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Comments on news posted 2012-07-20 14:31:56: Back in April you'll recall that Verizon stopped selling standalone DSL, taking us back to the stone age of broadband when users were forced to bundle a costly landline they no longer want. ..

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ricky_005

join:2012-01-17
united state

Monopoly

If I knew I could get financial support through donations I would setup a site to form a class action lawsuit against the US government.

If the people don't unite all will be lost!
bluestarkidd

join:2012-07-28
Pacific Palisades, CA

Re: Monopoly

That's the most intelligent thing I have ever seen someone say on a forum..
maikii

join:2012-08-08
Pacific Palisades, CA
said by ricky_005:

If I knew I could get financial support through donations I would setup a site to form a class action lawsuit against the US government.

If the people don't unite all will be lost!

Wouldn't it make sense for the class-action suit to be against Verizon, the subject of this thread, and one of the worst companies in history? Why the government?

The government should do a much better job of regulating mega-monopolistic corporations like Verizon. (Perhaps that is what you meant, but still the villain here is Verizon.) Ever since the Reagan presidency there has been far too much deregulation, and far too little regulation. And--there always has been far too much money in politics. Companies like Verizon and ATT bribe politicians big time, who look the other way. We need to make it clear to our representatives that we don't accept that, and vote out the corrupt politiicians in both parties.

Also--why would you need donations to start a class-action lawsuit? I think lawyers take those on contingency, not needing money up front. Of course they would only take one if the chance of winning it looks very good, with a big payoff for themselves.

Verizon seems to be just about the worst example of what can happen with a monopoly--a company with total disregard for its customers. (Not a monopoly with mobile, although I don't know why anyone would choose them, but landline and DSL are a joint monopoly of ATT and Verizon, depending on your address.)

By the way, who else hates the "Verizon theme music", that one has to hear over and over ad nauseam on the hours one has to wait on hold when one tries to get any kind of customer service or tech support on the telephone? I hate that very lame excuse for "music".

Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

It's true

When I had Verizon DSL it was nearly the worst 4 years of my life. With the DSL signal knocking out the telephone and needing to "jumpstart" the line by calling it with my cellphone, and the constant secretly cancelled tech appointments, I had enough and ran to Comcast full speed.

For example I had issues with the line constantly being dead or staticy so I would call Verizon and schedule a tech visit and they would give me an appointment so I would stay home but then the tech doesn't come, causing me to call in and find out what happened only I would be told that they corrected the issue on their end and cancelled the appointment--without telling me, the customer, that I didn't need to wait at home because they cancelled the appointment. This happened EIGHT TIMES in the period of two weeks. Finally I decided to NOT stay home and go to work and as luck would have it that was the one time the tech actually showed up! When I called in to complain that I was going to go to Comcast, I was told to "go ahead" by a customer rep.

Dr Dialtone

@sbcglobal.net

Verizon is the Beast!

Verizon in California has a carried out there plan to the "T". You see, just about 2 years ago they started coming down on all the GTE vets from the late 70's and to this day have pushed them out the door. Unlike the east coast union contract, on the west, if you get fired the company can hold your pension. So with that fear, once management had a couple of strikes on a employee, he then ran out the door taking his 400K pension with him. I laugh, because if Verizon just had some real professional managers (dickheads) they could have probably wiped out CWA/IBEW from verzion west coast about 3 years ago. But leave it up to poor decision making in the 2004-2006 hiring event which verizon management took on alot of jaskass's. No body put a gun to there head and said hire Willie's nephew or son-in-law. See unlike the east coast, employee numbers are down considerably from 2 years ago showing that the increase in micro managing is paying off. Now for the icing on the cake, Verizon is now charging customers for techs to come out and fix in house dsl problems, unlike before they fixed issues for free. Now it is a 85 dollar charge, and people are running to FIOS and Cable at a rate never seen before in California. The days of being a Verizon Copper Technician are long gone, but a few still think they can milk it like the old days, and they wonder why they got suspended. LOL! Heck, some of them still walk around there work reporting location's as if the craft of telephony is respected. Nobody gives a shit if you can find were the trouble is at on two 26 gage copper conductors. Pack your belongings and retire already, enjoy your pension and don't look back.
p51d007
Naa-P51d Mustang

join:2002-06-07
Springfield, MO

Kill the copper!!

It's not just "the unions" that any carrier might want to kill off.
It's the stupid copper! Do you realize how expensive it is to
repair & maintain copper? As someone who has to deal with the
fallout of poor copper, I would love it if they would eliminate it
altogether. Bandwith wise, it sucks. Crossover problems, attenuation, signal degradation among a few problems. People
who still use the SLOW devices called fax machines, well, lets just say about anytime you get a good size rain storm, my service call load goes UP. Drive down any street that has a good size trunk line running overhead, something like the photo above, and notice you will more than likely find a HUGE "air tank" strapped to a pole. What they are doing is pumping liquid nitrogen through the line to freeze out and evaporate any moisture that has gotten into the line. That water, corrosive in nature, over time, degrades the copper, causing the "bacon frying" sound you hear on the lines, the "I can hear other conversations" problems, which attenuates, gain hits, crosstalk the line to where it doesn't work. On DSL, this results in signal loss, dropouts, low bandwith etc.
I don't blame them for getting rid of copper. Plus, with the price of copper, you've seen numerous stories where some idiots will climb a pole in a somewhat rural area, cut the trunk line just to get to the copper. Fiber, initially is expensive, somewhat to deploy, but, over time (unless some dope cuts an underground cable) it is less expensive to maintain, has a HIGHER capacity, and is pretty much resistant to induced noise.
--
Coming to you from the home of Ozark Mountain Country. Where the air is clean, fishing is great, and we actually wear SHOES!
Expand your moderator at work

Redshift

@comcast.net

Re: Kill the copper!!

said by p51d007:

It's not just "the unions" that any carrier might want to kill off.
It's the stupid copper! Do you realize how expensive it is to
repair & maintain copper? As someone who has to deal with the
fallout of poor copper, I would love it if they would eliminate it
altogether. Bandwith wise, it sucks. Crossover problems, attenuation, signal degradation among a few problems. People
who still use the SLOW devices called fax machines, well, lets just say about anytime you get a good size rain storm, my service call load goes UP. Drive down any street that has a good size trunk line running overhead, something like the photo above, and notice you will more than likely find a HUGE "air tank" strapped to a pole. What they are doing is pumping liquid nitrogen through the line to freeze out and evaporate any moisture that has gotten into the line. That water, corrosive in nature, over time, degrades the copper, causing the "bacon frying" sound you hear on the lines, the "I can hear other conversations" problems, which attenuates, gain hits, crosstalk the line to where it doesn't work. On DSL, this results in signal loss, dropouts, low bandwith etc.
I don't blame them for getting rid of copper. Plus, with the price of copper, you've seen numerous stories where some idiots will climb a pole in a somewhat rural area, cut the trunk line just to get to the copper. Fiber, initially is expensive, somewhat to deploy, but, over time (unless some dope cuts an underground cable) it is less expensive to maintain, has a HIGHER capacity, and is pretty much resistant to induced noise.

Your statements are correct except for one thing. They do not pump liquid nitrogen into cables. Pulp cables have dry air pressure applied to them from the central office to keep moisture from seeping in. The cable pictured in your post is a "pic" cable that does not require air pressure. If you saw a nitrogen tank attached to a cable, it was a temporary fix until air could be applied from the central office.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

Splice heaven
Oh yes, much less complicated looking
TrekfanII

join:2000-10-14
Bronx, NY

this report is right

I've been a DSL user almost since it came out and became available here in the Bronx and quite frankly I'm disappointed the way they Verizon handled it. I mean they are charging me for a speed tier that they could not give me. But they still charged me for. I was anticipating better performance but my needs for my family were far outpacing what they were giving me. So I changed to cable and so far so good with their speed tiers. They do no not have FIos in my area so this is why I went with the cable company after so many years with them. They changed their deployment here in the Bronx and so I had to adjust too. Sad.

ddg4005
Premium
join:2001-08-22
Bronx, NY

Re: this report is right

said by TrekfanII:

I've been a DSL user almost since it came out and became available here in the Bronx and quite frankly I'm disappointed the way they Verizon handled it. I mean they are charging me for a speed tier that they could not give me. But they still charged me for. I was anticipating better performance but my needs for my family were far outpacing what they were giving me. So I changed to cable and so far so good with their speed tiers. They do no not have FIos in my area so this is why I went with the cable company after so many years with them. They changed their deployment here in the Bronx and so I had to adjust too. Sad.

I did the same thing. When I moved three years ago my speeds took a dive and Verizon couldn't do anything. I switched to Cablevision's Optimum Online with Boost Plus and I'm loving it. Even if Fios were to become available in my neighborhood I'm not sure I'd switch. My router (Asus RT-66U) is far better than anything Verizon offers and my upload and download speeds are steady (using a DOCSIS 3 modem).
--
A man must have a code -Bunk

pjmeli

@embarqhsd.net
Get rid of unions and cut wages...

translates to union workers having less money to spend...

translates to less income to those who would be the target of their spending...

translates to less income to the next target....and so on.

It's a closed system folks. Cutting anyone's income cuts everyone's income except the guy that profits, who then saves a lot of it... depriving everyone else of the income that would have come from it.

uiopiopiop

@rr.com

It's the same old song with a different meaning....

Utica, NY was the radio capital of the world. GE hated unions and told us to work cheaper. We said" "No the Japs are beating us because we build tube radios & they build transistor" (it's hard to find a 110 volt outlet on the beach). They moved to ireland, mexico, and a few other places before stopping production all together.

If you want to get rich, listen to workers.

I have many Verizon horror stories. I have no doubt they will run things into the ground and sell of it's dead carcass.
tailsandy

join:2009-10-02
142133

Service has gone downhill.

I hate having verizon, I've been having all sorts of trouble with my connection lately.
massysett

join:2006-01-04
Silver Spring, MD

So they're supposed to maintain an ancient network?

Your ability to find a cloud in every silver lining amuses me. High speed broadband is available to most of the country, with rural areas getting higher speeds than ever through a high-tech, convenient medium--LTE--which, unlike a twisted pair, is mobile. The technology is cutting edge and upgradeable.

All of this, of course, costs money, so you are complaining that Verizon wants to--shock--charge money so that people can use the network they have invested in? Or I guess you want them to maintain an ancient Bell-system era twisted pair network that has been made obsolete by HFC and fiber networks in urban areas and LTE in rural areas?

If Verizon instead decided to milk DSL dry for all it's worth, you would be complaining that the US is not investing in next-gen technologies. Well guess what: you can't have it all. Now that VZ has sunk billions into LTE I don't know why you expect them to maintain an obsolete twisted pair network.

And don't start on the whole thing about how expensive it is for rural people to get broadband. As a city dweller my rent is three times higher than someone who lives in the country, and I don't see rural folks whining about that. Pay up for the high-speed broadband, move to the city, or keep getting your DVDs by Netflix mail if you want to save on some bandwidth.

jduffy
Premium
join:2006-08-20
Cincinnati, OH
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Vonage
·net2phone
·Cincinnati Bell
·Skype
·Callcentric
·ooma

I don't blame Verizon

I don't blame them from wanting to get away from unions. The only industry with unions that is growing is government. Unions have killed off autos, steel, airlines, machine tool manufacturing, etc. Unions excessive demands, poor work performance have made it impossible for companies to be competitive. So out with the old high cost, and in with the new low cost.
--
Atheists swear there is no Heaven, but pray there isn't a Hell.

laidoff tech

@optonline.net

Re: I don't blame Verizon

I can agree with you about this. I worked my arse off at Verizon. I watched a few family members make a career out of being there. In the end, I was Riffed. Then again after working there and seeing the attitudes that some workers had, I understood why my father would say "so and so never worked a day in their life when they worked there..." It's true. There were a number of people there who never held a real job outside the company job besides maybe a bag boy position when they were in high school. The many who I met there started working there when they were 19 or 20. Those who were a little older had military service. A couple I met had their service bridged into their work. In the 60s and early 70s Bell would incorporate your time served in the military as time served with the company.

I also met a number of people who wanted to do the right thing but could not. My supervisor wanted to give me a merit raise due to my quick learning abilities but could not due to being in a bargained position. I met an old timer who insisted on wanting to help you fix your repair order. He was one of a handful of helpful CO techs I met in my time. His experience and knowledge of people in the company got people service or back in service.

I met techs who would give me the time to teach me a thing or two about how to do my job better. Those guys took the early retirement in which one of them was a special circuits tech. Best part, many of the school signage and other town/city lighting is run on these circuits and the techs who know how to work on them are leaving. Copper is more than just POTS.

Reality is Verizon is going to find away to deregulate its remaining assets in the next few years. They are in fact union busting. They have been since the days well before Lowell Mc Adams took office. The last CEO was more into dealing with the unions than the current administration. Lowell came up from wireless. They only know towers, stores and sales quotas. They are trying to replicate that environment on the wireline side while they still have it.

Before I was discharged, I spoke with a tech that I rolled with in my first days on the job. He wanted to say goodbye if he didn't speak with me again. He said he was told that he was going to be secured with a job at Verizon until 2014. Now that I was gone, he doesn't see him making it to 2014. Then he paused and said, kid don't be surprised that one day in the not so distant future that Verizon figures out how to get the guy who rolls around in a white 1984 Dodge van with a ladder on the roof coming to your door to fix a NDT call out for $10 a job. I had a good laugh but now it seems his clairvoyance might be true. I would not be surprised in a few months seeing Prince Telecom rolling trucks with "Authorized Verizon Contractor" on the side right next to the Cablevision or Comcast logos.

Especially now there is talk of another possibility of a walkout in which if there is a one, the union busted itself at Verizon. Whatever leg they had left will be on the floor. Verizon in the end would get what it wanted. Don't worry the IBEW and CWA elected officials will have a nice golden parachute of their own as they comfortably land on the ground with their double or even triple pensions!
countscabula

join:2010-03-09
Unions serve a valuable purpose in corporations. You can make bonehead decisions and run the whole thing in the ground and the union will always get the blame. Always. Why do you think they keep them around? They could break every union in the country right now if they wanted to with all these folks out of work. I doubt it would take them a full year to do it. Run it in the ground, declare bankruptcy, then claim you can't afford to pay their pensions, even though you paid 10 billion dollars in dividends like it was nothing for the last 10 years. Hell pay 4 billion dollars for a failed merger, that was surely the unions fault somehow. But I will agree the govt is growing out of control, no doubt.

jduffy
Premium
join:2006-08-20
Cincinnati, OH
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Vonage
·net2phone
·Cincinnati Bell
·Skype
·Callcentric
·ooma

Re: I don't blame Verizon

I don't know, I've not seen anyone making unions the scapegoat for bonehead management decisions.

Where I live Delta Airlines announced that they are shutting down Comair, I think by the end of this year.

Delta bought Comair some years ago. A few years after Comair was acquired, union pilots went on strike. Comair never recovered and started a slow death march.

Look most recently at the auto industry. While Detroit had its share of bonehead decisions, the real culprit was all these excessive union benefits and pension obligations. I was killing the companies....let me rephrase, it killed those companies.

Without all the union bennies, Detroit could have survived without going BK.

Add in the steel and a number other industries and you see a pattern.
--
Atheists swear there is no Heaven, but pray there isn't a Hell.
maikii

join:2012-08-08
Pacific Palisades, CA

1 recommendation

Cut out the union-bashing, Duffy! (And by the way, your avatar is quite offensive.)

It is unions that have allowed the growth of the middle class to become the majority of the population in the US and other developed countries. If workers had not joined together to demand their rights, the companies would pay people sub-subsistence wages, and most people would be poor. (With the majority being poor, far fewer people could buy the products and services of the corporations. So in the end it probably helps business, that workers have to be paid decently.)

Enough of the demonizing and blaming of worker's pensions. No one ever got rich off a worker's pension. What is obscene are the extremely inflated management salaries, hundreds of times higher than what the workers make.

We can see what happens in a country where free unions are suppressed, where only a government-controlled puppet union with no right to strike exists, in China and other countries, where the workers are terribly exploited, and some commit suicide as a result.
(Quite unfortunate that our government allows companies to outsource everything to such countries, basically with slave labor.)

It was the labor unions in Poland and other Eastern European countries, with brave leaders like Lech Walesa, who led the struggle for freedom against communist totalitarianism, in fighting for worker's rights.

My mom was a union organizer back in the 1930s, and I am proud of her role. And I'm a proud union member myself.

Enough union-bashing please!

Bashful Bob

@myvzw.com

It's far worse than you think.

Regarding Verizon's LTE backhaul, their Fiber To The Cell Site (FTTCS) program is designed to provide the G-ethernet feed for the rural LTE.

And guess what.......at least in Pennsylvania, it's being funded with state subsidized money from the Chapter 30 BFFR bucket.

In other words, Verizon is taking state money intended for BFRR designated DSL provisioning, and using it to build the fiber feed for their LTE network.

Let's hope the regulators pick up on this as someone should go to jail.

xpbx
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08

this has been in the works for a long time

saw this coming 10 years ago. was vocal then, and since but it always falls on deaf ears. shame, really.

bulb

@cox.net

telecom no longer a good career

I'm actually a DSLR member, logged out due to fear of retaliation from bosses:

I got into long-haul telecom about 5 years ago with a company who has contracts with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd tier carriers (think some of the major ones, some you haven't heard of), plus a few of the major equipment vendors, like Ciena, Infinera, etc. We as a contractor are obviously non-union. According to DOL statistics I'm paid about $10/hr less than I should be for my skill set and haven't seen any type of raise yet - not even COLA. I constantly work 20-plus hour shifts - the one time I chose not to work after a 17-hour shift due to fatigue and being too tired to drive I was written up. Even when you're on vacation they still call you on emergency jobs, telling you in the process "you don't have to do it, just don't be surprised when your position's been eliminated after your vacation" - I was once told this while holding my then 7-hour old newborn daughter in the maternity ward. I just recently got my VERY FIRST REVIEW AFTER 4 1/2 YEARS and they literally stonewalled any chance of giving me a raise because of, get this, showing up late to work, once, three years ago, WHEN THEIR COMPANY VEHICLE STRANDED ME ON THE SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY. Also during this particular incident, I had to pay out of my pocket(and await reimbursement), towing fees, rental car fees, hotel stay, and vehicle repair costs (transmission replacement) totaling about $4000!!! - and yes, we have company credit cards - they're just too cheap to use them, except for gasoline and minor materials as needed by customers. I've never been a pro-union guy (having previously been a union member for 13 years), but if this is the fate of the American worker I'll take union over non-union any day of the week.

Edit: Before you type "just find another job", you think I really haven't been trying to?

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State

Yep!

They're 20 day cell phone service pushed me out. My next stop is Wallyworld.
--
Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Pacbell/AT&T/Nameoftheweek drove me to cable in 1998...

...and I have no intention of returning. AT&T blows goat and the goat reports they're bad at it. VoCable rules.
iStrain

join:2010-09-02
Houston, TX

getting fed up

Verizon kept promising FiOS in my area (just outside Houston) for years and never delivered. Oh, they made it look good, even had a website where you could leave your email and be notified the minute your area got FiOS. One of their techs installed a new NID at my home about 5 years ago and said, "I'm not supposed to tell you this, but FiOS will be in this neighborhood within a year." Lies.. all lies.. They knew from the start they would never install FiOS here.

I bought into Verizon's DSL in 2005 and I'm STILL stuck at 3Mbps in a city of 80k+ residents (hardly rural), yet just a few miles away in less populated towns they've had FiOS for years!

Cable was never considered as a viable alternative, as I prefer a dedicated (not shared) connection, so it's Verizon DSL or nothing.

What pisses me off most is that I've been billed a "federal subscriber line" charge of $6.50 per month which I discovered is not mandated by the government. From fcc.gov:
quote:
It is not a tax or a fee charged by the government. The money received from the subscriber line charge goes directly to local telephone companies. To ensure that all Americans can afford at least a minimal level of basic telephone service, the FCC will not allow phone companies to charge more than $6.50 for a single line.
I called and complained about this optional fee and was told basically they won't drop it and would rather drop me. So yeah, the greedy bastards are charging the max allowed and don't give a rat's ass what their customers think about it.

Also, this year they jacked my DSL rate up another 3 bucks/mo. for what was, at the time, apparently no reason and they then yanked FTP; pay more to get less is the trend nowadays.

I would surmise that the increased rate and that $6.50 have been going toward building their LTE infrastructure, essentially meaning I've been paying extra to ensure that those customers (among which I likely won't count myself) get faster connections than I have -- you're fucking welcome!

Since Verizon will likely never bring FiOS here, I'll be forced to switch to cable, LTE (if it's even available and I want to continue to be screwed by Verizon) or be SOL.

I also happen to be one of the few old school holdouts who still uses copper POTS for voice calls. I suppose I'll also be forced to go VoIP in the near future as well -- let me guess.. for a premium.

All this, to me, illustrates Verizon's disdain for many of its loyal DSL/landline customers, including those who are not rural.

antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4

They already did for me!

Others and I can't get DSL (since the early 2000s before Verizon took over GTE) and FIOS in my Verizon home areas. Cable is the only option for cheap and fast Internet services.
hescominsoon

join:2003-02-18
Brunswick, MD
Reviews:
·Comcast

I can confirm this story

My MIL is moving to comcast internet. her dsl after years of working well has been nothing but a nightmare for the past few months. Vz has been dragging their feet on a problem they've said is on their end. My MIL doesn't use the "required" landline anymore(she's on my cell plan) so dropping vz altogether is an easy choice..however i'm Sprint not VZ wireless so they won't be gaining her profits..:)
--
ignorance can be fixed
Carpe Ductum - "Grab the Tape"
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