
3. The FCC is a rotating door of telco execs who pat each other on the back and form "rules" as such. If they don't like the outcomes, they take it to the courts which they have bought too through campaign funding.
4. Every one of these companies took PUBLIC money to build out their networks, and well they are not fulfilling their contract with the citizens.
5. If I wanted to start a WISP, I guarantee you it would take years to get through the red tape and getting easements or licensing making the cost prohibitive for an entrepreneur. You would be forced to run over an existing providers wire...

If you think people have a "vote" they do not. The deck has been stacked and the government is the enabler. I didn't grow up in the days of JP Morgan, Dupont, and all those other barons however I'm sure the populace felt the same way back in those days as people do today.


axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
reply to Os

Re: It Doesn't Make Sense

I think there are people who will pay that. It's less expensive than cable internet.


stunod2002

join:2003-11-07
Carol Stream, IL

Kind of sucks

I know Wireless has made huge strides recently but I don't see it being a source for my broadband anytime soon... I'll go do cable (uggg) before I go to Wireless...
--
Stunod


big_e

join:2011-03-05

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to thegeek

Re: What's the Problem?

The arguments against rural broadband deployment are the same used a hundred years ago to oppose rural electrification.

"And last I checked electricity is not a necessity, it is only a want. If you want it bad enough then you pay the prices required to get it."

LTE is equivilant to the electric company selling you batteries instead of hooking your house up to the grid.


jeffreydean1

join:2010-05-31

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to thegeek

People like you are ruining our once great country, destroying the middle class, and removing ther American Dream from sight forever.


Os

join:2011-01-26
US
reply to axus

Re: It Doesn't Make Sense

Not when you factor in overage fees.

Even Grandma looking at e-mails is going over 2GB.


Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

1 recommendation

reply to elefante72

Re: What's the Problem?

said by elefante72:

As for Internet, without it it is the same as not having running water or sewage.

Dumb analogy. Nobody ever got dysentery from a lack of internet access.

People in rural areas pay money to maintain wells and septic tanks. Strange how nobody advocates subsidizing those but a good number of people around here think that rural internet access should be subsidized.


ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4

said by Crookshanks:

said by elefante72:

As for Internet, without it it is the same as not having running water or sewage.

Dumb analogy. Nobody ever got dysentery from a lack of internet access.

People in rural areas pay money to maintain wells and septic tanks. Strange how nobody advocates subsidizing those but a good number of people around here think that rural internet access should be subsidized.

Maybe because of the name of the site being DSLreports and not wellsndsepticreports.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org

davidtheweb

join:2011-01-29
Salt Lake City, UT

Empoverishing the U.S. one town at a time?

There are areas this behavior more deeply affects than might be seen on the surface. Think of the percentage of paying jobs that are online now. With this behavior by both Verizon and CenturyLink, there are areas with unreliable internet access, and thus can't benefit from the economics of online work.

But the only way to break their behavior is to really get politically active about it. Get your representative's ear and make a logical, well-constructed case about the problems these companies are causing.



Jim_in_VA

join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Metrocast Commun..
reply to stunod2002

Re: Kind of sucks

wireless has been my source for broadband for the last two years, and not telco wireless. I use a local WISP. Those guys are saviors for rural if you have a good one (I do).
--
... need help? »evdo-tips.com/



newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·Comcast

I know how to cut copper too

quote:
"Every place we have FiOS, we are going to kill the copper," Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam recently told attendees of an investor conference. "We are going to just take it out of service. Areas that are more rural and more sparsely populated, we have got LTE built that will handle all of those services and so we are going to cut the copper off there."
Fuck you, Verizon ... I know how to cut copper too. I've eliminated EVERY Verizon dependent device in my home ... cell phones & landlines & you never even offered DSL in my rural area at all so I went with cable years ago.

So why in the hell are you still sending me marketing bullshit via USPS?


MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to jeffreydean1

Re: What's the Problem?

I really hope the American people wake up to this fact, because these false "open markets' which are completely rigged and getting worse due increasing corporate control of our government are destroying this country. As well as the people who blindly support it.

If you remove regulations and allow corporations to do whatever they want to make a profit, it will not result in economic growth for the country, it will result in increased centralization of wealth and increasing the gap between the rich and the poor.



Mr Fel
Premium
join:2008-03-17
Louisville, KY
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service

1 recommendation

reply to Cobra11M

Re: Oooooooh!

Except the high satellite ping times, granted LTE will still have higher ping times than a landline would (and does) have. Not a fan of this solution though.
--
Change the scheme, alter the mood! Electrify the boys and girls if you'd be so kind.



viperm
Carpe Diem
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Winchester, CA
reply to stunod2002

Re: Kind of sucks

Wireless is a VERY VERY good format for broadband IF and I say IF it is done correctly. We have been doing it for many years and have made lots of money and grown our company. We have seen other wisps come and go but only because they did not plan and decided to use linksys crap to run thier networks..

Customers are happy with the service and willnever go back to a telco or cable provider. We strive to make our service and experience an enjoyable one.
--
»www.accelwireless.com
ComTrain Certified Tower Climber.
Wireless and IT consultant.
Proficient in Mikrotik



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
reply to newview

Re: I know how to cut copper too

said by newview:

So why in the hell are you still sending me marketing bullshit via USPS?

Someone has to keep the USPS up and running.
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

2 recommendations

reply to Crookshanks

Re: What's the Problem?

Maybe not but people DIE.

My wife is a physician. One night in the hospital an emergency occurred and the radiologist was not available. They sent the xrays over to Australia via the "optional" internet, and he caught a lung issue, otherwise the person would have died. This was in "rural" upstate NY with a town of 200,000 people.

And I pay a sewer tax, which gets me my effluence flushed. I guess that is a subsidy you are talking about. And I pay a water utility tax to get me water, along w/ consumption fee. I pay a library tax, I pay a highway tax, I pay a medicare tax, I pay for 20% of the people in my county to work for the government.

For rural areas, having access to these types of services help save lives and bring services that make everyone's lives better than ever before. The list goes on, and the benefits to internet access are infinite. Look up robotic/remote doctors. You need an internet for this.

I spend a good chunk my free time working w/ small business and communities to get proper internet access. You would be ashamed to know how bad it is out there. A small business (3 people) I was working with, TWC wanted $90/month for 3Mbs/384k and another $120 a month for basic dialtone (2 lines). Sounds like a deal.

As to subsidies, if we took the USF and put it into fibre, we could have already wired America with fibre.

I heard from inside sources that a POP now averages $300 per house to wire w/ a GPON. A family of 4 could pay that to Verizon every month. I will concede in rural areas it would cost more, however w/ Corning Clearcurve the installation costs have gone dramatically down and the ease of installation up so that any guy that is handy could wire (not terminate yet).

I had to pay $4k to get electricity ran to my house when it was built and I live in the cushy burbs.

Priorities....


jeffreydean1

join:2010-05-31
reply to MovieLover76

It's not so much the removal of regulations that's the problem, but allowing the most powerful corporations to WRITE the regulations and laws, allowing them to take full legal advantage over any and all competition while sending their own retired executives to enforce the regulations they helped write.

This isn't capitalism. No true competition can exist in this situation.