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Comments on news posted 2013-01-07 12:34:13: Netflix has now taken to ranking the nation's top-performing streaming ISPs each month. ..


cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

Capt Obvious...

So this ranking, won't it stir the pot of "using our tubes"?
--
Splat

Boricua
Premium
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto

Re: Capt Obvious...

No news here. The only thing is Netflix but everything is else hasn't changed much in those rankings.
--
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Google Fiber , a "major ISP". Hysterical. I wonder if they even have 1000 customers yet.
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: Capt Obvious...

I agree. More marketing than anything else. But you can def see how cable and fiber outpace DSL... As of TODAY fiber is the way to go if you are interested in upload. On download I can get 50 Mbps on TWC and yes greater than that on FIOS, but I don't care...My 25/25 plan is just great for me, and I suspect a vast majority of the folks. Choice is great tho.... Thanks to competition cable has come a long way.... and that is the point of putting GOOG up there. It's a reminder to the incumbents that it can be done better and cheaper...

But on the other side of the coin when say any company was lighting up LTE, they would say, oh wait I can get 20 Mbps until there are actually people on it, and say now I'm lucky to hit 10 on a good day on my Verizon phone and more like 6-7 now or less... And we are talking less than 20% penetration on LTE.... Don't get me wrong I think LTE is superior, but my iphone 4s does just fine too on 3G....Verizon just does superior network management...

silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
I know a multitude of cooperatives with more subscribers than Google Fiber, and offering ftth. They don't make the list. They don't fit in to the agenda.

Rambo76098

join:2003-02-21
Columbus, OH
I agree. Guarantee WOW has more customers than Google, yet WOW still isn't on the list.
massysett

join:2006-01-04
Silver Spring, MD

1 recommendation

No benefit

So the super duper speeds of FTTH have...no practical benefit. Comcast with the HFC plant outranks FIOS. Yet geeks complain about "slow Internet."

We've seen what happens when there is massive capital investment where it had no practical benefit: dotcom bubble and housing bubble. Now people say we should have fiber everywhere so that we can get...speeds slower than Comcast.

Let Google have at burying fiber everywhere but keep government out of this.

Rob
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: No benefit

For those of us who are pushing FTTH, we do so for the following reasons, none which are factored into Netflix's rankings:

1. FTTH provides for a more stable connection, with fewer interferences between the customer and the ISP.

2. FTTH provides more symmetrical speeds, or at least, faster upload speeds.

3. The cost to run FTTH has decreased significantly, and allows for much more expansion in the future without major infrastructure changes.

4. Our doctors tell us to eat more fiber, well, we want more fiber.

5. If you're going to rebuild a major highway, it would make economical sense to lay fiber optics at the same time. The cost is so minimal.
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us
34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

Re: No benefit

said by Rob:

For those of us who are pushing FTTH, we do so for the following reasons, none which are factored into Netflix's rankings:

1. FTTH provides for a more stable connection, with fewer interferences between the customer and the ISP.

2. FTTH provides more symmetrical speeds, or at least, faster upload speeds.

3. The cost to run FTTH has decreased significantly, and allows for much more expansion in the future without major infrastructure changes.

4. Our doctors tell us to eat more fiber, well, we want more fiber.

5. If you're going to rebuild a major highway, it would make economical sense to lay fiber optics at the same time. The cost is so minimal.

All of these things are a no brainer, especially #1 and #2. DOCSIS even with DOCSIS 3.1 still has a pretty bad achilles' heel.
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
No. 2. is not true. It depends on the provider entirely. I have seen some providers selling download/upload at a 100/1 ratio over fiber.

Vchat20
Landing is the REAL challenge
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Columbus, OH

Re: No benefit

said by silbaco:

No. 2. is not true. It depends on the provider entirely. I have seen some providers selling download/upload at a 100/1 ratio over fiber.

They sell those plans, but it is not a technical limitation. The tech is fully symmetrical by design. On the other hand, Cable and DSL are both asymmetrical by design and upload speeds there cannot go much higher than they are now.
--
I swear, some people should have pace-makers installed to free up the resources. Breathing and heart beat taxes their whole system, all of their brain cells wasted on life support.-two bit brains, and the second bit is wasted on parity! ~head_spaz
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
Yet your shortsightedness does not allow you to see past your nose.

The expandability of fiber far outweighs that of cable and once it is installed can do so without major infrastructure changes. Which is why ALL cable systems use fiber in the core of their network.
34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

Re: No benefit

Come on! Stop making so much sense
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Not true ! 10 gig between switch links are sfp+ cables
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: No benefit

Fiber eats 10gig as a small snack between brunch and lunch.
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: No benefit

Ahhh I trunk Ports for Multiple of 10 gig on cisco for my storage gear, The core guys here have done it up to 80 gig as long as the switches support it.

Besides how many home users have 10 gig capable gear exactly? And how many ftth sellers have 10 gig ports on their home network gear ? Better yet how many offer a 10 gig option inside the service area ?

0 , in the datacenter 10 gig port are still pretty expensive and doing distance has to be fiber. sfp+ are really only for short interconnects and connecting the hosts to their switch. Incase you missed the sarcasm in the smiley.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
FTTH will allow for more to happen at once over one connection. there is no one service that can swamp a Google 1gig connection yet.

However a bigger pipe means everybody in the house could be watching HD and not lag your gaming or if one only sees computer as a work tool, without lagging the VPN into the office.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
JohnSJ

join:2004-08-14
Lafayette, LA
Folks seem to think that the only limit here is Google's. It's not.

Netflix streams its videos at a set rate according to how each movie you choose to use is encoded. Netflix's encoding tops out about 4.8 Mbps for HD, and a little over 2 Mbps for SD. That's all they need push....except a bit of a buffer at the beginning I suspect. So most of the time it's just coasting at the encoding rate.

So the oddly low numbers for _all_ the providers is just more pronounced for Google Fiber. I suspect that the Google numbers represent pretty near the max for the mix of SD and HD that Netflix subscribers download.

When Netflix feels able to use more bandwidth they will improve the HD codec to a less compressed version and there will be more headroom for FTTH to shine. That would push their HD streaming to around 7 I think. And then there's 3D and later that crazy 4K stuff. They've got good reasons of their own to want Google to look good. Fiber will give them the headroom they want to really improve their service.

(It's worth noticing that Netflix is not waiting on Google or the Muni's to hand them bandwidth on a platter. It is right now building its own CDN to get it's content _inside_ the big networks like Cox and Comcast--Charter just signed on�€”and is only offering their least compressed HD and 3D catalogs over ISPs who have already joined their free to the ISP CDN by putting content on a cache inside their network or pull directly from a big, fast peering center. Look up "open connect." You'll need a minimum of 7 megs to use it even if your ISP joins up and puts a cache next door.)

RWSI

join:2012-11-27
Albuquerque, NM

Bandwidth

You can only still download as fast as the sender has available bandwidth. Google may have the fastest to whatever but there is port blocking and traffic shaping going on behind the scene. Do any of these providers protect you the consumer from now easier then ever attacks against the user?

The real fact is bandwidth costs money and you the consumer will eventually pay!

TSWYO
Premium
join:2003-05-03
Cheyenne, WY

1 recommendation

Re: Bandwidth

Bandwidth costs virtually nothing. I have leased space in colo and pay $3.60 per Mbps (using quality providers) on a larger commit that would be a lot cheaper. I push TB's worth of data a day. The ISPs complaining is just a money ploy for themselves.
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Re: Bandwidth

Bandwidth and data are not one and the same. Higher bit/s connections (e.g., 10mbit/s vs. 100mbit/s) require more infrastructure on the backend than lower bit/s connections. The actual bytes sent across such a connection is less important (though it matters somewhat with a shared last mile) than the promised data rate.

There's also a difference between a co-location center and residential last-mile connections. The former provides economy of scale and requires scant infrastructure investment. The latter requires infrastructure from the ISP all the way to your doorstep.
34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

Re: Bandwidth

said by Crookshanks:

There's also a difference between a co-location center and residential last-mile connections. The former provides economy of scale and requires scant infrastructure investment. The latter requires infrastructure from the ISP all the way to your doorstep.

Sure it does but it doesn't cost them how much they like to claim it does. The providers are making a killing on broadband and charging insane amounts compared to what it really costs them to get those bits to you. They also stretch out doing required upgrades as much as possible.
FastLearner

join:2003-09-14
Arvada, CO

Save it

How about they take the money they spend on worthless rankings and spend it on more streaming CONTENT!!

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Save it

said by FastLearner:

How about they take the money they spend on worthless rankings and spend it on more streaming CONTENT!!

Um...they are.
34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
said by FastLearner:

How about they take the money they spend on worthless rankings and spend it on more streaming CONTENT!!

This is a really bad joke.
bigred1324

join:2009-07-27
Fort Wayne, IN
said by FastLearner:

How about they take the money they spend on worthless rankings and spend it on more streaming CONTENT!!

They just announced a deal with Warner Bros. ... »goo.gl/cMdNt

pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

Nice data, no value however

So, if my ISP is low on the list and I want to change, what number do I call to have google fiber installed in my house in Andover, Nj?

I also doubt this will make any ISP spend a bundle upgrading their plant to be better than anyone else. If there were true competition that would happen however in most areas one cable co and one telco usually has the franchise for the town.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Nice data, no value however

Well I have Charter and at&t in my area so yeah these ranking might matter to both of them since one is clearly better than the other.
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

Re: Nice data, no value however

No doubt Charter wins in the ranking vs. AT&T DSL but other than buffering faster, what story does the rankings tell in terms of watching the content? Once the stream starts playing, can the sub tell the difference between 1.4Mbps provider and a 2.1Mbps provider?
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Nice data, no value however

You would think not but I think that depends on the player as the BluRay player I have does no buffering whatsoever and it gets on my nerves. Is that a player, ISP or netflix problem?

On my uVerse account there have probably been 40+ times I have been buffered while watching and I have probably watched less than 150 hours which is a pretty poor % if you ask me.

Could be a player issue as I had to buy this player as I have a space issue with where it is going. Once I have alternatives I will be looking at that as a buying decision as it is ridiculous that once you select a movie to play it is not fully downloaded as soon as it can be for uninterrupted viewing and good FF / RR features.

Maybe with the ridiculous content licensing they can't buffer the material at all.
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

Re: Nice data, no value however

How does NetFlix work? If they stream the content like cable On-Demand, it may never download the entire movie. I know the Apple TV downloads the whole movie and stores it for the duration of the rental period (which starts as soon as you play but not when you rent). Depending on the link speed, it take Apple TV 30 seconds to a few minutes before it says the movie is ready to watch. Although rare, sometimes it stops half way through the movie and has to buffer more content. When this happens, something goes wrong on the back-end servers as I have tested my HSI connection and it's fine. Generally I have to do something else for a few hours while waiting for it to finish downloading. (I can wait for 10 minutes and get a couple minutes of movie but this is even more frustrating).

As I said, this is rare but I've had it happen in the middle of action scenes and it makes me want to walk over to the Apple TV device, yank out all the wires and throw it into the fireplace. (One time I was really close but I then my brain pressed pause because there might be something in it that explodes resulting in hot coal burns in my carpet!)
giraffedata

join:2009-07-11
San Jose, CA

Re: Netflix download

On my device at least, Netflix buffers about a minute in advance and nothing behind. I have always wished for an alternative where I could tell it in the morning what I wanted to watch and it would download it at its leisure during the day for certain, uninterrupted viewing when it is done. Besides letting me know before I start that I'll see the whole movie, this would make it feasible to skip forward and backward as I watch. As it is, I use DVDs by mail when I can because that has those characteristics.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Netflix download

In the beginning, I am pretty new to Netflix, I thought that was what their queuing of movies was for. Turns out, not so much. They just show up on top for you to pick and watch.
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

Do WiFi Routers Have Impact?

I'm curious if these rankings consider the quality of the link's last ~200 feet. WiFi has to be used by a majority of folks. Does that skew the results?

••••••
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

1 recommendation

Subscriber Counts

What are the subscriber counts for the respective services? While Google Fiber is #1, how many customers do they serve? Will their figures change as subscriber counts rise? Granted, they have an undisputed last-mile capacity advantage but at some point, the bandwidth aggregates and if they don't manage it well, they could fall from grace.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

mobile rankings

Interesting that on the mobile front, T-Mobile ranks above AT&T and Sprint. I guess their LTE offerings don't help them much.
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: mobile rankings

said by fuziwuzi:

Interesting that on the mobile front, T-Mobile ranks above AT&T and Sprint. I guess their LTE offerings don't help them much.

Where does Sprint have LTE? And at&t is not a whole lot better.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

Re: mobile rankings

said by 88615298:

said by fuziwuzi:

Interesting that on the mobile front, T-Mobile ranks above AT&T and Sprint. I guess their LTE offerings don't help them much.

Where does Sprint have LTE? And at&t is not a whole lot better.

Sprint has LTE in 49 markets. By AT&T's advertisements, you'd think they blanket the nation already.
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

More Netflix BullSh*t....

So how can you rank Google who has almost no customers over someone like EPB who has thousands of customers with a minimum package of 50/50?
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1

What Accounts for the Higher Score?

How is Google Fiber scoring so much higher? Clearly this is some artificial limit being imposed somewhere in the path. Why wouldn't every ISP be able to easily manage a measly 2.57 Mbps download stream?

Where is the bottleneck? I've seen at certain times that heavy usage probably accounts for my Netflix streams over my wired Roku device dropping out of HD on occasion with Comcast 50/10 service. It rarely, if ever, did so with my FiOS 35/35 service. When Netflix is acting up, my connection is otherwise working as expected to other sites and services.

Is this an issue with peering, encoding, or some other problem? It seems like there would be a LOT more Comcast customers using Netflix than there could be with FiOS, if only because of the vast difference in the total number of subscribers. Perhaps there is a finite limit on the total allowable bandwidth available to Netflix streams at some point along the route?

Anyone have a reasonable explanation?

••••••••
devnuller

join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA

1 edit

ISP performance based on Netflix decisions

How much of the performance measurement is based on choices Netflix makes?

•Which CDN's are used for which ISPs each month?
•What about Neflix's network connectivity decisions as they move transit chasing the cheapest price each month?

The netflix transit network
»bgp.he.net/AS2906#_graph4
brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL
kudos:1

Netflix

They finally decided to keep their mouth shut and just do what they do best.

SADFSDFSF

@comcast.net

WHO CARES!

Who cares about the best rating when movie selection is SUCK!!!!
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

Re: WHO CARES!

No , movie selection sucks inside the us! for those of us who spend a lot of time outside the us , the selection is great !
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

norbert26
Premium
join:2010-08-10
Warwick, RI

Don't worry about it Netflix

Why is Netflix so concerned about the Best ISPs ? ISPs in most cases are cable companies that also provide legacy TV service which netflix disrupts. Netflix does NOT provide ISP service. That is the customer / subscribers responsibility to find an ISP and obtain service. Therefore netflix don't worry about how you are delivered to me i will decide if its good enough or not. If its not i will do something about it. Now stop wasting time and money ranking ISPs and add content or something that is productive .
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Re: Don't worry about it Netflix

It's all about putting pressure on the ISPs. ISPs are not fans of Google. By putting Google first, it makes the other companies look bad despite there being other ftth providers with many times more customers and not making the list at all. Not many people have heard of them, so they would do Netflix no good in their war on ISPs.

These lists do not actually mean anything.
big_e

join:2011-03-05
Quality of the ISP will also affect the quality of the netflix customer's viewing experience. If netflix is constantly rebuffering and has lower bitrates due to congestion at the ISP, guess who the typical non computer tech literate customer is going to blame first... Netflix. Netflix has to track average bitrate performance per ISP, per region to properly plan the expansion and configuration their content distribution net anyways. It doesn't take much effort to create and release a graph of the data they already collected and analyzed for internal use. Steering customers to ISPs that perform well with your product makes good business sense. I as a customer find this data useful to determine if my ISP is actually expanding speeds/capacity or are they letting their network congest and actually lowering speeds. Netflix need not put up and shut up with crappy ISPs. If naming and shaming gets them to clean up their act, so be it.

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
kudos:1

Good Politics

This is a long way from Comcast messing around with bandwidth to Netflix. If Netflix is successful at getting people to rank ISP performance based on Netflix speed, they will have achieved their own blow for network neutrality.
--
dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16

Tony Horton

@sonic.net

Pathetic AT&T

Look at how AT&T is consistently at the bottom of both mobile and home speed lists. I wonder if that NSA splice in SF is the cause of AT&T's poor performance.

FiberMarine

@xmission.net

Proof is in the throughput ping time!!!

»speedtest.net/result/2353584297. ··· 4297.png

...and there are others who get a full Gbps delivery, mine's listed at 100 Mbps for $55; DL/UL both!!!

This is one to another fiber provider over 250 miles away:

»speedtest.net/result/2353465445. ··· 5445.png

No matter how many of our devices are running at the same time, I have instant streaming when I view Netflix... in other words no buffering EVER with 3-5 seconds to determine my bandwidth and start the content. Top quality video delivery as well. Im still waiting for more 3D Video IP services since Dish doesnt serve 3D channels (like 3Net) but Id pay a small fee for IP access, having the available throughput and all.

Apparently, Netflix didnt include my provider in their results, but you get the articles you pay for these days. Personally, we cant wait for more IPTV service providers.

Big UPs to Utahs FIRST Internet Provider!!!