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Comments on news posted 2012-10-31 10:43:26: As Sandy recovery begins, FCC data suggests that 25 percent of the nation's wireless companies' cell sites were taken offline by the storm. ..


FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

A user friendly Q&A on cell service problems

c|net has put together a user friendly Q&A on cell phone service problems related to the hurricane outages.
»news.cnet.com/8301-1035_ ··· now-faq/

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

2 recommendations

ArrayList

Premium Member

lol



timcuth
Braves Fan
Premium Member
join:2000-09-18
Pelham, AL

1 recommendation

timcuth

Premium Member

Wired phone system

So, now we rediscover the strength of the old Ma Bell landline telephone system.

Tim

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

1 recommendation

cdru

MVM

Re: Wired phone system

said by timcuth:

So, now we rediscover the strength of the old Ma Bell landline telephone system.

I'm curious to know the percentage of wired systems that also went down. It wouldn't surprise me if that number was near 25% as well. Cell sites rely on wired backhaul connections to central offices, data centers, etc. A tree falling on a overhead lines are pretty nondiscriminatory as to whether it's cable, telephone, power, fiber, etc or some combination of all of the above. There were also numerous flooded COs and data centers that had affected wired services and would also trickle down to affect cable and cell service as well.

nothing00
join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

nothing00

Member

Re: Wired phone system

My family just went to FIOS and were without phone service in the promised eight hours. And I expect they'll be down for quite a while - completely unreachable.

They just migrated from underground copper service. Know why? Because Verizon had no interest in fixing their copper service. One phone line that hasn't worked at all in months and another that was unusable due to an extremely loud buzzing.

So basically, telecoms don't want to pay for reliability and they're doing everything they can to get out of it. Maybe, just maybe, this will be a wake up call on that front.

norbert26
Premium Member
join:2010-08-10
Warwick, RI

norbert26

Premium Member

Re: Wired phone system

Verizon is forcing fiber in my area too. In most cases people want the fast internet and TV service and the phone goes along for the ride. (this applies to Cable co. phone too) . The days of the phone being dependable are quickly becoming a memory of years past. For those that say the tree can fall on the old copper land line as well thats true but in most cases a neighbors phone would still work . Back to the fiber (FiOS) 8 hour battery backup in a several day outage its just not going far and many homes lack a genny. Same issue with cable phone if it has battery backup at all.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer to nothing00

Premium Member

to nothing00
quote:
So basically, telecoms don't want to pay for reliability and they're doing everything they can to get out of it. Maybe, just maybe, this will be a wake up call on that front.

No offense but the 'Wake-up Call' has been out (and mostly ignored) for several years now. They neglect the copper plant in order to force people to FIOS and wireless... some people defend them vigorously claiming copper is a dead technology and no one is on it anymore anyway. This is a direct result of the PSC relaxing rules on POTS to the point where it is basically unregulated.
PastTense
join:2011-07-06
united state

PastTense to cdru

Member

to cdru
But what percentage of landlines are overhead anymore? Even in my small rural location they have buried the cables.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

Re: Wired phone system

said by PastTense:

But what percentage of landlines are overhead anymore? Even in my small rural location they have buried the cables.

Around here, a ton. Residetial neighborhoods built in the last 35 years or so are mostly underground. But between those and what is considered "downtown" in my city, it's mostly aerial still. Out in the country, unless a developer has created a neighborhood and buried the line, most country houses on rural roads are also aerial. And regardless of age, many of the trunk lines are still aerial.

JimThePCGuy
Formerly known as schja01.
MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL

1 recommendation

JimThePCGuy to cdru

MVM

to cdru
said by cdru:

said by timcuth:

So, now we rediscover the strength of the old Ma Bell landline telephone system.

I'm curious to know the percentage of wired systems that also went down. It wouldn't surprise me if that number was near 25% as well. Cell sites rely on wired backhaul connections to central offices, data centers, etc. A tree falling on a overhead lines are pretty nondiscriminatory as to whether it's cable, telephone, power, fiber, etc or some combination of all of the above. There were also numerous flooded COs and data centers that had affected wired services and would also trickle down to affect cable and cell service as well.

This article says the wired system faired better than wireless.

"Outages for landline phones are said to be much less widespread."

»bit.ly/TXqfqg

commonsense
@montanasat.net

commonsense to timcuth

Anon

to timcuth
What it reflects is the need to require backup power for cell towers, the same way pressure was brought to bear on pre-breeakup AT&T to have generators and backup batteries for the PTSN, which was correctly viewed as a National Security asset that required national attention (with the PTSN being replaced by cell and digital, the bureaucrats and politicians in D.C. need to realize these systems are the next generation replacement). Both the Bush and Obama administrations have been loath to impose regulations that mandate back up power at cell towers. In 2005, the FCC had a proposed rule that would have required there to be 8 hours of backup power at all cell sites. The usual suspects lobbied to have it killed, successfully. The Obama administration has continued to ignore the issue. That said, the magnitude of this storm was on such a scale that even with backup power at every cell site there would still be problems. The public view and pressure being placed upon the big 3 carriers will probably ensure that they will work to restore service as quickly as possible. They don't want momentum to build on the Hill and in the Executive Branch to take away their existing autonomy. My sympathies to those affected by Sandy.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: Wired phone system

National Security? I suppose anything is possible but given today's technology and "global" military/CIA, if they depend on the US wired or cell infrastructure to keep us safe, we should all be scared. These resources did not provide even one square mile of coverage in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I was watching a NatGeo (or Discovery?) program about Air Force One and while it inter-links to the land and wireless networks, it uses satellites. I'd also bet that the down-link interconnects are ridiculously redundant and strategically placed. I also expect this is the norm for other branches of government that deal with matters of national security.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Wired phone system

Communications is a critical infrastructure sector and is a national security issue. National security isn't just provided by DoD and CIA and it isn't just conducting operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

DHS Critical Infrastructure Sectors
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: Wired phone system

My bad. I didn't know national security had such a broad definition. I was thinking external threats to our sovereignty and it's really any threat that would have significant impact on America's way of life.
FloridaBoy
join:2009-06-22
Bradenton, FL

FloridaBoy to commonsense

Member

to commonsense
Well I have been hearing a little buzz about micro-cell systems or wifi being an answer for the future. Is this the kind of thing that can kill that??

Most of you are probably more in tune with tech than I am so are my thoughts off base??
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer to commonsense

Premium Member

to commonsense
FYI, most of the cell sites in NYc do have battery back-up and/or diesel generators. The problem is that the back-end fiber equipment either doesn't have backup power or the batteries have been neglected for YEARS (Verizon doesn't maintain them) and provide power for about 5 seconds after the failure.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

lame

so much for Verizon and AT&T's reputation for keeping cell sites going in power outages and being that "reliable" alternative to a landline..

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: lame

Do you ever criticize the cable industry?

The Limit
Premium Member
join:2007-09-25
Denver, CO

The Limit

Premium Member

Re: lame

The same could be said about your opinion on all things morally ethical in the corporate world. He has a point though.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: lame

PEOPLE acting morally ethical is what you're referring to.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080 to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

Do you ever criticize the cable industry?

Sure, for all of about 5 minutes Comcast was flirting with the idea of changing over to FTTP but has since recoiled from this idea in the immediate future.. the longer it takes to get started, the costlier it will become. Charging for cablemodem rental isn't exactly on my kudos list either.

tito2020
@verizon.net

tito2020 to ITALIAN926

Anon

to ITALIAN926
Sprint was the only carrier that was still up.
34764170 (banned)
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

34764170 (banned) to tmc8080

Member

to tmc8080
said by tmc8080:

so much for Verizon and AT&T's reputation for keeping cell sites going in power outages and being that "reliable" alternative to a landline..

cell sites were never considered a reliable alternative to a POTS line.

Morac
Cat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ

Morac

Member

Here's the solution

Here's the solution

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa ··· te_phone

nothing00
join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

nothing00

Member

Re: Here's the solution

It's a solution for a handful of customers - not millions in a geographical region flocking to the service after a storm. The system would simply be overwhelmed.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

SimbaSeven to Morac

Member

to Morac
I have a better solution:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am ··· ur_radio

Morac
Cat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ

Morac

Member

Re: Here's the solution

That works if you want to talk to random people on the other side of the world. Not so much if you want to get in touch with a specific person.

Not to mention that it requires getting a license from the FCC and a giant antenna.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

SimbaSeven

Member

Re: Here's the solution

I'm sure the entire east coast isn't void of HAM's. Just get in contact with one and he could relay a message to someone that has working comms.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer

Premium Member

Re: Here's the solution

That is exactly what happens during a disaster like this where other forms of communication don't work. There is a HAM present at each of the Red Cross emergency shelters specifically for this purpose as a matter of fact. If anyone is curious, do some research on ARES

As itguy05 said, the test is not too hard to pass for the basic level. Most of the guys use the 2 meter band with a walkie-talkie type radio (with a small antenna) or a mobile in the car for fairly local communication. The larger antennas are for lower frequencies that can go around the world. It is an extremely interesting 'hobby' with things like moon-bounce communications, digital modes, satellites, direction finding, 10+ GHz microwaves... I would have thought that more of the people in here would have been HAMs considering so many are technically minded.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05 to Morac

Member

to Morac
said by Morac:

That works if you want to talk to random people on the other side of the world. Not so much if you want to get in touch with a specific person.

Not to mention that it requires getting a license from the FCC and a giant antenna.

License from the FCC is easy - you have to learn a few things (Morse Code is not one of them).

And you don't need a giant antenna - one of these:
»www.wouxun.us/category.p ··· ry_id=54

would do well for local communications.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina to Morac

Member

to Morac
»www.arrl.org/files/file/ ··· olor.pdf

Some frequencies require a large antenna but that's perhaps a classic opinion. There are lots of frequencies. In fact some are really prime and perhaps even envied by the wireless industry.

jerks
@ameritech.net

2 edits

jerks

Anon

u

instead of trying to be part of the solution all you want to do is sit here and bicker about who sucks and who rules... how about >we have people injured and without services and we need to get in there and make things right. Point fingers later!
axiomatic
join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

axiomatic

Member

Bright side

Look at the bright side. The east coast will be getting brand new gear and your quality of service will likely go up because of it. The downside is that you have to go without for a while till it all gets fixed.

(note: not saying the storm was a good thing... very sad, very traumatizing, only that there is a bright side to the telcom aspects.)

Tomek
Premium Member
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY

Tomek

Premium Member

In my part of Long Island

My local cellphone tower is behaving erratically, my phone jumps from 4G to no-G and anything in between. I have to drive half mile north for good signal.

Since I am FIOS customer by battery backup was done after 8 hours. I don't have generator and i will be stuck for days without power. I was able to connect car battery via inverter and FIOS works fine. Internet and phone (not enough juice for TV).
Jim_in_VA (banned)
join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA

Jim_in_VA (banned)

Member

Re: In my part of Long Island

that sucks, hang in there Tomek. Hope it comes back on soon.

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

sk1939 to Tomek

Premium Member

to Tomek
said by Tomek:

My local cellphone tower is behaving erratically, my phone jumps from 4G to no-G and anything in between. I have to drive half mile north for good signal.

Since I am FIOS customer by battery backup was done after 8 hours. I don't have generator and i will be stuck for days without power. I was able to connect car battery via inverter and FIOS works fine. Internet and phone (not enough juice for TV).

Just be sure you have the battery in a well ventilated the space to avoid hydrogen buildup.