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Comments on news posted 2012-07-24 12:39:54: Last week we exclusively reported that Comcast would soon be offering users a new 305 Mbps downstream, 65 Mbps upstream tier intended to top Verizon's new Quantum offerings. ..

page: 1 · 2

hello123454
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Wilmington, DE
kudos:1

I don't get it....

Comcast's 300 Mbps won't equal Verizon's 300 Mbps....

Both companies are going back and forth on numbers when in reality Verizon has much more leverage with how their network is setup....

Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Vonage
·Comcast
·Comcast Digital ..

Re: I don't get it....

said by hello123454:

Comcast's 300 Mbps won't equal Verizon's 300 Mbps....

Both companies are going back and forth on numbers when in reality Verizon has much more leverage with how their network is setup....

Oh? You don't think each 300 the companies put out will match? Do you have FiOS with the 300 speed and can test it out and post some screenshots?
flashcore

join:2007-01-23
united state

Re: I don't get it....

While I don't have the 300Mbit plan I do have the 150, and there is no way Concast is going to match the 70Mbit upload speed with there existing setup, they also wont be able to get the low pings that FiOS can achieve due to the overhead in docsis networks. Lastly, what good is 300Mbit on Concast when they purposely oversubscribe there backbone links to over half the internet causing 500ms+ pings during peak hours.


* Speedtest's flash program cant handle the upload speeds, its a known bug that they have fixed but the people running the test sites haven't bothered to upgrade yet.

djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

1 recommendation

Re: I don't get it....

said by flashcore:

While I don't have the 300Mbit plan I do have the 150, and there is no way Concast is going to match the 70Mbit upload speed with there existing setup, they also wont be able to get the low pings that FiOS can achieve due to the overhead in docsis networks. Lastly, what good is 300Mbit on Concast when they purposely oversubscribe there backbone links to over half the internet causing 500ms+ pings during peak hours.

Judging from the chart linked to this story

»FCC Report: ISPs Still Struggling to Deliver Advertised Speeds

Comcast is doing a remarkably good job of keeping their performance consistent during "peak" hours. Their line is almost as flat as Verizon's. Verizon over-delivers (I suspect largely due to the "fluff" you get when you order TV) which puts them higher.

I don't think anybody's going to argue that FTTH is the best tech out there. But it's not available to all of us, and it's a good thing that Comcast is at least trying to step up to the plate. Any competition is good competition.
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
I've never had congestion issues with Comcast. That being said, while having 50-100mbps is a great luxury, having over 100 is just pointless. Even the few homes that have networking that can take advantage of those sorts of speeds probably can't really use that much.
mister2d

join:2001-12-24
Baltimore, MD
said by flashcore:

While I don't have the 300Mbit plan I do have the 150, and there is no way Concast is going to match the 70Mbit upload speed with there existing setup, they also wont be able to get the low pings that FiOS can achieve due to the overhead in docsis networks. Lastly, what good is 300Mbit on Concast when they purposely oversubscribe there backbone links to over half the internet causing 500ms+ pings during peak hours.



* Speedtest's flash program cant handle the upload speeds, its a known bug that they have fixed but the people running the test sites haven't bothered to upgrade yet.

My Comcast pings are just fine! I do see a limitation for upload. The meter bangs up against the 12Mbps limit pretty hard when I do testing.

ShaperProbe is also consistently matching with Speedtest. Don't believe everything you read. Some markets are getting excellent service from Comcast.



somms

join:2003-07-28
Salt Lake City, UT

Re: I don't get it....



I have the opposite problem where speedtest site has a tough time registering proper pings from my fiber gateway...

mister2d

join:2001-12-24
Baltimore, MD

Re: I don't get it....

said by somms:



I have the opposite problem where speedtest site has a tough time registering proper pings from my fiber gateway...



Sarcasm noted.
chrisbmoore

join:2003-08-28
Elkins Park, PA
You definitely don't have a clue at the improvements comcast has made. My last speed test shows ping time of 5 ms 110 Mbps download 20 Mbps upload on the 105/15 tier. no such thing as 500-1000 ms ping times anymore, maybe once upon a time.
serge87

join:2009-11-29
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by Chris 313:

said by hello123454:

Comcast's 300 Mbps won't equal Verizon's 300 Mbps....

Both companies are going back and forth on numbers when in reality Verizon has much more leverage with how their network is setup....

Oh? You don't think each 300 the companies put out will match? Do you have FiOS with the 300 speed and can test it out and post some screenshots?

I get my full 155mbps at all hours and days of the week, no exceptions. Maybe at 3am you will see the full 305 from Comcast but comparing the latency times, FIOS is untouchable. Don't get me started on bandwidth caps...

jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

Re: I don't get it....

said by serge87:

Maybe at 3am you will see the full 305 from Comcast but comparing the latency times, FIOS is untouchable.

Or maybe Verizon is 5 ms slower....

(This is at 18:20 CDT on my Comcast residential D3 connection)


etaadmin

join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1
said by hello123454:

Comcast's 300 Mbps won't equal Verizon's 300 Mbps....

Both companies are going back and forth on numbers when in reality Verizon has much more leverage with how their network is setup....

Correct... Comcast's plan is 5 Mbps faster.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: I don't get it....

I kinda wish Verizon would just bump the provisioning on its tier to 306 Mbps...just to tick off Comcast. Two can play at the one-upmanship game.
etaadmin

join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1

Re: I don't get it....

said by iansltx:

I kinda wish Verizon would just bump the provisioning on its tier to 306 Mbps...just to tick off Comcast. Two can play at the one-upmanship game.

Just marketing tricks but hey it works for Comcast... if Verizon wanted to make sure no MSO could match their speeds they would offer high uploads like a 300/300 Mbps but they didn't why?

Besides in the near future in markets where Verizon can't offer anything respectable (all of non FiOS markets) they'll be offering the next best thing to fiber... cable's (Comcast, Cox, TWC, BrightHouse) DOCSIS3.x

PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
I don't see a point in bothering when Verizon FiOS consistently tends to deliver faster than advertised speeds.

PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
said by etaadmin:

said by hello123454:

Comcast's 300 Mbps won't equal Verizon's 300 Mbps....

Both companies are going back and forth on numbers when in reality Verizon has much more leverage with how their network is setup....

Correct... Comcast's plan is 5 Mbps faster.

Yes. A whole whopping 5 Mbps for $95 more per month. That's about as competitive as Intel's Pentium 4 Gigahertz war vs AMD if you ask me.
rebus9

join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Bright House
said by hello123454:

Comcast's 300 Mbps won't equal Verizon's 300 Mbps....

Why not?

Assume both sell 300/65 service. Assume both run at, or acceptably near, their advertised speeds. Other than fiber's latency advantage-- what's the difference to the end user?

PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

Re: I don't get it....

That depends completely and entirely on who the end-user is.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by rebus9:

said by hello123454:

Comcast's 300 Mbps won't equal Verizon's 300 Mbps....

Why not?

Assume both sell 300/65 service. Assume both run at, or acceptably near, their advertised speeds. Other than fiber's latency advantage-- what's the difference to the end user?



Fiber has a latency advantage?

Other than a small advantage during encoding/decoding, both mediums travel at the same speed.
rebus9

join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Bright House

Re: I don't get it....

said by DataRiker:

Fiber has a latency advantage?

Other than a small advantage during encoding/decoding, both mediums travel at the same speed.

Yes, FTTP has a latency advantage over HFC. It's not much, typically less than 10ms. The extra HFC latency is introduced at the headend and local plant during the media conversions that take place. But it exists and is measurable. Once beyond the local plant, both carriers use fiber for core, regional, and longhaul.

But clearly, I downplayed the significance of it in my previous post. I don't think there is a real-world difference to the end user as long as the provider actually delivers the full 300/65.....

.... except perhaps for extreme gamers where a few milliseconds can mean the difference between winning and losing.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: I don't get it....

I mentioned the encoding/decoding advantage, but its about ~1ms or 2ms.

Insignificant really.
rebus9

join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Bright House

Re: I don't get it....

I have both HFC and FIOS, and the difference is a solid 8-10ms.

This is quite easy to test. I have servers colocated in Tampa, in a facility who has 5 transit carriers-- one of them being Brighthouse. The colo is located in 400 N Tampa St, which is also where one of Brighthouse's downtown POPs is located. To make it even better, the BHN-owned router that terminates the fiber into this facility is (literally) 6 cabinets down the row from our cabinet. My pings across BHN Road Runner to these servers homed on BHN Enterprise Fiber, are 14-16ms.

I'm familiar with the fiber path between our part of the county into Hillsborough county. I can't tell you street by street, but I do know the general path, and which areas of the city it crosses before reaching downtown Tampa. It's reasonably direct, with some obvious twists and turns as would be any metro-regional path.

Next up is FIOS. We have offices connected via FIOS, which are even further away-- on the order of 20+ miles further. Ping times across FIOS, to these other hosts on FIOS, are in the 6-8ms range.

Now, let's forget hosts for a moment and talk routers. Ping times across a Brighthouse Road Runner connection to Brighthouse routers known to be in Tampa are on the order of 12-14ms. Ping times to Verizon routers known also to be in Tampa, are 4-6ms.

No matter how you approach it, across approximately the SAME physical path distance, the HFC network induces approximately 8-10ms of additional latency.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

4 edits

Re: I don't get it....

There is no possible way that 2 different ISP's used the same route and equipment to a remote location.

The extra latency over copper is due to the encoding used to mitigate line noise and such.

On Fast path DSL you wont lag more than about 1.5ms or so given an equal fiber run.
rebus9

join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Bright House

Re: I don't get it....

said by DataRiker:

There is no possible way that 2 different ISP's used the same route and equipment to a remote location.

You clearly didn't read the post. I never said they used the same routes.

What I DID say is the physical paths are of comparable distance.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

3 edits

Re: I don't get it....

To compare latency you would have to take the same route on comparable equipment.

The vast majority of the lag you see is certainly in either the Route or an overloaded or old piece of equipment (Router, CMTS, whatever...)
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
Those are insanely low. However, 10ms difference in latency is absolutely nothing, even to the more hardcore gamer.
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable

nice

Wish I could get even 25Mbps via my little cable co.
Going from 25 to 50 is very nice.
...only problem is that now a cap means you get even less TIME available to use your connection per day (at full speed). From another perspective, it could also save time by downloading larger files in less time.

Funny side-story. The installer for my cable said "you got the 10Mbps plan, why would you ever want more than that?" - to which I replied, "because I do.. and if you ever get it, let me know."
Silly small town cable company, with no website... In some respects, at least Comcast is fairly consistent with their company, and what they offer in most areas.

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Xfinity Platinum Internet comes with a bundle of services

»www.marketwatch.com/story/comcas···12-07-24

Xfinity Platinum Internet offers the most-advanced digital homes download speeds of up to 305 Mbps and upload speeds of up to 65 Mbps. These customers will also receive at no additional charge: Xfinity Signature Support (a $9.95/month value), providing customers 24/7 tech support from experienced and knowledgeable specialists; a wireless gateway to create a fast, efficient and secure home network; a dedicated Personal Communications Consultant to support their high-speed Internet needs; and the Constant Guard(TM) Security Suite, the most comprehensive online protection services available from any major ISP.

Sounds like the kind of service a business gets with a SLA. I'll bet the price for this is pretty high.
--
»www.mittromney.com/s/repeal-and-···bamacare
»www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care

tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5

Re: Xfinity Platinum Internet comes with a bundle of services

That's been my thought is that 305 is a showpiece, but won't be practical/affordable for many.
The bumps for lower tiers are actually going to draw more customers and be a higher revenue source overall.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
Wireless gateway is included on all tiers at or above Blast, for new customers anyway.

Constant Guard? Included with all of Comcast's plans. Yes, it's a free copy of Norton 360 for everyone on the connection, but you don't need to pay for that stuff anyway.

As for Signature Support, that isn't an SLA. It's just a somewhat-guarantee that you won't have to be transferred five times before speaking to someone competent on the phone (though of late I've had decent experiences with Comcast phone techs).

tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5

1 edit

Where's my double scoop?

Their BIG LIST of markets, shows how limited, this is, so far.
I want to know when those of us west of PA will be treated like citizens.
Send a few upgrades out west and quit playing such a verizon centric expandsion game.
Os

join:2011-01-26
US

Re: Where's my double scoop?

You won't be included. In anything.

That's why Comcast and Verizon are colluding, these are the only places left without monopolies.

These are the only places we're going to pretend to have a competitive marketplace.

anon6123

@mich.net

Upload

Wow, I'm really surprised they confirmed they are doing 65mbps on the upstream. They are really going to be pushing it close to offer that kind of speed given the small amount of spectrum that is available for upstream. (5-42mhz) If my math was correct isn't not unreasonable to estimate upstream for the entire node as ~125mbps (5 6mhz 64QAM channels) plus a few other legacy channels available for older modems. Perhaps they might also be testing out 256QAM or another solution for upstream in those markets....

Downstream shouldn't be an issue as they should have a ton of available channels from the digital transition.
johnnn

join:2007-01-25
Ypsilanti, MI

Re: Upload

Preach! Maybe they're deploying 256QAM upstream channels and/or S-CDMA? We'll never know here in MI...see »www.lightreading.com/document.as···lr_cable

thecybernerd
Premium
join:2007-01-05
Great Falls, VA

What modem will they use?

I am curious what modem they will use to deliver these speeds? I know the SB6121 only supports channel bonding up to 160 mbps down and 120 up. Does comcast plan to duck tape two of these bad boys together or is there a newer model?

Thanks!

••••••••
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

That upload channel...

I'm very surprised that Comcast is launching with the sameupload speeds as FiOS, considering that I haven't yet seen a cable system in the US that has more than three upstreams available to bond, one of which is at a lower modulation on a smaller channel width versus the others. The result: around 70 Mbps of upload capacity, for that entire branch of the cable system. As a result, it's almost undoubtedly more expensive for Comcast to serve up this tier than for Verizon (who, by the way, could up their speeds tomorrow to 400/100 and put Comcast back at square one), since they're dedicating eight donwstream channels (38 x 8 = 304) and nearly three upstream channels to one customer.

I'm curious about the upload speeds on the lower-end packages after the speed doubling. Will they hit 15 and 20 Mbps up, respectively (so basically taking over the old higher residential tiers) or will they be lower?

One thing's for sure: Comcast will have to have the most advanced cable plant in the U.S. in order to pull this tier off...compared to what's now old news on the FTTH front (GPON).

•••••

IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Just noticed upstream channel bonding

I came home from vacation and noticed that I had upstream channel bonding on my modem. This is in Springfield, MA (which is nowhere near FiOS turf but was one of the first Comcast markets upgraded to D3). Maybe the upgrades are just around the corner. The 30/5 tier is fine for my needs (Twitterbook, YouTube, light gaming, DSLR, Online Newspapers, E-Mail, online banking, and various other things) but I'll gladly take the 50/15 upgrade.
etaadmin

join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1

Re: Just noticed upstream channel bonding

said by IowaCowboy:

I came home from vacation and noticed that I had upstream channel bonding on my modem. This is in Springfield, MA (which is nowhere near FiOS turf but was one of the first Comcast markets upgraded to D3). Maybe the upgrades are just around the corner. The 30/5 tier is fine for my needs (Twitterbook, YouTube, light gaming, DSLR, Online Newspapers, E-Mail, online banking, and various other things) but I'll gladly take the 50/15 upgrade.

Yep, looks like some MSOs are getting ready to use upstream channel bonding. I know TWC is getting ready »upstream bonding in NYC

Probably Comcast is way ahead of other MSOs in this area.

wmcbrine
213 251 145 96

join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD
kudos:1

Blow through your monthly cap in just two hours!

...and 14 minutes.

•••••
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

Like the Price is Right Game Show

305Mbps -- just 5Mbps faster than FIOS. This is kind of like the Price Is Right Game Show where they try to get closest to an items price without going over. The last one to guess goes one penny higher than the highest bidder.

Why not offer 320Mbps or 350Mbps or, gasp, 400Mbps. Now that would be kicking the competitions butt.

buddahbless

join:2005-03-21
Premium

Re: Like the Price is Right Game Show

Offering it at 305 mbps is just for bragging rights over Verizon fios. Don't worry once rolled out Verizon will kick there plan up to 320 or so to take bragging rights back .

keithps
Premium
join:2002-06-26
Soddy Daisy, TN
Reviews:
·EPB Fiber Optics

Re: Like the Price is Right Game Show

Probably why they didn't bring it to Chattanooga and EPB's territory. Here we can get 1Gbps/1Gbps for about the same price as their 305/65. They've gone back to offering cheap promotional deals here.
--
RIP Dad (10-28-1955 to 4-10-2010)
digitalmatri

join:2007-01-22
Waterbury, CT

Availability

In central Connecticut I am seeing the increased speeds (after a modem restart - it took about a couple minutes to get the new firmware - Jul 24 2012 12:49:10 6-Notice E102.0 SW Download INIT - Via Config file d11_m_sb6120_widebandblast_c01.cm)
I pay for the 50/15 but I am seeing as much as 112/21 now
»www.speedtest.net/result/2081719308.png
brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

300GB Limit for 305 Mbps lol

They need to hire new mathematicians over there.

•••
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

collateral benefit

I'm at 50/8 on Optimum... free (no extra cost) 100/16 (or more on the upload) will do fine by me... 100mbit for $45 a month woot!

C'mon cablevision, respond!!

Psst! The devlis in the pricing.. if that 305mbit tier is $50 less than Fios... that might just be worth it.. BTW, if you read carefully, these new speed tiers drop this week according to the article! (before August)

SHoTTa35

@optonline.net

Re: collateral benefit

Me too, i have 50/8 (more like 60/8 ) and I'm dying to see what CV is gonna do with their tiers. Even if they don't go 300Mbps, 200/30Mbps for ULTRA and Boost+ goes to 100/15Mbps and i'll be even more of a happy camper
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

Re: collateral benefit

said by SHoTTa35 :

Me too, i have 50/8 (more like 60/8 ) and I'm dying to see what CV is gonna do with their tiers. Even if they don't go 300Mbps, 200/30Mbps for ULTRA and Boost+ goes to 100/15Mbps and i'll be even more of a happy camper

Some suggestions:

30/5 $29.95 100/16(30+ strongly encouraged) $44.90 250/65 $99
Of course, these are "NEW" one year customer rates, so +$15-$20 on each as standard rate.

250mbit for less than half the 300mbit tier would cut FIOS off at the knees.. in Ny Metro.. ultra fast speed for those on a budget!
Cablevision by nature is lazy about internet speed tier updates (10/1 bump to 15/2 took 10+ YEARS!!). I don't see it happening this year. Though, next week would be a good time to prove me wrong.

jblues

join:2001-04-28
Allen Park, MI

Nice!!

Glad to hear everyone is being doubled...I have Extreme 50...well soon to be Extreme 105!!!

FastDSL

join:1999-08-22
Snellville, GA

Re: Nice!!

So everyone currently on the 25 and 50 is getting the bump?? Not just the competitive NE blowfest??
neufuse

join:2006-12-06
James Creek, PA

the normal user

Wish they'd give the normal user a speed bump, 15/2 Mbit is nice, but 20/3 would be nicer for the average person
Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1

Re: the normal user

said by neufuse:

Wish they'd give the normal user a speed bump, 15/2 Mbit is nice, but 20/3 would be nicer for the average person

Without going back too far...

6/1 > 12/2 > 15/2 (or 15/3, depending on who you ask)

The low tiers tend to get the quickest upgrades.

buddahbless

join:2005-03-21
Premium
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T DSL Service
Not just the normal user, Id like to see them double up the business plans and leave the rate where they are or vice versa cut the business rates in half and leave the speeds where they are, as thats the only way A person (such as myself) can receive unlimited for my home business.
BobWadd

join:2005-12-15
Ocala, FL

No upgrade in central Florida

Not so lucky here in central Florida. I have the "Blast!" package and am only provisioned at 16/2. We don't even have DOCSIS 3 yet!!! I guess I won't be upgraded to 50.
Jerms

join:2011-02-11
Laurel, DE

This is stupid

How about expand your services to the people who CANT GET your service instead of catering more to the people who ALREADY have your service!!!

GeekInfoNow

join:2012-07-25

Business class hmm?

I wonder if they will be giving business class customers a speed upgrade also. South Fla also BTW

mig288
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Cherry Hill, NJ
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Comcast is late to the game

I had comcast for about 10 years. While my service was pretty consistent, they failed to be innovative (gimme more upload). When FIOS came to town, they lost a subscriber to that fact. Now, I'm enjoying the services of Verizon. I'm curious to see the upstream on their new tiers.


tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

Re: Comcast is late to the game

said by mig288:

I had comcast for about 10 years. While my service was pretty consistent, they failed to be innovative (gimme more upload). When FIOS came to town, they lost a subscriber to that fact. Now, I'm enjoying the services of Verizon. I'm curious to see the upstream on their new tiers.
[att=1] [att=2]

Don't worry, after your 1 or 2 year price lock/contract expires Verizon will be sure to jack up the prices again like they've done twice already this year. So, after 2 years expect 4 price increases. What you don't get is this has always been about a win-win for Verizon.. that's what price collusion is all about.. don't expect Comcast's prices and tiers to be innovative, and that pushed you to Verizon to pay $ more. I'm not saying it's a bad choice, but don't be fooled that you ever had a GOOD one..

I'll spare you the speech about how Verizon justifies the extra cost and why the prices are too high.. because iwhen you look at your bill, you'll know.. keep an eye on your bottom line price.. bill creep is a mysterious thing.

I'm hoping what you did (switch) will be good for me.. because when ONE cableco bumps speed tiers, that means others will follow.. sooner or later.. thanks!
jebbj19

join:2007-04-14
Woodstock, MD
Reviews:
·Comcast

Will Pay For Services

Without a doubt VZ will be raising prices across their FIOS bundles very SOON...and need I say that CMSK will do the same. My major comment is why is the service trying to differentiate itself from CABLE when everything used is all CABLE coaxial in the home. No fiber through the walls to every no special SET-TOP boxes however the smart tv features are useful. The telephone system works just like any other IP phone system needs a battery back-up and won't work long during power outages. The internet is just like cable same speeds on the d/l and VZ cap is coming as a premium tier for the bandwidth hogs. It depends on where you live how you are treated by customer service and of course PRICING!!! I'm still longing for great customer service that will respond accurately and promptly to prevent problems and solve them ASAP!