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Comments on news posted 2012-12-04 08:45:13: As the United States government continues its relentless expansion of domestic surveillance capabilities, the latest effort is focused on forcing wireless carriers to retain text message logs for at least two years. For much of the last decade the U. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


buzz_4_20

join:2003-09-20
Limestone, ME

1 recommendation

Wow, I can't see this being abused...

I'm getting that feeling that we're just supposed to be good little workers and never step out of line...



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Prove It

It is incumbent upon the government to show us even ONE prosecution of a criminal that failed due to not having this information.
--
USA 2012 - the mooches won.



nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to buzz_4_20

Re: Wow, I can't see this being abused...

Don't understand why we everyone isn't required to wear little audio recording devices and GPS trackers that track and record everything.

You know, because not having this "can hinder law enforcement investigations."



LightS
Premium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX

Why?

Anybody else notice AT&T was at the top?

I don't think this is a good idea at all.



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

Burden of Proof...in the SMS

How many execs have given insider info via blackberry or other device and not been caught?

Or texting while driving...if there was cause for other incidents, 90 days is too short.

Or with divorce cases, where spouse was texting and cheating...

I'm surprised this wasn't covered under Sarbanes-Oxley Act...
--
Splat



XANAVirus
Premium
join:2012-03-03
Lavalette, WV
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·Comcast
reply to nothing00

Re: Wow, I can't see this being abused...

So who cares if there is a possibility that this maybe could hinder a law enforcement investigation?

Let them work for their cases, don't hand them data on a platter and expect them to return results.

What ever happened to
A) doing stressful work on the job (i.e. having to stress out over the fact that you're having a hard time gaining results)?

and

B) having to actually do things in order to gather data (for the investigation)?



fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

China?

Why don't we just let China run the communications (internet, mobile, TV, etc.) for everyone since it seems the US gov't. is hell-bent on turning our services into what China already has.
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1



Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net

Hello FBI, CIA NSA et al

None of you need my SMS, email or facebook Twitter etc. data so knock it off. It's bad enough that your TSA henchmen practically make me strip down and submit to cavity searches to fly the unfriendly skies of the USA. Get a F#$KING warrant outlining WHY you need my information otherwise get the hell out of my face and my life. We are not Communist China or Syria (yet).



Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net
reply to fuziwuzi

Re: China?

I think we've already been handed over to the same goons who run Chinas telecom.


Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to nothing00

Re: Wow, I can't see this being abused...

Bit of a stretch there. The United States has one of the worst organized crime and homicide rates of any developed country. In addition, more and more of the country now resembles a lawless 3rd world country, yet we continue to be paranoid about law enforcement.

As with anything nowadays, I prefer to look to advanced nations that are beating us and examine (learn) how they are doing things. Evidently, 3rd world nations and ourselves are left with a paranoia against law enforcement; with folks in both failing to connect the dots as to why both are crime-ridden.


Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06
reply to fuziwuzi

Re: China?

China is too sloppy and primitive. The USA must be #1!



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to Twaddle

Re: Hello FBI, CIA NSA et al

said by Twaddle :

None of you need my SMS, email or facebook Twitter etc. data so knock it off. Get a F#$KING warrant outlining WHY you need my information otherwise get the hell out of my face and my life.

The retention law doesn't mean a warrant isn't needed to get the data. It just means that the data WILL BE THERE when a warrant is obtained.
--
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable

money for nothing

One more stream of data to fill hard drives with in the upcoming data center in Utah (»www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/0···acenter/)

The heavily fortified $2 billion center should be up and running in September 2013. Flowing through its servers and routers and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Google searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital “pocket litter.”

Read that, and understand it. Less than a year from now. Note the author's unequivocal use of the words "all forms of communication." I doubt very much that this is exaggerated.


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

1 recommendation

reply to Telco

Re: Wow, I can't see this being abused...

Paranoia? Why? Because just because they make up evidence, lie to protect one another, tase and beat people for no reason, go on fishing expeditions (Petraeus is a good example), have (with enthusiastic cooperation of the DA's office) put countless innocent people behind bars, act as revenue offices instead of protecting the public good, review people's phone records and email with no oversight or justification, and...?

Left to their own judgement they'll do terrible things out of expediency and simply because some of them are terrible people. They need laws governing their behavior just as much as the rest of us. In fact, more so because they have much greater authority.

Something about great power and great responsibility should come to mind.


Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

New technology offeres new opportunity to snoop!

We are back where we were in the 1890's when the police could just enter a home or business and begin snooping around. That was before the requirement that the police obtain a search warrant before entering private property. Then came the telephone when the police began unsupervised monitoring of telephone lines. The police were eventually cut off by laws protecting privacy.

Currently if wiretapping does not find illegal activities there is always the the tip off to the morality monitors by the police that can get victims fired or evicted through public pressure. Gone is freedom of speech. The problem here is that lawmakers lack the knowledge to understand the real issues related to technology. Remember the Internet is a series of Tubes.

Occasionally a brief parting of the clouds occurs and the government lawmakers put police on a short leash. I hope it happens sooner rather than later.



fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering

They already retain our text messages.....

Nothing new here. Assume nothing is private if it leaves your mouth or you act it out. Hell, technology may exist to read our minds.
--
A citizen of The United States of Amnesia. How quickly we forget.


Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to nothing00

Re: Wow, I can't see this being abused...

Versus the alternative, where the private sector (individuals), Wall street ,and criminals run amok, without any accountability whatsoever.

Like I pointed out, we have to models in action here. One model, is used by advanced first world nations, where there is rational and logical law enforcement.

Then you have the 3rd world / American model, where there is little government and no proactive law enforcement. The end result of the two approaches, in 2012, speaks for itself.

Our approach has failed miserably at dealing with crime and it's little surprise that more and more of America now coincidentally resembles a crime-ridden 3rd world country - this is reality.



whiteshp

join:2002-03-05
Xenia, OH
reply to nothing00

It's called a cell phone (gps inside). Your wireless provider already tracks your movement patterns to sell the data to advertisers.



NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Telco

said by Telco:

Evidently, 3rd world nations and ourselves are left with a paranoia against law enforcement;

Yeah, paranoia... tell that to the folks at »www.innocenceproject.org/


WiseOldBear
De gustibus non est disputandum
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Phoenix, AZ

The End Draweth Nigh

Communicators of the world unite, we have nothing to lose but the chains of government snooping. Who shall rid us of these political poltroons?
--
My perception is REALITY


music4praise

join:2006-02-22
Big Rapids, MI
reply to Telco

Re: Wow, I can't see this being abused...

What advanced nations are you talking about? And what, specifically not generally, makes them advanced in this case?


Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX
reply to FFH

Re: Hello FBI, CIA NSA et al

said by FFH:

The retention law doesn't mean a warrant isn't needed to get the data.

That's very naive. Besides, what guarantees would you have it's the government tapping into that database anyway?
Not that it would make much of a difference. These days people have no problem letting the world know what color was the dump they just took on Facebook or Twitter. And once that is done it's recorded forever and ever.


ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
reply to pnh102

Re: Prove It

it's impossible to prove a negative.



nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to Telco

Re: Wow, I can't see this being abused...

I don't like your alternative. I'm happy to live in a world where I'm afraid of the evil deeds of criminals rather than the evil deeds of authorities.


Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to music4praise

said by music4praise:

What advanced nations are you talking about? And what, specifically not generally, makes them advanced in this case?

Western Europe, Scandinavian countries, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand etc etc etc.

Their quality of life, modern infrastructure, low crime rates, robust economies, low rates of poverty and so forth make them advanced.


Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to NOCTech75

said by NOCTech75:

Yeah, paranoia... tell that to the folks at »www.innocenceproject.org/

For starters, 96% of those cases on the site occurred prior to the 00's. Forensics have improved rapidly since then, but of course is still not perfect. Really life isn't CSI after all.

Not to mention, if you weigh up the number of cases that go unsolved versus those committed wrongly, it's probably in the 0.000X%.

Look at all of the homicides that go unsolved every single year. Now compare them to advanced cities like London, where Cameras line the streets. London has more people living in a higher density (more chance of crime), than almost every single American city combined. Yet, their homicide rate per capita is a fraction of Chicago.

I remember seeing a guy beaten and robbed during the protests in London. The cameras recorded the incident and the dirt-bag was caught and he was charged.

No chance in hell would he have been caught in most of our dilapidated cities, as there isn't the means there to find and convict them. It's why gangs and organized crime are so rampant, in every single one of our cities.

clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US

1 recommendation

reply to Telco

So, let me get this straight, these countries are more "advanced" than the United States because they have allowed the police state in?

*chuckles at your naivete*

I'd rather have liberty in a hellhole than a utopian police state, thank you very much.

Expand your moderator at work

clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
reply to FFH

Re: Hello FBI, CIA NSA et al

Anyone who defends this law while supporting the "Defunding of the Federal Bureaucracy" is a hypocrite.

If I've done something wrong, get a warrant, then you can monitor me. No going on fishing expeditions with the last two years of my data, though. If you don't see how that's rife for abuse you are blind.

Expand your moderator at work