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Comments on news posted 2012-10-09 09:43:53: The U.S. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Frightening

There's really no escape. Since we don't build anything here anymore and are designing less and less of it here, there is a real possibility of equipment being built that phones home and sends our sensitive data back home.

But I think it's just foolish to focus on just two companies.

Angrychair

join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

The humorous part is that the American government does exactly what they're accusing the Chinese government of doing - intercepting everything and allowing nothing to be private communication. I'm sure it's not a good idea for American interests to use Chinese gear that would spy on them, but for a small potato such as myself I'm not sure I see where it would matter for me.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to fifty nine
I was told by someone at the CTIA expo that if you wanted to provide service to Federal Agencies it was suggested that you steer clear of companies that may be influenced by foreign governments such as Huawei.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

There's really no escape. Since we don't build anything here anymore

If we did people would bitch about high prices. People want these factory jobs back in America at the old $25-$30 an hour wages with full pension and fully paid health care for life, but still want these goods at "made in China" prices. Not realistic.

No one will work for $8-$10 an hour for maybe a 6% match in a 401k( meaning the worker actually has to contribute to his own retirement god forbid ) and a health care plan that requires the worker to pay some of that cost and ends when he retires.

And even in that scenario costs of goods would go up.

Chubbysumo

join:2009-12-01
Superior, WI
Reviews:
·Charter

1 recommendation

reply to battleop
said by battleop:

I was told by someone at the CTIA expo that if you wanted to provide service to Federal Agencies it was suggested that you steer clear of companies that may be influenced by foreign governments such as Huawei.

This is quite literally the definition of fear mongering, and probably has its roots in AT&T and VZW. Why would they(the chinese) want to spy on a majority of the USA customers? Sure, there are a few targets of interest, but this "committee" would also have to extend this suggestion to mexican telecos and canadian telecos as well(rodgers is in the USA, as well as Tracphone/straightalk/net10 all being owned and operated out of mexico by Carlos Slim). Seriously, there is no more risk here than anywhere else, and this is just like what was done in the McCarthy days with communism. Its all just irrational fear of the unknown/don't personally likes, and they are trying to get the masses to follow the same thing. I say bullshit, since its the same risk of a producer of the equipment that US telecos use right now is mostly in china, if the chinese wanted to spy, they would already be doing it, since 99% of tech related stuff in the USA is MADE IN CHINA!!


n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

2 recommendations

reply to Angrychair
said by Angrychair:

The humorous part is that the American government does exactly what they're accusing the Chinese government of doing - intercepting everything and allowing nothing to be private communication. I'm sure it's not a good idea for American interests to use Chinese gear that would spy on them, but for a small potato such as myself I'm not sure I see where it would matter for me.

But it is okay for us to do it because we are the good guys and our motives are altruistic (SARCASM).

I read all 47 or so pages (skipped the footnotes) and while it paints a pretty scary picture, I do not see anything going on that we are not doing in conjunction with our Homeland Security Department and the NSA. It isn't much different than the secret rooms set up at various telco's to feed all data directly to the U.S. government.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

buckweet1980

join:2011-12-31
Allen, TX

China owns us

We come out against some of their companies, yet where is the outrage about how China owns the US.. We are so in debt to them right now.

Buy our debt please, but let it be known we want nothing to do with your countries companies.

Also don't these people realize that most electronics are made in Asia right now? Most software for the telecom companies are too!


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

1 recommendation

reply to Chubbysumo

Re: Frightening

"there are a few targets of interest,"

That's exactly it. If you have ever read about or watched some of the things the US did to the Russians during the cold war you would understand why they are cautious.

The Chinese government doesn't care about the average citizen but there is quite a reward in being able to sniff traffic that may contain data going to and from Obama's special Blackberry.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Chubbysumo
said by Chubbysumo:

Why would they(the chinese) want to spy on a majority of the USA customers?

Really? The Chinese aren't hiding their intentions with openly going after intellectual property and various technologies that will further their strategic progress. The Chinese are saving billions of dollars and several years in R&D. The more sensors the government has for gathering this information, the better.
said by Chubbysumo:

but this "committee" would also have to extend this suggestion to mexican telecos and canadian telecos as well(rodgers is in the USA, as well as Tracphone/straightalk/net10 all being owned and operated out of mexico by Carlos Slim).

Do they manufacture the equipment?
said by Chubbysumo:

if the chinese wanted to spy, they would already be doing it, since 99% of tech related stuff in the USA is MADE IN CHINA!!

Now you're catching on Our reliance on foreign designed/manufactured technology is becoming a risk to our national security. This will lead to more expensive goods as our owners/managers of critical infrastructure begin to be required to start leveraging trusted sources for hardware/software.


AnonFTW

@rr.com

FUD

This is pure FUD aimed at protecting American business interests. If the Chinese companies were really planting backdoors into their hardware, how difficult do you think it would be to detect? The new Apple A6 was torn down, completely dissected, and mapped out in a matter of days by hobby sites using decades old technology. It would be trivial for the government to determine if this was taking place.


nonamesleft

join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric
reply to 88615298

Re: Frightening

said by 88615298:

said by fifty nine:

There's really no escape. Since we don't build anything here anymore

If we did people would bitch about high prices. People want these factory jobs back in America at the old $25-$30 an hour wages with full pension and fully paid health care for life, but still want these goods at "made in China" prices. Not realistic.

No one will work for $8-$10 an hour for maybe a 6% match in a 401k( meaning the worker actually has to contribute to his own retirement god forbid ) and a health care plan that requires the worker to pay some of that cost and ends when he retires.

And even in that scenario costs of goods would go up.

That really is a bunch of crap, I have seen chinese products cost a lot more then made in usa products. Ever look how much a lamp made in china costs...Yeah its a lot! I bought a sealed 12 volt battery that was made in china 90 bucks! I was at fleetfarm last week, battery that almost has nearly the same specs just about 55 bucks! So china is really getting greedy!

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

1 recommendation

reply to n2jtx
Regardless of what you think, so far we're free to make such speculative critiques and even call our government names. Sure, there are certainly those in this country that would like to mitigate many of our constitutional freedoms but for now, we still enjoy that freedom. Contrast this with the likes of China and Iran.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to buckweet1980

Re: China owns us

Nah, China only holds a little over $1T (~7%) in US debt and Japan is about ready to own more than China. "We" hold a majority of the US debt.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to fifty nine

Re: Frightening

said by fifty nine:

There's really no escape. Since we don't build anything here anymore and are designing less and less of it here, there is a real possibility of equipment being built that phones home and sends our sensitive data back home.

But I think it's just foolish to focus on just two companies.

The real risk to be worried about isn't phoning home. It is that, in a time of war, a signal could be sent that would cause the Chinese built hardware to self destruct, thereby turning off a huge part of US communications infrastructure.
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to AnonFTW

Re: FUD

said by AnonFTW :

If the Chinese companies were really planting backdoors into their hardware, how difficult do you think it would be to detect?

Why do you think the IC is recommending US companies avoid some of these Chinese companies?


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL

Security logistics

I'm no security expert, but it seems to me that there's a bit of hype here.

Even with the rudimentary network knowlege that I do possess, I have to ask the following: Would a network operator (eg: Bell, VZW, AT&T) not know that information was being reported back to China? Network operators are usually pretty good at identifying traffic patterns in order manage their networks so why would this be any different?
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


AnonFTW

@rr.com
reply to openbox9

Re: FUD

said by openbox9:

said by AnonFTW :

If the Chinese companies were really planting backdoors into their hardware, how difficult do you think it would be to detect?

Why do you think the IC is recommending US companies avoid some of these Chinese companies?

To protect the revenues of American vendors. The US Telecom market is the most profitable (per ARPU) in the entire world. We don't want the Chinese moving in, slashing profit margins, and forcing the US companies to actually compete.

Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to nonamesleft

Re: Frightening

that's not china being greedy, that's would be your standard american business.

why lower prices when you can save money getting "made in china" then selling it at normal to high prices.

it's win/win for the business selling to the population.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to nonamesleft
The greed isn't all in China. When there's that kind of price disparity, it's probably at many layers between the Chinese slave and the ultimate consumer. For that reason, I believe there's a bit of truth to what both of you say (BF69 and you).

Would costs be different? Probably, but that depends on how much of these costs require labor. A lot of products can be manufactured by mechanized processes that don't need a lot of labor. Sure the labor that is needed would cost more here but the increase in those costs might be offset by time-to-market and paying to put it on a huge container ship.

Of course a factory here would have to follow a lot of EPA/OSHA rules and there's cost to that but that's where ultimate greed is revealed. While I'm sure there are probably some EPA rules that are too strict (or not strict enough), we have to manufacture stuff in a reasonably safe manner. It's just the right thing to do. However, since not everyone picks up after their own dog...I have my doubts.


LightS
Premium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX
reply to openbox9

Re: FUD

Exactly. Once a US company builds it, it might be less likely for the same hardware to be dissected.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
Huh?


LightS
Premium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX
I figure, once the stuff is built here, there may be a bit less uncertainty regarding spying techniques.

Basically, they may say, "Oh, well since it's built here, why dissect it? We trust 'em!"

Hope not, though. But you never know..


jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

2 recommendations

reply to fifty nine

Re: Frightening

said by fifty nine:

There's really no escape. Since we don't build anything here anymore ...

Bottom line, right there.

Until and unless the U.S. consumer (that incl. the government) is willing to pay the price of bringing manufacturing back to the U.S., we will be at the mercy of the governments of every one of these cheap labour countries.

Period.

Americans want to eat their cake and have it, too, as we did for decades. Those days are gone. We exported our technology and labour, and now the countries to which we did that a coming into their own. Now they're going to use what we so cavalierly gave away, and there's every reason to expect they'll use that to their advantage--just as we would were we in their position.

Jim

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to LightS

Re: FUD

Maybe a little less concern, but I imagine the reviews will still happen...especially for critical infrastructure hardware/software.


cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to buckweet1980

Re: China owns us

They don't own us. They have about 7-8% of our debt.

Backdoors on chips, circuits that aren't standard, remote disable and login, key logging, .... wait. Well. Hmmm.... we can also talk about poisoning of baby formula, pet food, lead poison in toys, Christmas lights.

The Chinese steal. Ask any college student during exams. And ask anyone that does manufacturing with them. (a joke about Bill Gates seeing a billion copies of Windows being sold to the Chinese was it only took one sale of Windows and 9,999,999,999 pirated copies). It is by their design. (ok, I am generalizing. But still, they do not respect treaties or nationals. Have you read about Ghana? Look up gold mining, chinese, guns, ghana...)

Just ask anyone in the Airforce about substandard parts failing made from other countries. How about the capacitor failures? That was corporate espionage that resulted in billions in damages (logicboards, powersupplies, power adapters, automotive, aerospace, appliance industry...). There are still many bad caps out there. Some up in satellites... And what nVidia and their bad GPUs? Etc...

Do you think ANY government would allow its citizens full privacy with communications? See Iridium.

We have freedom of speech but it appears not with any form of communications.

I just don't see how this is sustainable. Next up, Chinese-made cars that automatically accelerate ... wait, wasn't that a Japanese company (Lexus)... either learn mandarin and beat them at their game, or prepare for enslavement! Doom! Dooom! Dooooom!
--
Splat

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to 88615298

Re: Frightening

health care should not be part of the job. Now that can save costs as the factory will not need pay for health care.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

Afraid of competition?

I guess that depends on how we define competition. How much does each country subsidize their respective manufacturers? If there's a significant disparity, it's hard to call that competitive.

I'm not taking sides because the US does a lot of corporate welfare in the form of deductions that are designed to encourage certain behavior. If there's any truth to the presidential campaign rhetoric, some even believe the US subsidizes our manufacturers to outsource American jobs. I have no idea if that's true. I'm just throwing it out there because there's a widely-held belief that the Chinese government subsidizes their industry but the US isn't a completely free market either.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to AnonFTW

Re: FUD

Perhaps you missed what Carlos Slim is doing down in Mexico with profitability? This is about US companies purchasing foreign manufactured equipment, not foreign companies entering the US to compete with domestic service providers.

Chubbysumo

join:2009-12-01
Superior, WI
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to openbox9

Re: Frightening

said by openbox9:

said by Chubbysumo:

Why would they(the chinese) want to spy on a majority of the USA customers?

Really? The Chinese aren't hiding their intentions with openly going after intellectual property and various technologies that will further their strategic progress. The Chinese are saving billions of dollars and several years in R&D. The more sensors the government has for gathering this information, the better.
said by Chubbysumo:

but this "committee" would also have to extend this suggestion to mexican telecos and canadian telecos as well(rodgers is in the USA, as well as Tracphone/straightalk/net10 all being owned and operated out of mexico by Carlos Slim).

Do they manufacture the equipment?
said by Chubbysumo:

if the chinese wanted to spy, they would already be doing it, since 99% of tech related stuff in the USA is MADE IN CHINA!!

Now you're catching on Our reliance on foreign designed/manufactured technology is becoming a risk to our national security. This will lead to more expensive goods as our owners/managers of critical infrastructure begin to be required to start leveraging trusted sources for hardware/software.

Again, its 99% hype and maybe 1% truth. I would more worry about questionable smaller makers rather than larger ones, since the larger ones have to withstand more scrutiny, but, since most of the stuff we use here is made overseas, this report is nothing but fearmongering. I wonder what other company is trying to crush their competition?

Chubbysumo

join:2009-12-01
Superior, WI
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:

health care should not be part of the job. Now that can save costs as the factory will not need pay for health care.

Health care should be part of every job, just not fully funded by the company. Health care plans are an investment in your employees, knowing that 99% will likely never use it, and those that will, will use it to keep themselves healthy, which means they can work longer and more for you. What really needs to be investigated is the gross overcharging for health care that goes on in the USA. I looked at an itemized list from when I had surgery, and they(the place that did it) charged me $19 for a band-aid. that is why health care is so damn expensive. I could buy 3 boxes of the best on the market bandaids, yet I was charged $19 for a single one, please tell me you think that is just as outrageous as I do.