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Comments on news posted 2012-11-14 10:21:53: AT&T broadband users continue to claim there's something not quite right about the way AT&T calculates data usage for their capped DSL and U-Verse users. ..

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cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to BonezX

Re: Weights and measures

said by BonezX:

said by cowboyro:

said by DataRiker:

Since the term pound is unqualified it can refer to a mass or a force.

The term pound denotes a mass (when we are talking about "weights"). The pound-force term denotes the gravitational force exerted by a 1lb mass on Earth.

LB is a measurement of force(weight is called the normal force of an object fyi), the imperial measurement of mass is the slug.

According to NIST it's officially defined as a unit of mass. What some people use it as has no bearing over the official definition.


BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
kudos:1
said by cowboyro:

According to NIST it's officially defined as a unit of mass. What some people use it as has no bearing over the official definition.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slug_%28mass%29
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_force

might want to also look outside the united states of stuck in the past, if you did calculations in the scientific community, or about ~90% of the countries in the world in lb you would be laughed at.


OldCableGuy

@planetcr.net
reply to BonezX
>good example, a meter is how long it takes for light to travel in 1/299 792 458 of a second.

Yeah, that doesn't sound arbitrary or anything.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

You *might* gain some energy content advantage is you filled up in the winter just after the underground tanks were replenished, if the tanker had traveled 200 miles in -20F weather and chilled the gasoline.

To quantify that amount...

Gasoline expands about 1.2ml per liter per 1 degree C increase in temperature. The variation between -20F and the baseline 15C is approximately 44C. That gives you the equivalent additional energy as an extra 52.8mL at the baseline temp, or a 5.28% advantage. Putting that in terms of units Americans would understand, that's like getting an extra 7/8ths of a cup of gas per gallon.

It usually averages out though for non-ATC pumps. Because for tanks that you might get at -20F, you may also get gas at 80 or 90 degrees and you lose the advantage.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to 88615298

Re: 1GB =1000mb

said by 88615298:

I don't care what you say it's 1024 and any ISP charging overages based on 1000 will get sued and lose.

Good luck with that. Let us know how it turns out.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

3 edits
reply to cowboyro

Re: Weights and measures

said by cowboyro:

According to NIST it's officially defined as a unit of mass. What some people use it as has no bearing over the official definition.

This is a rather silly point since force is defined using mass.

When you understand your circular reasoning get back to me.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to NOCTech75

Re: If ISPs are gonna do meters....

That's why I said this in my original post:

...until we can legally provide sufficient evidence that they act as a monopolies and should be regulated...



We may think they are monopolies and they might be monopolies but at this time, the FTC has not taken action to classify them as such and is not imposing regulations. I wish it were different and I agree with you but legally, they aren't subject to any regulation. They also file suit against the FCC whenever they try to impose things like "network neutrality" or any actions that attempt at a definition without sufficient loop holes to let them do whatever they please. Even when the FTC puts conditions on buyouts and mergers, there are loop holes, stall tactics and half-hearted attempts to comply

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to cdru

Re: Weights and measures

said by cdru:

.......That gives you the equivalent additional energy as an extra 52.8mL at the baseline temp, or a 5.28% advantage. Putting that in terms of units Americans would understand, that's like getting an extra 7/8ths of a cup of gas per gallon.

52ml is roughly 20% of a standard 8oz./250ml 'cup', or approximately 2 ounces or 1/4 cup.

Anyone have any idea what the typical temperature of gasoline is when it's held in above ground tanks at the refiners terminal, and how much hat temperature varies though the year in different climatic zones?


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to BonezX
said by BonezX:

said by cowboyro:

According to NIST it's officially defined as a unit of mass. What some people use it as has no bearing over the official definition.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slug_%28mass%29
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_force

might want to also look outside the united states of stuck in the past, if you did calculations in the scientific community, or about ~90% of the countries in the world in lb you would be laughed at.

The pound is the official unit for mass. Not force, mass.
The slug is a derived unit that makes the 1:1 translation between units of time, length and force so that F=m*a


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

4 edits
Force is defined using mass.

If you use pound in science, you will be immediately asked to clarify if you mean force or mass.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to OldCableGuy
it is arbitrary until you once again qualify "in a vacuum"

Science is very particular about details


ieolus
Support The Clecs

join:2001-06-19
Danbury, CT
reply to dnoyeB

Re: 1GB =1000mb

Logic has nothing to do with that; it is math.
--
"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to dnoyeB

Re: for classic ADSL, they count all the headers

ATM and PPPoE encapsulation are consistent; nothing at all like the differences between planes, trains, trucks, and boats.

Moreover, to address your misconception in another thread about a "different name for the same product", AT&T U-verse does away with ATM and PPPoE encapsulation; in effect, reducing the size of the envelope.

BTW, not just USPS, and not just letters. Having worked in shipping I know that FedEx and UPS fees are based on the gross weight of the package.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net
reply to tkdslr

Re: DSL Metering

The FTC isn't going to do squat. They'll ignore complaints and/or bury them in red tape and they will never see the light of day. ATT has the best protection from the law that money can buy. They've proven it time and time again.


chamberc
Premium
join:2008-08-05
Irving, TX
reply to travelguy

Re: Weights and measures

said by travelguy:

said by talz13:

It is always a gallon of gas, but due to temperature fluctuations, it may not be the same mass due to higher densities in cold temperatures, and lower densities in warmer temperatures.

Which is why Costco pumps have a label on them now stating that they sell gas by volume not energy content. Some ambulance chaser thought they could win a lawsuit because the pumps weren't temperature compensating.

Take E85. A gallon has 1/3 less energy content, so therefore it takes 1/3 more E85 to go the same distance as gas.

I always laugh when I see people filling up with E85 thinking they're paying less, and yes, I ran two tanks of the crap to confirm. My gas mileage dropped from 12 mpg to 8.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

And as long as we have some crying about

the "big bad government" whenever anything about business comes up, companies like AT&T have nothing to worry about when it comes to screwing over consumers with 'secret' policies.

Oh no! AT&T had to pay a $2M fine for a scam that netted them 500M? The disaster!


OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH
reply to mackey

Re: DSL - ATM overhead

More specifically USPS charges for the item tendered for shipment as is, not the % share of the pallet/tub/bag, ect they will combine others with. Would if like if USPS charged 44 cents for the letter the $.00000795 for the Bin the letter will be transported in.