dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2012-12-10 10:37:09: If you've been paying attention you know that Google Fiber was never intended to be a nationwide effort, and Google has no intention of becoming a national ISP. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next
Angrychair
join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL

Angrychair

Member

Muni fiber consultancy?

It'd be great if Google set up a municipal fiber consultancy.

They don't have to build the network, but they could certainly help guide municipalities that are willing to put forth the capital expenditure to build out.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

1 recommendation

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

Why do you people act as if Google has invented FTTP? Verizon rolled this out almost a decade ago, on a MASS scale in comparison to anything Google will ever do.
xrobertcmx
Premium Member
join:2001-06-18
White Plains, MD

xrobertcmx

Premium Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

And then they sold off any region they didn't want to build out, then they simply stopped and decided LTE would be good enough. It also allows them to charge more and deliver less.
AT&T decided to go Fiber to the Node and some kind of VDSL to the house, this give ok bandwidth but it isn't FIOS.
So, it is a big deal, and the price points Google has set are unbelievable to a public that has to deal with the incumbents.
cooperaaaron
join:2004-04-10
Joliet, IL

cooperaaaron

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

Some of those homes have FTTH, like my friend's which he is getting it installed this Thursday.
xrobertcmx
Premium Member
join:2001-06-18
White Plains, MD

xrobertcmx

Premium Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

I do, FIOS hit my neighborhood back in '09 I think. The problem is that if I go 10mi down the road not only is it not available, but according to Verizon it never will be.
This leaves those folks with a choice of DSL, Comcast, or Satalite.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

said by xrobertcmx:

I do, FIOS hit my neighborhood back in '09 I think. The problem is that if I go 10mi down the road not only is it not available, but according to Verizon it never will be.
This leaves those folks with a choice of DSL, Comcast, or Satalite.

And those folks are pretty lucky to get both DSL or Comcast. Take a step into other parts of the country and painfully slow 1-3mbps DSL or Satellite is the only option.
xrobertcmx
Premium Member
join:2001-06-18
White Plains, MD

xrobertcmx

Premium Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

Oh trust me I have. I visit family in NY (6mi from Canada) about once or twice year. Choices there are Time Warner or Satellite.
Verizon tried to sell the area off but had no buyers.

LightS
Premium Member
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX

LightS

Premium Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

That's still a cable alternative. My parents are on a DSL loop that's over 19k ft.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to silbaco

Member

to silbaco
Then those people with FIOS can afford to pay a just a little bit more so those who don't have it can have it. Let's call it "Bandwidth redistrobution."
Terabit
join:2008-12-19

Terabit to xrobertcmx

Member

to xrobertcmx
Down the road, try literally across the street. And I am talking about a small two way residential road with little to no traffic. Heck, we don't even have DSL here, just Comcast.

Now that collusion deals have been signed, I'm never going to receive any decent broadband package. Called Comcast and they're like - take it (the $20 increase) or leave it.
Moostang
join:2009-03-24
Tyler, TX

Moostang to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
Google didn't invent FTTP, they just perfected it. Verizon gouges for the same product that Google is practically giving away at 70$ for a gig. What is it, 7 cents a gig? I dare Verizon to be that awesome.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

Yea, when Google passes 20+ million homes, get 5+ million customers, get back to me.

They perfected it? What do they have ? 20 customers? Please.

FLATLINE
join:2007-02-27
Buffalo, NY

FLATLINE

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

Dude seriously stop. You don't even know what your making a point about. We get it. Google is not a competitor to Verizon. No one ever said they were. Google is essentially making a point ( and doing a much better job than you) and testing out services and gathering data. The point of their project is that broadband doesnt have to be slow, expensive, and unreliable.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

Give me a break, the company has 5 minutes in the business and people are talking about them consulting on how to do it?! HILLARIOUS. Cant wait to see the numbers on this venture, because unless they fudge the numbers, it will be a FAILURE. "Doesnt have to be expensive"... Thats right, when you can balance your losses with a 100billion savings account.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

Actually broadband does not have to be expensive, we pay way more per gig in this country than the market value should be. This is why people are against metered billing. They know the Verizon, ATT, Comcast, etc will charge dollars per gig rather than pennies which is the actual value.
prairiesky
join:2008-12-08
canada

prairiesky

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

Isnt market value what people are willing to pay for a certain product

AdamB0
join:2001-01-07
Columbus, OH

AdamB0

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

said by prairiesky:

Isnt market value what people are willing to pay for a certain product

Yes if you actually have alternatives in your market. ISPs are legal monopolies.
prairiesky
join:2008-12-08
canada

prairiesky

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

no, even in a monopoly situation, it's still market value. It's simple, even in a monopoly, if the price gets too high, someone else will enter. All they've done is find the balance between what people are willing to pay for the product and a price that would allow others to enter. That's just economics. Simply put, if there was that much money in it, someone else would find their way in.
saiga6360
join:2010-08-09
Jersey City, NJ

1 recommendation

saiga6360

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

Then you don't understand what monopolies are and what power they have to restrict the market. Once you have acknowledge they are a monopoly, you have already lost the argument.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

1 recommendation

DataRiker to prairiesky

Premium Member

to prairiesky
said by prairiesky:

It's simple, even in a monopoly, if the price gets too high, someone else will enter.

That is not how monopolies work.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband to AdamB0

Member

to AdamB0
How are ISPs legal monopolies? You have choices and are free to start your own the same as Sonic.net laid a ton of fiber while cherry-picking their coverage area. They were free to do so. So what is stopping anyone else? Oh wait! ROI and overbuilding is NOT a particle thing to do.
Core0000
Premium Member
join:2008-05-04
Somerset, KY

Core0000 to AdamB0

Premium Member

to AdamB0
Good point.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

1 recommendation

DataRiker to ITALIAN926

Premium Member

to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

Give me a break, the company has 5 minutes in the business and people are talking about them consulting on how to do it?! HILLARIOUS. Cant wait to see the numbers on this venture, because unless they fudge the numbers, it will be a FAILURE. "Doesnt have to be expensive"... Thats right, when you can balance your losses with a 100billion savings account.

This guy really hates google!

I can almost see his rage. How sad.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

1 recommendation

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

I dont hate Google, I love Chrome. You people are just way too optimistic. LOL

FreeGoogle
@distributel.net

FreeGoogle to ITALIAN926

Anon

to ITALIAN926
Google is GOD!!!!!!!! Shut up and take my money and my soul google!!!! I will give myself to them because they are they best!!! It's the only company in the world that does everything for free no ad's, data mining, or user fees just free products all the time!!!!
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
don't forget, Google actually made those cities and people BEG for the service.
xrobertcmx
Premium Member
join:2001-06-18
White Plains, MD

xrobertcmx to Moostang

Premium Member

to Moostang
That would be nice. We pay about $130 for 30/30 with Verizon, but that includes television and boxes. So, figure $100 for the two. Not bad given the price of Comcast in Northern VA, but still too high.
JTR
join:2012-05-19
Westmont, IL
MikroTik CCR2004-1G-12S-2XS
Asus RT-AC86
Asus RT-AC68

JTR to Moostang

Member

to Moostang
said by Moostang:

Google didn't invent FTTP, they just perfected it. Verizon gouges for the same product that Google is practically giving away at 70$ for a gig. What is it, 7 cents a gig? I dare Verizon to be that awesome.

Get back to me when Google has deployed fiber to over 18 million homes, invested around $22 billion dollars into their network, has maintained said network for more than six years, and can beat Verizon on pricing during said rollout.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

they won't. they only have to maintain the network for 2 years before selling it. if they were interested in becoming a national ISP their contract would have been longer than 2 years.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

DataRiker

Premium Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

said by TBBroadband:

they won't. they only have to maintain the network for 2 years before selling it. if they were interested in becoming a national ISP their contract would have been longer than 2 years.

This doesn't prove anything. Even if they go away(which I doubt, seeing the popularity of them here in KC), their fiber remains.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned) to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

Why do you people act as if Google has invented FTTP? Verizon rolled this out almost a decade ago, on a MASS scale in comparison to anything Google will ever do.

Verizon's fttp is obsolete compared to the google fiber in freaking ..... Kansas.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

obsolete? VZ could go into any area that had Google Fiber and out do them with no time. In both terms of speed, content, and being able to build it out FASTER. Remember, VZ is a CLEC in many areas where they aren't even an ILEC and can go out and put up lines with no problem, has the crew and the know how and don't even have to bribe the locals.

Cheese
Premium Member
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL

Cheese to ITALIAN926

Premium Member

to ITALIAN926
I thought Apple invented FTTP?

••••••
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72 to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
Nobody said that, but Verizon would never consult with a cooperative to bring fiber to a neighborhood outside of it's control. That would be counter to their corporate philosophy.

Also, I'm sure Google was the beneficiary of VZ first move on FTTH and the mistakes verizon made, Google can learn from.

Nobody's fault, the first one through the hole always absorbs first-mover cost.

I enjoy my FIOS, but I don't think verizon are the only people who can bring FTTH.

We have no idea what google plans are, because their corporate mission (today) is different that verizon.

As we shift more to application services and content-based (with ads), the enterprise value may be in the software, not the hardware.

A 24 port smart switch was $500 2 years ago, no you can get one for $130 (tp-link) that does the job for 80%.

I think we can agree that many of the "money" areas --mainly suburbs of metros (and some metros) are well covered and there is decent competition--but outside of that is where an alternative model needs to be addressed to make it profitable.
Terabit
join:2008-12-19

Terabit

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

A lot of my friends in NYC, have TWC only; while some others with FIOS too. Whereas, find the equivalent city abroad, where oligopolies have been crushed by the government, and they will have 5 to 10 choices.

This is 2012 America, where profit takes precedence over what's in the best interest of 'We the People'. Heck, even Romania has 100 times better options that we do.

openupshop
join:2000-11-25
Chandler, AZ

openupshop to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
Ummm is Verizon offering 1 gig up and down? Hell no! This is why it makes news. Google offers this super cheap and shows you how much you are being raped ha ha.

••••••••••

Drex
Beer...The other white meat.
Premium Member
join:2000-02-24
Not There

Drex to Angrychair

Premium Member

to Angrychair
"Sounds good. Let's get started."

"Whoa whoa wait...we don't actually DO the work."
DufiefData
join:2006-06-13
Gaithersburg, MD

DufiefData to Angrychair

Member

to Angrychair
said by Angrychair:

They don't have to build the network, but they could certainly help guide municipalities that are willing to put forth the capital expenditure to build out.

Google's fundamental point with GFiber isn't about infrastructure, but rather bandwidth. They're demonstrating that bandwidth costs nothing; that anybody with the wherewithal to build out the infrastructure can then deliver unrestricted bandwidth at the same cost as limited bandwidth.

Once the (FTTH) fiber is built, delivering 128 kbps costs the same as 500 mbps. IOW with most FTTx, bandwidth restrictions are part of a business plan, not a response to physical hardware limitations.

The optical physical plant has practically boundless throughput capacity from customer at least back to the CO. This is different than coax/metal or wireless backhaul. This is what Google is proving, to shake up both the incumbent telcos and customer expectations. That's why they have the 'funny' pricing structure; to make this point.

Agreed it would be interesting to see if Google works to carry that message to muni-fiber deployers. Although once the media and market notice, the case may make itself.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

Re: Muni fiber consultancy?

it costs nothing when you're going to run it over your dark fiber and drop it on someone else as fast as you can. Facebook could do the same thing with their Datacenters they built.

And Google tried to "prove" a lot over the years but yet has failed. The Nexus project in "turning around the cell industry" NEVER happened and they blew that on CS. Them becoming a Cell Provider and bidding- did NOTHING but drive up prices. And then for NN? OH wait! they turned around and PLAYED with VZ and even agreed to what they were proposing! Yah they really did shake up a lot!

jfleni
@bhn.net

jfleni to Angrychair

Anon

to Angrychair
Really great idea! The net-crats have never lost an opportunity to torpedo municipal efforts in broadband, or to flatly deny service to a great many places.

If google bites the bullet and reaches for the sledgehammer and unites with hundreds or thousands or unhappy muni networks against the duopoly, together they could "cut their unmentionables off", something richly deserved. The "free enterprise" (what a joke!) shills would start screaming in seconds, but it is certainly feasible and would greatly benefit Google and all internet users and the country and all other businesses as a whole.

Municipal facilities include water lines, sewage lines, clear-cut rights of way for many other things, and more, with the end result of most vital network services being underground -- no more stuff on poles to fall down at a moment's notice.

AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ

AVD

Premium Member

Cheap

This should be a national priority, like building out the Bell system was. Of course, all the required government regulation would probably increase costs 10 fold, but still worth it..

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
ssavoy
Premium Member
join:2007-08-16
Dallas, PA

ssavoy

Premium Member

Not much

Given the wasteful spending on other projects, $140 billion isn't that much.

I've always been in favor of municipalities, counties, or states building out the physical infrastructure and leasing capacity to ISP's. Yes, the government owns the lines, but they'd only own the physical network. Your ISP would still be responsible for their backbone and the actual "internet" service.

Of course, this country is way too quick to jump on the socialist bandwagon whenever they hear the government stepping in to try to help, so this will probably never happen on a large scale.

•••••••
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Houston next for Google Fiber?

Dump the salt shaker as not at all a reliable source but the word in KC is that Houston gets GFiber next.

saneblane
@199.192.224.x

saneblane

Anon

Re: Houston next for Google Fiber?

Man if that is true I can't wait. Houston needs a shakeup, Comcast and ATT are playin around too much.

Dave W
@comcast.net

Dave W to xenophon

Anon

to xenophon
Makes sense - if you look up dark fiber maps in Houston, they would have a *huge* backbone here almost immediately. Hell, it even extends down to Sugar Land and out to Katy.

Eagles1221
join:2009-04-29
Vincentown, NJ

Eagles1221

Member

140 billion isn't that much really.

How much do we waste in telco subsidies, tax evasion, money to countries that hate us and a bit of pork here and there in Congress? Maybe we should ask the Prez if national fiber is "shovel ready" ?

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties

Premium Member

Re: 140 billion isn't that much really.

Don't forget subsidizing PGA golf balls. Really.

Pork. The OTHER white(man's) meat.
Wilsdom
join:2009-08-06

Wilsdom to Eagles1221

Member

to Eagles1221
Probably could add a reasonable installation fee to raise a portion of the cost too.
nrobot80
join:2012-12-05
Union City, GA

2 recommendations

nrobot80

Member

Google Fiber

Has anyone noticed that the country that helped invent the Internet has some of the slowest Internet speeds compared to other countries? I've spent some time in Asia, Japan, china, and Singapore to be more specific. There are fiber networks all over the place. If Google went nationwide this would create numerous jobs and improve the economy, I guess that makes too much sense

•••••
nyrrule27
join:2007-12-06
Howell, NJ

nyrrule27

Member

competition

maybe they should put it in areas where verizon isnt upgrading. would make them look good and maybe light a fire under VZ
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Would it really be $140 billion?

$140 billion for nationwide? I am not buying it. $140 billion to reach all media-large markets? Possible. But I have been very closely watching cooperatives deploy fiber in my state, and the amount of money it costs to reach the truly rural individuals such as myself... $140 billion is not going to cover a 100% nationwide deployment. Something tells me these estimates don't include those who live on gravel roads or in small towns.

••••••
PastTense
join:2011-07-06
united state

2 recommendations

PastTense

Member

The numbers don't make any sense

$70 billion for half the population, $140 for the whole population?

No way.We have had numerous discussions over the years about how the rural population is extremely expensive to cover. I would expect numbers more like the same cost for the first 90% of the population as the last 10% of the population--not the same cost for the first 50% of the population and the last 50% of the population.

•••••••
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas

Premium Member

Why not fiber + wireless + satellite for a national plan?

If I were doing this national plan I would not mandate fiber everywhere. I would look forward to the newer wireless technologies and do a combination of fiber and wireless, with satellite as last resort national coverage. I think that would be a lot less expensive and much faster to deploy.

••••••••••
Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

Kamus

Member

Google fiber is awesome...

It's great, but what we really need is technology that is just as fast or faster that is deployable not nation wide, but world wide.
Those that do have it are years ahead of the curve though, and i can only feel jealous of them.
Doesn't it just suck how the internet is the one thing where being an "enthusiast" that spends a lot more on hardware than most people doesn't really get you anything to show for?

MalibuMaxx
Premium Member
join:2007-02-06
Chesterton, IN

MalibuMaxx

Premium Member

Limited by standards not by a config file

That's what I want to see... Companies limiting us not by an artificial cap/config file but by a standard such as 100 Mbps or 1 Gbps... or a Docsis limit....
mjh2901
join:2001-08-02
Livermore, CA

mjh2901

Member

Spin it off

Apple has the cash. They could call google peal off 150b have google throw in ownership of all their fiber and spin off a new company say AGFiber to light up the country. They could as the project rolled on purchase the Verisons Fiber business. And change the TV world by refusing to be a cable company, broadband only. Meaning anyone could swing deals with entertainment Providors build a set top box and go.
NoHereNoMo
join:2012-12-06

NoHereNoMo

Member

$140 billion?

That might be a bargain. How much did the Panama Canal cost? What would it cost to build it now? How much money has it saved since being built? (I think we all know the answers.) Spending a few billion to save trillions might not be a bad thing. Anyway, Google's project is a prototype; prototypes always cost more than the "products" they engender.

And then there's Project Apollo...
OwlSaver
OwlSaver
Premium Member
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA

OwlSaver

Premium Member

It is not just the cost...

It is not just the cost that maters, but also the income. Some questions I have:

How soon after an install does Google make money on a subscriber?

What are the three and five year projected ROI on this? It will be interesting to see the actual ROI.

It seems to me that we have reached a point that Fibre and PON will be viable home technology for the next 50-100 years. Given this and the cost to deploy, this should be treated like an Electric or Water utility. That is, one company should be granted the right to deploy Fibre to all the homes in an area. Other companies can compete to offer TV/Voice/Data service over this utility. This would be the best balance of resource utilization and competition.

•••

Flibbetigibb
@lmco.com

Flibbetigibb

Anon

Karl getting Bolshie again

"that's certainly a doable sum for a country whose military gobbles up that kind of money in a heartbeat on any random afternoon"

Try in about three months. That's something under a quarter of the current total DOD budget (which is the only government department whose budget is going down, and has been going down for years now).
Beans5
join:2005-07-16
united state

Beans5

Member

Wireless

How about we all just jump off the landline boat. Wireless is the future of connection. I don't see why we keep worrying about fiber when it will all be replaced with wireless. All the companies are available to compete wireless, all we need is somebody to offer wireless with around 100 gig caps or more for say $40 and we'll have competition and done cheaply, well almost.

Xioden
Premium Member
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY

Xioden

Premium Member

Been saying this for a while...

»Re: 9;

But sadly, it will never come to fruition.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

Re: Been saying this for a while...

and you think Google is going to expand??
zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC

zod5000

Member

Only 140b?

For a fraction of what they bailed out the banks for in '08, and spent on boosting the economy, they could gave provided fibre to the whole country?

That would of been a worthwhile effort of tax dollars.. lol.
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer

Member

Re: Only 140b?

said by zod5000:

For a fraction of what they bailed out the banks for in '08, and spent on boosting the economy, they could gave provided fibre to the whole country?

Government stimulus that is actual stimulus rather than fulfilling the wish lists of politicians and their "friends"? Don't hold your breath waiting for that.
ConstantineM
join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

ConstantineM

Member

strategic investment is better than wasting 140 billion

They don't need to wire up the whole country to have an effect; for one, they certainly should not bother to be competing with Verizon FiOS or other local providers that already offer 100Mbps for under 100$/mo, or close.

(Additionally, an estimate of half the country at 70 billion, and the whole country at 140 billion, is obviously bogus to say the least.)

But if they don't just stop at Kansas City, and bring up a couple of more locations in a strategic move, then we'll see whether the incumbents can still think that they can afford to simply sit there and wait for Google's next move.
page: 1 · 2 · next