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Comments on news posted 2012-09-14 12:48:49: It appears that Comcast is tinkering with the idea of offering higher caps with higher tiers of service, and will again shake up their speed options sometime in the next year for the majority of users. ..

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34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to elray

Re: Even a 300GB cap is reasonable for internet video

said by elray:

So what you are saying is, a person who lives alone should pay the same price as a family of four?

If they're both on the same speed tier.. yes. That's only logical. Last time I checked when I go and buy items anywhere they don't ask me if I'm single or have a family and charge me more if I have a family.


The Limit
Premium
join:2007-09-25
Greensboro, NC
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Nightfall

Re: Reasonable

If only 1%, then why the caps? That sure is a small amount, shouldn't affect a mammoth like Comcast.


RR206

join:2001-12-11
united state

1 recommendation

reply to 88615298

Re: Not a peep.

said by 88615298:

said by RR206:

And I've done 2+TB in a month,1TB regularly on 50Mb.

And YOU'RE the reason for these caps in the first place. 2 TBs is simply redicuous. I know, you're only seeding Linux distros.

Who still uses BitTorrent? And am I suposed to apologize? Get real.

I'm going to take as much as I can, for as long as I can, for as little as I can. I'm not in a one game town, so I doubt I'll ever hear anything.

Mulling 105Mb tier to see if I can hit 4 TB. Thanks for your concern though.


mikeschr

@comcast.net
reply to JigglyWiggly

Re: datttt

Then fewer people will read and accept the points you're making. In that case, what's the point of posting at all?


Streetlight

join:2005-11-07
Colorado Springs, CO
reply to 88615298

Re: Been saying this for years now...

said by 88615298:

said by IPPlanMan:

If this is indeed true, then I've been right about what I've said for years: Faster speeds results in higher levels of usage.

Sorry but Netflix HD streams stream at 5 Mbps whether you on a 15 Mbps connection to 300 Mbps conenction.

You're right that for some situations like a single Netflix stream of an HD video at 5 Mb/s regardless of a speed tier fast enough to support it. The problem for many is that a single stream is not always the case. For many, mom and dad may be looking at a Netflix HD streaming video, one of the teenage children may be listening to Rdio at 250 Kb/s while doing homework using a computer, another teen watching another HD movie stream while surfing the net on an iPad, all the while the computers in the house backing up their hard drives to Dropbox. Additional users in the household use even more Mb/s. If this kind of activity goes on every day, the household's data use can easily saturate a 15 Mb/s pipe and fill a 300 GB bucket in a lot fewer than 30 days.

Internet for Comcast is a cash cow. It's been reported that the cost of bits is pennies per giga byte. It's not clear to me what the cost per subscriber is for infrastructure, but I doubt it's more than $10 per month. The price we pay for bits is awfully high.

On the other hand, for cable TV it seems the cost of programming is controlled by the content producers. Ala carte TV might be nice. For example since a small minority of folks would choose the Disney/ESPN/ABC giant, the subscription cost of it might become unsustainable considering those who now subsidize it would be gone. Disney would have to change their business model and professional athletes and their masters might have to take a major income drop. The same with all those niche channels no one watches. They'd have to go away. Subscription fees could drop precipitously and maybe sanity would come to the cost of cable entertainment.
--
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.

Sherlock Holmes in
The Boscombe Valley Mystery
A. C. Doyle
Strand Magazine, October 1891

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

1 recommendation

reply to 88615298

Re: Not a peep.

said by 88615298:

2 TBs is simply redicuous.

If he had say an 8Mbps connection then I'd agree but at 50Mbps that's not even close to being true. They shouldn't be selling the speed tiers if they cannot provision the network to handle it. But it's pretty obvious they want to market speeds their network cannot actually handle if it was rolled out en masse.


PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
reply to whfsdude

Re: Reasonable

said by whfsdude:

With that said, Verizon is still finishing many neighborhoods and will have a complete rollout in the next year for all of DC proper.

Believe it when I see it.


PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
reply to whfsdude
said by whfsdude:

said by tshirt:

You really think 50% ACTUALLY use more than 500GB?

I don't think 50% actually use more than 500GB, but when you start talking about charged overages, people don't want to worry about it even if they don't use that much.

how did they survive the 250GB cap?

Was never enforced in DC.

I'll take it a step further. Some HD Netflix streaming (which Netflix defaults to when in Fullscreen Mode at 1366x768 and above), whether it be on PC, and Xbox 360 or other console, or Roku box will use Gigs upon Gigs of data before anything else is accounted for.

As for how they survived the 250GB cap, it was a soft cap that was rarely, if ever, enforced. I know I broke it on roughly a monthly basis. You should see my data transfer logs from my pfSense box.


PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall:

said by whfsdude:

said by tshirt:

You really think 50% ACTUALLY use more than 500GB?

I don't think 50% actually use more than 500GB, but when you start talking about charged overages, people don't want to worry about it even if they don't use that much.

how did they survive the 250GB cap?

Was never enforced in DC.

I really think you need to come back to reality. The simple fact of the matter is that less than 1% of residential customers use over 250gb of bandwidth in a month.

I'd like to see nominal proof of that 1% declarator - especially in light of more and more people using online video such as HBO GO, Netflix, and even YouTube (where more and more videos are going HD).

LocutusBorg
Premium
join:2005-12-25
Revere, MA

excellent

hoping this is how it works out. i need at least a terra for a cap


jduffy
Premium
join:2006-08-20
Cincinnati, OH

I'd leave

Any provider implementing a cap would force me to leave their service.
--
Atheists swear there is no Heaven, but pray there isn't a Hell.


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to The Limit

Re: Reasonable

It would depend how far over that 1% went, suppose that 1% all had 105-305 accounts a thus staturated the channels in their areas causing ComCast to do 100-1000's of physical node splits, with costs far exceeding what they'll recieve during the 2-3 year contracts of that 1%.
There are a number of scenrios that would make network management difficult, or cause comcast to spend more on those customers than they return in overage fees, but the hope is the costs will average out AND the cost will make it undesireable for any users to regularly use comcast HSI as an UNLIMITED service.

see it doesn't matter where the actual breakeven point is, it is a private network, they are current selecting an included bandwidth level for each tier that
1}they believe the network can support
2}that they believe covers typical useage of their customers
3}that charge people who exceed that level a small portion of the cost of additional expansion
4}that serves the majority of their customers at a reasonable price point
5}That allows them to continue as a sucessful for profit business

all out in the open, no need to read the fine print
service level x includes XXXGB, if you need more it's $10 for each 50gb more.

if you don't like it you are free to find something else that fits your needs.


ChuckcZar

@teksavvy.com

At least it's a step in the right direction

If their network can handle a cap increase great. Up in Canada Rogers increased their caps from an absurd level to just a ridiculous level and their whole infrastructure fell apart affecting both cable internet and digital television. They still throttle 24/7 but maybe someone should state check and see if the network or infrastructure can handle an extra load first.


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to PapaMidnight

Re: Reasonable

said by PapaMidnight:

I'd like to see nominal proof of that 1% declarator - especially in light of more and more people using online video such as HBO GO, Netflix, and even YouTube (where more and more videos are going HD).

so you are now paying all those for content directly to avoid the CATV middleman? but you still need to pay for transport, and you have choosen a far more costly method.
rather than 1 cable channel(which may use less than a full physical channel) sending the show to millions at once, you now want millions to have that show custom transmitted just to them.

It is the differnce between a truckload of toilet paper being delivered from the factory to a nearby store, or the factory sending out rolls to each house by cab on demand.

Not only is the cab method expensive, at certain points the road capacity is not large enough for all the cabs needed at once (say on half-price spicy burrito night/a very popular show) and so some delieverys will not be on time so someone has to pay to widen the road/build more cabs, and as always that cost eventually gets paid by the consumer.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to RR206

Re: Not a peep.

Guessing you are on a "sleepy node", Back when they had the cap one thing I noticed about cap enforcement is if the node did not have many homes and/or never got TCs or Tickets for slow internet speeds than they would not always even bother to watch it. Where as someone in Center City Philly would be more likely to get the nastygram for going over because the node is likely running at 100% just by number of customers.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
reply to PapaMidnight

Re: Reasonable

said by PapaMidnight:

I'd like to see nominal proof of that 1% declarator - especially in light of more and more people using online video such as HBO GO, Netflix, and even YouTube (where more and more videos are going HD).

The best thing I can tell you is that the 1% is quite true. I have done consulting work for a couple different ISPs in the past. The usage statistics are quite disparate. A vast majority of people who have broadband are using far less than 100gb. Then you have some who range between 100-200gb. Then you have less than 1% who stress out their connections constantly. Could be torrents or just that they have a lot of usage needs. The number is actually closer to half a percent, but it happens. These are just for residential lines.

I think you would see more complaints from common consumers if there were huge problems with the cap. Things that you mention, HBO Go, Netflix, Crackle, and You Tube really don't eat up that much. My parents use Netflix all the time, and last bandwidth check was at 150gb on a peak month. Most months are at around 100gb.

I would love to see current usage statistics as well though.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to jduffy

Re: I'd leave

said by jduffy:

Any provider implementing a cap would force me to leave their service.

Yes because you have so many choices. Hate to break it to you by 99% will not come near a 500 GB cap.

tanzam75

join:2012-07-19

1 edit
reply to Jerm

Re: Problem MATH

said by Jerm:

At overage rates $10GBx300 = $3000!

If you want to pay $3000 a month, you can pay for a dedicated line. The costs to run the line will either be paid by you up-front, or amortized over a contract period. Nobody will care if you push multiple terabytes through in each month, as you have paid the full costs of the line and are not impacting other customers.

tanzam75

join:2012-07-19
reply to tmc8080
said by tmc8080:

Nevertheless, if you're on a plan that pays more than $100 a month for internet there should be NO, ZERO, ZILCH, ZIPPO caps..that would obviously be business class afforability wise, if not in QOS.. and 100 - 150 megabit tier-- currently AFAIK, the 50 megabit tier with Comcast is close to the $100 mark.. which is as I suspected, price collusion with Verizon.. and utter GREED!

Unrealistic.

Metro Ethernet runs in the $1000 per month range. Nobody cares if you max out the line for every second of every day for the full month, because you've paid for that dedicated capacity.

Clearly, then, $100 per month business-class service depends on some degree of statistical multiplexing. You simply cannot max out the line without impacting other customers on the same node.

tanzam75

join:2012-07-19

1 recommendation

reply to PapaMidnight

Re: Reasonable

said by PapaMidnight:

I'd like to see nominal proof of that 1% declarator - especially in light of more and more people using online video such as HBO GO, Netflix, and even YouTube (where more and more videos are going HD).

It's actually well under 1% that uses more than 250 GB in a month. And of course, 500 GB would be even less than that.

As shown in the latest Measuring Broadband America report from the FCC, the 50th percentile for monthly traffic on a cable connection is around 30 GB. The 99th percentile is around 120 GB.

This was in April 2012. There may have been some growth since then, but probably not enough to double all the numbers.

»www.fcc.gov/measuring-broadband- ··· #Chart19

This data was measured by putting a data-collection box right after the modem. Therefore, it should be fairly accurate.

tanzam75

join:2012-07-19
reply to 34764170

Re: Not a peep.

Consider that a 10 Mbps Metro Ethernet connection costs in the $600-800 range. That's what it costs to provide a dedicated connection that you can max out for every second of every day.

Consumer Internet pricing depends on overprovisioning. If everyone maxed out their connection, then we'd all be paying dedicated pricing.

Consider that the average customer uses about 50 GB per month on cable. At 500 houses per node, with an 80% take rate, that's about 20 TB of usage per node. In other words, the commenter who was using 2 TB was accounting for 10% of the entire node's monthly Internet traffic!

The cable company cannot afford to sell you consumer Internet if you use it like a dedicated connection. Caps at least provide truth-in-advertising, which "unlimited" did not.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
said by tanzam75:

Consider that a 10 Mbps Metro Ethernet connection costs in the $600-800 range. That's what it costs to provide a dedicated connection that you can max out for every second of every day.

Consumer Internet pricing depends on overprovisioning. If everyone maxed out their connection, then we'd all be paying dedicated pricing.

Consider that the average customer uses about 50 GB per month on cable. At 500 houses per node, with an 80% take rate, that's about 20 TB of usage per node. In other words, the commenter who was using 2 TB was accounting for 10% of the entire node's monthly Internet traffic!

The cable company cannot afford to sell you consumer Internet if you use it like a dedicated connection. Caps at least provide truth-in-advertising, which "unlimited" did not.

Then the cable co's should stop selling services they cannot handle. Caps are lies in advertising.


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
reply to tanzam75

Re: Reasonable

said by tanzam75:

said by PapaMidnight:

I'd like to see nominal proof of that 1% declarator - especially in light of more and more people using online video such as HBO GO, Netflix, and even YouTube (where more and more videos are going HD).

It's actually well under 1% that uses more than 250 GB in a month. And of course, 500 GB would be even less than that.

As shown in the latest Measuring Broadband America report from the FCC, the 50th percentile for monthly traffic on a cable connection is around 30 GB. The 99th percentile is around 120 GB.

This was in April 2012. There may have been some growth since then, but probably not enough to double all the numbers.

»www.fcc.gov/measuring-broadband- ··· #Chart19

This data was measured by putting a data-collection box right after the modem. Therefore, it should be fairly accurate.

Great find!
--
My domain - Nightfall.net

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to 88615298

Re: Not a peep.

said by 88615298:

And YOU'RE the reason for these caps in the first place.

No, it's to discourage people from actually using their Internet connection.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to tanzam75
said by tanzam75:

Consider that the average customer uses about 50 GB per month on cable. At 500 houses per node, with an 80% take rate, that's about 20 TB of usage per node. In other words, the commenter who was using 2 TB was accounting for 10% of the entire node's monthly Internet traffic!

I can use 2, 3, 4, 5TB a month during hours other than the peak hours and have ZERO impact on their network at peak hours. Peak hours is what matters.

InStitches49

join:2012-08-24
Hendersonville, TN

Just Wish I'd Known!

I'm in the area where the 300 cap is being used now and just signed up for Comcast a little over a week ago. No one ever told me beforehand that there was a 300 cap. Now we're within it by a good amount right now, but the fact that this wasn't disclosed is what frustrates me. We had been with AT&T Bellsouth and the speed was terrible! Our daughter is taking an online college class and was constantly being kicked offline, so we thought this would be a better solution. However, if the price increases dramatically we'll have to go back with AT&T DSL (hope not until at least she finishes this course). Little did I know or even know enough to ask


PeteC2
Got Mouse?
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT
kudos:6
Why? AT&T DSL has a 150gb cap per month (were you not aware of this?), so moving to a service with a 300gb per month cap should have absolutely no effect on you.

At any rate, if the 300gb cap concerns you, why would you return to a service with a cap half that size?
--
Deeds, not words

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to The Limit

Re: Reasonable

said by The Limit:

If only 1%, then why the caps? That sure is a small amount, shouldn't affect a mammoth like Comcast.

Don't expect the peebs around here to understand that. They've drank too much kool aid and just keep repeating the same party line nonsense.


PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall:

said by tanzam75:

said by PapaMidnight:

I'd like to see nominal proof of that 1% declarator - especially in light of more and more people using online video such as HBO GO, Netflix, and even YouTube (where more and more videos are going HD).

It's actually well under 1% that uses more than 250 GB in a month. And of course, 500 GB would be even less than that.

As shown in the latest Measuring Broadband America report from the FCC, the 50th percentile for monthly traffic on a cable connection is around 30 GB. The 99th percentile is around 120 GB.

This was in April 2012. There may have been some growth since then, but probably not enough to double all the numbers.

»www.fcc.gov/measuring-broadband- ··· #Chart19

This data was measured by putting a data-collection box right after the modem. Therefore, it should be fairly accurate.

Great find!

Indeed, it is an excellent find.

InStitches49

join:2012-08-24
Hendersonville, TN
reply to PeteC2

Re: Just Wish I'd Known!

AT&T/Bellsouth had a cap?! Guess what? No one at that service ever let me know so I can only guess that between myself and our daughter (DH doesn't use the internet) we never got to that 150 gb cap (knowing how we're "running" now on Comcast makes me say that in all honesty). We were on a bundle with internet and home phone and were at the highest level DSL we could go in our neighborhood. UVerse wasn't offered so we had no other course than to try Comcast. Those are the only two internet services offered here. Interesting to find that out since the bill never stated anything about a cap. Nice to be in the "dark" .... not!