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Comments on news posted 2012-10-05 12:41:56: Despite bi-annual price increases, very visible lower income subscriber losses and rate hikes traditionally twice the rate of inflation -- Sanford Bernstein analyst Todd Juenger thinks cable TV rate hikes are being "overblown. ..

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brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL

1 recommendation

brianiscool

Member

Price

Does this mean I will get a pay increase two times a year?
Os
join:2011-01-26
US

Os

Member

Of course not.

Wall Street is allowed to make money. You're not.

Of course, one day, the intellectual inconsistency of all this will be revealed, and the greed's going to sink it all. But they're too short-sighted to chase the cash to realize that.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

1 edit

1 recommendation

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Comparing to Pet food is bad journalism

First off one can stock up a month of pet food for less than a cable bill. Second the cable TV never goes on sale and has coupons. So even as the food prices go up, one can shop smartly and still get more for less of a good name brand.

With Cable and Telco services one can only get more services or less services and the price swings accordingly, You cant go to the cable office with coupon and get two premiums for the price of one.

Cthen
Premium Member
join:2004-08-01
Detroit, MI

1 edit

1 recommendation

Cthen

Premium Member

Idiot!

quote:
Insists It's No Big Deal Because Dog Food is Also Pricey
Hhmm... Well, I have a choice between many stores in my area that do compete with each other on pricing. In any one of those stores I have yet again (GASP!) even more choices where the manufacturers compete on pricing.

I just can't say the same for any television service or ISP for that matter.

Then again this person is after all a self proclaimed "Stock Jock". Sounds like to me someone made an investment and\or convinced a lot of others to make an investment that now seems to not be panning out. The soloution? Pump it!

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

Cat food and cable TV rates

One example of how bad inflation has gotten is cat food. The prescription diet cat food that I bought for a cat that unfortunately passed away in 2004 cost about $24 per case at the vet's office in 2003. Now my current cat (who is getting up there in age, about 8 years old) now eats that same cat food (vet just switched him to it when I took him in last night) and I was hit with sticker shock when that cat food was a whopping $37 per case for the exact same cat food nearly 9 years later.

Cable TV rates are not as bad with inflation as the sticker shock that I was hit with last night at the vet's office (and I have been using the same vet since I moved to Springfield (MA) back in 2002). Cable TV rates around here seem to be stable. The real reason they seem higher is now you are throwing home phone and high speed internet into the equation. With the recession and the trend of cord cutting, the cablecos have been offering some real sweet deals. And when your promotion expires, call the retentions department, threaten to switch to DSL/POTS/DirecTV and they will renew that sweet deal.

When I first subscribed to Cable TV back in the year 2000, I would never go back to an antenna. Back when I had an antenna, I always had issues with bad pictures, poor reception, and lack of quality programming. I will tell you firsthand that an overbuilder does keep cable rates in check. Cedar Rapids, IA has an overbuilder (Im'ON communications, formerly McLeodUSA) and they had cheaper cable rates than Comcast (sole provider) in Springfield, MA and my cable bill went up a good $20 just by moving.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Imon is just an awesome company. They still don't have a cap and have great customer service.

TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA

TechyDad

Premium Member

Stubborn relationship of Americans with their TV

The claim that Internet Video won't displace cable TV because of some "stubborn relationship of Americans with their TV" idea is completely false. First of all, TV was new at one time. I'm sure some pundit at the time derisively dismissed the idea that TV could ever take over the relationship Americans had with their radios. In 50 years' time, some other disruptive technology will probably be dismissed for not being able to compete with Internet Video.

Secondly, who's saying that the television set is dead? With a Roku box, I can stream Netflix (and Amazon VOD and a lot of other video sources) right to my TV. I'm watching Internet Video, but the viewing experience is very much like normal TV. Even my not-so-tech savvy father was able to set up his Roku box with minimal guidance. Americans can stubbornly cling to their TVs while watching Internet video.
ke4pym
Premium Member
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

ke4pym to Kearnstd

Premium Member

to Kearnstd

Re: Comparing to Pet food is bad journalism

said by Kearnstd:

First off one can stock up a month of pet food for less than a cable bill. Second the cable TV never goes on sale and has coupons. So even as the food prices go up, one can shop smartly and still get more for less of a good name brand.

With Cable and Telco services one can only get more services or less services and the price swings accordingly, You cant go to the cable office with coupon and get two premiums for the price of one.

That's not /quite/ entirely true. If you're not calling up your video provider at least 2 times a year to see if there are any special packages that you may be eligible for, you're doing yourself a disservice.

I'm always getting some kind of discount. Even if it is just $5 here or $5 there. Still a discount.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy to silbaco

Premium Member

to silbaco

Re: Cat food and cable TV rates

I miss living in Cedar Rapids (IA) as everything there was cheaper. My mom took a job in Springfield (MA) and with my aging grandmother (who lives in Maine), we relocated to Springfield, MA. I heard that Mediacom went downhill since I left CR.

As for Comcast, I have yet another truck roll scheduled today and I'm afraid they'll plug the meter in, say the signal is fine, and refer the issue to their do-nothing line techs.
Os
join:2011-01-26
US

Os to ke4pym

Member

to ke4pym

Re: Comparing to Pet food is bad journalism

Some video providers have no interest in providing deals. I think this is largely a myth unless you live in a FiOS/u-Verse area.

The last time I called Atlantic Broadband to see what specials were available, they told me to drop my internet speed. I was paying $150+/month for TV, internet and phone, and I didn't even have a cable box.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Are The Cited Comparisons Logical?

If we forget about the subway (I have no idea why it costs more), is it logical to compare cable rates with pet food, coffee and gas products?

Inflation in these industries is closely tied to raw material costs (meat/grain, coffee beans and crude oil) of which cable has none. Of course there are synergies. Energy inflation is shared by everyone but I'd argue cable is probably far more dependent on electricity prices than the other industries where the consumer can see significant spikes when shipping costs rise. Labor inflation is also shared but aside from an increase in the minimum wage (which might explain some of the cup-o-Joe inflation), it seems reasonable that labor costs have probably been flat or declining given productivity improvements and high unemployment.

Cable's lone and certainly not insignificant variable is content. So is it reasonable to compare content inflation with these other industries? It doesn't seem like there are any logical relationship between what it costs to produce content and what it costs to produce products in these other industries.

Perhaps comparisons like this sound good on the surface but I don't think it's rational to justify cable rate inflation by comparing it to these other industries. It's just spin, nothing more.

What I find far more interesting about cable is it seems few pay full price because there's always a deal where for a given time period if you bundle. It's been my experience that by the time the deal ends, the services have changed and although there's a new deal, it's not black and white to determine just how much prices increased.

Look at the dynamic duo of wireless. They've completely changed how they sell services. Can the typical consumer easily determine whether or not unlimited voice and text and shared data is more or less costly than what they had before? (especially when sales speaks of the former need to buy data for each individual phone and now everyone can share a single pool for one low price -- whatever low means...)
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco to IowaCowboy

Premium Member

to IowaCowboy

Re: Cat food and cable TV rates

Mediacom's customer service could use some help, but I think they are improving. They were pretty bad for a while, but Imon and Centurylink have been pretty aggressive lately, so they have had to wake up. And Southslope is giving them some pretty good competition outside of Cedar Rapids.

Good old comcast. Glad they are not in this area. Who is the telco in your area? Centurylink?
Wilsdom
join:2009-08-06

Wilsdom to rradina

Member

to rradina

Re: Are The Cited Comparisons Logical?

Regardless of their costs, you are still paying the bill with Dollars that aren't worth much. Silly you for working the same amount for crappier paper.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Yawn...

Paying out the wazoo for TV... that's so 2000s.
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch to IowaCowboy

Member

to IowaCowboy

Re: Cat food and cable TV rates

Not sure if any of these cat foods are the one you have to use (they don't seem to require a prescription), but it's worth a look.

»www.entirelypets.com/pet ··· od1.html

I've never bought food from EntirelyPets, but I've bought flea, tick, and deworming meds from them, and they've been great to deal with. One tip is to sign up for their e-mail ads, as just about every one will have some sort of discount code.

Hope this at least helps to lower your cat food costs a bit.
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

elray to TechyDad

Member

to TechyDad

Re: Stubborn relationship of Americans with their TV

It isn't a stubborn relationship.

Its about value.

The typical household has diverse interests, including live feeds, which are only addressed with a pay-tv subscription, not any OTT product.

$70+/month for basic pay-tv service is not unreasonable when you compare it to any other entertainment option.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to rradina

Member

to rradina

Re: Are The Cited Comparisons Logical?

Of course it's not logical. Not only do I have several brands of pet food to choose from I have several places I can get that pet food. Even in my small town. You don't have those option for cable TV.

TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA

TechyDad to elray

Premium Member

to elray

Re: Stubborn relationship of Americans with their TV

In my case, sports (which I'm guessing constitute much of your "live feeds") aren't an issue. I actually figured that I could replace most our TV watching with a combination of Amazon VOD, Netflix, and OTA for about $36 a month. So far the only thing keeping us on cable is the DVR (would be expensive in the short term to replace it for OTA programming) and the fact that my cable company gave me a good deal (because we called to complain). If, when the year is up on our deal, they insist on raising our bill back to the original figure, it'll make financial sense for us to cut the cord.

FLATLINE
join:2007-02-27
Buffalo, NY

1 recommendation

FLATLINE to pnh102

Member

to pnh102

Re: Yawn...

Isn't that the truth.

nonamesleft
join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI

nonamesleft to IowaCowboy

Member

to IowaCowboy

Re: Cat food and cable TV rates

said by IowaCowboy:

One example of how bad inflation has gotten is cat food. The prescription diet cat food that I bought for a cat that unfortunately passed away in 2004 cost about $24 per case at the vet's office in 2003. Now my current cat (who is getting up there in age, about 8 years old) now eats that same cat food (vet just switched him to it when I took him in last night) and I was hit with sticker shock when that cat food was a whopping $37 per case for the exact same cat food nearly 9 years later.

Cable TV rates are not as bad with inflation as the sticker shock that I was hit with last night at the vet's office (and I have been using the same vet since I moved to Springfield (MA) back in 2002). Cable TV rates around here seem to be stable. The real reason they seem higher is now you are throwing home phone and high speed internet into the equation. With the recession and the trend of cord cutting, the cablecos have been offering some real sweet deals. And when your promotion expires, call the retentions department, threaten to switch to DSL/POTS/DirecTV and they will renew that sweet deal.

When I first subscribed to Cable TV back in the year 2000, I would never go back to an antenna. Back when I had an antenna, I always had issues with bad pictures, poor reception, and lack of quality programming. I will tell you firsthand that an overbuilder does keep cable rates in check. Cedar Rapids, IA has an overbuilder (Im'ON communications, formerly McLeodUSA) and they had cheaper cable rates than Comcast (sole provider) in Springfield, MA and my cable bill went up a good $20 just by moving.

The vet and cable rates are a good comparison. You know its gonna come with a shock!
XknightHawkX
join:2003-02-13
East Peoria, IL

1 recommendation

XknightHawkX

Member

I don't watch sports can we get cheaper rate?

because of MVPDs’ focus on the rising cost of sports rights and retrans fees.


If sports rights are the problem then please make a sports tier and let us decide if we want it. I'm not a sports fan. I don't watch sports. But Ala Carte can cost us more or so he says. If I'm not picking a sports channel I should be fine.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy to silbaco

Premium Member

to silbaco

Re: Cat food and cable TV rates

said by silbaco:

Good old comcast. Glad they are not in this area. Who is the telco in your area? Centurylink?

In most of Southern New England (Massachusetts where I live and most of Rhode Island) it is Verizon. In Connecticut, they have AT&T. Verizon sold off most of Norther New England (ME, NH, and VT) to FairPoint. Verizon lately has neglected their DSL/POTS network, sold off their payphone business to PTS, and they are focusing their resources on their FiOS (FTTH) network available in the eastern third of Massachusetts and parts of RI. They seem to refuse to upgrade the part of the state of Massachusetts (Springfield) where I live to FiOS so it gives Comcast a defacto monopoly on Broadband as DSL only goes to 3/768 where my current Comcast connection goes up to 50/10.

Verizon is the dominant telco in much of the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic states with the exception of the areas they sold off to cut rate telcos.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina to 88615298

Member

to 88615298

Re: Are The Cited Comparisons Logical?

Well -- yes, there's certainly that point but I was only speaking to the strategy of softening cable's rate inflation by comparing it to other examples with higher inflation.

thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas to IowaCowboy

Premium Member

to IowaCowboy

Re: Cat food and cable TV rates

said by IowaCowboy:

I heard that Mediacom went downhill since I left CR.

well, when i first got mediacom ~4 years ago, we did not have a modem rental fee, did not pay extra for voice mail on phone, did not have bandwidth caps with overage fees, did not have an MTA rental fee (phone modem) and did not have a 3 strikes and your banned for life DMCA policy.

we have all of that now. and dont even get me started on the DVR rental fee's...
thedragonmas

thedragonmas to Os

Premium Member

to Os

Re: Comparing to Pet food is bad journalism

said by Os:

Some video providers have no interest in providing deals. I think this is largely a myth unless you live in a FiOS/u-Verse area.

The last time I called Atlantic Broadband to see what specials were available, they told me to drop my internet speed. I was paying $150+/month for TV, internet and phone, and I didn't even have a cable box.

about a year ago my promo on phone with mediacom expired, went from $10/mo to $50/mo, called them up and asked if they could put me back on the promo. answer? "no" told them if they didnt i would switch my phone service to another line on my cell phone and get voice mail included for just $10, could they match it, because once i did it i would "not" be switching back, the answer? "no"

a week later i was set up and ready to switch, called customer retention and explaind what i was going to do and wanted to know if they could put me back on the $10/mo promo. answer? "no" i asked them to note on my account right then that i would be porting out in 7 days as per notice requirement.

7 days later i ported my number out. one month later i start getting crap in the mail about coming back for $9.95/month for a year! even had a dude come to my door and ask me to get their phone service. told him exactly what i went thru and said hey, if you want to pay the $300 etf, and give me that $9.95 for 2 years as per my cell contract will talk, other wise, leave. he left.

point is, some companies dont want to do jack until you follow through on what you say youl do and frankly with all of the problems i had, i will "never" switch my phone back to mediacom.
XJakeX
join:2005-03-05
Coventry, RI

XJakeX

Member

The good old days

I remember the days when commercials alone paid for TV. The content providers and TV networks seemed to survive fine for 40 years under that model. Funny how we are still watching commercials with cable, and almost twice as many commercial minutes per hour, but also paying directly for the content.

Of course, the local providers deserve to be paid for stringing the wire to bring a clear picture to your house, but when more than half of your monthly TV bill and probably 95% of those bi annual increases goes to the TV networks, something has drastically changed.

Why do they keep increasing the cost? Because they can.

Internet video can supplement, but it will never replace the current structure. It's too clunky, too slow. There's none of that instant gratification you get from flipping through channels with the remote. No matter how fast Internet speeds get, it will never be the same loading videos as it is flipping from live channel to live channel. Besides, some of the same players are involved in both ends of the business, and what they have now is too much of a cash cow for both of them for either to want to upset the apple cart. Every now and then you read about a dispute between a TV network and a cable/telco/sat company about a rate increase, but it's all for show. They need each other too badly to be serious about it.

The only way you'll ever see a la carte is if the government mandates it, or the parent companies of the networks can find a way to make even more profit with it than without it. It'a a marriage made in heaven for the TV networks and the rebroadcasters.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

said by XJakeX:

Internet video can supplement, but it will never replace the current structure. It's too clunky, too slow. There's none of that instant gratification you get from flipping through channels with the remote. No matter how fast Internet speeds get, it will never be the same loading videos as it is flipping from live channel to live channel

You'd be surprised at how adaptive people can get when cable TV becomes cost-prohibitive. We had no choice but to drop cable TV because it simply became too expensive.

We use Netflix, off-air TV, and other online video sources for our TV viewing needs now. While it remains kludgy (especially with having to use an HTPC with a keyboard and mouse) we don't really miss being able to flip through channels.

kara
@comcast.net

kara

Anon

real world for smart people

You need food, electric, gas for car and roof over you head. You don't need tv it not a necessary. If can afford then cool if not don't waste the money on it. Learn to do other things in time off like read a book or get off the couch and live.
desarollo
join:2011-10-01
Monroe, MI

desarollo

Member

The Analysts Never Note Programming Content

Not once have the stock jocks noted the declining quality of cable TV programming. They seem to be mocking the consumer for sucking up the rate increases.

However, I think the consumer is starting to note the raunchy deal. More and more programming is crap reality shows (how many auction, pawn store, people digging through old stuff do we need?) and content that is low quality cheap nonsense.

It probably won't be the cost alone that will cause consumers to really question their cable bill because I think most are unwilling to part with watching TV. What will do it is when they're sitting in their chairs looking for something to watch and there isn't anything there but horrible programming laden with oppressive commercial loads that will make them cut the cord.

When South Park does a show about the bar being lowered in television programming, you know something is really wrong. The networks are doing it to themselves.
XJakeX
join:2005-03-05
Coventry, RI

1 recommendation

XJakeX to pnh102

Member

to pnh102

Re: The good old days

I went the same route 3 years ago when the digital changeover happened. 30 channels OTA(15 in Hi Def), Netflix, the hundreds of other options I get through the Roku, and an occasional Red Box rental are more than enough for me.

But I think those like us, while the number is growing, will always be a niche market. The number of amazingly misinformed people out there is astounding. When I mention to someone that I get my TV for free over the air, the inevitable response is either, "Oh, so you only get 4 or 5 channels?", or "Really? I thought all that over the air stuff disappeared in 2009." Two young guys from Verizon came to my house a week or so ago, peddling FIOS. When I told them I got my TV from an antenna, they said, "So you only get 10-12 channels, then." There's two guys trying to *sell* me pay TV who don't even know what the free competition offers.

As pay TV gets more expensive, more people will consider this option. But the 6 corporations that own or control all the TV channels will eventually reign in those increases when they feel the financial pinch of people deserting pay TV. They only raise the prices now because there's no real competition to stop them. Either that, or they will use their considerable influence and financial lobbying might to put an end to unencrypted broadcast signals, and stop selling TV shows to Netflix, making the non pay TV option much less attractive. The FCC has so far given this two headed oligopoly a free hand in how it runs the show, and it's taken full advantage of that.
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