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Comments on news posted 2012-12-10 08:47:22: We've noted repeatedly how privacy technology discussions often have a bizarre and amusing lack of context, the press getting borderline hysterical about every NebuAD or CarrierIQ scandal, while ignoring that carriers and the government buy, sell and.. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

"You Have Absolutely No Privacy" - DUH!

DUH! I've never understood why anyone would expect privacy over a public network. I guess I assume there is no privacy because I remember a time when there was none on the interwebs.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for

"What he's again confirming here is that major carriers have embedded hardware"

Thanks for pointing out that the big boys are doing this and not every ISP.

AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

So then encryption means nothing?

While I believe they are capturing some data, capturing it all is a bit far fetched. The sheer amount of data running across the wires these days is HUGE, ridiculously massive. Even the Federal government with all its resources just doesn't have the storage capacity to store it all. They would need tractor trailers full of disc drives daily to keep up with the volume of both encrypted and non-encrypted data flowing daily across the US alone.

I would also wonder about the state of encrypted data. Can it really be decoded so simply? Does Google et. al. just let government entities just capture and decode their encrypted data? Sorry, but call me skeptical of these claims and allegations.


lordfly

join:2000-10-12
Homestead, FL
Reviews:
·SkyNet360

Backups

Considering this vast amount of data, I figure they will have to forego standard backup procedures. About the best they could do is do real cloning between centers. I don't want to do the math, but a Petabyte storage device would fill up rather quickly. I can see drive space manufacturers making a ton of dough from this little adventure. Maybe new technology will come out of this.

We shall see how far this goes. It is dangerous to store that much information.


Uncle Paul

join:2003-02-04
USA
kudos:1
reply to danclan

Re: So then encryption means nothing?

They capture all the data. Their current issue is storage. They can only keep the data for a certain period of time before they have to flush it due to storage constraints. That's the point of the new facility, to be able to keep the data for longer.

The idea was in the past if they needed a wire tap they would go to a judge to issue one, and once issued from that point forward they could listen in. Now, they have access to all the history too.

Killersaurus

join:2012-09-17

Look at Petraeus

If what happened to the director of the CIA wasn't a wakeup call to everyone, then they're going to stay asleep. The FBI cracked his gmail account with obviously no effort and without there being any evidence of an actual crime taking place. There was no legal support for what they did and yet they were able to get full access to not only his personal account, but to his mistress's. I may have read one article about the implications of this ability shown off by the FBI, but everyone else was too interested in the sex scandal to even notice.

Killersaurus

join:2012-09-17
reply to danclan

Re: So then encryption means nothing?

said by danclan:

Does Google et. al. just let government entities just capture and decode their encrypted data? Sorry, but call me skeptical of these claims and allegations.

Ask youself how the FBI got access to General Petraeus' gmail account so quickly and easily. Nope, no collaboration there between Goog and the feds.

MTU
Premium
join:2005-02-15
San Luis Obispo, CA

Privacy

When 'amateurs' can crack it easily....

»arstechnica.com/security/2012/12···6-hours/


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

So Who..

So who should I contact to get back that e-mail is mistakenly deleted yesterday?
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06
reply to danclan

Re: So then encryption means nothing?

I imagine they can filter and compress the amount of data down quite a bit since most of it is redundant or obviously irrelevant. "Persons of interest" or persons who match certain patterns can be targeted for the most intensive data gathering, and corporations would cooperate willingly, though they probably don't need to be asked

Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06
reply to Killersaurus

Re: Look at Petraeus

And that was the FBI, which needs to at least appear to be following procedures and regulations when it wants to build a case for court. The NSA does not need to worry about oversight

Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06

1 recommendation

reply to pende_tim

Re: So Who..

Sorry, you don't have the security clearance to access your email.


vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA
reply to danclan

Re: So then encryption means nothing?

Of course they do. Now end-to-end encryption (where the carrier has no access to the key) is different, and probably much more secure.


Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net

NO Privacy

No American citizen has complete privacy If you have a cell phone, use the internet pay taxes have credit or been arrested or a host of other tie-ins. If the Federal or State govt wants information they will get it, with or without a warrant, the Constitution means nothing if you have generated enough concern or interest. That's not to say you can't escape but it's hard.
My brother lived basically undetected for years (Evidently the Feds wanted him for something) but had to use alias no credit cards, no bank accounts but died a penniless pauper and would have been buried in public mass burial if he hadn't revealed who he was before he died. Death is about the only way you will get any true privacy.


danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

2 edits
reply to MTU

Re: Privacy

said by MTU:

When 'amateurs' can crack it easily....

»arstechnica.com/security/2012/12···6-hours/

This has nothing to do with data streams but with offline hash attacks......e.g. someone hacked and stole user account data and and wants to brute force attack.

1024/2048bit key encryption is far harder and as yet have not been broken. The minimum bit length today is 2048 for keys.

Your data can also be easily protected if you use AES-256 to encrypt and send anything as I don't believe its been shown to be broken yet either.

The complicated issue regarding warrants and searches is somewhat addressed here:
»www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/···20121117


morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to danclan

Re: So then encryption means nothing?

Google email isn't encrypted. It is unencrypted despite using encryption transport technologies like SSL. Unless you and your communication partner both use encryption systems and techniques, everything is clearly available for the government to view provided they fill out the proper forms, pay the processing fee, etc. Google isn't alone in this sense. All providers (AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, Comcast, etc.) will give the authorities access to your information stored on their systems if requested by a law enforcement agency and the proper steps are followed.

Privacy is an illusion unless you create your own privacy.


Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

do non-USA outlet VPNs defeat this?

if you are on a VPN that outlets to Europe using an OpenVPN client and keep SSL intact during browsing, would that prevent the US government from accumulating all your online activity? sure that outlet country could have it (and find you if they could get the vpn provider to give them your mac address), but it seems only USA is still post-9/11 hysterical enough to bother.


anondude

@centurytel.net
said by Packeteers:

if you are on a VPN that outlets to Europe using an OpenVPN client and keep SSL intact during browsing, would that prevent the US government from accumulating all your online activity? sure that outlet country could have it (and find you if they could get the vpn provider to give them your mac address), but it seems only USA is still post-9/11 hysterical enough to bother.

VPN cant save you from the government cause they can setup a honey pot. People like to think they have security and everything's private but really you cant hide behind tor or VPN if the government is REALLY looking for you.

axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

The lack of transparency / illegality bothers me more

The potential loss of privacy is bad. This should be guaranteed by 4th amendment rights. What bothers me even more, is how this happens without any law passed. It's a bypass of democracy, to violate our rights, with no accountability. W Bush approved it, and Obama did not fix it. There are a few senators who tried to do something, but not enough people are on our side.

It doesn't matter if the intent is good now. It's only a matter of time before this illegal power is used to control the political process as well.


Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to anondude

Re: do non-USA outlet VPNs defeat this?

that really was not my point.

the question is - does a non-usa outlet vpn circumvent the usa from accumulating all your usual data traffic, since they can still capture all your data packets coming off your mac address, but it will be SSL encrypted AND vpn encrypt jacketed jibberish, not something they could easially keyword search or catalog about you.

not - does it prevent a determined security agency from finding you out.


WiseOldBear
De gustibus non est disputandum
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Litchfield Park, AZ

And the answer is

This is why as a total population we need to be including some derogatory drivel in each phone conversation/email/whatever. Flood the data files with comments on our "leaders" dress, eating habits, bad habits, propensity to engage in disgusting practices and so on. If nothing else we can feel good about the "last great gesture of defiance" towards those who misuse their power under the guise of "protecting" we the citizens. In this case, lets grind the bastards down!
--
My perception is REALITY


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to danclan

Re: So then encryption means nothing?

quote:
Does Google et. al. just let government entities just capture and decode their encrypted data? Sorry, but call me skeptical of these claims and allegations.

Back doors are built into these programs and the key is given to the feds. No hacking needed. The fed enters the "master key' and everything is easy to read.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


MrPrivacy

@sterlingstudents.net

Attaining online privacy is inconvenient

That's one of the primary reasons that the average individual does not have it. I launched a site in '09 that provides end-to-end encryption of threaded messages and files. I believed that there was an unsatisfied demand for electronic communication protection. I was wrong. Although many say they want it, most are not willing to do anything different to get it. They want all the free stuff they use to change instead. ThreadThat dot com is still available today. It is ad-free and cost-free and I continue to support it because I believe you should have a choice.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to Packeteers

Re: do non-USA outlet VPNs defeat this?

said by Packeteers:

if you are on a VPN that outlets to Europe using an OpenVPN client and keep SSL intact during browsing, would that prevent the US government from accumulating all your online activity?

Bits is bits, encrypted, or not. If the bits traverse U.S. carrier networks, they get scarfed up.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

jc10098

join:2002-04-10
reply to battleop

Re: "You Have Absolutely No Privacy" - DUH!

Privacy is an illusion since Bush came in to office. The playing field has not only been level, it's been sodded, stripped, and painted. Bush opened Pandroa's box, and once politicians saw the powers given, none were willing to turn back.

Obama gave the NSA wiretapping program a blanket immunity. Did anyone expect him to reverse course of Bush's 9/11 Fearism tactics? Of course not. Once you give up rights, they are almost always gone or very hard to reclaim. Now, we're only going to see things get MUCH MUCH WORSE.

The media is too lackluster to care. Most of these giants own or are apart of the same establishments profiteering off the government spying efforts.

Et Al.

Time Warner
Cox
etc


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

no need for the online modifier

You can always check out of society and live in a hut somewhere. They you can have privacy. Otherwise, not so much.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to jc10098

Re: "You Have Absolutely No Privacy" - DUH!

Privacy was an illusion before Bush came into office. It was during Bush's term that it became common knowledge
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
reply to NormanS

Re: do non-USA outlet VPNs defeat this?

said by NormanS:

said by Packeteers:

if you are on a VPN that outlets to Europe using an OpenVPN client and keep SSL intact during browsing, would that prevent the US government from accumulating all your online activity?

Bits is bits, encrypted, or not. If the bits traverse U.S. carrier networks, they get scarfed up.

getting scarfed up being able to read. They would have gigabits of encrypted traffic that they would have to decrypt somehow and right quick if they want anything useful in a meaningful time frame to be able to act on it....


Camaro
Question everything
Premium
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA
kudos:1

We still have privacy

It's called 2 tin cans and a string.

momus_98

join:2002-09-10
Pflugerville, TX
kudos:1
reply to Killersaurus

Re: So then encryption means nothing?

said by Killersaurus:

Ask youself how the FBI got access to General Petraeus' gmail account so quickly and easily. Nope, no collaboration there between Goog and the feds.

Gen. Petraeus was the director of the CIA and held other high level positions. Not really the best example as he'd certainly be under far more scrutiny than the average citizen.
--
"War does not determine who is right; only who is left." - Bertrand Russell
"Patriots always talk of dying for their country and never of killing for their
country." - Bertrand Russell

hgraul

join:2005-12-04
Saint Louisville, OH

Hey! It's on TV

And people think "Person of Interest" is made up. Maybe a bit over blown, but I'm thinking not made up.