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Comments on news posted 2012-10-15 10:40:22: Leaked documents suggest that AT&T will begin their "six strikes" entertainment-industry anti-piracy campaign starting on November 28. ..


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

2 recommendations

Simple way to avoid copyright issues

If it's copyrighted, pay for it and download it from a legitimate source such as iTunes or Netflix.

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.
--
I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town).

seamore
Premium
join:2009-11-02

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by IowaCowboy:

If it's copyrighted, pay for it and download it from a legitimate source such as iTunes or Netflix.

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.

But what if it's not avail. on said sites?

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by seamore:

said by IowaCowboy:

If it's copyrighted, pay for it and download it from a legitimate source such as iTunes or Netflix.

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.

But what if it's not avail. on said sites?

Listen to or watch something else??
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/

seamore
Premium
join:2009-11-02

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by FFH:

said by seamore:

said by IowaCowboy:

If it's copyrighted, pay for it and download it from a legitimate source such as iTunes or Netflix.

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.

But what if it's not avail. on said sites?

Listen to or watch something else??

yea, OK

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
so helpful.
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX
said by FFH:

Listen to or watch something else??

Be careful what you wish for...

This is exactly the kind of thing that should scare the shit out of the MPAA and RIAA.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by Kamus:

said by FFH:

Listen to or watch something else??

Be careful what you wish for...

This is exactly the kind of thing that should scare the shit out of the MPAA and RIAA.

I agree with you. Most people who pirate stuff would not be buying the content legitimately to begin with. Even if this system "worked," it won't result in significant numbers of people buying content... so who will the content industry blame next for faltering sales?
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by pnh102:

Most people who pirate stuff would not be buying the content legitimately to begin with.

That's not true and you're just stereotyping people.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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San Jose, CA
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Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by 88615298:

said by pnh102:

Most people who pirate stuff would not be buying the content legitimately to begin with.

That's not true and you're just stereotyping people.

Can anybody cite studies on this, demonstrating that one, or the other is true?

I personally know someone who would pirate music as a "try-before-buy" exercise. After listening, they deleted. Then either bought, if they liked it, or not. Probably not typical, but absent any study, how do we know what is typical?

I pirated anime back in the day, because NA releases were few. Now damned near every anime show finds its way here, so piracy is more trouble than it's worth.

OTOH, I have contributed to the decline in RIAA member's revenues; just not through piracy. I only have a limited amount of money to spend on music, and I switched from domestic production to offshore. The soundtrack recording from, (Vampire Miyu, cost twice what the soundtrack recording of, Buffy the Vampire Slayer cost. But given the choice between two RIAA music albums and one Japanese album, I chose to stick it to the RIAA.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by NormanS:

said by 88615298:

said by pnh102:

Most people who pirate stuff would not be buying the content legitimately to begin with.

That's not true and you're just stereotyping people.

Can anybody cite studies on this, demonstrating that one, or the other is true?

If the content owners would change it's way of doing business I'm sure they can increase sales and reduce piracy. It was proven that Netflix was reducing piracy then the content owners decided it was good idea to try to kill Netflix and Redbox.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
said by NormanS:

Can anybody cite studies on this, demonstrating that one, or the other is true?

I agree that my post is reasoned speculation, but I certainly do not buy for a second the content industry's claim that every instance of piracy is equal to a lost sale.
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by pnh102:

said by NormanS:

Can anybody cite studies on this, demonstrating that one, or the other is true?

I agree that my post is reasoned speculation, but I certainly do not buy for a second the content industry's claim that every instance of piracy is equal to a lost sale.

Nor is every lost sale due to piracy.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by pnh102:

said by NormanS:

Can anybody cite studies on this, demonstrating that one, or the other is true?

I agree that my post is reasoned speculation, but I certainly do not buy for a second the content industry's claim that every instance of piracy is equal to a lost sale.

I may never intend on paying $8 to see a movie at the local theater. So the theater isn't losing a sale by me sneaking in. That however doesn't give me the right to sneak in because I feel the price is too high and I don't want to pay it.
en103

join:2011-05-02

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

You 'can' pay for 'on-Demand' or wait until it comes on Blu-Ray/DVD at the local RedBox.

There are legal alternatives.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
said by 88615298:

I may never intend on paying $8 to see a movie at the local theater. So the theater isn't losing a sale by me sneaking in.

That's not what the content industry is arguing.

They are claiming that everyone who sneaks into the theater or otherwise watches the movie illegitimately would have paid the $11 ($8? Nice!) for a ticket to watch the movie, if there was simply enough incentive to do so.
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by pnh102:

said by 88615298:

I may never intend on paying $8 to see a movie at the local theater. So the theater isn't losing a sale by me sneaking in.

That's not what the content industry is arguing.

They are claiming that everyone who sneaks into the theater or otherwise watches the movie illegitimately would have paid the $11 ($8? Nice!) for a ticket to watch the movie, if there was simply enough incentive to do so.

You're missing my point. My reluctance to pay doesn't not give me a right to that content.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by 88615298:

You're missing my point. My reluctance to pay doesn't not give me a right to that content.

I'm not claiming it does.

Me personally, I agree that copyrights must be respected by all, but I don't think that my ISP subscriber fees should be financing that effect, especially when I have to prove that I am innocent of such infringement should I get one of these love notes. As a paying customer, I am the boss, and it is my ass that should be kissed by the vendor, not the other way around.

If content owners wish to go after those who infringe on their work, there exist plenty of existing legal vehicles for them to go do that.
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.

Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable
said by 88615298:

said by pnh102:

said by NormanS:

Can anybody cite studies on this, demonstrating that one, or the other is true?

I agree that my post is reasoned speculation, but I certainly do not buy for a second the content industry's claim that every instance of piracy is equal to a lost sale.

I may never intend on paying $8 to see a movie at the local theater. So the theater isn't losing a sale by me sneaking in. That however doesn't give me the right to sneak in because I feel the price is too high and I don't want to pay it.

$8???? My local threader is $14 for an adult 3D movie and $11 for 2D.

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
said by NormanS:

said by 88615298:

said by pnh102:

Most people who pirate stuff would not be buying the content legitimately to begin with.

That's not true and you're just stereotyping people.

Can anybody cite studies on this, demonstrating that one, or the other is true?

Ever heard of iTunes? Or the insanely rising sales of online video sales? Or are we ignoring those quite easily seen options?

Good products with Good values and Good selections MAKE MONEY HAND-IN-FIST.

Of course, we usually get a half-assed try with most online sources and then those who cant find their stuff ANYWHERE (like me) end up pirating it.

Want me to buy it? Put it up. I buy everything I can legally.
slckusr
Premium
join:2003-03-17
Greenville, SC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Charter
said by pnh102:

said by Kamus:

said by FFH:

Listen to or watch something else??

Be careful what you wish for...

This is exactly the kind of thing that should scare the shit out of the MPAA and RIAA.

I agree with you. Most people who pirate stuff would not be buying the content legitimately to begin with. Even if this system "worked," it won't result in significant numbers of people buying content... so who will the content industry blame next for faltering sales?

I just recently downloaded an album to see if it was any good, few days later I paid for a lesser quality version of what I downloaded. /shrug

seamore
Premium
join:2009-11-02

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by slckusr:

I just recently downloaded an album to see if it was any good, few days later I paid for a lesser quality version of what I downloaded. /shrug

Sadly, some would say "too bad."

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by seamore:

said by slckusr:

I just recently downloaded an album to see if it was any good, few days later I paid for a lesser quality version of what I downloaded. /shrug

Sadly, some would say "too bad."

That's directed towards me and is in fact have nothing to do with what I said. Your comment is stupid.

Shadow01
Premium
join:2003-10-24
Wasteland

1 recommendation

said by pnh102:

said by Kamus:

said by FFH:

Listen to or watch something else??

Be careful what you wish for...

This is exactly the kind of thing that should scare the shit out of the MPAA and RIAA.

I agree with you. Most people who pirate stuff would not be buying the content legitimately to begin with. Even if this system "worked," it won't result in significant numbers of people buying content... so who will the content industry blame next for faltering sales?

I like the way you think... The chances of me ever buying a Ferrari are about zero. That should make it ok for me to steal one. At least they get the advertising from me driving it around. I didn't hurt their sales since I wasn't buying in the first place.
--
»the53.tumblr.com/
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

1 recommendation

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by Shadow01:

I like the way you think... The chances of me ever buying a Ferrari are about zero. That should make it ok for me to steal one. At least they get the advertising from me driving it around. I didn't hurt their sales since I wasn't buying in the first place.

That's cool, and when you get a Ferrari, can you please get your sister, mom, friends, Girlfriend and me one too so they can get to know the brand and maybe support them in an upcoming race?

Oh wait, you can't make copies of cars, so your analogy is crap.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by Kamus:

said by Shadow01:

I like the way you think... The chances of me ever buying a Ferrari are about zero. That should make it ok for me to steal one. At least they get the advertising from me driving it around. I didn't hurt their sales since I wasn't buying in the first place.

That's cool, and when you get a Ferrari, can you please get your sister, mom, friends, Girlfriend and me one too so they can get to know the brand and maybe support them in an upcoming race?

Oh wait, you can't make copies of cars, so your analogy is crap.

The way he presented the analogy is wrong (and crap) but if you fix it, it makes more sense...

If I get my friends permission to take apart his Ferrari and copy every piece in my workshop, then I put my parts together to make an exact replica of his car, have I somehow STOLEN something? Did my friend (or Ferrari) lose one of their cars? No. You could certainly argue that Ferrari lost the possibility of selling me one of theirs but is that theft? People make copies of products for their own personal use all the time and no one ever thinks it is stealing. It isn't until they start to sell them that they are going to run into morally questionable territory.

The entire concept of 'You stole my intellectual property because you are using it for your own personal use without paying me' is utterly ridiculous. I fully suspect that RIAA/MPAA/Wiley will soon start demanding that libraries charge patrons for the use of the material and send them the money... after all, no one could argue that libraries don't also cost them lost sales.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 recommendation

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by CXM_Splicer:

If I get my friends permission to take apart his Ferrari and copy every piece in my workshop, then I put my parts together to make an exact replica of his car, have I somehow STOLEN something? Did my friend (or Ferrari) lose one of their cars? No. You could certainly argue that Ferrari lost the possibility of selling me one of theirs but is that theft? People make copies of products for their own personal use all the time and no one ever thinks it is stealing. It isn't until they start to sell them that they are going to run into morally questionable territory.

Didn't you steal this idea from Johnny Cash?
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
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NYC
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Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by pnh102:

Didn't you steal this idea from Johnny Cash?

No, I only borrowed it... I SWEAR!

PaulHikeS2

join:2003-03-06
Manchester, NH
said by CXM_Splicer:

The way he presented the analogy is wrong (and crap) but if you fix it, it makes more sense...

If I get my friends permission to take apart his Ferrari and copy every piece in my workshop, then I put my parts together to make an exact replica of his car, have I somehow STOLEN something? Did my friend (or Ferrari) lose one of their cars? No. You could certainly argue that Ferrari lost the possibility of selling me one of theirs but is that theft? People make copies of products for their own personal use all the time and no one ever thinks it is stealing. It isn't until they start to sell them that they are going to run into morally questionable territory.

The entire concept of 'You stole my intellectual property because you are using it for your own personal use without paying me' is utterly ridiculous. I fully suspect that RIAA/MPAA/Wiley will soon start demanding that libraries charge patrons for the use of the material and send them the money... after all, no one could argue that libraries don't also cost them lost sales.

So...your example is analagous to borrowing your friends music recording, listening to it and performing each part yourself (or hiring professional musicians to do it), recording it, mastering it and producing it, then making a copy of your recording for your personal use and nothing else. Don't really see any problem with that as you're returning the original without keeping a duplicate for your personal use. As that would be copyright infringement which is illegal assuming it's a copyrighted recording.
--
Jay: What the @#$% is the internet???
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
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Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by PaulHikeS2:

So...your example is analagous to borrowing your friends music recording, listening to it and performing each part yourself (or hiring professional musicians to do it), recording it, mastering it and producing it, then making a copy of your recording for your personal use and nothing else. Don't really see any problem with that as you're returning the original without keeping a duplicate for your personal use. As that would be copyright infringement which is illegal assuming it's a copyrighted recording.
...
Of course it's not "theft" or "stealing".

I have no problem with you modifying the analogy a little as long as my recorded performance is a bit-by-bit identical copy of the original... glad you agree with me that there is no problem

Incidentally, since I am using my own electricity to create the 'recorded bits' onto my hard drive, there is little difference between what you describe and copying.

quote:
If you think distribution of copyrighted material is OK, well that's fine, but it's still illegal.

I don't think anyone here is arguing to the contrary.

PaulHikeS2

join:2003-03-06
Manchester, NH

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

I compared you actually manufacturing the Ferrari in your garage to "manufacturing" music meaning actually performing and recording the music. It would be almost the same, but not identical, just like your Ferrari example. A more accurate analogy, but altogether different than a bit by bit idenical copy.

A bit by bit idenical copy in my opinion would fall under distribution which is copyright infringement.
--
Jay: What the @#$% is the internet???
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
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1 recommendation

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by PaulHikeS2:

I compared you actually manufacturing the Ferrari in your garage to "manufacturing" music meaning actually performing and recording the music. It would be almost the same, but not identical, just like your Ferrari example. A more accurate analogy, but altogether different than a bit by bit idenical copy.

Then you are breaking the analogy to better suit your argument since you know that's not what happens with copyright infringement. If you want a better analogy, you have to go past the physical limitation of not being able to 'create' a perfectly identical copy of something (which copying a file does).

To better the analogy, consider the Star Trek transporter. If you turn off the dematerialize feature and simply scan the physical object and create an identical copy using only pure energy then you will have a better mechanism for describing copyright infringement.

So now the questions become: If I scan my friend's Ferrari and 'create' another one, have I stolen anything? What if I create 20 Ferraris and give them to my friends? What if I run off a few dozen and open up a lot to sell them? If you want to insist that I am stealing something, please tell me exactly what it is I am stealing.

One has to delve deep into science fiction to come up with a scenario that properly compares copyright infringement to shoplifting... that's why the comparison is completely absurd. When you actually DO a proper comparison, almost no one would have a problem with making a copy of a friend's Ferrari for his/her personal use; there is NOTHING WRONG with it. If/when such a Santa Clause machine is invented and everyone has one, what should we do... tightly regulate its use to make sure business doesn't change? Or would it be time to rethink the way products are created & distributed.

You seem to keep going back to a legal definition of Copyright Infringement; I don't know if you read the whole thread or not but it was about comparing copyright infringement to shoplifting.

Morac
Cat god

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Riverside, NJ
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Reviews:
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Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by CXM_Splicer:

So now the questions become: If I scan my friend's Ferrari and 'create' another one, have I stolen anything? What if I create 20 Ferraris and give them to my friends? What if I run off a few dozen and open up a lot to sell them? If you want to insist that I am stealing something, please tell me exactly what it is I am stealing.

Technically you would be devalueing Ferraris in general based on the principals of supply and demand.

This episode of the Duck Tales cartoon actually does a good job explaining this:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_LWQQrp···a_player

--
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
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1 recommendation

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

quote:
Technically you would be devalueing Ferraris in general based on the principals of supply and demand.

Yes, definitely. And I am sure Ferrari would be pissed about it and stamp their feet and shout 'You STOLE that Ferrari!!' But people would laugh at such a ridiculous accusation.

That was a great video, I loved the part with George thinking of the turkey! I think it is 100% true but we should take it a little deeper... Mr. McDuck correctly states that duplicating the money will ruin the economy. The thing is, if they really had a Multiphonic Duplicator, it wouldn't ruin the economy... it would render it OBSOLETE. People would have no need to duplicate money... they would simply duplicate the commodity. The economy would simply disappear as people duplicated all the food, clothes, houses, cars, computers, whatever they needed. The people who provided those commodities in the past for a profit might resent their loss of power & position and demand legislation to limit the duplication of commodities. So we would have corporations trying to force us to keep using the old, obsolete model because they found it more profitable.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
said by Shadow01:

I like the way you think... The chances of me ever buying a Ferrari are about zero. That should make it ok for me to steal one. At least they get the advertising from me driving it around. I didn't hurt their sales since I wasn't buying in the first place.

Did I say it was OK to steal something simply because you couldn't or wouldn't buy that thing?

I am simply disagreeing with the idea that every incident of piracy is a "lost sale."
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.
Trencher

join:2007-02-12
Etobicoke, ON
Oh ya?... Taken from this exact site.... Totally destroys your argument.

»thenextweb.com/media/2012/10/15/···erparts/

•••

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
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AA169|170
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Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
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Then you aren't going to have a problem from the MPAA/RIAA. No one is going to bother to enforce copyright in a market they aren't engaged in.

Meanwhile people want this stuff for a reason. If you are enjoying it, you should pay for it, support the artists, actors and companies that are putting it together.
MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by skeechan:

Meanwhile people want this stuff for a reason. If you are enjoying it, you should pay for it, support the artists, actors and companies that are putting it together.

If the bands & actors had a DONATE (or an I FEEL REALLY BAD ABOUT PIRATING YOUR STUFF AND WANT TO GO LEGIT) button on their websites, I'd do that.

That said, I've never pirated.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
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AA169|170
kudos:2

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

I'm sure your employer would love to "donate" to your paycheck.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by seamore:

said by IowaCowboy:

If it's copyrighted, pay for it and download it from a legitimate source such as iTunes or Netflix.

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.

But what if it's not avail. on said sites?

too bad.

seamore
Premium
join:2009-11-02

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by 88615298:

said by seamore:

said by IowaCowboy:

If it's copyrighted, pay for it and download it from a legitimate source such as iTunes or Netflix.

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.

But what if it's not avail. on said sites?

too bad.

and that's exactly how it feel towards the RIAA/MPAA when i can not legally get a copy of something. Too bad for therm.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by seamore:

and that's exactly how it feel towards the RIAA/MPAA

does it put the lotion on the skin too?
Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06
I tried to follow your advice, but neither even tells you what resolution you are buying. They are scam artists and thieves compared to honest pirates.

•••••••
kmg90

join:2002-08-25
Shawano, WI
What if buying from the legit sources leads you to spending money on a product you have no absolute control of whether or not it will work or not...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkL-w1lDY2c


»www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/07···am-sale/

Who's stealing from whom when the customer is unable to enjoy the products they legally and legitimately paid for?

•••••••••

MOWAA

join:2010-03-25
Fort Lauderdale, FL
said by IowaCowboy:

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.

While your position is quite admirable, I doubt many online users feel that digital acts of theft are actually criminal.. Its the new modern Robin Hood story.

Plus can you name off a Criminal case involving jail time or probation involving digital theft of copyrighted music or video, applications or such? Id love to read those cases.

Remember without criminal penalties to backup the theft.. the civil aspects are pointless as nearly every form of a financial judgment against you in America with the exception of government imposed judgments can be eliminated via bankruptcy.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

To take it one step further, downloading is not even pursued civilly... only uploading. So there is a logical disconnect between the concept of 'downloading = shoplifting' argument and the way it is dealt with in court. A person who rips a CD and makes it available to others hasn't 'stolen' anything... all he/she did was piss off the record company because they think they would have made more money if the person didn't make it freely available.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
illegal downloading is not theft in any way. theft requires loss of an item. call it what it is, copyright infringement. and the infringer is not the person downloading it. the infringer is the person supplying it.

••••••••••••••••

jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:3
Downloading is not theft and is not copyright infringement and is not illegal. Publicly sharing copyrighted content can be illegal.

Get your facts straight.

••••••

firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

1 recommendation

What about half the web pages you visit that contain copyrighted photos that are used without permission? Are you prepared to suffer some strikes because you are downloading those images to your computer?
--
Say no to astroturfing. actions > Ignore Author
en103

join:2011-05-02

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

I agree with your stance.
If I stream the news - how do I know if I'm the images that I'm watching are legal?
If I'm listening to Shoutcast, how do I know if I'm listening to a 'pirate' radio (it may not be from the US).
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
said by IowaCowboy:

If it's copyrighted, pay for it and download it from a legitimate source such as iTunes or Netflix.

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.

I pay for cable, so how is it theft if I download copies of network TV shows?

•••••

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

1 recommendation

said by IowaCowboy:

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.

You need to rewrite your book.

• If I download illegally, I deprive the IP owner of income only, not real property. If I just don't buy it, I also deprive the IP owner of income without depriving him of real property. So what is "similar" to theft about downloading? Or am I a thief for not buying?

• It is between difficult and impossible to catch downloaders. Ever hear of a court case against a Usenet downloader? Only against BitTorrent users; whom are caught distributing (uploading).

Don't misunderstand; I realize that copyright violation is both a civil, and a criminal offense. But IP piracy is similar to theft in the same way that apples are similar to oranges.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

••••••••

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

2 recommendations

said by IowaCowboy:

If it's copyrighted, pay for it and download it from a legitimate source such as iTunes or Netflix.

Holy shit! Why hasn't anyone mentioned this before? I mean, it's such an easy solution! It's gotta work.

Now that we have that one out of the way, lets tackle some of the other issues with simple way to avoid...
...affordable health care issues - Don't get sick
...abortion issues - Don't get pregnant
...unemployment issues - Get a job
...national debt issues - Pay off our loans
...world peace issues - Stop fighting

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
I'd be interested in seeing a study of how many people that illegally down are also on some for of government assistance compared to the rest of the population. It seems those that justify it have a sense of entitlement. And I suspect people with a sense of entitlement tend to get entitlements. Let's face it if one is going to illegally download a movie you can rent from RedBox for $1.20 well that's being really cheap.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

1 recommendation

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by 88615298:

I'd be interested in seeing a study of how many people that illegally down are also on some for of government assistance compared to the rest of the population.

Now who is stereotyping!
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by NormanS:

said by 88615298:

I'd be interested in seeing a study of how many people that illegally down are also on some for of government assistance compared to the rest of the population.

Now who is stereotyping!

I'm not stereotyping because I never said ALL people that illegally download are on government assistance. Besides I just said I'd like to see a study. That study could go one way or the other. You have an issue with research?
Mordhem
Love it, Hate it.

join:2003-07-10
Baltimore, MD
said by IowaCowboy:

If it's copyrighted, pay for it and download it from a legitimate source such as iTunes or Netflix.

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.

Yes do what this man says, also don't forget to do like him and when you sit on it rotate make sure you have a smile for all those poor people waiting in food lines because you have shared a file and sharing is and always has been stealing!!! BTW IowaCowboy can you please make sure to share your book with us in the torrent community because I can tell you from my own personal experience I have been losing sleep over it and I just don't know what to do!

•••
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

I see dead people...

I see dead people... they don't know they're dead.

So basically the MPAA and RIAA now spy on your browsing activity and everybody is OK with it?

I have to say, watching them slowly die would be hilarious if it wasn't so damn shady.
And not only that, but they even have tax payers picking up the tab on a lot of their war on copy & paste.

MooJohn

join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Windstream

1 recommendation

What is the cost of accusation?

If a customer has to pay $35 to contest it, shouldn't the accuser have to pay $35 for every IP accused of infringing?

I've said it before: why do we accept the word of any interested party when it comes to who is infringing? We wouldn't believe them if they claimed to spin straw into gold so why would we take a list of IPs based on their word?

You can't supply the court a list of license plate numbers and say "All these cars were speeding this morning. Cite the owners!"
--
John M - Cranky network guy
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: What is the cost of accusation?

said by MooJohn:

I've said it before: why do we accept the word of any interested party when it comes to who is infringing? We wouldn't believe them if they claimed to spin straw into gold so why would we take a list of IPs based on their word?

You can't supply the court a list of license plate numbers and say "All these cars were speeding this morning. Cite the owners!"

Because everyone must bow down to the Church of Copyright. Infringement is the new heresy and it must be stamped out at all costs or the world will descent into chaos!!!
kshusker

join:2009-10-12

ISPs as police never ends well

A lousy idea. Not sure why a company like AT&T (and any other ISP) would spend money to set up a system like this (and it can't be cheap).

The RIAA and MPAA are basically offloading their enforcement to the ISP (and never mind that an IP address isn't proof of anything).

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL

Re: ISPs as police never ends well

it's worth it if you can make money on it.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
Reviews:
·Comcast

why is AT&T responsible?

read the image. "Customers are responsible for how their high-speed internet connection is used..."

so, let me get this straight, customer is responsible for how it is used and AT&T gets to decide how you get to use it?

talk about anti-trust.

osrk

@cox.net

VPNs FTW

time to move to encrypted vpn's. $5 a month to protect me from a walled garden of delights what a deal!

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Re: VPNs FTW

Exactly. Pirates will always find a way, usually a very easy way.

jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:3

What exactly happens?

Does my browsing activity get redirected or does my whole internet connection get redirected?

It would really suck for AT&T if they purposely redirected VOIP traffic and someone couldn't call 911 in an emergency.
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

Re: What exactly happens?

I'm sure a lawsuit will clear that up when someone dies.

A few years ago (3) TWC did this to me. Since my CM was behind a router I had to call TWC and call an outage. There was no redirect. Hopefully they have smartened up since then. They said they sent me an email (oh yeah I read that TWC email all day).

Sad thing is that they shut me off for something I hadn't even done.

This whole Napoleonic $35 fee guilty until proven innocent is why the US ditched imperial powers, and now we are back to European rule or law. Great way to go back to the dark ages.

Message to copyright whores: Make your content easy to get, easy to use, and priced reasonably.

The success of Netflix and the decrease of piracy is direct demonstration of that. A vast majority of people would transact in legal means if a competitive and free exchange is in operation. And that means DRM and the derivatives are crap.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
said by jjoshua:

Does my browsing activity get redirected or does my whole internet connection get redirected?

It would really suck for AT&T if they purposely redirected VOIP traffic and someone couldn't call 911 in an emergency.

Depends on where the VPN is implemented in your setup. If the VPN is through your computer, and you have a separate VoIP adapter, then no. But if you use a softphone then yes. If your VPN is setup at your router, then yes as well.

I_H8_Spam

join:2004-03-10
St Catharines, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

Again the giants lag behind

So the CCI sniffs out IP's from public trackers and maybe some compromised private trackers. Bulks the warning emails to AT&T and others, once your strike tally counts up your walled.

So VPN to an offshore server, and connect to your tracker. Seem's easy enough to counter.
--
AFK: Attack, fight, kill!! The healer is telling you to go pull mobs.
WTF: Way to fight! The healer is applauding your tactical genius
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

Re: Again the giants lag behind

You have to be careful here. There is nothing preventing the VPN providers from providing logs to said enforcement squads. So if your VPN provider has a US POP, expect them to cave upon subpoena. And a lot of these guys SAY they have no logs, and Swiss based ones are not safe.

With that said this six strikes plan is just going to make people more sophisticated and the game of whack a mole continues. What I don't like is how can you control everyone that has access in your house 100% of the time. I mean my kids are briefed on security, however they are still kids and take the most expedient route...

I use my VPN daily to hide my browsing habits and to secure public wifi. I actually went to a hotel last month that blocked anything except openvpn (you can muck w/ ports). Obviously to sell your browsing habits.... So now I ditched my ipad for a Nexus 7 because I can use openvpn pretty easily without having to get Cydia.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

Re: Again the giants lag behind

said by elefante72:

You have to be careful here. There is nothing preventing the VPN providers from providing logs to said enforcement squads. So if your VPN provider has a US POP, expect them to cave upon subpoena. And a lot of these guys SAY they have no logs, and Swiss based ones are not safe.

So at best you are protected, and at worst you are no different then not having it to begin with.

axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Apropos?



Oleg
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL
kudos:2

copyright infringement messages on some sites

Lately i have seen messages form file sharing sites. When i was trying to download Copyrighted material. I was presented with a message like " This file is blocked as requested by RIAA".
en103

join:2011-05-02
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 recommendation

Companies should be going after the hoster, not the end user

Blaming the users for 'hearing' and 'viewing' content items that are on the internet is no different than listening to radio or TV. The main exception is that content is being put out there that may be gray market or even illegal. So what happens - Corporations/ISP/MPAA/RIAA go after those that are viewing/listening to it. The don't go after those that are pushing the content.

If I go to a concert in a park, and listen to music and see video on the screen - do I know if royalties been paid for ?

•••
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

not needed..

it seems that AT&T's plan on censorship is to cap and overcharge and then limit what you can download... Hmm...
good luck with selling service that way..
not since the 1940s have personal liberties been so facistly limited..
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

2 edits

Re: not needed..

An At&t subscriber agrees not to commit copyright infringement as per their terms of service. I don't think upholding the terms of service that a person openly agrees to with an extremely lenient policy is limiting a person's personal liberties.

If they told you that you would receive a strike every time you used Twitter or Amazon or DSLReports, then your personal liberties would be limited. But getting a slap on the wrist for violating federal copyright law, violating a company's terms of service, and most likely breaching your contract if you agree in your contract to not violate the terms of service.... A 6 strikes policy almost seems generous.

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

Also, when will we get another price

increase for AT&T to put this service together? We will probably be told that the fee increase is yet another "great thing for the consumer" as it "gives consumers more choices"

When asked what choices it gave consumers?

Well, we never actually get that far to start with

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
Reviews:
·CenturyLink

I don't care about this issue anymore

All I want is an encrypted business type VPN that hooks into a server in the UK so I can watch streaming television on the BBC, Channel4, and NatGeo UK. Right now I am trying to decide which service to use. I am only interested in Documentary TV from the UK shows like Time Team are not aired in the States. There is no point in downloading a TV show I can watch on demand without taking up HD space. As for music the stuff I am interested is not to be found on a bit-torrent site. I wish iTunes was setup like Amazon, if you have an account on Amazon USA you have an account on all of the other Amazon's. I frequently order from Amazon UK. iTunes also has regional versions. I would love to be able to order from iTunes Japan for the amine soundtracks that are not available from iTunes US.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Round up the usual suspects ...

One poster in the Comcast Internet Forum reported receiving a DMCA notice for a date when he was away from home, and no other household members were present either. Apparently a pirate used a hacked modem with his MAC address, so the "offending" IP address was improperly tied to his account.

My mother, an SBC customer at one time, canceled an order for hardware before it was shipped. SBC honored the cancel, and did not ship. But she spent the next eleven months fighting the Billing (Bilking?) Dept. over a monthly charge for the item not delivered.

To err is human, but to really foul things up takes a computer.

And we are to assume that "Six Strikes" will never get it wrong? And have to pony up $35 to prove it when (not "if") they do? Whom does the ISP actually serve? Apparently not the paying customer; but rather the MPAA/RIAA.

The good news, for me, is that I could fire AT&T and hire an ISP which is not on board with "Six Strikes".
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
BangBang

join:2000-07-05
Fairview, NJ

censorship

"When repeated infringers try to access certain websites they will be redirected to an educational page" = straight up censorship

TorGuard

@46.23.76.x

Get a VPN

A quick fix: Get a VPN! A Virtual Private Network will mask your IP address and hide all online activity from your ISP.

TorGuard.com offers VPN service for less than $5 a month - This typ of VPN service is highly effective in protecting your identity on bit-torrent
Tdrinker

join:2012-10-20

AT& T SIX STRIKES

I inherently don't like the encroachment of Big Biz into the Internet. My Nightmare is to one day log in and it will be ABC Internet,CBS Internet or NBC Internet offering you prepacked programs and lots of ads. Don't ever think that's stupid because that's what makes them drool.
But if you have ever sweated blood to make a creative work and some shithead copies it and does not pay for it, you would be ready to strangle them. I've had it happen with websites where you see your copy reproduced verbatim and the photo's. The photo's that you had to bribe to get in and spend 4 hours in 90 degree heat on a warehouse floor to get just the right one.
All I have read so far is whiny self justification from people who steal other people's work. You are nothing more than thieves going in your Mother's purse and stealing money from her.
There is no justification, without the virtual world you would be the one caught stealing C.D.'s from the store. Sure you will try to get around it, but the more difficult it is to do it the less people will do it.That's the idea.
Your insistence on your personal freedom to do this, is affecting all of our freedom to surf the net unhindered. So it is not a victim less crime, you are making us your victims. There will be innocent people who will get into all kinds of disagreements with AT& T over this and you will have caused that by your selfish actions.