dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2013-01-04 10:04:21: Verizon has promised to wire all of New York City with FiOS by 2014, but now says they're running into resistance from landlords, some of whom tell the telco their tenants don't want FiOS. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · next


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Cut them off

Landlords want kickbacks...F them, cut off their service...fiber or nothing. When the customers call in (from their cells) point them to the building manager's office number.


dogo88

join:2001-09-24
Old Bridge, NJ

My DSL

My DSL went out after Sandy, go figure, and it took them a week to trace the line to find the point of the problem. I would be jumping up and down with joy, if they had instead upgraded me to FiOS.


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

Who owns the buildings?

Comcast or Cablevision?



nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:16

Time Warner is in Manhattan and parts of Queens and Brooklyn.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

This is common..

We ran into a similar problem with buildings that are owned/managed by CB Richard Ellis. They pretty much only allow their exclusive carriers in the building and deny any orders that do not in the tenants name. So if they have an exclusive with Verizon and ABC Clec orders a Verizon circuit in their name they will reject the order.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1

State law

Verizon could always go to court and get a court order allowing them into the building as the article mentioned state law prohibits this behavior by landlords. We have the same law in Massachusetts.


microphone
Premium
join:2009-04-29
Parkville, MD

If only choosing 1, I prefer the copper wires.

Once you abandon those two little simple copper wires you lose:
1) Phone service that is more likely to work with your power out
2) Reliable 911 service with full location ability
3) The ability to purchase DSL services from a vendor of your choice.

Who would have thought that companies would prefer sending laser through fragile shredded glass instead of electricity over simple copper wiring. But Verizon doesn't have to share their fiber to other ISPs, do they?



PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

"Most of them prefer the reliability of POTS"

Not to nitpick on the details, or make too much SPIN out of this, but it should be pointed out to those customers that:

a) They can order FCC regulated phone service -- it will just be provisioned entirely over fiber instead of all copper or part fiber / part copper as they do today. And Verizon still has to meet the same repair times for it as regular copper POTS lines.

b) Who in the wold can complain about an 8 hour battery life when they haven't had service for the past 3 months because salt water destroyed the copper lines? Maybe 8 hours isn't perfect, but fixing the existing copper to have it destroyed in the next storm, and having to wait another three months for repairs is still worse than this 8 hour battery limit.
--
1/22/2012 Delegate Count
Newt 25 | Romney 14 | Ron Paul 10 | Santorum 8


mjh2901

join:2001-08-02
Livermore, CA

I want to see where FIOS weasels out of the 100% agreement.

New York seems to be a prime profitable area to run FIOS. So many people in such a small space 1000 apartments is way easier than 1000 suburban houses. It should be cheap and fast, despite the nightmare that is the NY underground. Especially since they have no need to keep any of the copper running in parallel while doing the install thanks to sandy. If and When they do start trying to weasel out of a specific area its going to be interesting to see what kind of infrastructure or area it is they are trying to get out of.



Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to PhoenixDown

Re: "Most of them prefer the reliability of POTS"

And they forget that copper wire when the power goes out is running on battery backup/or generator...


Network Guy
Premium
join:2000-08-25
New York
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Future Nine Corp..
·T-Mobile US
·Optimum Online

Say whaaaa

I guess I'm not up to par on extortion law.. Why would Verizon have to pay property owners to install service at their locations? What logic goes behind that?

That's like saying ConEd has to pay building owners for the right to provide gas and electric at the premises.


rdmiller

join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA
reply to microphone

Re: If only choosing 1, I prefer the copper wires.

OMG! When I grow up, I want to be able to purchase DSL!



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

said by rdmiller:

OMG! When I grow up, I want to be able to purchase DSL!

When I grow up I want to be able to purchase a fiber connection. But last, I cannot even though FiOS is less the 500' away from my home as they have run it into new higher priced neighborhoods and to the government complex but bypassed ALL the more established neighborhoods with only Comcast as their choice.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

1 recommendation

reply to PhoenixDown

Re: "Most of them prefer the reliability of POTS"

I would much rather have copper. With storms like Sandy, even fiber customers are going to have long outage times so that is really not a comparison.

However, for 99% of the time, the outage is usually at the customer premises due to power and for long term, the copper will be up 100% where unless the customer provides their OWN generator, they lose all services in 8 hours. With copper, all phone power is provided from the CO, unless you happen to be on an RT inwhich case the telco is on the hook for providing power to that.

Funny how so many people forget the availability that the copper infrastructure gives.


elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

1 recommendation

reply to skeechan

Re: Cut them off

said by skeechan:

Landlords want kickbacks...F them, cut off their service...fiber or nothing. When the customers call in (from their cells) point them to the building manager's office number.

It ain't about kickbacks.

Management has the right to manage the building, which includes inside-wiring, and the right to prohibit disruptive installation of new facilities, no matter how coveted.

If fiber-optic service is so critical, but management fails to offer it, then surely, the building across the street will. One of the advantages of renting is that you can move on 30 days' notice if you don't like your current surroundings.

Verizon is perfectly capable of restoring copper service, if they want to.


David
I start new work on
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:101
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·magicjack.com
·Google Voice

1 recommendation

reply to skeechan

I don't think it's quite that easy. The landlords would just give it back to verizon stating they have to provide phone service.

Technically I think they could get away with putting in say fiber to the node and leave the copper in the building. least then they could have a Uverse type of offering and still have services to the building. I admit not a perfect solution, but maybe a way around the problem. Least that would leave the extortion part of it out and the building wiring can be the landlord's problem.
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

1 recommendation

reply to Subaru

Re: "Most of them prefer the reliability of POTS"

Doesn't that power come from the CO and isn't it usually a generator?


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
reply to elray

Re: Cut them off

And the best about is if you are in a lease, the landlord can stick you with the remanding amount of your lease until its rented.


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to mjh2901

Re: I want to see where FIOS weasels out of the 100% agreement.

Hmmm... Trenching yards vs. fish taping fiber through old building crawl spaces.

A 20 story apartment building is certainly more dense than 20 suburban postage-stamp-sized lots but I'd imagine that both have their own unique challenges.

Does anyone have numbers on the cost difference to wire an apartment building vs. detached single-family homes?


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
reply to Network Guy

Re: Say whaaaa

If VZ wants to co-locate their equipment in that building, yes they should have to pay.


elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to TBBroadband

Re: Cut them off

That's leasing, not renting.

You can always negotiate one or the other when you move in, and of course, if fiber optics or other facilities are important to you, you can put that in the lease, and if they aren't maintained, most courts would consider that a breach of contract, and void any obligation on your part.


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to TBBroadband

Yeah -- that's what I was thinking. Unless you are in a month-to-month deal, you'll owe the rest unless the landlord is willing to rent it to someone else in short order.

Howver, NYC laws may be different. Because so many rent in NYC, there's probably a lot of abuse and hence, the need for lots more regulations (consumer protections). That means there are probably a number of loopholes that allow tenants out of a lease or at least obligate the landlord to find a new occupant within a reasonable period of time.



caseywor

join:2004-04-19
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Charter
·Mediacom

2 recommendations

reply to microphone

Re: If only choosing 1, I prefer the copper wires.

"Who would have thought that companies would prefer sending laser through fragile shredded glass instead of electricity over simple copper wiring."

Wow! I hardly know where to begin with this sentence. First, to answer the question, anyone who has an understanding of how well, or should I say how poorly, data signals are able to propagate over copper past a fairly short distance. The speed of DSL a customer can get depends on how far they are from the nearest DSLAM, and the variation in available speeds is significant over a matter of a few miles. I recommend you do some research on the bandwidth capabilities of a GPON network using single-mode optical fiber and compare those to that of copper POTS lines.

I also can't leave out the comment about "fragile shredded glass." That "fragile" glass is in place all over the world, across continents and under the oceans with an incredible reliability record.



PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to David

Re: Cut them off

I was looking at Verizon's ONT's and it appears they have some that specifically support this type of set up for exactly this kind of reason. I'm sure its not preferred however.

The question then becomes, how are the facilities within the building itself? If the basement is flooded out and all the copper is ruined, then new in house runs may be required no matter what.



Thirsty III

@verizon.com
reply to ropeguru

Re: "Most of them prefer the reliability of POTS"

After all that water the existing copper will be noisy for the rest of it's lifetime.


patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to Network Guy

Re: Say whaaaa

I guess the building wants Verizon to pay for 2 union maintenance workers to supervise each Verizon worker on the property for the entire duration the Verizon work is on private property. Verizon won't pay.



linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
Reviews:
·TracFone Wireless
·CenturyLink

1 recommendation

My experience

My experience with FIOS, Telco, and copper to the home is not very pretty. You may have a zillion Mbps down, but if you don't have 1.5-2 Mbps up you have a phone that is: [1] not dependable, [2] noisy, [3] drops calls more often than cell phones, [4] and is probably not dependable enough to support Life Line services, and [5] it is not always available during storms.

I deal with it every day in every way. It is a pita and nothing like good old reliable POTS. Nearly every phone and cable company in America has jumped on FIOS with the same miserable results.

With some national operators connectivity issues are especially thorny when Unix based devices are not supported. My current telco has 10,000 new units out of service due to faulty PC software.
--
Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside



PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to microphone

Re: If only choosing 1, I prefer the copper wires.

1 - Manhattan has rarely if ever been without power. Sandy and the big North East blackout are the only two times I can recall. Otherwise, power in Manhattan itself is rock solid.

2 - if You go with FCC regulated telephone service (not digital voice), your getting the same exact 911 service. The copper end and the FIOS fiber end plug into the same equipment. Digital voice is different but its not an issue either.

== and in regards to # 1 and # 2 most customers simply don't care about these things, hence why they are leaving POTS line services for Cable Co. VOIP, Vonage, and cell phones.

3 - I'll come out and say it ...

I used to work for a DSL company and it opened the doors to the career I have today. I will forever be grateful to DSL for the competition it has brought to the market and the services that have come about as a result. While my house never qualified for DSL, for a long period of time I wish it did. That was until my cable internet connection started blowing DSL out of the water.

While some companies are continuing to push DSL, its not as as scalable as cable, and not a drop on a fiber based system like FIOS.

DSL, like dial up modems and AOL before it, has lived a good life but its time for it to be put to rest.
--
1/22/2012 Delegate Count
Newt 25 | Romney 14 | Ron Paul 10 | Santorum 8


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·MegaPath
reply to elray

Re: Cut them off

And most places do leases, not renting. It ensures the property will have long term tenants and not someone looking to destroy the property, etc.

A landlord is not going to put in a condition of Internet in your lease. Especially if they do not provide it. Anyone dumb enough to do that shouldn't be renting out properties.


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
reply to patcat88

Re: Say whaaaa

Why should it be a union issue if the employees are VZ union members to start off with. Or did VZ find a loop hole and decide not to hire non-unions?