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Comments on news posted 2012-09-26 09:35:36: In case you're one of the few folks still on Verizon's DSL service dreaming of upgrades, Verizon has again confirmed that once current franchise build obligations are completed, Verizon will not be expanding their FiOS services any further. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7

it was a bubble dream that burst.
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric

Re: 9;

Actually, it was just another example of the private sector not having the stomach or willpower to push a project like this.

This is precisely why government needs to step in an own a wholesale FTTH network that anyone can use to deliver high-speed internet to Americans.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 recommendation

Re: 9;

said by Telco:

This is precisely why government needs to step in an own a wholesale FTTH network that anyone can use to deliver high-speed internet to Americans.

That worked quite well for Amtrak.
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

Re: 9;

Funny you pick Amtrak, why not the highway system? Oh that's right.. it would be contradictory to the BS you are trying to spread.

Amtrak is a niche form of traveling whereas a nationwide fiber infrastructure is vital to the entire country's digital future.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: 9;

said by Skippy25:

Funny you pick Amtrak, why not the highway system? Oh that's right.. it would be contradictory to the BS you are trying to spread.

How is what I said BS? Can you prove to me that Amtrak is efficient, profitable and well-run? Some citations would be helpful.

said by Skippy25:

Amtrak is a niche form of traveling whereas a nationwide fiber infrastructure is vital to the entire country's digital future.

That's your opinion, you can invest in it with your own money.
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.

Rich

@ptd.net

Re: 9;

Funny you try to make the assumption that a nationwide fiber network will be similar to amtrak. Fiber itself is profitable (unlike amtrak), it's the obscene build costs that are the reason the private sector won't get involved. The government could subsidize the build out a nationwide fiber network to every home, and eventually not only make the money back, but profit from it too. See: Electricity/Electric companies.

jesferkicks

@comcast.net

Re: 9;

If money was to be made, as you say, the companies would find a way to do it. And I agree with the Amtrak guy. Way I see it if the government was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, it would be out of sand in 5 years.

And how about the folks who already have fiber, you wish them to give up more taxes so you can have it? That's raw.

NOCMan
MacChatter
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

Re: 9;

Companies will not do it, because investors are only interested in short term profits not long term gains. I bet if we changed capital gains taxes and pushed them out five years or a decade things would work themselves out. Investors would quit betting on short term investments in invest into things what will profit in the long run.
--
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openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
united state
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: 9;

Long term-capital gains are already favored in the tax code.
said by NOCMan:

Investors would quit betting on short term investments in invest into things what will profit in the long run.

Plenty of investors do, including many big money managers. I think short-term investor profits above all costs is a meme primarily created to help consumers cope with dissatisfying business decisions.

jesferkicks

@comcast.net
Dunno if taxes would change anything, they already penalize investors for short term ( year at cap gain rates). If companies won't do it, what did Verizon just do until it got in over its head? It will take awhile but all the big boys know fiber is the only way they can take on the inevitable increase in traffic or start capping monthly gigs which goes over really big time with customers.

And for the guy bringing up the highway system as a plus for government sponsored constuction. In Alabama, highway 75 makes its north south route through Montgomery instead of the straighter route (also the route presented by the construction companies) through Selma at a megamillion dollar addition to the cost -- which the taxpayers got stuck for. Government has little business doing business.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by Rich :

Funny you try to make the assumption that a nationwide fiber network will be similar to amtrak.

Why won't it be?

Why is it wrong to judge an entity by its past record?
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
My point was simple. You mention Amtrak, which is very niche and very unprofitable trying to compare it a fiber network as though a nationwide fiber network is doomed just like that niche market. Which, as I stated, is total BS.
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric
Amazing how you fail to mention that rail is not profitable in America because, unlike the rest of the world, the private companies own the actual rail here.

Whereas, rail is one of the most efficient and cheapest mode of transportation in every single country on the planet but America. That's over 95% of the world's population right there.
Expand your moderator at work
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
said by Skippy25:

Amtrak is a niche form of traveling whereas a nationwide fiber infrastructure is vital to the entire country's digital future.

We already have a nationwide fiber infrastructure. The debate is about extending that infrastructure into the last mile and ensuring that it reaches every single property in the United States. There's a bit of a difference between the two, and I'd be curious to hear your argument as to why our future is dependent on every home in America having access to gigabit+ speed internet connections.
funny

join:2010-12-22

Re: 9;

said by Crookshanks:

said by Skippy25:

Amtrak is a niche form of traveling whereas a nationwide fiber infrastructure is vital to the entire country's digital future.

We already have a nationwide fiber infrastructure. The debate is about extending that infrastructure into the last mile and ensuring that it reaches every single property in the United States. There's a bit of a difference between the two, and I'd be curious to hear your argument as to why our future is dependent on every home in America having access to gigabit+ speed internet connections.

HEY america DONT DO IT , we the rest of the world applaud your leaving citizens out of the future
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Re: 9;

Nice talking point, now tell me our future is dependent on every residential property in the United States having access to gigabit+ internet speeds? Name me another country, particularly one with a significant rural population, that is spending tax dollars to build out a nationwide last mile fiber network.

C'Mon, I want to hear an explanation for why we need to spend billions of dollars to ensure that every house has a faster connection to the internet than most currently have to their home LAN. Do tell, what driver of economic prosperity will emerge when Grandma has a taxpayer funded gigabit+ internet connection?
biochemistry
Premium
join:2003-05-09
92361

Re: 9;

Australia.

DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:14

1 recommendation

Re: 9;

said by biochemistry:

Australia.

Read about the NBN in Australia again....it never planned to roll out fiber everywhere. They're using wireless and satellite to cover HUGE chunks of Austrailia outside of the major metro areas.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.
JTR

join:2012-05-19
Carbondale, IL

1 recommendation

Not gigabit, it won't be completed for 9 more years, and it's not all going to be covered by fiber.

The Limit
Premium
join:2007-09-25
Greensboro, NC
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Windstream
I don't think anyone has said anything about REQUIRING gigabit speeds. A bit overkill there, but let's run with it anyway.

If broadband wasn't essential in this country, then why not do without? You mean that might be devastating to our economy? Oh, but isn't broadband just a luxury? Right...
--
"We will evaluate these integrals rigorously if we can, and non-rigorously if we must".
---Victor Moll, invited talk, Tom Osler Fest (April 17, 2010)
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

1 recommendation

Re: 9;

Look, I tend to think that everyone should have access to broadband. I just don't see why those of us in rural areas should get subsides for it, nor do I think that decent broadband service requires fiber to the premises. On the last point at least, it seems we agree, so there's that.

As far as my first point, before you reply with an analogy to rural electrification or some such, rural areas still pay more money for the basic necessities of life. My wife and I have to pay to maintain a well and septic tank. We use propane to heat our home, on a BTU to BTU basis it's three times as expensive as natural gas! Fuel oil is an alternative, one that would "only" cost two and a half times as much as natural gas. Electric heating costs range from 2x to 5x the cost of natural gas, depending on where you live, so that's not really an affordable alternative for most people. Around here it would be about 4x the cost of natural gas, so there's that.

Where are my subsides for these basic necessities of life?

The Limit
Premium
join:2007-09-25
Greensboro, NC
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Windstream

Re: 9;

Invest in alternative energy sources? I mean, I live out in rural country, and we don't use propane. I don't understand why someone would want to use propane, as from personal experience, it's highly variable, unless that's your only option.

It varies from location to location. Based on your argument, electricity isn't a basic necessity, only a luxury. So why not do without? Do you see the hole in your logic? Broadband, as I've argued time and time and time and time again, is not finite. These basic utilities are based on nonrenewable sources of energy (I mean sure, nuclear, but there's always that pesky issue in dealing with waste).

I feel that there were people that thought this way about electricity. Now it's broadband, so hopefully in 20 years the thought process would be changed. I'm just saying, doing away with broadband entirely would bring our economy to a screeching halt. Broadband is becoming more of a necessity every day.
--
"We will evaluate these integrals rigorously if we can, and non-rigorously if we must".
---Victor Moll, invited talk, Tom Osler Fest (April 17, 2010)
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Re: 9;

said by The Limit:

Invest in alternative energy sources? I mean, I live out in rural country, and we don't use propane. I don't understand why someone would want to use propane, as from personal experience, it's highly variable, unless that's your only option.

If you have a cheaper alternative that will heat a home through a harsh northeastern winter I'm all ears.

said by The Limit:

Broadband, as I've argued time and time and time and time again, is not finite.

The cost to deliver broadband is real and measurable. Rural areas take away economy of scale, thus increasing the capital expenditure necessary to achieve full coverage. So the question is, who should bear the cost of the initial capital expenditure? The ISP might be able to do it, but they'll want to charge rural customers more money to recoup their investment. Do you take issue with that?

Alternatively, we can fund it through tax dollars and/or a surcharge on existing customers. Personally, I don't really regard this as fair, and if it happens I'm going to be seriously peeved that we aren't doing the same to bring natural gas to rural areas. Once the infrastructure is in place it wouldn't cost any more to deliver gas to rural customers, you just need someone to foot the initial bill to install pipelines, compressor stations, etc.

said by The Limit:

I'm just saying, doing away with broadband entirely would bring our economy to a screeching halt. Broadband is becoming more of a necessity every day.

To be sure, it's becoming more and more essential to life in the 21st century. But it does not follow that we need to subsidize the installation of broadband services for those areas currently lacking them. In any case, the market seems well on it's way to solving this problem with wireless services, which are much cheaper to deploy in rural areas than landline services. WISPs and cellular data are the way to go in rural areas, not investing billions of dollars to string wires all over God's country.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: 9;

I'm sure there were people like you that claimed the same thing when electricity was being rolled out. And yet you have electricity in your rural area dont you? So it was OK for that subsidy to be had for electricity but it is not OK for the "next big utility" of broadband?

Or do you think yourself and those like you should be running wind mills, damming up streams or running hamster wheel farms to satisfy your electrical needs?

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: 9;

said by Skippy25:

Or do you think yourself and those like you should be running wind mills, damming up streams or running hamster wheel farms to satisfy your electrical needs?

Ever hear of a diesel generator? They provided electricity to farms for decades before Franklin Roosevelt rolled out his rural electrification pgm.
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: 9;

OK and your point......?

Wait so what you are saying is that government brought electricity to them just like they should broadband.

Agreed!

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: 9;

said by Skippy25:

OK and your point......?

My point was that the examples you chose to make fun of the previous poster were ridiculous when a perfectly usable technology like diesel generators were around forever.
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/
xexx

join:2004-09-03
Aledo, TX
Reviews:
·Skybeam.net
said by FFH See Profile

Ever hear of a diesel generator? They provided electricity to farms for decades before Franklin Roosevelt rolled out his rural electrification pgm.
[/BQUOTE :

Are you seriously claiming a diesel generator is anywhere near as useful or powerful enough to run modern farming areas and homes with power? Who needs electricity when you have horses to pull equipment anyway!

Cobra11M

join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX
..I believe your still better off with wirelines, goverment should step in and expand or give a initiative otherwise it wont happen period.

Its unacceptable that our country continues to drop in speed ratings (AND WE ARE THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH) China for criest sakes is rolling out fiber.. they at least will have a option for rural areas in china...

it can be done here (their needs to be a option for rural areas) DSL as its stands wont be.. Sat isnt ready but it getting their, either way it does affect our great country weather or not you want to see it the 21st century relies on data and internet connections, from paying bills online, shopping, music, entertainment, and so on
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
Clearly I was speaking of a complete fiber network and I think your other talking points were taking care of in below comments so I wont address those.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by Skippy25:

a nationwide fiber infrastructure is vital to the entire country's digital future.

A nationwide fiber infrastructure exists and has for many years. It just doesn't extend to individual residences.
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Yep
Mordhem
Love it, Hate it.

join:2003-07-10
Baltimore, MD
Arguing with complete idiots is a waste of time trust me. They don't under stand that besides leading in war sector this country's going down the toilet. Our broadband is ranked poorly for being the richest country in the world. The problem being that Verizon does not want to expand because they want laws to be past to give them the edge over comcast and such, those companys would need to pay the fees but verizon thinks they should be exempt. One problem with the telecom companies is that it was government money that helped build them. People don't under much like a monarch they end up being so large that they just sit on the money instead of reinvesting it (The only way capitalism can keep working) Its also very Anti-American. As for the Idiot saying build your own wouldn't it be funny if we said that about everything... But I will answer what happened when a community tried. Simply put Verizon Dumped a lot of money out of have the project killed and it worked. See when you're a mega Corporation you throw money around to presidents and they can buy out congress. Hell right now they could give Obama 100 Million and also make a large employment run so it looks likes the Jobs Jumped 15% in this mounth. Thats allot of power to be able to wield and they do. So no you can't just go out and install your own fiber company. IMO Verizon (Ma Bell) should be split back up because their back to their old practices they have reformed just about all the companies that had been broken up last time this time in to small company may be IDK Its just me I hate their company. Anyways I hope they keep twiddling their thumbs Comcast will keep eating away at their company at least they are innovative has a well performing network that sees upgrades all the time including additional fiber.
TuxRaiderPen

join:2009-09-19
said by pnh102:
said by Telco:
This is precisely why government needs to step in an own a wholesale FTTH network that anyone can use to deliver high-speed internet to Americans.
That worked quite well for Amtrak.

Is the broadband policy in this country borq'd beyond belief?

YES!

Are sleasy investors killing a great project?

YES!

Is passenger rail service in this country borq'd beyond repair?

[b]YES![b/] has been for decades since they let the RR's weasel out of servivce both passenger and freight... decades ago.

Sad , truly sad, no, absolute disgrace that this country has no high speed rail service to go between coasts, and feed local passenger service to smaller areas... absolute disgrace that countries like Japan and even the french put this country to shame on high speed rail. Disgrace!

Amtrak is a joke, even Canada, *mariginally* gets it better, just slightly, and not by much... they too let passenger rail service be chisled away piece by piece...

Then the whole idiotic rails to trails... URRRGH!

NO MORE TRAILS! LOTS AND LOTS OF RAILS! RIP THE TRAILS DOWN AND PUT THE RAILS BACK!

Let the smoke bellow and the whistles blow!

Alllllll ABBBBOOOOOARDDD!
--
1311393600 - Back to Black.....Black....Black....

••••••••••

OSP

@cox.net
really, government?, that would be your solution?
raise the funds and do it yourself.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: 9;

Only if everyone on this board did that, we'd have that FTTH network by now. But oh wait, the fanboys, think private businesses and tax payers should be giving it away for FREE. because that's their right!

elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO

Re: 9;

its funny they dont what the govt doing and when private business does (Google) they spread FUD about how its going to fail
funny that

FifthE1ement
Tech Nut

join:2005-03-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
said by Telco:

Actually, it was just another example of the private sector not having the stomach or willpower to push a project like this.

This is precisely why government needs to step in an own a wholesale FTTH network that anyone can use to deliver high-speed internet to Americans.

No offense bro but the government just doesn't run businesses well. I agree the government does some great things with social programs but when it comes to running a business (profitability) the government just can't stomach it. They run everything like it has an unending supply of money! I can point out a million examples of government running business that have failed and that hemorrhage money but just a few are: Amtrak, Utility Companies, USPS (Post Office), Solar Energy companies (too many to name), GM/Chrysler losses and my favorite Obamacare (which the price has risen for healthcare even after they said after it passed prices would go down). I don't want government dealing with any non-essentials at all!
--
"The relationship between what we see and what we know is never settled..."

•••••••••••••••••

Xioden
Premium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by Telco:

Actually, it was just another example of the private sector not having the stomach or willpower to push a project like this.

This is precisely why government needs to step in an own a wholesale FTTH network that anyone can use to deliver high-speed internet to Americans.

Yup I agree. Would run in government ~150 billion dollars to wire every single house in the country with FTTH. It would be a HUGE economic stimulus, create tons of jobs, and a good chunk of that money would be coming back as income tax since a lot of that ~150 billion would be labor. Hell, it wouldn't even cost us anything, just redirect a few % of the defense budget for a couple years and it's covered.

But meh, who am I kidding. Investing in our own infrastructure, creating jobs when unemployment is through the roof and actually doing something useful with tax dollars makes way too much sense so it will never happen.
alancats

join:2000-09-20
New York, NY
Reviews:
·ViaTalk

1 recommendation

Re: 9;

Sure; let's spend more money we don't have and incur even more indebtedness. Brilliant economic strategy.

If a business model has merit, the private sector will build it at its own expense, because money can be made off of it. When government interferes in the free market, the economic Darwinism of the free market falls by the wayside, and you end up with Solyndra, Fisker, etc. -- companies that used the artificial crutch of taxpayer funds to avoid developing viable business models, because they were artificially insulated from having to survive on merit and true competition and innovation.

Crony capitalism via handouts of taxpayer money to favored and well-connected campaign contributor businessmen is poor policy and even poorer economics.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Re: 9;

said by alancats:

If a business model has merit, the private sector will build it at its own expense, because money can be made off of it. When government interferes in the free market, the economic Darwinism of the free market falls by the wayside, and you end up with Solyndra, Fisker, etc. -- companies that used the artificial crutch of taxpayer funds to avoid developing viable business models, because they were artificially insulated from having to survive on merit and true competition and innovation.

Sorry but this is an oversimplified and unrealistic view. The Free Market is only an economic model for examining limited interaction... it is not reality. The fact is that business itself rejects the Free Market and moves the system further away from it whenever possible.

Your belief that the private sector will pursue a business model with merit is usually not true. Any large incumbent business that views smaller business as a competitive threat will actively try to destroy them though bankrupting legal actions, lobbying for discriminatory legislation, anti-competitive price fixing schemes, etc. Government is absolutely justified in stepping in where business deliberately screws things up.

And, in case you missed it, Xioden suggested diverting money from the defense budget (money we don't have that we are already spending) NOT to spend additional money as you suggested. I wholeheartedly agree with this... infrastructure improvements would be far better for the country than wasting money to protect us from... (whom exactly?) Because as you correctly point out 'handouts of taxpayer money to favored and well-connected campaign contributor businessmen is poor policy and even poorer economics'.

jduffy
Premium
join:2006-08-20
Cincinnati, OH
Yeah, especially since everything the government gets into is so successful like solar power, the postal "service", Amtrak, welfare, social security, etc.
--
Atheists swear there is no Heaven, but pray there isn't a Hell.
Expand your moderator at work
alancats

join:2000-09-20
New York, NY
Reviews:
·ViaTalk

2 recommendations

Your post is misguided and ignorant. Verizon spent roughly $25 billion building out their FIOS network. They have every right in the world to start making a return on that investment. Only someone who possessed an obscenely profligate, big government mindset and a total ignorance of economics would fail to understand what a massive investment of money this represents. This was a gigantic risk for Verizon, and they took plenty of heat from investors because of it. They have an obligation to make a return for their shareholders, not to be foolishly altruistic and continue to fund a massive expansion where it doesn't make economic sense to do so.

And, of course, you further posit -- against all common sense -- that we need the benevolent hand of the federal government to step in and provide broadband. Any person who sees government intervention as a panacea for every problem, whether real or perceived, is stunningly naive.
Expand your moderator at work

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by Telco:

This is precisely why government needs to step in an own a wholesale FTTH network that anyone can use to deliver high-speed internet to Americans.

I lived under a government owned telco for 20+ years. It was not a nice experience.

Worst service ever.

Workers constantly on strike and sabotaging already aging infrastructure, rude customer service, arbitrary rate hikes "take it or leave it, we are a monopoly, fuck you," port blocking, using the hammer of Government to block private sector competitors, slowness to adopt new technologies, and just general incompetence and misery. We even paid paid $5/month to rent a telephone handset and you weren't allowed to use your own, just like the ma bell monopoly.

The day the monopoly expired and they got private sector competition from an irish wireless company is when service suddenly and dramatically improved.

They had to fight or die and they couldn't just sit and rest knowing their state owned monopoly jobs were secure.

I will never ever ever support telecom as a Government owned service. Ever.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Re: 9;

Haha, You just described Verizon!

Workers constantly on strike and company neglecting already aging infrastructure, rude customer service, arbitrary rate hikes "take it or leave it, the competition does this too, fuck you," port blocking, using the hammer of legal expenses to block competitors, slowness to adopt new technologies, and just general incompetence and misery.

When big business adopts the same bad habits of government-run services... what do we do then?
avgbowler6

join:2005-08-10
Venice, CA
No, maybe it is the fact that Verizon's unions make it too difficult to get things done. The LTE network is non union. After the last strike is when they said there will be no more expansion. I hate to say it, but I do not blame them with how the union acts.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Re: 9;

said by avgbowler6:

No, maybe it is the fact that Verizon's unions make it too difficult to get things done. The LTE network is non union. After the last strike is when they said there will be no more expansion. I hate to say it, but I do not blame them with how the union acts.

Of course you know that the Telephone company has been union since 1918 don't you? There was a lot accomplished by the union workers... suddenly things are 'too difficult'? Certainly you are aware that the 'LTE Network' is nothing but a piece of equipment installed at a cell site... the real network is the fiber backbones connecting them to the MTSO; all installed by union labor. I am positive you realize that Verizon announced in 2010 (before the last strike) that they were shifting from FIOS to wireless.

So my question to you is: Why waste time posting incorrect information? If fairness in the workplace bothers you... just come out and say it.
Expand your moderator at work

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Fill in the subject field

How about filling in a subject field when starting a sub thread? You do this all the time and it messes up the forum software when you don't.
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/

VZSUX

@optonline.net

fios

People should hope that (a-holes) VZ sell the Fios and copper Networks or hope that Google comes and wire VZ's Fios unupgraded neglected cities

•••

mech1164
I'll Be Back

join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ

1 recommendation

Follow the money

Personally I'm a bit sad about this. The product was probably one of the best example of forward thinking. Then it ran into the W$ insatiable hunger for profits at any cost. When VZ saw what people will put up with to get cell service they couldn't get out of wireline fast enough. And now with their capitulation with Cable, FIOS is not going anywhere anymore. Will it come back? May not be by them but yes it will. Our infrastructure is just to old not to. Who will do it that;s another question?

•••••••••••••

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Idiot Local Governments

I wonder how all those local governments which insisted on ridiculous and unreasonable conditions in exchange for the right to deploy FIOS, but who were slapped down (Boston, I'm looking at you), feel now?
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.

••••••

Irun Man
Spartan up
Premium
join:2002-10-18
Walden, NY

they aren't dumb

They've been reading the tea leaves for years and are placing all their chips in wireless. They're getting existing VZW customers accustomed to bandwidth restrictions now so that new customers don't feel shortchanged. Too bad for wireline, unfortunately consumers are cutting the cord in more ways than one and FiOS won't be relevant or necessary in their world.
--
I turned on my computer for this?
kevnich24

join:2006-04-19
Mulberry, FL

Re: they aren't dumb

The sad thing about all of this - this is actually a step backward for this country to get a better, faster and more reliable internet. The more this is in the hands of corporations like Verizon, etc, the more this is going to happen. They want maximum profits for their shareholders which results in a crappy product for their customers. They will deliver just a good enough product to keep the majority of customers quiet and paying them every month. The concept of reinvesting the money you get back into the product to deliver an even better product is quite frankly out the window. Until the infrastructure gets out of the hands of them, this is how it'll work.

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Bright House

1 recommendation

About that picture.

»/r0/download/2···b200.jpg
Poll
In the above photo - Fran Shammo

Can see you too

Isn't wearing any pants

Is just starting to Peak

Is auditioning for an Enzyte commercial

Has a frightened rabbit in one hand and a bottle of Wesson Oil in the other


Votes:54



--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.

mech1164
I'll Be Back

join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ

Re: About that picture.

You missed one ALL THE ABOVE.:D
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
Looks like he was kicked in the head my a mule as a child.

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

Verizon FioS...

..how we blinded the feds to give us incentive not to be forward thinking, wrote off millions in advertising for a service you won't get and failed to deliver a solid, long-term investment.

Sums that up. LTE? Really...a solution to a problem that could have been prevented.

Forsale: Verizon FiOS Hummer...
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Splat
Mahalo

join:2000-12-20
united state
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

Change of direction....

From what I have heard, VZ will be focusing more on wireless/cellular type development going forward. They are currently working on trying to reduce the number of hops and the latency over these types of networks to provide better and more services. If this is true, it would make sense that they would not build out the FTTH any longer and also shelf the copper side. They own a huge number of towers and have the bandwidth on the backbone, why not? If it becomes feasible, then all your services (TV, phone, and internet) would be delivered over wireless/cellular based networks and reducing your plant and labor costs for delivery.

They are also on a push for IP based services. Example, streaming TV service without being on their network to any device, intergration of the RedBox service, etc.

From what I was told, this is where most of their R&D is going.

•••••

Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY

FIOS is like blue-ray

I think the problem comes with how market is evolving. Recent statistics show that more devices are getting connected wirelessly and demand for fixed connections is simply reducing.

And of course LTE offers benefit of overages (just like SMS used to be cash cow). Cable TV will also slowly die out in favor of digital deliveries.

The reason why I compare to blue-ray because it is similar analogy. Disk offered superior quality but online delivery offers higher profit margin and convenience.
--
Semper Fi

NYC26

@rr.com

still my building doesnt have in Manhattan NY

these morons started wiring the city in 2008 and we are in 2012 still no sign of it. my building meet their requirements ( 21 floors, upper income, etc).
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Re: still my building doesnt have in Manhattan NY

It is possible that the building owner/board made a deal ($$$$) to not let them in.
CrobertGauth

join:2007-12-15
Glen Burnie, MD

What About Comcast and Other Cable Companies

Everyone is on Verizon to expand FIOS. I haven't heard that Comcast, Time Warner, AT&T, etc. are building out either.
I think they have all reached saturation. No reason to compete with each other any more than now.

•••
biochemistry
Premium
join:2003-05-09
92361

but but

I thought verizon was a separate company from verizon wireless. If so, why would the wireline verizon want to stop expanding?

•••

RedCaliSS
Premium
join:2004-08-21
Murrieta, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

blah blah

blah blah blah... everyone whining about what Verizon is or isn't doing. it does not matter.. as much as I hate it just as much as the next schmuck, but feel very fortunate that I do have FIOS.. everyone forgets one simple fact.. they are a private non government entity.. they are a publicly traded corporation.. they are a business.. Verizon just like any business is out to make $$$.. like it or not thats the plain simple fact.. they are a business, they are in the business to make money for themselves and the stockholders(which i dare say I have stock in Vz). I'm self employed and I sure as hell do not work for free, I'm driven to show a profit at the end of each quarter so my family can live in a comfortable lifestyle.
Verizon has to make sound business decisions. if not they stand to lose billions...
It is our own fault as a people and a republic that we've elected idiots to represent us and our best interests..

••••••
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

speaks volumes...

Oh, I thought betting the company on WIRELESS was going to be whole new money making utopia?!?!? Nobody needs a good deal on FIOS anymore.. keep jacking up the prices until nobody wants it anymore..

Get back to me when the 300mbit tier for triple play is about $100 after all taxes and fees are inclusive..

Verizon made their bed with wireless now they have to lie in it for at least 2 more years.

NJBoricua75
Born And Raised

join:2000-09-13
Brooklyn, NY

Redlining and lack of multiple dwelling deployment...

didn't help matters. Incompetent assholes. I bet the Dolan's are celebrating right now
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

Re: Redlining and lack of multiple dwelling deployment...

said by NJBoricua75:

didn't help matters. Incompetent assholes. I bet the Dolan's are celebrating right now

Verizon seemed to have reneged on parts of Long Island.. time will tell if they shortchange NYC as well..

makinmymark

@sbc.com

1983

It's Judge Green's fault. Taking a Monopoly and turning it into a for profit business has gotten us to this point. Now that the genie is out of the bottle, there is no going back. These companies will close before they become a regulated utility again.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: 1983

Right...... And actors will stop acting and musicians will stop making music and innovators will stop innovating if anything comes close to changing the fundamental way they do business and make money.

I am sure every one of them will rather not make any money at all or completely change what they do just because they want to stick it to "the man".

antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4

:(

Lame. I want FIOS!

cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3

Eh, screw them.

That's their own loss then. With DOCSIS 3.0 and Cable and Sattelite operators adding HD services, who needs Verizon Fios for HDTV/Internet/Phone anymore?

Sure options are nice but hey, it's Verizon's on G. Damn loss for not giving wannabe customers the oppurtunitiy to become long time subscribers.

Sounds like they have a lot of horror stories in the Billing and Customer Service Dept. anyway. Hope they choke on it.

GPON4YOU

@mindspring.com

Get your GPON HERE

If Gigabit passive optical networking is such a big deal, other nations are building out full scale PON Networks and the USA will be technologically toast.

First world nations will have First World infrastructures.

Even some small islands will get GPON technologies. But the rest of the gap will get filled in with wireless technologies which are faster than DSL today or satellite which has inherent latency issues.

If there is a significant market that Verizon is not covering, another for profit firm will come in and monetize it especially as prices have dropped immensely on deployment costs with new technologies emerging.

In fact if you know of a significant market, we can work together to start up a firm to get Fiber deployment done right now.

jfleni

@bhn.net

Re: Get your GPON HERE

Only partially true. Cable is fixated on coaxial cable -- DOCSIS, QAM, DOCSIS+, and all the rest of the crazy alphabet soup, for yesterday's (and day before yesterday's) technology. The local cable company here just recently hung miles of thick, heavy coax everywhere, instead of modern plastic optical fiber (very efficient, light, fast and cheap for last-mile connections). It was obsolete the day they put it up.

Eventually, smaller telcos like Frontier and CenturyLink will put modern fiber everywhere to replace their copper ,or else go out of business, always a possibility with telco plutocrats. IF (a big IF) they survive, that will solve many problems, and take a giant step toward a nation-wide completely door-to-door fiber network. Cable will struggle to follow behind when that happens.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4

Want fios?

MOVE!

because if its not where you are, you aren't getting it.
--
Despises any post with strings.