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Comments on news posted 2012-09-26 09:35:36: In case you're one of the few folks still on Verizon's DSL service dreaming of upgrades, Verizon has again confirmed that once current franchise build obligations are completed, Verizon will not be expanding their FiOS services any further. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · next


IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7

it was a bubble dream that burst.



VZSUX

@optonline.net

fios

People should hope that (a-holes) VZ sell the Fios and copper Networks or hope that Google comes and wire VZ's Fios unupgraded neglected cities



mech1164
I'll Be Back

join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ

1 recommendation

Follow the money

Personally I'm a bit sad about this. The product was probably one of the best example of forward thinking. Then it ran into the W$ insatiable hunger for profits at any cost. When VZ saw what people will put up with to get cell service they couldn't get out of wireline fast enough. And now with their capitulation with Cable, FIOS is not going anywhere anymore. Will it come back? May not be by them but yes it will. Our infrastructure is just to old not to. Who will do it that;s another question?



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Idiot Local Governments

I wonder how all those local governments which insisted on ridiculous and unreasonable conditions in exchange for the right to deploy FIOS, but who were slapped down (Boston, I'm looking at you), feel now?
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.


Telco

join:2008-12-19

What about every other part of America?


Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to IllIlIlllIll

Re: 9;

Actually, it was just another example of the private sector not having the stomach or willpower to push a project like this.

This is precisely why government needs to step in an own a wholesale FTTH network that anyone can use to deliver high-speed internet to Americans.


Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to mech1164

Re: Follow the money

Profit before the interests of the American people and America is the underlying creed of these companies.

Building on your point, they are now charging $40 for 300mb (shared), so its a cash-cow for them. They know that between them and At&T, Americans realistically have nowhere else to go.

Yet much like the 2007 economic collapse, the Republican base cheers this own and blames everyone but the perpetrators.


Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
reply to mech1164

said by mech1164:

And now with their capitulation with Cable, FIOS is not going anywhere anymore. Will it come back?

He didn't say they'll never be expanding their footprint, he said, "And at this point we won't build beyond that, because at this point we have to capitalize on what we have invested."

Verizon has a limited amount of capital to invest in network expansion, and much of that capital is currently going to the LTE build. Wireless is still a growth industry, there are millions of people out there that don't have smartphones, and it makes sense for Verizon to focus on grabbing as many of them as they can.

To be sure, there is money to be made on the wireline side of things, but there isn't as much growth potential as with wireless. Most people who are willing to sign up for a triple play already have, so at this point the only way to expand your customer base is to engage in a price war with the cable companies. Such a price war isn't necessary in wireless, not yet anyway, because it's still a growth market. You don't have to undermine your competition when there are plenty of new customers to go around for everybody.

The wireless market will mature by the end of the decade, perhaps sooner, and at that point Verizon will have the spare capital to put back into the wireline network.


Irun Man
Spartan up
Premium
join:2002-10-18
Walden, NY

they aren't dumb

They've been reading the tea leaves for years and are placing all their chips in wireless. They're getting existing VZW customers accustomed to bandwidth restrictions now so that new customers don't feel shortchanged. Too bad for wireline, unfortunately consumers are cutting the cord in more ways than one and FiOS won't be relevant or necessary in their world.
--
I turned on my computer for this?



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 recommendation

reply to Telco

Re: 9;

said by Telco:

This is precisely why government needs to step in an own a wholesale FTTH network that anyone can use to deliver high-speed internet to Americans.

That worked quite well for Amtrak.
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

1 recommendation

About that picture.

»/r0/download/2···b200.jpg

Poll
In the above photo - Fran Shammo

Can see you too

Isn't wearing any pants

Is just starting to Peak

Is auditioning for an Enzyte commercial

Has a frightened rabbit in one hand and a bottle of Wesson Oil in the other


Votes:54



--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.


mech1164
I'll Be Back

join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ
reply to Crookshanks

Re: Follow the money

said by Crookshanks:

said by mech1164:

And now with their capitulation with Cable, FIOS is not going anywhere anymore. Will it come back?

To be sure, there is money to be made on the wireline side of things, but there isn't as much growth potential as with wireless. Most people who are willing to sign up for a triple play already have, so at this point the only way to expand your customer base is to engage in a price war with the cable companies. Such a price war isn't necessary in wireless, not yet anyway, because it's still a growth market. You don't have to undermine your competition when there are plenty of new customers to go around for everybody.

The wireless market will mature by the end of the decade, perhaps sooner, and at that point Verizon will have the spare capital to put back into the wireline network.

First you just made my point. They DON'T want to compete period.

Second if you do believe this I have a Bridge to sell you CHEAP!

kevnich24

join:2006-04-19
Mulberry, FL
reply to Irun Man

Re: they aren't dumb

The sad thing about all of this - this is actually a step backward for this country to get a better, faster and more reliable internet. The more this is in the hands of corporations like Verizon, etc, the more this is going to happen. They want maximum profits for their shareholders which results in a crappy product for their customers. They will deliver just a good enough product to keep the majority of customers quiet and paying them every month. The concept of reinvesting the money you get back into the product to deliver an even better product is quite frankly out the window. Until the infrastructure gets out of the hands of them, this is how it'll work.



mech1164
I'll Be Back

join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ
reply to Noah Vail

Re: About that picture.

You missed one ALL THE ABOVE.:D

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

reply to pnh102

Re: 9;

Funny you pick Amtrak, why not the highway system? Oh that's right.. it would be contradictory to the BS you are trying to spread.

Amtrak is a niche form of traveling whereas a nationwide fiber infrastructure is vital to the entire country's digital future.



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

Verizon FioS...

..how we blinded the feds to give us incentive not to be forward thinking, wrote off millions in advertising for a service you won't get and failed to deliver a solid, long-term investment.

Sums that up. LTE? Really...a solution to a problem that could have been prevented.

Forsale: Verizon FiOS Hummer...
--
Splat


Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to pnh102

Re: Idiot Local Governments

And they are only going to continue to expand in markets that the local government put requirements on them to do so. Funny how that works huh? They don't go to one city because that place wants conditions met and yet they are now stuck meeting conditions put on them by others. Which is exactly the way it should be.

Personally, I dont think they should have been allowed to expand any part of their network unless they committed 100% to replacing every copper line with fiber within that city. If they didnt do that, the city should start a muni project.



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
reply to Skippy25

Re: 9;

said by Skippy25:

Funny you pick Amtrak, why not the highway system? Oh that's right.. it would be contradictory to the BS you are trying to spread.

How is what I said BS? Can you prove to me that Amtrak is efficient, profitable and well-run? Some citations would be helpful.

said by Skippy25:

Amtrak is a niche form of traveling whereas a nationwide fiber infrastructure is vital to the entire country's digital future.

That's your opinion, you can invest in it with your own money.
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.

Mahalo

join:2000-12-20
united state
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

Change of direction....

From what I have heard, VZ will be focusing more on wireless/cellular type development going forward. They are currently working on trying to reduce the number of hops and the latency over these types of networks to provide better and more services. If this is true, it would make sense that they would not build out the FTTH any longer and also shelf the copper side. They own a huge number of towers and have the bandwidth on the backbone, why not? If it becomes feasible, then all your services (TV, phone, and internet) would be delivered over wireless/cellular based networks and reducing your plant and labor costs for delivery.

They are also on a push for IP based services. Example, streaming TV service without being on their network to any device, intergration of the RedBox service, etc.

From what I was told, this is where most of their R&D is going.


Dampier
Phillip M Dampier

join:2003-03-23
Rochester, NY
reply to Crookshanks

Re: Follow the money

said by Crookshanks:

said by mech1164:

And now with their capitulation with Cable, FIOS is not going anywhere anymore. Will it come back?

He didn't say they'll never be expanding their footprint, he said, "And at this point we won't build beyond that, because at this point we have to capitalize on what we have invested."

Verizon has a limited amount of capital to invest in network expansion, and much of that capital is currently going to the LTE build. Wireless is still a growth industry, there are millions of people out there that don't have smartphones, and it makes sense for Verizon to focus on grabbing as many of them as they can.

To be sure, there is money to be made on the wireline side of things, but there isn't as much growth potential as with wireless. Most people who are willing to sign up for a triple play already have, so at this point the only way to expand your customer base is to engage in a price war with the cable companies. Such a price war isn't necessary in wireless, not yet anyway, because it's still a growth market. You don't have to undermine your competition when there are plenty of new customers to go around for everybody.

The wireless market will mature by the end of the decade, perhaps sooner, and at that point Verizon will have the spare capital to put back into the wireline network.

You are dreaming, unfortunately.

CapEx on wireless is already flat to down, according to Shammo. Despite the cost reductions for LTE as that network matures, Shammo is not saying he is taking the savings to spend elsewhere. The overwhelming bulk of spending on wireline is to support Verizon Wireless cell towers.

Wireless growth is slowing, and AT&T and VZW have a cozy relationship with nearly identical pricing, so why start a price war to pick off customers from each other when you are both sitting pretty. All of the future boosts in ARPU will come from pricing adjustments and milking usage-based pricing for data. ARPU up equals a happy Wall Street.

The only way Verizon is going to spend money on FiOS expansion is if it is tied to some regulatory matter they are trying to get passed Washington. Example: Verizon acquires another cell company and, in return, promises to restart the FiOS build. Or Verizon wants out of the landline business in rural America and agrees to restart FiOS buildout to compensate.

The cable-wireless cross-promotion deal has built in disincentives for marketing FiOS. Verizon could easily tolerate this pushing the cable product in FiOS-less markets it has no intention of entering, now or later.

My personal feeling is the current Verizon CEO sees FiOS as a giant CapEx mistake made by a predecessor, and he wants to put a period on it for Wall Street worried about increased spending.
--
Phillip M. Dampier
Editor, Stop the Cap!
»stopthecap.com


Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY

FIOS is like blue-ray

I think the problem comes with how market is evolving. Recent statistics show that more devices are getting connected wirelessly and demand for fixed connections is simply reducing.

And of course LTE offers benefit of overages (just like SMS used to be cash cow). Cable TV will also slowly die out in favor of digital deliveries.

The reason why I compare to blue-ray because it is similar analogy. Disk offered superior quality but online delivery offers higher profit margin and convenience.
--
Semper Fi



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
reply to Skippy25

Re: Idiot Local Governments

said by Skippy25:

And they are only going to continue to expand in markets that the local government put requirements on them to do so. Funny how that works huh? They don't go to one city because that place wants conditions met and yet they are now stuck meeting conditions put on them by others. Which is exactly the way it should be.

So what are you whining about? Verizon is simply meeting its building conditions.
said by Skippy25:

Personally, I dont think they should have been allowed to expand any part of their network unless they committed 100% to replacing every copper line with fiber within that city. If they didnt do that, the city should start a muni project.

Good thing you're not in charge, we'd not have FIOS anywhere. You saw what happened when local governments made unreasonable demands of Verizon and got slapped down and yet, you insist on a heavy-handed approach. You saw the failure of this approach You need to learn to accept reality that this approach does not work.

Verizon is doing every local government that has jurisdiction over FIOS' service area a favor, and it is time the local governments recognized this.
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.


Rich

@ptd.net
reply to pnh102

Re: 9;

Funny you try to make the assumption that a nationwide fiber network will be similar to amtrak. Fiber itself is profitable (unlike amtrak), it's the obscene build costs that are the reason the private sector won't get involved. The government could subsidize the build out a nationwide fiber network to every home, and eventually not only make the money back, but profit from it too. See: Electricity/Electric companies.


Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
reply to Skippy25

said by Skippy25:

Amtrak is a niche form of traveling whereas a nationwide fiber infrastructure is vital to the entire country's digital future.

We already have a nationwide fiber infrastructure. The debate is about extending that infrastructure into the last mile and ensuring that it reaches every single property in the United States. There's a bit of a difference between the two, and I'd be curious to hear your argument as to why our future is dependent on every home in America having access to gigabit+ speed internet connections.


NYC26

@rr.com

still my building doesnt have in Manhattan NY

these morons started wiring the city in 2008 and we are in 2012 still no sign of it. my building meet their requirements ( 21 floors, upper income, etc).


Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

1 recommendation

reply to mech1164

Re: Follow the money

said by mech1164:

First you just made my point. They DON'T want to compete period.

Why should they pour resources into a market with a lower ROI than they can earn in the wireless market? It's a for-profit corporation, not some sort of altruistic enterprise that exists to ensure that every American has access to FIOS.

The economics of the wireless industry will change as the market matures, and I'd be willing to wager that they'll turn more of their energies towards landline as that happens. Business needs to expand, or die, as the growth potential of wireless comes to an end they'll seek out other avenues to grow their business. Landline is the logical place for them to do this, they already have the know-how, and the underlying infrastructure is already in place.


OSP

@cox.net
reply to Telco

Re: 9;

really, government?, that would be your solution?
raise the funds and do it yourself.


Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
reply to Dampier

Re: Follow the money

said by Dampier:

My personal feeling is the current Verizon CEO sees FiOS as a giant CapEx mistake made by a predecessor, and he wants to put a period on it for Wall Street worried about increased spending.

It probably was a mistake, at least at the time, from a purely business point of view. Unless you're talking about extreme speeds that no residential customer really needs, there's nothing you can deliver with FTTH that you can't deliver cheaper with FTTN/C. Frontier is working on bonded DSL/VDSL implementations that will compete favorably with cable, while maximizing existing infrastructure and requiring far less CapEx than FIOS. It'd be impressive to see what they could do if they had the resources of a Verizon or AT&T, without the distraction of wireless, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not certain I buy your pessimism regarding the future of the industry. AT&T and Verizon's relationship isn't nearly as cozy as you suggest, they have two entirely different corporate cultures, as evidenced by their different approach to everything, labor relations, marketing, regulatory compliance, customer service, CapEx allocation, etc, etc.

Even if the relationship was that cozy, it's the nature of business to grow or die. As wireless growth slows down they will need to find other ways to grow their business, and landline is a logical place to do that. No company, not even one in a mono/duopoly setting, can afford to rest on its laurels while paying dividends.

If Verizon could sell their entire last mile landline business, today, I believe they would do so, particularly with the current management. They aren't going to be able to do that though, and the entire calculation will change in the coming years.

CrobertGauth

join:2007-12-15
Glen Burnie, MD

What About Comcast and Other Cable Companies

Everyone is on Verizon to expand FIOS. I haven't heard that Comcast, Time Warner, AT&T, etc. are building out either.
I think they have all reached saturation. No reason to compete with each other any more than now.


funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Crookshanks

Re: 9;

said by Crookshanks:

said by Skippy25:

Amtrak is a niche form of traveling whereas a nationwide fiber infrastructure is vital to the entire country's digital future.

We already have a nationwide fiber infrastructure. The debate is about extending that infrastructure into the last mile and ensuring that it reaches every single property in the United States. There's a bit of a difference between the two, and I'd be curious to hear your argument as to why our future is dependent on every home in America having access to gigabit+ speed internet connections.

HEY america DONT DO IT , we the rest of the world applaud your leaving citizens out of the future