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Comments on news posted 2012-10-09 15:45:12: You'll recall that a few years ago it was leaked that the government and phone companies were working hand in hand on a warrantless domestic surveillance system that had little to no oversight, with AT&T employees revealing (pdf) all phone and data b.. ..

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ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
reply to Noah Vail

Re: November is coming

I'd be curious to see who was responsible for the original AT&T immunity bill and the evidence to back up that claim.



ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
Reviews:
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reply to KrK

said by KrK:

Well, that means you can't vote for Republicans or Democrats, so you have to vote for independents.

because all Republicans and Democrats were for it, right?


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
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1 recommendation

reply to ITALIAN926

Re: It's a sad day for America

said by ITALIAN926:

You know when else was a sad day? 9-11-2001

Yea, but today was the day the terrorists won.
--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.


woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
reply to ArrayList

Re: November is coming

shoooooosh it is a secret.........................
--
BlooMe



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

2 recommendations

reply to Noah Vail

Here's the full list:

FOR:

Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Barrasso (R-WY), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Coleman (R-MN), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
DeMint (R-SC), Yea
Dole (R-NC), Yea
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Obama (D-IL), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Sununu (R-NH), Yea
Thune (R-SD), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Yea

Against:

Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Biden (D-DE), Nay
Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Boxer (D-CA), Nay
Brown (D-OH), Nay
Byrd (D-WV), Nay
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
Cardin (D-MD), Nay
Clinton (D-NY), Nay
Dodd (D-CT), Nay
Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Harkin (D-IA), Nay
Kerry (D-MA), Nay
Klobuchar (D-MN), Nay
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Nay
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Nay
Menendez (D-NJ), Nay
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Reed (D-RI), Nay
Reid (D-NV), Nay
Sanders (I-VT), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Nay
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Tester (D-MT), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Nay

Not Voting:
Kennedy (D-MA), Not Voting
McCain (R-AZ), Not Voting
Sessions (R-AL), Not Voting

So in Summary:

ALL the Republicans and many of the Democrats, FOR.

A solid block of Democrats & an Independent (The Liberal Block, looks like) AGAINST.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini



Noah Vail
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reply to ArrayList

said by ArrayList:

I'd be curious to see who was responsible for the original AT&T immunity bill and the evidence to back up that claim.

I think that information might be on file.
--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
reply to Noah Vail

Re: It's a sad day for America

Hey, its a shame that they didnt implement these policies IN 2001. Or do you think the government cares about whether youre calling your Mom enough?



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to ArrayList

Re: November is coming

Not quite, many were.

The Liberal block of Democrats was fairly solid in opposition and continues to be the opposition to this.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini



Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
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reply to KrK

Both of mine from Florida voted for it.

Nelson was on a very short list of FL-D I supported.
As FL's Insurance Commissioner, he was sharp and very pro Floridian. As Senator, he made other choices.

*sigh* It's another choiceless election year.
--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.



WireHead
I drive to fast
Premium
join:2001-05-09
Muncie, IN

Not ME!! YOU!!

I wonder if the politicians and government agencies are dumb enough to believe that the same information isn't being collected on them. They probably are. It is. Even if there is a law passed against it I do not see it stopping. Once everyone has a video/mic in their home for teleconferencing it will be fine for them to remove view that as well.
--
Retired BBR Team Starfire Team Q III Host
Live by chance. Love by choice. Kill by profession.



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

1 recommendation

reply to Noah Vail

Re: November is coming

I have a very similar problem.

None of the parties represent my values, it's a mix. I'm always having to do the lesser of two evils, or which one sucks more.

I strongly identify with several "Conservative" ideals and several "Liberal" ones so I'm always pretty screwed when it comes to voting... LOL
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini



kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
reply to Noah Vail

Re: Huawei

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.



kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
reply to ArrayList

Re: We The People

Huh? Are you high? SC is definitely *NOT* the *law*, for sure.



Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
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reply to KrK

Re: November is coming

said by KrK:

The Liberal block of Democrats was fairly solid in opposition and continues to be the opposition to this.

But most of them were still spinning it as a telco tapping issue instead of an internet data dump.

It absolutely killed me to have to admit which Senators were honest about the issue.
--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Noah Vail

said by Noah Vail:

How many of us here are going to vote for PotUS/Senators/Reps who help bring this surveillance abomination to life?

Why are you telling us not to vote?


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to ArrayList

Re: We The People

SCOTUS is not the law, it only rules on Constitutionality of a law.



Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
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reply to ITALIAN926

Re: It's a sad day for America

said by ITALIAN926:

Hey, its a shame that they didnt implement these policies IN 2001. Or do you think the government cares about whether youre calling your Mom enough?

Do you think this was mostly about phone traffic? I'm beginning to think you get your news from the mainstream press.
--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.


kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
reply to KrK

Re: November is coming

Well said.


Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to KrK

said by KrK:

None of the parties represent my values, it's a mix.

That is true of just about everyone. However, you still have way to many lazy morons that will vote party line instead of doing their homework and voting for the ones that actually are more in line with their values.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Maybe it's because I live in Oklahoma, but around here, it's just not true. (The statement about it being a mix for most people.)



This is a sad joke, but it's very appropriate if you've ever been here.

How Oklahoma votes:

(R) behind name: All that is Good, anointed of God
(D) behind name: Everything wrong with the country, agents of Satan

/sigh

Ok maybe that's a bit of overkill, but the it's been going that way for years and continues to grow worse... Hell it can cost your job if you speak up to counter some of the pure BS that everyone always spreads back and forth. Great, eh?

--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to ITALIAN926

Re: It's a sad day for America

Yes, so with that in mind we should all voluntarily give all personal information: fingerprints, DNA, Retina scans, handwriting samples along with allowing any all communications and actions fully traced, tracked and data dumped by the US government. Just to make sure some moron(s) doesnt kill a couple thousand people.

News flash, the US government has killed more innocent US citizens through their actions then ALL terriorist groups combined.



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to MaynardKrebs

The rule of law is not dead.... it's getting more rigid and controlling by the day.

What's dying is the idea of freedom and individual liberty.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini



Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1
reply to WHT

Re: We The People

Now it's up to congress to change it.

Seeing how they're jointly paid by both the government and the telecos, I doubt anything will happen.



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
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reply to Skippy25

Re: It's a sad day for America

How bout an Atomic bomb? Would that be enough reason? If you dont think these maniacs will eventually get their hands of the ingredients, youre in denial.

Our Bill of Rights was written a long time ago. Before planes, before skyscrapers, before the discovery of nuclear fission. When it was written, warfare consisted of a thousand men lining up face to face, and shoot cooridinated single shots on command. Times a changin.



Rogue Wolf
Mourns the Loss of lilhurricane

join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY
reply to Mike

Re: We The People

Oh, I'm sure something will happen. Unfortunately my Magic 8-Ball only comes up with "it'll just get worse".

Best government (corporate lobbyist) money can buy....
--
I may have been born yesterday, but I've spent all afternoon downtown.



ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
reply to Noah Vail

Re: November is coming

a google search != what I asked for.



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to WireHead

Re: Not ME!! YOU!!

said by WireHead:

I wonder if the politicians and government agencies are dumb enough to believe that the same information isn't being collected on them. They probably are. It is. Even if there is a law passed against it I do not see it stopping. Once everyone has a video/mic in their home for teleconferencing it will be fine for them to remove view that as well.

Every politician that has ever run for a gov't office knows that they are monitored by gov't, the press, opposing political party, special interest groups, etc. It is not surprising most have no problem with this, being the reality of their own life being monitored by everyone.
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
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Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

reply to ITALIAN926

Re: It's a sad day for America

First, they havent been able to do it yet in the last 50 years and this huge infringement on our rights just started.

Second, concerns with that are with foreigners and the thing we are discussing here are US Citizens being violated. Big difference there chief.

Third, how do you think this is going to apply when "we the people" get tired of our government and want to do a wholesale replacement of it? Even legally, there is nothing from stopping them for interfering with that and there is absolutely no oversight to prevent that from happening.

Fourth, the big issue isnt that they do it. It is that they illegally do it without accountability. I am perfectly fine with any agency going to a member of the judicial branch and requesting a warrant for any and all invasions of privacy. If they have the evidence and facts needed to convince a judge or panel of judges that it is needed then they should certainly do it.

Fifth, Those Bill of Rights you just crapped on are there to protect all of us, including morons that want to crap on them, from the very far reaching and powerful hand of the US Government and they were put there because power and greed corrupts and without a doubt that is shown every day in this nation of ours.

Sixth, There has to be checks and balances in every branch of the government for the very reasons I pointed above (power and greed). Our founding fathers knew this 200+ years ago and it was true then just as it is even more so true now. You may want to give up all those checks and balances and allow unsuppressed power and greed throughout the US government for the little security you get from it, however, you do not speak for me and you are not a majority.



Noah Vail
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said by Skippy25:

First,...

Second, ...

Third, ...

Fourth, ...

Fifth, ...

Sixth, ...

I concur.
--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
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Lorton, VA
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·Bright House
reply to ArrayList

Re: November is coming

said by ArrayList:

a google search != what I asked for.

You're funny.
--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.