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Comments on news posted 2012-12-18 08:59:48: You might recall that iiNet, one of Australia's largest ISPs, was sued by the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft (AFACT) and the Australian arms of various movie studios for failing to stop the transfer of pirated content across their netw.. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

ds7

join:2012-11-07
Montpelier, VT

More power to them

Providing the files people want without onerous hassles and profiteering would reduce piracy to near-zero. But that's not the real goal of the US copyright cartel. What they really want is to have their little oligopoly totally control the whole audio/video entertainment industry worldwide.

To do that they have to shut down all means of exchanging information without their being able to monitor and restrict it. The fact that this would trample freedom of communication for whole societies is merely "collateral damage" on their view, and they couldn't care less.

The proper answer to this kind of insane demand is to point out that it's impossible for ISPs to police infringement. It is not possible, in practice, for an ISP to know who owns the rights in every file that anyone ever transmits or links to, and who has or lacks a licence to send or receive every file. The only possible proof of infringement is a court verdict. The ISPs therefore should tell the greedy control freaks to shove off until they have proved each infringement in court.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

1 recommendation

Ridiculous...

Are UPS/Fedex/USPS asked to police illegal activities that use their service?


MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

Good

this isp policing of traffic is absurd, people will get around it via proxy's and vpn's.
Their will always be some ISP willing to tunnel your traffic through them for a fee that doesn't bow down to the media companies, even if you have to funnel it through another country.

The only way to stop that would be to make VPN's illegal, which they can't due to the fact that corporations need them.


buzz_4_20

join:2003-09-20
Limestone, ME

1 recommendation

Good For Them

ISPs are not cops. While the should help law enforcement when presented with proper warrants. I don't see any reason they should be expected to do somebody Else's job.

jc100

join:2002-04-10
reply to ds7

Re: More power to them

You can't be free but you can compete if you make the content reasonably priced and portable. There's always a segment who will have never bought an item and use the content due to availability. However, there are many who want a legit license, but then realize the cost is a burden. Consider some software might cost several thousand dollars (Adobe, Maya, etc). In terms of movies, DMA frustrates users. Who in their right mind is going to spend the retail price or near retail only to have restrictions on where and how a film is played?

These trolls are simply aggravating their prospective clients and forcing them onto piracy. It's hard to feel sorry for the King that can never have enough gold.


Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net
reply to rradina

Re: Ridiculous...

Not on movies etc files but the USPS has the power to open and inspect ANY piece of mail or package they carry so they can easily go the next step and actually review what is sent. FEDEX and UPS won't ship wine ands spirits and face massive fines and felony charges if they do. The United States is being crushed by Corporate interests. It's just a matter of time!


Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net
reply to MovieLover76

Re: Good

Don't say can't be done because they will certainly go after VPN traffic after they have shut down conventional traffic. Make VPN's illegal EXCEPT for the BIG boys called corporations would be just up their alley and the asswipes in the FED will certainly do their part to make it happen.


WellIDunno

@speakeasy.net
reply to rradina

Re: Ridiculous...

Eh, sorta. I think they might check for explosives and stuff, but not sure. As far as snooping in every package to check for copyrighted material, I doubt it.


bobjohnson
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reply to rradina
said by rradina:

Are UPS/Fedex/USPS asked to police illegal activities that use their service?

Lol.. Yes they are actually. The blatantly obvious anyway.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to rradina
said by rradina:

Are UPS/Fedex/USPS asked to police illegal activities that use their service?

Don't know about UPS or FedEx, but the USPS has own police force to enforce the law. They are called postal inspectors.
»postalinspectors.uspis.gov/about···ion.aspx
»postalinspectors.uspis.gov/aboutus/laws.aspx
--
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bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
reply to jc100

Re: More power to them

I believe they are scaring the average Joe from pirating with this crap. The people that know what they're doing aren't who they are after.


REITOwner

@verizon.net

Take this analogy further

Let's take this analogy further.....
I am an investor/owner of several dozen strip malls and shopping centers. They have all kinds of stores in them from banks, hairdressers, convenience stores/bodegas, clothes stores, etc. One or a few of them are selling knock off clothes and merchandise along with all the legit stuff they sell. If we extend this analogy, I as the owner of the strip malls would be responsible for policing all my tenants to make sure that they are only selling legit stuff and no knockoffs.

How in heck would you expect me to do this? I would have to hire a team of investigators and experts who could spot fakes from the real stuff. Then we would have to continually check on the tenants. Who is going to bear the cost of this -- certainly not me, my tenants or their shoppers!

averagedude

join:2002-01-30
San Diego, CA
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to buzz_4_20

Re: Good For Them

said by buzz_4_20:

ISPs are not cops. While the should help law enforcement when presented with proper warrants. I don't see any reason they should be expected to do somebody Else's job.

^^2nd^^ well said and to the point.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to rradina

Re: Ridiculous...

UPS and Fedex are not required to do that. If a box breaks open and a bunch of grenades fall out then yes they will notify authorities(in part because such a shipment is against their own regs). However stuff with in the US if the box is not broken they will not just open it to take a peek.

Naturally sometimes boxes did break open but even then the people at the building did not care about the contents.(after all when you have 7 doors unloading full bore into the sort and you have to get the delivery trucks out by 8:30am you aint going to care about a few boxes of fake DVDs.)
--
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averagedude

join:2002-01-30
San Diego, CA
Reviews:
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reply to REITOwner

Re: Take this analogy further

said by REITOwner :

Let's take this analogy further.....
I am an investor/owner of several dozen strip malls and shopping centers. They have all kinds of stores in them from banks, hairdressers, convenience stores/bodegas, clothes stores, etc. One or a few of them are selling knock off clothes and merchandise along with all the legit stuff they sell. If we extend this analogy, I as the owner of the strip malls would be responsible for policing all my tenants to make sure that they are only selling legit stuff and no knockoffs.

How in heck would you expect me to do this? I would have to hire a team of investigators and experts who could spot fakes from the real stuff. Then we would have to continually check on the tenants. Who is going to bear the cost of this -- certainly not me, my tenants or their shoppers!

I wish I could get someone else to do my day job for me for free and I still get paid in full for a days work - now that would be awesome!

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to bobjohnson

Re: Ridiculous...

So they x-ray packages to discover illegally scanned copies of books, thumb-drives that contain an illegal copy of an MP3 library or an illegal copy of a DVD that someone just mailed to a dozen friends?


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
No, but they are obligated to report illegal shipments as you asked in your OP.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
How do they determine "illegal" and how does that translate to what's being asked of ISPs?


bobjohnson
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said by rradina:

How do they determine "illegal" and how does that translate to what's being asked of ISPs?

If you try to ship a pound of cocaine and an AK chances are that their x-ray machines won't miss it. Not paying for things and sharing things against copyright laws is illegal. It's the same as possession of any digital medium that is illegal. If you share it on the internet, they will find it and then find you.
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bobjohnson
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reply to rradina
said by rradina:

So they x-ray packages to discover illegally scanned copies of books, thumb-drives that contain an illegal copy of an MP3 library or an illegal copy of a DVD that someone just mailed to a dozen friends?

Btw, who here wants to bet against the idea that if UPS could send you a letter saying that if you don't pay them $5k they will report you to the authorities for stealing things that they wouldn't do this just the same as the trolls do?
--


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to bobjohnson
You misunderstand me. I agree with it being illegal but you didn't answer how the mail system, UPS or Fedex determines what's illegal and how ISPs should likewise police what they "ship".


bobjohnson
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1 edit
I understand what you are saying but the two things aren't on the same level though... If you ship whatever has been determined illegal by laws that are already in place against possession of said items (bombs, drugs, moonshine, certain guns, etc.) through any of these services and you put a return address on them, expect a visit from your local federales. If you are sending stolen and or otherwise illegal stuff over the internet and your leaving your ip address all over it... Well, that's where it gets sketchy. They are just making up the rules as they go on this issue. Obviously the ISP shouldn't ignore any legitimate request for information and most of them already have a copyright office but are not using them against their own customers. But if people weren't violating copyright law the trolls wouldn't be on the fishing expedition in the first place.
--


Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
I have a feeling you have never worked in the business.

UPS has no way to know what is in a package outside of what they are told. They do not randomly open boxes that are not crossing national boarders. If you ship an AK-47(the fully auto and clearly illegal variety) from PA to FL and its packed properly? UPS will never know. Even if the box did break I can tell you that nobody at the sort would know an illegal one from a legal semi-auto replica.
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bobjohnson
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said by Kearnstd:

I have a feeling you have never worked in the business.

UPS has no way to know what is in a package outside of what they are told. They do not randomly open boxes that are not crossing national boarders. If you ship an AK-47(the fully auto and clearly illegal variety) from PA to FL and its packed properly? UPS will never know. Even if the box did break I can tell you that nobody at the sort would know an illegal one from a legal semi-auto replica.

No I haven't worked in the business. Likewise if you torrent Hurt Locker or whatever through a vpn on your neighbors wireless network or hide the crack well enough that the police don't find it when they pull you over...
They are finding people that in comparison are shipping a full-auto uzi not in a box with a sticker and postage on the side of it.
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NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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reply to bobjohnson
said by bobjohnson:

If you try to ship a pound of cocaine and an AK chances are that their x-ray machines won't miss it. Not paying for things and sharing things against copyright laws is illegal. It's the same as possession of any digital medium that is illegal. If you share it on the internet, they will find it and then find you.

Who are "they"? How will "they" find "it"? In terms of FedEx, UPS, USPS.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
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bobjohnson
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said by NormanS:

said by bobjohnson:

If you try to ship a pound of cocaine and an AK chances are that their x-ray machines won't miss it. Not paying for things and sharing things against copyright laws is illegal. It's the same as possession of any digital medium that is illegal. If you share it on the internet, they will find it and then find you.

Who are "they"? How will "they" find "it"? In terms of FedEx, UPS, USPS.

USPS has the postal inspectors that do it all the time, the TSA finds suspect packages on UPS and FedEx planes... Drivers report them... Etc.
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NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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said by bobjohnson:

said by NormanS:

said by bobjohnson:

If you try to ship a pound of cocaine and an AK chances are that their x-ray machines won't miss it. Not paying for things and sharing things against copyright laws is illegal. It's the same as possession of any digital medium that is illegal. If you share it on the internet, they will find it and then find you.

Who are "they"? How will "they" find "it"? In terms of FedEx, UPS, USPS.

USPS has the postal inspectors that do it all the time, the TSA finds suspect packages on UPS and FedEx planes... Drivers report them... Etc.

But TSA is not the carrier. The carriers, except for USPS, have no inspectors. And even the USPS inspectors are not allowed to open packages willy-nilly, without warrants.

WRT ISPs, let the copyright trolls take their evidence to court to get subpoenas; one case per IP address.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


bobjohnson
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said by NormanS:

But TSA is not the carrier. The carriers, except for USPS, have no inspectors. And even the USPS inspectors are not allowed to open packages willy-nilly, without warrants.

WRT ISPs, let the copyright trolls take their evidence to court to get subpoenas; one case per IP address.

This I agree with... But as of now the trolls are finding who is sending the files and needing the ISPs to give them a physical address. This is all just a really big mess and as I mentioned in a reply above, the internet is a different animal than shipping physical things.
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NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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said by bobjohnson:

This I agree with... But as of now the trolls are finding who is sending the files and needing the ISPs to give them a physical address.

But they are going direct to the ISP for that information; they should be taking the information before a judge and filing a formal complaint in a court of law. One case per IP address.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
I wonder how many people would actually be charged with something if they actually did that.