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Comments on news posted 2012-10-22 09:44:26: Over the last few months several reports have surfaced pointing out that U.S. residents pay significantly more for fiber than their European counterparts. The New York Times highlighted that U.S. ..

chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

But our voice is cheaper than in Europe?

Isn't? At least there is some good news for the US!

gar187er
I DID this for a living
join:2006-06-24
Seattle, WA

gar187er

Member

Re: But our voice is cheaper than in Europe?

people still talk on cell phones?
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Re: But our voice is cheaper than in Europe?

thats the main basic function of phone or smartphone. People still talk. Talk is more important than you think, one verbal word says more than one written word.

bhctech10
@suddenlink.net

bhctech10

Anon

Re: But our voice is cheaper than in Europe?

right so if i say hello on the phone or in person means more then texting the word. Words are not pictures,words have meaning, weather you say the word or write it out it still means the exact same thing, respecting the context of the word used of course.
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Re: But our voice is cheaper than in Europe?

said by bhctech10 :

right so if i say hello on the phone or in person means more then texting the word. Words are not pictures,words have meaning, weather you say the word or write it out it still means the exact same thing, respecting the context of the word used of course.

Right, they have the same meaning, but their perception from audience can change based on tone which can affect its meaning. A good example is a use of sarcasm or even use of "hey". If u say to someone hey in happy tone, the person knows you're happy to hear them. If he shouts, them you know it's about something else.

Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA

Mike to chgo_man99

Mod

to chgo_man99
No.
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Re: But our voice is cheaper than in Europe?

Care to give source?

Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA

Mike

Mod

Re: But our voice is cheaper than in Europe?

"one verbal word says more than one written word."
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Re: But our voice is cheaper than in Europe?

Idiot.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 recommendation

pnh102

Premium Member

Popular Stupidity Too

I agree that Verizon and AT&T being too big is part of the problem, but when you have people snapping up these $90/month plans with capped data like they are water, what incentive is there for either company to lower their prices?
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 recommendation

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Popular Stupidity Too

said by pnh102:

I agree that Verizon and AT&T being too big is part of the problem, but when you have people snapping up these $90/month plans with capped data like they are water, what incentive is there for either company to lower their prices?

Define too big? So they should have laws limiting the number of customers? That will DECREASE prices? Make mobile companies into regional companies? How is that going to lower prices? it certainly will decrease service.

As you say the customer is CHOOSING these plans. So basically we should have laws to save customers form their own stupidity?

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Re: Popular Stupidity Too

I agree there isn't a good way to define "too big" and that the bigger problem will remain customer stupidity.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Popular Stupidity Too

They are big because they have the most customers. The have the most customers because they provide service to the most people. Sprint and T-Mobile don't offer service in my area because I guess we not big enough for them. Is that Verizon's or at&t's fault? Nope. If these companies want more customers go to where the customers actually are.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer

Premium Member

Re: Popular Stupidity Too

Again, this 'spectrum crisis' could be avoided completely if the carriers built up their infrastructure. Expensive? Sure it would be but, as Pnh correctly said, people snap up these plans like water now. How about forgoing dividends and re-investing for a change?

People who live in hurricane prone areas should spend some of their own money to board up the windows... buy a generator... store some extra food; and not go crying to the government for a spectrum handout.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Popular Stupidity Too

said by CXM_Splicer:

Again, this 'spectrum crisis' could be avoided completely if the carriers built up their infrastructure.

Considering Verizon has LTE to 80% of its customers and is by FAR ahead of anyone else. I'm not sure how you can say they are not doing that. The ones that are far behind are Sprint and T-Mobile the very companies al the at&t and Verizon haters want to give all the spectrum to.

What expertise do you have to say how much spectrum is "enough" to serve over 100 million customers? And what expertise to do you to say what will be enough in 5 or 10 years?
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer

Premium Member

Re: Popular Stupidity Too

Obviously there is no 'expertise' that can predict what the wireless landscape will look like in 10 years and I would be highly doubtful of anyone that claimed to know.

True VZ has been at the forefront of the LTE expansion but that has been under the current spectrum-hogging tower footprints... that's not what I mean by building up their infrastructure. I am not saying that VZ should never get spectrum under any circumstances... what I am saying is that they shouldn't get more until they are using their current spectrum at maximum efficiency; or, at the very least, until they make progress in addressing the spectrum shortage for themselves rather than just whine to the FCC about it. Standardization of technologies, micro-cells, sharing cell sites, there are LOTS of ways industry could & should deal with this NOW, before there is a problem.

If only companies still thought this way. Unfortunately, they have cut off their innovative 'balls' to maximize short term profits. Personally, I don't think the government should step in to encourage more of this behavior.
Terabit
join:2008-12-19

1 edit

Terabit to 88615298

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to 88615298
It is indeed their fault actually because they control the high quality spectrum.

It takes 5 times the PCS sites to match one 850Mhz base station. A whopping 9 times the sites of 2.6Ghz equip to match 1, yes 1, 850Mhz site.
Terabit

1 edit

Terabit to 88615298

Member

to 88615298
said by 88615298:

Define too big? So they should have laws limiting the number of customers? That will DECREASE prices? Make mobile companies into regional companies? How is that going to lower prices? it certainly will decrease service.

Only having 2 main wireless carriers in a country of 310 million is indeed too big. Spectrum has to be reallocated and divided accordingly for the 21st century, so that there is enough quality and usable spectrum in any city, to allow 4 to 5 business to offer a competing network on a similar playing field.

When one carrier has 25MHz of 700MHz, while the other has 10Mhz at 1.9Ghz, this is no match.

As you say the customer is CHOOSING these plans. So basically we should have laws to save customers form their own stupidity?

The American consumer now has little actual choice; what part of this do you fail to grasp?

You yourself on here complain that x carriers do not service your area or well.

Shillbot
@cogentco.com

Shillbot

Anon

Both Are Shills

Hal Singer isn't "press," he's a long time rent-a-PhD for the Bell companies. He wrote a famous petition to the FCC for the Bells in the late 90s saying that consumers would benefit if dial-up access was billed by the minute instead of as a local toll call.

Enter's firm lists the big wireless carriers as clients.

The press is usually terrible here, but these guys are shills for AT&T and Verizon, dispatched to clean up the mess last week's New York Times story created.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 recommendation

88615298 (banned)

Member

Karl complains offers no solutions

Does Karl wait until 24 hours before landfall before preparing for a hurricane? Karl's logic is preparing for a hurricane before hurricane season is pointless because hurricanes are not real. Is there a spectrum issue now? No. Should the carriers wait until there is one? Now THAT would be stupid. And no doubt Karl would then write an article about how the carriers were stupid in not preparing for said spectrum crisis.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

morbo

Member

Re: Karl complains offers no solutions

The point is there is no looming hurricane; there is no need to prepare by giving in to the demands of Verizon and AT&T. Did you miss the main point of this article?

More: The propaganda pushed by AT&T and Verizon and their shills that there is a looming hurricane despite no evidence to support it.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Karl complains offers no solutions

said by morbo:

The point is there is no looming hurricane; there is no need to prepare

So you're a "prepare for a hurricane 24 hours before landfall" type guy. How does that usually end up for those people?

Did you miss the main point of this article?

I got it. at&t and Verizon are evil and the only thing that can give people the nearly fee mobile data they are entitled to is to prevent at&t and Verizon form getting more spectrum and giving it to Sprint and T-Mobile isntead. And of course they PROMOISE to build out to rural areas with all that new spectrum.

More: The propaganda pushed by AT&T and Verizon and their shills that there is a looming hurricane despite no evidence to support it.

Because the at&t and Verizon hater don't have an agenda of their own.
Terabit
join:2008-12-19

1 recommendation

Terabit

Member

Re: Karl complains offers no solutions

said by 88615298:

Because the at&t and Verizon hater don't have an agenda of their own.

Most of us are who are clued up are not "haters", we are the educated American consumer - many literally. We don't rely on talk-radio or cohorts of the 1% to tell me what's best; all while I am being forced to squeal like a pig.

We have enough common sense to gauge what the rest of the world is doing and compare it to our own market. Research and data clearly indicates that we are being fleeced by monopolies and crony capitalism.

The GOP base constantly accuse the anyone with a view of their own as being 'told what to believe'. However, time and time again, you guys who do this on EVERY single issue. Not matter the issue, you will rebut facts with gut-feelings and cliched rhetoric.
Terabit

Terabit to 88615298

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to 88615298
What's your solution? Let me guess, the breakthrough detail-oriented and research driven: /sarcasm

1. Allow the free market to work it all out magically. Even when there is no competition left; which is mandatory for the free market to work.

2. Government should stay out of it. Logic: Private equity and CEOs should get to decide the fate of 'We the people'. Not some 'government' we 'elect' into office, who wants that right...

3. Pretend the consumer gets to decide, even when dealing with monopolies. Logic: Reagan said it, so it must be true.

We've already played this game and because of it, we are now being charged a world record $40 or $50 for a mere 1 Gig of data. And being asked to pay extra for the "privilege" of sharing this 1 gig.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72

Member

Look at the numbers

In VZ quartery release last week, they are building out at a furious pace, and their gross margins just went over 50% which is unheard of in a "commodity" environment. If you look at the press release they are happy that uptake and jacking prices were even better than they expected.

As I've said people just have no internal controls, that's why 95% of the people are in a hard way when planning for retirement.

Also, their wireline margins went up w/ ARPU approaching $150, this of course with the cease fire with cable in their FIOS regions. They didn't even nary mention DSL environments because they just don't really care...They are to be divested.

The good news is all of this margin is subsidizing the prepaid market, so one can get robust prepaid phone (I pay no more than $25) which is a great deal if you are willing to do some hunting around for used phones. I think when LTE penetration rates hit 40% or so, they will allow MVNO's on the LTE network, because Sprint already does and TMO has HSPA42 which is good enough.

I think Sprint and TMO acquisitions are going to heat things up considerably, and then you will see prices fall or caps go up.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Look at the numbers

said by elefante72:

I think when LTE penetration rates hit 40% or so, they will allow MVNO's on the LTE network,

Verizon LTE is already available to 80% of it's customers.

MovieLover76
join:2009-09-11
Cherry Hill, NJ
(Software) pfSense
Asus RT-AC68
Asus RT-AC66

MovieLover76

Member

Re: Look at the numbers

Yea, but Verizon has never been a big MVNO supporter, they have the least MVNO's and their MVNO's generally charge higher prices because of the quality of Verizon's network.

T-mobile and Sprint will be the first to open up their LTE networks to mvno's, AT&T will follow.
But all of their LTE networks are in their infancy still or don't exist at all in the case of T-mobile.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Look at the numbers

Well if you're going to limit the amount of spectrum Verizon can have why would they waste it on a MVNO when they need it themselves. If they have extra spectrum they'd have plenty for a MVNO to use because by it's nature MVNO doesn't have any of it's own.

MovieLover76
join:2009-09-11
Cherry Hill, NJ
(Software) pfSense
Asus RT-AC68
Asus RT-AC66

1 edit

MovieLover76

Member

Re: Look at the numbers

Your fooling yourself if you think the reason Verizon doesn't have many MVNO's is because they have a current spectrum crunch, it's because people are willing to pay higher prices for Verizon's network, so they want all of those users on higher priced direct Verizon accounts.
And they don't even want many users on their prepaid accounts, verizon's prepaid prices aren't much better than their postpaid accounts.

It's about money and profit, not spectrum.
and that's true for all carriers
Sprint and T-mobile have the most mvno's and the least amount of spectrum, AT&T has quite a few mvno's and I think that reflects that fact that AT&T's network isn't really up to snuff with Verizon, even though they charge virtually identical prices. They just have tons of iphone users
MovieLover76

MovieLover76 to elefante72

Member

to elefante72
This goes to the customer stupidity mentioned before, they pay ridiculous rates for Verizon,AT&T and even Sprint postpaid accounts, and don't consider prepaid because they'd have to pay full price for a smartphone on prepaid.

I switched from Verizon to Prepaid GSM BYOD and my bill went from $90/month to $45/month and now I actually get more
unlimited talk and text instead of 450mins/1500 texts and the same amount of data.

Though I understand that these deals often only work in more populated areas like where I like NJ due to coverage concerns with T-mobile and AT&T's GSM networks.

I think AT&T and Verizon will continue to get bigger and bigger until the smartphone craze subsides, not that I think smartphones are going away, I think feature phones will disappear eventually, but as smartphones become more commodities and less status symbols or technology to show off. I think people will take a more honest look at how much they are spending on their smartphone.

What we need is the FCC to get spectrum to the smaller providers quickly so that when people finally realize they are overpaying for smartphone carriers. their will still be choices other than AT&T and Verizon.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas

Premium Member

So, what to do?

Two ways to go here... regulation of prices, or encouraging competition. It's fine to rail against the emerging duopoly, but what to do?

I am afraid of price regulation, it does not have a good history with telcos. We had decades of stagnant innovation in the wired telephone arena.

How do we encourage competition?

••••••••••••••••••

jseymour
join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

jseymour

Member

Easy Solution

LTE too expensive? Solution is easy: Don't buy it. Nobody's forcing you. It's not like air, food and water, which you need to live. It's not like shelter, which is pretty much a necessity, too. Or even heat and light.

Jim
sparks
join:2001-07-08
Little Rock, AR

sparks

Member

I wish they would start by outlawing phones in cars

I am sick and tired of people texting at 25 mph in a 65 zone.
I am tired of honking at lights because the moron in from of us is typing or talking and ignores the light.

1 yr in jail for first offense and goes up from there.

but really this is BS and needs to be stopped.
Every accident I hear about is caused by phone use.
IF you want to drive, drive...if you want to talk talk. PULL THE F OVER
proven fact you can't talk and drive and texting is pure idiot.

but it would cut into our profits....call the senators lets do some chump change buying.
civicturbo
join:2009-11-08
USA

civicturbo

Member

Re: I wish they would start by outlawing phones in cars

I couldn't agree more, it is illegal to text or talk on a phone here in Nevada sans a hands free device. Should be flatout illegal period. I've seen soo many self important self absorbed assholes driving with the phone on their head, typically driving a Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Or Cadillac. With the first being the worst human beings on the road. If I'm passing and see this I cut them off.
In the Midwest I had heard of this pretentiousness of rich assholes and their overpriced luxo cars with "I own the road" attitude but never really saw it.
Here in Vegas OMG! People in general are the worst drivers on the planet! I've talked to soo many people here that say the same thing, even cops say it. And the luxo brands I mentioned above well the stereo type it a cold hard fact here. Truly hatable group of pricks, entitled to no end dicks.
Ohh and their the majority of law breaking yackers I see on the road.

WHT
join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX

WHT

Member

Supply and Demand

said by Hal Singer at Forbes :
As any first-year economic student understands, prices are determined by supply and demand conditions.
And as any second year economic student understands, supply and demand has nothing to do with it...it all about corporations appeasing the short-term investors.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK

Premium Member

The "Free Press" is...

... only as free as it's Corporate Masters allow it to be.

Huge mega-Corporations with powerful interests control the major media in the USA.

Therefore, it's increasingly difficult to get any real reporting from said sources. They will do what is best for their profit margin, not what is best for the Nation, or Democracy, or even basic rights.
15444104 (banned)
join:2012-06-11

15444104 (banned)

Member

Re: The "Free Press" is...

said by KrK:

... only as free as it's Corporate Masters allow it to be.

Huge mega-Corporations with powerful interests control the major media in the USA.

Therefore, it's increasingly difficult to get any real reporting from said sources. They will do what is best for their profit margin, not what is best for the Nation, or Democracy, or even basic rights.

Nothing more needs to be said.

The corporate "press" in the USA is nothing more than a joke. Of course the joke is on the lemming public.
old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA

old_wiz_60

Member

FCC and the press

bow to the bribes from the carriers.