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Comments on news posted 2012-11-13 12:26:37: Startups eager for inexpensive, faster bandwidth are flocking to Kansas City, where Google Fiber is beginning installs on their ultra-fast symmetrical 1 Gbps fiber broadband service. ..


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

The next Bell System

Maybe if we give Google the perks and incentives that AT&T/Bell System was given, maybe they'll expand it to a national monopoly on broadband (fiber).

Maybe Google can buy out Verizon FiOS since Verizon seems very interested in exiting the wireline business and they don't seem to want to expand FiOS despite the fact it sells like hot cakes in areas that FiOS has been deployed.

Right now, Google is our only hope at getting FTTP in Springfield, MA since Verizon does not seem interested in bring FiOS here. Hopefully Google fiber will be a success and they'll expand into other areas.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

1 recommendation

Re: The next Bell System

said by IowaCowboy:

Maybe if we give Google the perks and incentives that AT&T/Bell System was given, maybe they'll expand it to a national monopoly on broadband (fiber).

Maybe Google can buy out Verizon FiOS since Verizon seems very interested in exiting the wireline business and they don't seem to want to expand FiOS despite the fact it sells like hot cakes in areas that FiOS has been deployed.

If FiOS was "selling like hotcakes", Verizon would continue to expand its footprint.
The simple fact is that the majority of consumers in Fios territories do not want to pay for it - this has been proven for six years.

Who would pay $70+ a month for fiber optic when you can get cable modem or DSL service for $30? Answer: not that many.

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

Re: The next Bell System

said by elray:

said by IowaCowboy:

Maybe if we give Google the perks and incentives that AT&T/Bell System was given, maybe they'll expand it to a national monopoly on broadband (fiber).

Maybe Google can buy out Verizon FiOS since Verizon seems very interested in exiting the wireline business and they don't seem to want to expand FiOS despite the fact it sells like hot cakes in areas that FiOS has been deployed.

If FiOS was "selling like hotcakes", Verizon would continue to expand its footprint.
The simple fact is that the majority of consumers in Fios territories do not want to pay for it - this has been proven for six years.

Who would pay $70+ a month for fiber optic when you can get cable modem or DSL service for $30? Answer: not that many.

Even if FiOS was selling like Hotcakes they still would not continue to expand. Because they are not happy with only a 10% to 15% profit margin. They want to get the 25% to 35% profit margins like they do with Verizon Wireless.
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Re: The next Bell System

The profit margin on FiOS could be very good, but as long as people continue to use DSL/copper it will remain low. Verizon needs to move everyone over to FiOS and off of copper because it is pricey to maintain a copper network. But they can't, so it continues to sit. If they could future FiOS expansion would not be out of the question.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

Re: The next Bell System

I dont get this comment.
Verizon owns the dsl/copper lines and the fiber lines.
If they upgrade an area for fios they can force people to switch by turning off the copper.

Yello

@144.70.2.x

Re: The next Bell System

Verizon's legacy wireline business is regulated and publicly funded via USF. They cannot just force people onto FiOS abandon the copper.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: The next Bell System

said by Yello :

Verizon's legacy wireline business is regulated and publicly funded via USF. They cannot just force people onto FiOS abandon the copper.

Actually, they can, unless the FCC reverses itself.

But revisiting forbearance would not solve anything.
The problem is the underlying cost of FTTH - a price most consumers are unwilling to pay. Re-regulating telco would result in higher, not lower prices overall.
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·MegaPath
They could force you over to FiOS. AT&T did this in areas where they built out FTTH under Project Lightspeed. and only the dial-tone is regulated, not the Internet. They could also pull an AT&T and go to each state and ask them to de-regulate their business and remove MTS if the customer bundles- which states are doing for AT&T.

skuv

@rr.com
said by Oh_No:

I dont get this comment.
Verizon owns the dsl/copper lines and the fiber lines.
If they upgrade an area for fios they can force people to switch by turning off the copper.

Not unless they are going to charge the same price for FIOS internet and phone as they are for DSL/POTS to the people they forced over.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
said by silbaco:

The profit margin on FiOS could be very good, but as long as people continue to use DSL/copper it will remain low. Verizon needs to move everyone over to FiOS and off of copper because it is pricey to maintain a copper network. But they can't, so it continues to sit. If they could future FiOS expansion would not be out of the question.

Verizon hasn't paid more than lip service to actually offering 1gigabit and beyond to it's FIOS customers. Profit margins are dependant upon the consumer's income which at last check is getting squeezed tighter than a ponzi scheme bank acount after the money is laundered (stolen).

In 1996 dollars, you should have been able to afford $99 triple play services inclusive of all taxes & fees as a mid-grade tier. in 2012's dollars that's pushing $149.. What was the google's dual play price $140? This includes gigabit symmetric.

While the price should have gone up.. the verizon mid tier should reflect easily 100 - 300 megabits symmetric by now.

One last thing, there was at least a 2 year period of price deflation from 2008 - 2010 where all consumer prices were on a freeze or decline (if you saw prices increase you were getting gouged).

Glad to see Google fiber is now live instead of vaporware.. many people were speculating the first actual customer served would be well into next year.. (q1-2013)
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: The next Bell System

said by tmc8080:

verizon mid tier should reflect easily 100 - 300 megabits symmetric by now.

Why? Based on what?
said by tmc8080:

One last thing, there was at least a 2 year period of price deflation from 2008 - 2010 where all consumer prices were on a freeze or decline (if you saw prices increase you were getting gouged).

The real rate of inflation is what matters, not the CPI fluff numbers that get thrown around. I doubt there was any more "gouging" going on than normal during the last few years.
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

Re: The next Bell System

said by openbox9:

Why? Based on what?

Based on the fact that we're talking about an information technology.

Here's an example of an information technology you might be familiar with:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: The next Bell System

That doesn't answer my question.
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

Re: The next Bell System

said by openbox9:

That doesn't answer my question.

It does answer it.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: The next Bell System

No.
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
Because a vast majority of people don't get just internet. They get 2 play or 3 play. Taken as just internet, FIOS pricing sucks compared to TWC in my area.

If you look at my block of 20 houses, 17 have converted to FIOS which used to be 100% TWC before this, so I would say it's working in my cherry picked neighborhood.

I pay $107 w/ taxes for the 3 play and get 25/25 which is good, but if google offered me $120, I'd be gone in a second. I could port the phone service in a minute for short cash.

FIOS penetration sits about 33%. It will need to get in the 40's for more investment because TWC is launching packages to pick off customers. Welcome to competition. The beneficiaries: The Customer.

Verizon will never sell off FIOS because they will use it to connect to businesses, which is the real money maker. Residential is a nice to have....
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

Re: The next Bell System

VZ has already sold off FiOS networks. And they only recently started using it for Ethernet- which isn't even an option currently.

skuv

@rr.com

Re: The next Bell System

said by TBBroadband:

VZ has already sold off FiOS networks. And they only recently started using it for Ethernet- which isn't even an option currently.

That's because it was part of a system that they no longer wanted, but had to get rid of the piece with FiOS as part of the deal. Verizon wasn't specifically looking to sell off FiOS as the OP here suggested they should do.

And Frontier, who owns that portion of the FiOS network, has raised prices and installation fees on it in an apparent effort to kill it off.
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·MegaPath

Re: The next Bell System

Verizon could have kept those FiOS Networks. But the reality would have been, why support 1 single network in Indy when the entire state would be sold? It would cost them more money it wasn't about being part of a system, if that was the case Cali which was never BA would have been sold off since it was part of GTE.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
Yeah, it's penetration into the market has been poor. It just shows the utter stupidity of people. Verizon builds an incredible fiber network with super-fast internet, and people still have cable or DSL? What on earth are they thinking?
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: The next Bell System

said by BiggA:

Yeah, it's penetration into the market has been poor. It just shows the utter stupidity of people. Verizon builds an incredible fiber network with super-fast internet, and people still have cable or DSL? What on earth are they thinking?

Spending an extra $40-50 a month for a service level you don't need.
Who is utterly stupid?

No insult intended - but the bottom line is a strong majority of consumers don't have a need for "super-fast internet" beyond what cable is already offering at half the entry price.

We were fine with 1Mbit DSL. In fact, we were fine with 256K DSL.
Today we have 10Mbit cable for $30/month, which yields 25Mbits, though we are considering dropping to the new 3M tier @ $20/month.
(Modem rental nonsense not withtstanding - that will be resolved this month.)

Why on earth would we contract with Verizon for $75+/month?
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: The next Bell System

said by elray:

No insult intended - but the bottom line is a strong majority of consumers don't have a need for "super-fast internet" beyond what cable is already offering at half the entry price.

And along those lines, many consumers don't care about the transmission medium, only that it works. It's typically us geeks that get all excited about fiber. As you've suggested, cable can relatively easily match current FiOS offerings and price tends to win out for most consumers.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: The next Bell System

said by openbox9:

said by elray:

No insult intended - but the bottom line is a strong majority of consumers don't have a need for "super-fast internet" beyond what cable is already offering at half the entry price.

And along those lines, many consumers don't care about the transmission medium, only that it works. It's typically us geeks that get all excited about fiber. As you've suggested, cable can relatively easily match current FiOS offerings and price tends to win out for most consumers.

Moreover, for most consumers, Cable doesn't need to match Fiber speed.
Contrary to the geek mantra repeated here 10x daily, no one needs those speeds.

While with the introduction of 4K HD, the "want" for such speeds could experience an uptick, again, few are going to pay a premium for it, and it isn't going to happen under net-neutrality rules. Any uber-bandwidth will be local-only for the MSO.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: The next Bell System

Considering that a lot of people still don't understand why HD is so important, I'm not counting on a lot for UHD. Plus, we still have a ways to go in terms of getting to 1080p and reducing the quality hit that compression introduces.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: The next Bell System

said by BiggA:

Considering that a lot of people still don't understand why HD is so important, I'm not counting on a lot for UHD. Plus, we still have a ways to go in terms of getting to 1080p and reducing the quality hit that compression introduces.

UHD will happen. But it will be a premium home-theater product only, until such time as someone (Sony, Microsoft, Apple) chooses to pony/partner up for the last-mile delivery.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: The next Bell System

I don't think we will see any linear delivery to the home. Of course people with high-bandwidth connections will have at least a small amount of content out there on the global interwebs, but the domain on UHD will largely be limited to discs, which are a dying breek for most anyways. Even if I had a UHDTV, I'd probably use streaming 1080p before I bothered with a Blu-ray with UHD. And most people are fine with 720p, if that.

jfleni

@bhn.net
And Boston! And Manchester NH! And NYC! And Hartford! Etc, Etc.....

In most of those places, customers are getting ripped of by "Bedpan Networks" (or something similar) which gives barrels of money to the pols (GIMME), and nearly always abysmally bad, or very high-priced service to the public!

No wonder the FTC is on Google's case. They are queering the contribution (read bribe!) flow!

We need an "Interstate Network" system, where all companies and individuals, not just monopolies and their victims, can buy the services they need and want! It would not be much different than competing trucking companies.

Curly McLain

@myfairpoint.net
said by IowaCowboy:

Maybe if we give Google the perks and incentives that AT&T/Bell System was given, maybe they'll expand it to a national monopoly on broadband (fiber).

...they've gone about as fur as they can go...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=wumfOPop5zA
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Startup village posting live install - 1PM CST today

Is this as geeky as a smartphone unboxing or what...

»www.kcstartupvillage.org/livestream/
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: Startup village posting live install - 1PM CST today

Forbes is also tracking the live install...

»www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2···ched-on/
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: Startup village posting live install - 1PM CST today

quote:
Google Q&A...
12:15 – Question: When will Google Fiber be opened up to businesses rather than residences. Answer: 100% focused on residences now, but a small business product will be coming soon.

12:17 – Question: Will Google monitor bandwidth or limiting bandwidth? Answer: Not at all. We have policies in place to optimize types of traffic like video, but it’s not based on content.


JasonOD

@comcast.net

Unsustainable

Not saying google won't prop it up indefinitely, but the financials of offering something for free (5mbps) or 1gbps for $70 even while whoring every scrap of data to generate ad revenue doesn't add up without massive company subsidies. And in this case, the help of Kansas City's anti-competitive easement deals.

Look for big price increases soon, or look for this to be the first and last google fiber 'project'.

••••••••••••••••

Kommie
Premium
join:2003-05-13
united state
kudos:3

2 edits

Try Wallingford, CT next!

Suggestion to the Google Folks:

Try Wallingford,CT next that Town owns its electrical poles/lines too. Much easier to get on the poles then in private poles.

Darknessfall
Premium
join:2012-08-17
kudos:6

Re: Try Wallingford, CT next!

Connecticut needs Google Fiber :P!
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: Try Wallingford, CT next!

well it is forgotten about by SBC/ATT. Took a long time for Danbury to get DSL when I lived there.(side note I still call the telco in CT as SNET out of some odd habit.)
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
TexasRebel

join:2011-05-29
Edgewood, TX

1 recommendation

why?

are they rolling it out in runned down neighborhoods?? That enclosed photo on the article shows an installation van parked in a dump of a neighborhood. Who's fronting the bill?? Government Welfare checks??

•••••••••
brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL
kudos:1

Great

If I had a job in Kansas I would move now for that 1Gb Fiber. Makes my 155Mbps connection at home seem outdated.

•••••

The Limit
Premium
join:2007-09-25
Greensboro, NC
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Windstream

So...

So, apparently the project didn't get delayed or shelved like some predicted here. I'm glad that these users have access to this bleeding 'net speed. Now where's mine?! Lol
--
"We will evaluate these integrals rigorously if we can, and non-rigorously if we must".
---Victor Moll, invited talk, Tom Osler Fest (April 17, 2010)

•••

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

More hoopla.

This isn't going to attract a steady stream of tech jobs into Kansas City like they hope. Chattanooga has been the "GIG City" for over a year now and there is not a mad dash of incoming high tech jobs.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.

•••••••••••••
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Experience of a 5Mbps user

Here's an article about a school teacher who ordered the 5Mbps "free" service...

»www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/b···snt.html
ophelus

join:2004-01-11
Kansas City, MO

whatever

I'm planning to get the 1 gbit.. I mean I don't exactly like paying $70 a month.. but I plan to split it between 3 users and myself and I'm a power user..

But who the hell of the 3 users can knock out the connection.. only I would be able too.. and even then it's a "maybe"

I can honestly agree a school teacher doesn't need above 5 mbit.. yet.. but if his house is wired with 3 teenagers all with laptops and this latest greatest thing comes out. (a invention google may be counting on.. whatever X is) he may end up upgrading..

Anyway, I'm one of those that probably won't be able to get it for at least six months.. damn you rich unimpoverished areas

Also that guy noticing it was knocked out.. reflects some of my experiences testing it at some cafes that are already wired.. I am not going on record as saying that in my experience the service is "stable" we'll see...