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Comments on news posted 2013-01-21 08:50:13: Leaked documents on the entertainment and ISP industries "six strikes" anti-piracy initiative show that small businesses won't be exempt from the program. ..

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ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

safe harbor

where do the safe harbor laws apply here?

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Really?

"That's ok, argues the CGI's Executive Director Jill Lesser, because if you're sharing your broadband over Wi-Fi, you're already violating your ISP's terms of service."

That's funny. I don't recall our TOS restricting the use of our customer's connections. We really don't care what you do with your connection as long as you are not breaking the law. In the case you are breaking the law we are going to do only what the law requires us to do. I.E. if you are not an Law Enforcement Agency or you do not have a subpoena in hand you will never get a chance to talk to anyone who could supply you with anything.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

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Re: safe harbor

said by ArrayList:

where do the safe harbor laws apply here?

Those laws can prevent you from being hauled in to court for copyright infringement. But they can't prevent your ISP from terminating your service for breaking TOS rules and contract terms.

But I doubt many ISPs are interested in terminating paying users in any of these cases. Most cafes, restaurants, bars, etc are in little danger of losing their hotspots.

michieru
Premium Member
join:2009-07-25
Denver, CO

1 recommendation

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Re: Really?

AtlanticBB has this policy written in their TOS but as a business customer all you need to do is tell them you want that language out because you "will" be using it for a hotspot and all it takes is a revision from the legal department and your good to go.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

We provide service to a large number hospitality based customers so it's a given that they are going to operate some sort of hot spot type service for their customers. The way I designed our network it's almost impossible for 1 customer to effect the other customers so if you end up flooding your pipe 100% 24/7/365 the only thing you can do is cause your self harm.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

Internet on the go

For Internet on the go, people should use a mobile broadband card or mobile hotspot. If I owned a business (such as a coffee shop, restaraunt, or hotel), it would be up to the customer to provide their own Internet connection (such as tethering to a smartphone or mobile broadband card). I would gladly provide information to customers on how to tether on most popular smartphones provided their carrier allows smartphone tethering.

I use a mobile hotspot for my laptop on the go. My iPads have the Verizon radio in them as well.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Who is going to stay in your hotel if you don't offer hot spot access when every other hotel around you does?

juilinsandar
Texas Gooner
Premium Member
join:2000-07-17
San Benito, TX

juilinsandar

Premium Member

What about government agencies? are they exempted?

If so, that's obviously wrong.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Businesses providing free Wi-Fi should be exempt.

Businesses paying a premium to an ISP to allow them to provide free Wi-Fi should be exempt from the Six Strikes Plans. Otherwise they should be able to get a residential account for the same price as any other customer to use for their Wi-Fi access..
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Small Business

I don't think this will continue for long. Small businesses are far too valuable to ISPs. If they start losing some, things will change.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

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Re: Internet on the go

Last time I stayed in a hotel (trip to Florida in Aug 2011), I used my Verizon mobile hotspot. I did not use the hotel's hotspot.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

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Re: Really?

said by battleop:

That's funny. I don't recall our TOS restricting the use of our customer's connections. We really don't care what you do with your connection as long as you are not breaking the law.

Terrorist! Pirate! Obviously you are not informed as the Six Strikes Policy requires that ALL ISPs be under the TOS-control of the CCI. To go against this would be unpatriotic.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

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Re: Internet on the go

And that tells us what?

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

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Re: Small Business

I noticed on My iPod Touch when it was not accessing a known business wifi hotspot, and my setting where to automatically hook up I looked at the settings and noticed it had been disabled when I re-activated it I had to agree to an Apple term of service letting them off the hook for anything that happened with such a connection. I don't remember having to do this before.

justaskin5
@sbc.com

justaskin5 to Mr Matt

Anon

to Mr Matt

Re: Businesses providing free Wi-Fi should be exempt.

said by Mr Matt:

Businesses paying a premium to an ISP to allow them to provide free Wi-Fi should be exempt from the Six Strikes Plans. Otherwise they should be able to get a residential account for the same price as any other customer to use for their Wi-Fi access..

Can you show us where the premium being paid is specifically for use as a hot spot? Or is that just your interpretation of why business accounts pay a premium? If this liability causes businesses to discontinue to provide hot spots, so be it. I think the world survived a few years prior to hot spots being in the mix.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

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Re: Internet on the go

That tells us all again that IC still thinks that what is good enough for him is good enough for the rest of the world and that is EXACTLY how it should work.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus
join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

Oh_No

Member

Who is paying for this???

Who is paying for an ISP to become the police???
The customers do not want to pay for this.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

I would say copyright holders. Although I wouldn't say they are paying them. Even that wouldn't make them so willing to cooperate. My guess is they threatened the rates or programming for their TV packages. Or they agreed to side with them on issues at DC.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
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join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

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The MAFIAA is basically getting them to do this willingly, The ISPs know if they told the MAFIAA to pound sand they would just get it made into a federal law.
Kearnstd

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Re: Internet on the go

The internet in a hotel does not count against the pitiful caps that most people have on their mobile services.
Rekrul
join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT

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Re: What about government agencies? are they exempted?

said by juilinsandar:

If so, that's obviously wrong.

Of course they're exempt! Laws only apply to the "little people", not those in power.
Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

Joe12345678

Member

what about hotels

what about hotels some hotels even have internet from the ISP that also does the hotels TV so they know that it's being used for businesses use.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Hotels should have custom contracts. I can't see them being affected.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

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Re: Internet on the go

And if you travel little and don't have a hotspot. Hell - I don't even have a data plan - we don't have smart phones...

This idea is just as short sighted as the all encompassing - hot spots violate ISPs TOS...

kevinds
Premium Member
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB

kevinds

Premium Member

My ISP gave me a seperate modem and internet connection for sharing how I feel fit.
travanx
join:2002-01-15
Altadena, CA

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How does that work when you travel out of the country? Or to multiple countries in one trip?

I was always happy to use the hotels hotspots as the alternatives would be such a pain.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

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Re: Really?

I have a business class DSL product from Frontier and there's nothing in the AUP that would prohibit me from setting up a hotspot or even from charging money for access to it. The residential AUP has such prohibitions but not the commercial one.

The usual prohibitions against UCE, child porn, etc. still apply of course. Some ISPs will ask you to install a web filter of some sort if this becomes a recurring problem with hotspots -- PenTelData has asked several businesses I know of to do this -- but that's about as far as it will go. I've never heard of an ISP that terminated a commercial account over activity on a hot spot.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
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battleop

Member

"The residential AUP has such prohibitions but not the commercial one."

We don't operate a residential network otherwise we would have some language not to prevent an open hotspot but to prevent people from trying to use a residential circuit in a business setting.

anon anon
@charter.com

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Re: Internet on the go

said by IowaCowboy:

Last time I stayed in a hotel (trip to Florida in Aug 2011), I used my Verizon mobile hotspot. I did not use the hotel's hotspot.

With 2 GB monthly caps and $10 per GB overage that's hardly a solution. Not to mention those on non Share Everything pricing hotspot service is $20 a month extra.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus
join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

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Re: Who is paying for this???

said by silbaco:

I would say copyright holders. Although I wouldn't say they are paying them. Even that wouldn't make them so willing to cooperate. My guess is they threatened the rates or programming for their TV packages. Or they agreed to side with them on issues at DC.

That is just more of a reason that the government needs to step in and break up ISPs from the content providers.
An ISP should be a dumb pipe and should not have any liability for what its users do with it.

Forcing ISPs to do this is like forcing the power company to track every device that uses their power and to identify anyone using power for illegal things. It just does not make any sense.
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