dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2012-09-24 14:23:48: Unsatisfied with their $1 billion legal patent victory over Samsung, Apple is now asking the courts for another $707 million in additional damages. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1

11 recommendations

Dear Apple.....

Grow the fuck up....
Expand your moderator at work

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

Samsung makes like 30% of all the parts in the iphone.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Dear Apple.....

and that is what pisses Apple off. They put their eggs in one basket and decided to sue their partner that they depend on. Especially since Samsung owns the new display Apple uses, and owns 12% of the LTE chip that Apple uses. Apple is in no place to be demanding more money. Samsung should just stop producing the displays.

gigahurtz
Premium
join:2001-10-20
Palm Coast, FL
Reviews:
·Bright House

Re: Dear Apple.....

Except that Samsung makes a ton of money by producing those components, so for them to stop producing them for Apple would mean a HUGE loss for them. It goes both ways. Both of these companies need eachother.

I love Apple products but I must say this is getting to be a bit much. I'd love to see both companies shut up and start innovating again instead of just suing the competition.

dogmaster

@rr.com

Re: Dear Apple.....

How much is Samsung's contract making Apple parts? If Samsung loss Apple's contract I don't think it's going to hurt Samsung at all. Isn't true that Samsung subsidiaries companies generate more income than Samsung Electronic?

Samsung Heavy Industries signed $50 billion dollars contract with Royal Dutch Shell for the next 15 years. Samsung has 6.6 billion dollar deal to build Salar energy. Samsung has 18 billion dollars contract to build buclear power plants for UAE.

Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
No, just a fanboy of having my own consumer options without another company telling me what I can and can't buy. I could give less of a crap about Samsung, but Apple can go die in a fire. Their actions leave consequences that I pay for in a crappier smartphone marketplace.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
I think Apple never will follow that advice. Honestly while they come off as superior, based on their current and very public legal actions I get the feeling that internally they are honestly very terrified of Android and mainly targeted Samsung because as of current they are the big fish of the Android OEM pond.

But also if they attacked Google directly it would be a fairly equal fight. Big CA tech firm vs big CA tech firm in CA courts. By going at Samsung their lawyers can play the juries in future trials in that its "A good home grown company fighting for its life against a Korean conglomerate."
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1

Re: Dear Apple.....

Well, Google is going after them now.

Fighting for it's life...they will be once Google gets done with them
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

Re: Dear Apple.....

Do you really think Google is more of a fair fight than Samsung? Apple reportedly has a $100B cash hoard and growing. If the FTC let them, they could buy Google and then sell the search business to Microsoft for half price and kill Android.

Of course the FTC/DOJ would never allow this but I wouldn't want to be in a pissing contest with Apple. People are rabid for their incredibly average, of late, and still extremely high margin products. At one time the iPhone was the cats meow but smart phones have matured and without Jobs, I'm second guessing whether or not the iOS revolution is over and will now continue at the current seemingly evolutionary pace. If Apple doesn't get it's Jobs Mojo back, iOS will end up stagnating like Windows between 2001 and 2012. Sure, it evolved and 7 is certainly a lot better than XP but lots still think XP works fine for them. You'll notice that already Apple following Microsoft by only offering cool new things on the latest products. This sure sounds a lot like Microsoft whose browser once dominated the market but is now tied with Chrome because they kept requiring you to upgrade Windows to get the latest versions. Lots of folks are still on XP and cannot get IE9. Compared to Chrome, IE8 is a pile -- slow and becoming more incompatible with major sites. Folks on XP have no choice but to go with Chrome, Firefox or Safari. Is this Apple's future? (I remember Apple's 3GS battery icon having a new percentage indicator that was not offered on the my older 3G. Who believes Siri wouldn't work on the iPhone 4?)
tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2

Re: Dear Apple.....

It does not matter how much money you have in the bank after a certain point. You can only spend so much on attorneys. To some extent, the law takes over at a certain point. Say Apple could buy a company means nothing... even if you set aside the fact it would not happen.

I recall the Friday I heard Samsung lost. My heart sank like I was paying the bill. But then I read more about the issue. Samsung knew they were stealing things from Apple. Even Google told them this. They choose to release those phones anyway in order to gain ground on Apple. But in the long run, it will only stun Samsung. They will simply make the money back.

Apple is living in the past. They know full well that the iPhone is dated and won't be around much longer. I'm sure right now they are working on something to replace it.

Samsung is asking for another trial. They won't get it. It's just a ploy. They will await the award and then appeal. They will then make some deal with Apple to pay them something like $500 million. We won't know what the amount is as they won't be allowed to say.
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

Re: Dear Apple.....

So when you say there's only so much money you can spend on lawyers...do you really believe the law cannot be purchased? Perhaps not outright but as they say, money talks and bullshit walks. Never underestimate what money can make happen and with total disregard for what's right and wrong. It's happened in all of documented history and we have not evolved a Higgs Boson empathy gene that leads me to believe otherwise. Power can corrupt even the most pure of heart and well intentioned individuals. Didn't you know...everyone in prison is innocent. They are all just victims of circumstances.

If they truly want it, Samsung will get a new trial and with enough "grease" (see above), they'll get it. (And it's not like Samsung is poor.) The outcome may be the same but for now, this isn't over.
tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2

Re: Dear Apple.....

What I'm saying is that there is only so much you can pay for that will be allowed in court. This is one reason the judge limited the time frame (because the judge knew both parties could afford to spend a ton of money on things such as expert witnesses... but at the end of the day it would simply turn into a lot of fluff). You can't "buy" a verdict but you can certain tilt the wheels of justice in your favor with money. But when both sides have enough money to buy everything they can get... it's even. After that, your billions in the bank mean nothing.

Samsung won't get a new trial just by asking. They might get one on appeal. But you'd be surprised how much money an appeal would cost and then another trial.

There is also no guarantees of an appeal. So Samsung will most likely start the process and use it as leverage (before it gets denied) to work out a deal with Apple. Samsung would be smart to pay more to Apple in order to keep their products on the market. Of course, they could draw this all out until those products are about worthless.

Samsung got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. It's too bad. I don't like it.
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

Re: Dear Apple.....

But when both sides have enough money to buy everything they can get... it's even. After that, your billions in the bank mean nothing.
That depends entirely on whether or not one of them blinks first. If Samsung has connections where this stuff is made, they could buy a little worker discontent that jeopardizes Apple's supply chain. Likewise, totally unrelated efforts by Samsung to grow business in the US (appliances for example), could be derailed by the right Apple money finding its way into those that hold the approval strings.

This has nothing to do with the trial. Just good ole vengeance. Although Steve is dead, he's been widely quoted as willing to spend every penny to bury Android.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
If they went after a smaller company then the logic might hold some water. But going after a huge international company isn't going to get you all that much extra. They are going to counter sue both domestically and internationally and have huge resources to put up a competent defense. Even if you win, you're going to lose to some degree.

Plus, if indeed they are terrified of Android, going after Samsung did not resolve any of those issues. Apple's case against Samsung case was almost entirely about design patents or utility patents that were basically about look and feel of the software. It all pertained to only Samsumg (and Google warned Samsung about some of it). Essentially nothing in the case will spill over into Apple v. Google or any other Android phone manufacturer. The only thing that would spill over is any award money and that's going to be tied up in courts for a long time.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

2 recommendations


Samsung 2006
said by Cheese:

Grow the fuck up....

Samsung copied no one.
PDAs with touch screens with phone call capabilities came out a long time ago.
The abbreviation "apps" was used since the early 90s on the internet.
The iphone looks just like the samsung picture frame released in 2006.

They definitely need a new trial. The jurors even admitted after the fact they ignored all prior art and just awarded apple the win.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

Re: Dear Apple.....

said by Oh_No:

Samsung copied no one.
PDAs with touch screens with phone call capabilities came out a long time ago.
The abbreviation "apps" was used since the early 90s on the internet.
The iphone looks just like the samsung picture frame released in 2006.

Thanks for clearing up that you have absolutely no idea what a lawsuit about design and utility patents are about in general, let alone the specifics of this case.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

Re: Dear Apple.....

said by cdru:

said by Oh_No:

Samsung copied no one.
PDAs with touch screens with phone call capabilities came out a long time ago.
The abbreviation "apps" was used since the early 90s on the internet.
The iphone looks just like the samsung picture frame released in 2006.

Thanks for clearing up that you have absolutely no idea what a lawsuit about design and utility patents are about in general, let alone the specifics of this case.

Well I know more than you obviously.
Apple used prior art in their iphone and ipad. They invented nothing.
The jurors in the lawsuit said they ignored all prior art.

Samsung did not copy apple. The trend for smart phones started way before the iphone and ipad.

Bluegrassman

join:2008-05-29
Paducah, KY
said by Cheese:

Grow the fuck up....

This ^^^^
Expand your moderator at work

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

2 recommendations

Hope a New Trial is Granted

Given how the jury openly admitted that they refused to consider prior art with regards to invalidating some of Apple's patents, and given the blatant refusal of the trial judge to allow for Samsung to present evidence to defend itself, I sincerely hope the original trial verdict is tossed.
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: Hope a New Trial is Granted

A new trial in a new venue outside of California.
MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

Re: Hope a New Trial is Granted

said by Kearnstd:

A new trial in a new venue outside of California.

For Samsung's sake it better not be in East Texas.

I like Apple's designs - they are elegant and have a great feel to them generally. But Apple has to get real - my Grade 8 shop teacher taught me to ease the edges of wood blocks. Maybe Apple should sue him too for conspiracy to round corners.

What's next for Apple - suing for having shiny or brushed or matte surfaces?
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: Hope a New Trial is Granted

as well as making sure none of the Jury owns stock in either firm as well as making sure the judge has never had ties to either company or family employed by either firm.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

HogansZeroes

@bahnhof.se
said by pnh102:

Given how the jury openly admitted that they refused to consider prior art with regards to invalidating some of Apple's patents, and given the blatant refusal of the trial judge to allow for Samsung to present evidence to defend itself, I sincerely hope the original trial verdict is tossed.

Vel Hogan, jury foreman of Apple vs Samsung made it perfectly clear in a Bloomberg interview that he has a clear and fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes prior art. Hogan either ignored the judge's instruction or he willfully chose to not accept the definition of "prior art" because it could invalidate his own patents outside of this trial.

-Bloomberg Interview

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9cnQcTC2JY
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

Re: Hope a New Trial is Granted

It boils down to a jury of peers, which of course unless these people have actually worked w/ IP and understand how the system is not logical, then they have no way of deciding adequately. It's not their fault, we have moved to "soft" patents which is I came up with an idea, let's patent instead of demonstrating a prototype and limiting it's "prior" art to that application. That is why any soft patent seems ridiculous, because it is. You can apply them to a swath of products now and in the future.

Wait until we get into the network DVR wars. That's next.

We are getting to the point where technology is outpacing 95% or human understanding, so filling the jury with the 95% ers is going to get you some really uninformed decisions.

Also damages here are no treble so even if they awarded it should be for actual damages, not theoretical ones. That would require someone to know exactly the economic loss, and that is not easy--certainly not in a few days.

Just listening to this guy makes my head spin.

In any case I read the patents, and I can't believe they were even issued, so even if they were you can still call them stupid, and invalidate them.

Before I went into tech I was seriously considering to become an IP lawyer. Man did I mess up
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Re: Hope a New Trial is Granted

I think to claim harm a company should have to bring attention to the harm with in one year of the product existing. After that one year the complaints are automatically voided and the product considered protected by prior art.

My reasoning for this? it would help prevent the issue where something exists for a long time and then someone files a patent lawsuit when the product starts making train loads of money. Because to me when someone holds off that long it reflects more of their awaiting to sue so they can score a big payday.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL
Wow, Vel Hogan is a moron.
He talks about the 460 patent and then says it is valid because apples software would not run on the same processors as the prior art.
This is the 460 patent "A method of operating a portable composite communication terminal the functions as both a portable phone and a camera."
My nokia did this back in 2002 and I would imagine phones before then even did that.
So basically he says samsung violated the patent because samsung's software is compiled to work on the same 3rd party processor.

That is the juror for hell. He had his "ah, ha" moment, lol. What a tool. I would have hated to have to deal with that moron.
Those type of people who think they know about technology, but they actually know nothing are dangerous.

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

Re: Hope a New Trial is Granted

said by Oh_No:

This is the 460 patent "A method of operating a portable composite communication terminal the functions as both a portable phone and a camera."

Wow.. Really Apple?

Let's see.. My PPC6800 is both a portable phone and a camera. It runs Windows Mobile 6.1. It still works.

My HTC Touch Pro is both a portable phone and a camera. It runs the last EnergyROM, which is based on Windows Mobile 6.5.5. Yes, it still works too.

Let's see.. I know I have at least a handful of devices that pre-date this so called "patent". Would you like me to send you pictures, Apple?
--
Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.3G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo]

Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1

1 recommendation

I'll donate a couple of bucks.

I'll send Samsung a few bucks, just for the hell of it.

The way Apple has been acting, has helping me decide to never buy another apple product ever again.

What damages has Apple suffered? Their Fing stock is over 600 bucks a share.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

Re: I'll donate a couple of bucks.

said by Snakeoil:

I'll send Samsung a few bucks, just for the hell of it.

The way Apple has been acting, has helping me decide to never buy another apple product ever again.

What damages has Apple suffered? Their Fing stock is over 600 bucks a share.

That means nothing unless apple designs to sell more stock otherwise the stock price only benefits those that own apple stock and are willing to sell.
Os

join:2011-01-26
US

Apple Is Seething with Jealousy

The Galaxy S3 is a superior product to the latest iTrash.

If you can't beat them, sue them out of existence.

••••••••••

IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7

Insubordination

we all know how all of this started now dont we ?
look back well before these lawsuits started.
when two companies with deep pockets cant come to a personal civil agreement between themselves, then its time to throw money at the courts and lawyers and play "My Cousin Vinny".
--
Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com
PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata

jay608
Going Nucking Futs

join:2007-01-22
Chicago, IL

My $.02

First off anyone that owned a Samsung or Apple product on the jury should have not been on it. Second, a judge should be smart enough to see thru the line of bullshit, and dismiss it. (this would go the same way if it were visa versa)

As for "a rational and fair effort to address Samsung's willful misconduct that has and will impose lasting harm on Apple."

I want some of the stuff they are smoking cause it seems pretty damn good..

•••

Swordfish II
Watching A Dream
Premium
join:2002-05-12
Cloud 9

1 edit

Samsung will get it all back

Sammy will get all the money back after suing Apple for LTE patent infringement.

Apple really shot themselves in the foot....
--
I'm not going there to die. I'm going there to see if i really am alive.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Samsung will get it all back

don't forget that Sammy also owns the rights to the new renta display as well

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
And Apple will get it from Broadcom who is licensed by Samsung to make the chipset.

WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5

Rational and Fair ? ? ?

Apple wants "a rational and fair effort" [to enforce] "a monopoly over rectangles with rounded corners" says Samsung.

**HOW** did the USPTO find "rectangles with rounded corners" unique and innovative?

•••••

Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

Anyone one remember..

Apple said they really wanted it to be $2 billion so I think this is a way they can inch as close as they can to that mark.

judge Koh is an idiot from what I heard she will be looking over the stuff in December..

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

800lb gorilla trying to exert dominance over 400lb gorilla

Apple, the 800 lb gorilla in the smartphone jungle, is just trying to exert its dominance over a 400 lb gorilla(Samsung). And they do that so that a group of 400 lb gorillas(Android oems) remain cowed and don't band together to beat the crap out of Apple.
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/

Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state

Re: 800lb gorilla trying to exert dominance over 400lb gorilla

The other gorillas are 200 lbs..

MikeH

@fuhsd.org

If samsung should be allowed to skate

Then all the money apple has paid for patents and lost in patent suits brought by other patent holders against it should be returned. Apple has paid hundreds of millions for patent use and in lost patent proceedings against it.

Its a two way street with these things. Samsung needs to shut up and cut a check. They lost 22 billion in market valuation making the verdict look like peanuts. The longer this thing goes the more money there stock holders loose. Eventually stock holders rise up and run management out on a rail.

Plus some of that suit is for trade dress and you only have to prove that the similarity would confuse the "average man" not tech savvy individual which apple proved during trial handily.
en103

join:2011-05-02
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

Apple of late reminds me of Microsoft of the 90's

Microsoft in the 90's went an sued anyone out of existence (Netscape ring a bell) for a competing product. Even if they lost, the competitor was left too broke to compete.

The difference here - is that both Apple and Samsung have a large war chest. These fights could last a long time.

Personally, I think Apple has peaked, and its innovative days are behind it. Don't get me wrong, Apple still delivers great products, but in a post Steve Jobs era, they appear to be less innovative, and more reliant on patents/lawsuits.

Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

Re: Apple of late reminds me of Microsoft of the 90's

said by en103:

they appear to be less innovative, and more reliant on patents/lawsuits.

Kinda like how Kodak did the past 4 years.. they started suing so much and they just gave up.
dgeneral

join:2004-06-02
Granville, IL

1 recommendation

seriously apple?

and in other news, Apple sues Apple over the fact that the Iphone 5 is shockingly similar to the iphone 4s, just a nother row of crappy apps you'll never use.

Anzio

join:2008-11-22
Innisfil, ON

Stop kicking the dead horse Apple

Samsung is already on the ground from your iPhone sales. knock it off.

Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1

It's getting diffcult

They're getting hard to like with their patent holy war as of late.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

Re: It's getting diffcult

Apple haters don't need an excuse to hate Apple. If it wasn't the "patent war" they would just claim something else. Just like Ford vs Chevy, PS vs XBOX, Mac vs PC, Dem vs Rep, F1 vs NASCAR...everyone has their religion and gets butthurt whenever it gets accosted and they are compelled to evangelize and convert everyone they see to their religion.

Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2

Re: It's getting diffcult

I was considering a MacBook for awhile. Now I will buy nothing Apple and they can shove that MacBook. I will buy another Toshiba and install nix like on my current one, thank you very much. I can't be the only consumer that feels this way over the patent holy war. As to the iphone, I always hated it. I don't like that many Samsung models either(though the S3 looks sweet). I love Samsung for monitors and displays and loved Apple for desktop software and laptop hardware. However, they are not superior enough to not be boycotted for attempting to stifle innovation. Btw, even my phone has revealed in its kernel to have some Samsung parts. Watch out Apple! Samsung is everywhere!!! Btw, I love Android. I just have preferences to Samsung.
--
A fool thinks they know everything.

A wise person knows enough to know they couldn't possibly know everything.

There are zealots for every OS, like every religion. They do not represent the majority of users for either.
34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

What it's like to own an Apple product..

»theoatmeal.com/comics/apple

GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL

Interesting idea of prior art

His "a-ha" moment may have been him listening to A-Ha but it sure as hell wasn't about prior art.

Flawed logic and he led the jury right into the wrong verdict.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

patentable?

look and feel don't on the surface to be concepts that are covered by patents.. possibly intellectual property.. but not patents..

that's where the jury got confused.. enabling apple to be successful at suing rivals brings about a de-facto monopoly in the technology industry not seen since IBM and Microsoft. when you combine it with the way our economy works today protecting the big against all others we will have an international patent/intellectual property war similar to the piracy war going on today.. except apple's playing to win.. and has the cult-status to give it political and legal capital within society.

so what if the design looked close and samsung probably arranged the apps in the default state to look like apple's products so a person demoing the tablets,smartphones see a similar product and might be swayed one way or the other..

IMO, most technology literate consumers know what makes and Apple product and by exclusion, know what EVERYTHING ELSE is that is NOT Apple.. if you are in the market to buy these products you are not going to mistake one for the other.. (ie, you won't see an Apple employee mistake a samsung product if a customer switched them and went to return it)....

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Good

Take the money from the thieves at Samsung and let the thieves at Apple fork it over to the Swiss transit authority they stole the clock face from.

zara

@comcast.net

LMAO apple is so greedy!!!

I don't give a icrap for apple they are more greedy than at&t and that hard to beat. I want freedom not blind stupid give money to that over priced bloated company. Samsung need to stop make their crap for them. Let them make the other parts for a change. See how they design the display and other chips lMAO.