| reply to NotTheMama
Re: 1 gbps said by NotTheMama:in all 50 states (even if it is in only 1 city--because that will happen anyway).
How about just getting 1 mbps to everyone in all 50 states? ...for something less than $20/mo? or maybe even "free" like Google's other option (5 mbps, just pay for the install)? (In other words, how about doing something that's actually hard to do*? ...something actually useful to at least someone? you know, like for those who can't get anything but dial-up ...if that?)
*Of course, doing anything at all is harder than simply saying "let's do this" ...which is about the extent of this "plan".
why bother with 1mbps, if your going to run a line to the house, might as well do the best money can buy, fiber goes for miles without needing to refresh the signal, no point in running copper once, then fiber later.
in romania, i can get 1gbps fiber connection out in the sticks, and they are a 3rd world country. copper never existed there because they were so late giving internet to people. |
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brad
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON | reply to tschmidt
Re: Sounds like the same old crap. said by tschmidt:ADSL and VDSL do a fantastic job moving bits over voice grade twisted pair. VDSL2 is capable of 100/100 Mbps but is limited to only 1,000 feet. Not very practical in the real world. The fact there has not been a new ADSL/VDSL standard in years indicates copper has run out of gas, even with clever modulation/recovery techniques.
The lack of a new standard doesn't mean anything. There isn't a requirement for a new standard. The existing VDSL2 standard can have a variety of speed profiles and there is definitely on-going work by the major vendors to improve VDSL2. One such major improvement that is being rolled out by carriers around the world over the next 2 years is Vectoring which will allow existing connections able to attain 25Mbps service to now be able to attain 75/100 Mbps service. Using VDSL2 Bonding which utilizes 2 pair that can be raised to 150/200Mbps. Alcatel-Lucent is working on Phantom Mode which when used in conjunction with Bonding can further raise that upwards of 300Mbps.
said by tschmidt:80% of US customers are 15,000 feet or less from the central office. Statistics for rural customers is much worse, Less then 50% are within 15,000 feet. I'd love to see some clever engineering that utilizes existing copper infrastructure but I'm not holding my breath.
You don't feed VDSL2 directly from the CO. That's why you build VRADs close to the customer.
said by tschmidt:Fiber is the only solution for wired broadband. Once installed is is actually cheaper then copper because maintenance costs are much lower. The down side is high up front capital investment that no quarterly profits driven CEO is willing to make.
I don't agree and if you're hanging on to the dream of fibre everywhere it'll be just that.. a dream.
Even in the countries where people go on about fibre out the ying yang a significant portion of the users if not almost 50% are still receiving Internet via VDSL2. Fibre makes up a very small percentage of the over all broadband market around the world.
Trust me I'd love to see fibre everywhere but it is not realistic. Even Verizon with their FiOS did a pretty poor job at it. |
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brad
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON | reply to MovieLover76
said by MovieLover76:Yea for real world speeds like that you need fiber, cable can do it downstream now and has to potential with upstream channel bonding to do it up as well.
Cable is unlikely to ever see symmetrical speeds or anything close to it. In theory you could do a lot better but the existing legacy services already in use to deliver TV services get in the way. Way down the road when cable providers finally migrate to an IPTV based platform and get rid of digital cable they could do things properly. But that is so far out. |
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 Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | reply to brad
Re: Pond scum subspecies said by brad:Yes, they're rolling out an all fibre network but they're not thinking long term. Um.. Yes they are. Copper can't push the speeds Fiber can. Copper has limits. Fiber, technically, does not. |
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| reply to videomatic3
Re: 1 gbps Copper has already been run. Making it capable of pushing out DSL can be done for quite a lot less than running fiber. Eventually fiber could be needed, but for now there is no real reason to run it. It is far more important that people get some service of some kind. |
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| reply to jerseyjoe123
Re: Challenge, not Promise I don't know of a lot of ISPs that are not lifting a finger. I see telcos pushing out faster DSL all the time and cable companies pushing up their speeds on a regular basis. I see tons of fiber going in for new construction and being fed to neighborhoods to boost existing speeds. Heck I even see ftth going in on dirt, not gravel, roads. |
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CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1 | reply to NormanS
Re: Pond scum subspecies Wow, that's nice. I am paying $19.95/mo for 3 Mbps. The 15 Mbps is 34.99/mo. |
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 IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
 ·Comcast
 ·Verizon Broadban..
| Most people don't need 1 Gbps. The only people who need 1 Gbps are institutions with servers or a lot of computers on the premises (such as a call center, hospital/medical center, or a high school).
For most residential users like myself, I only need the 50/10 plan through Comcast.
It is split between several computers, tablets, and gaming consoles.
For most residential users, 1 Gbps is overkill (like using a tractor trailer to bring home a week's worth of groceries). |
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| reply to videomatic3
Re: 1 gbps You're missing my point--you're being too "literal", not enough "metaphorical". The FCC should be concerned about everyone being able to get "enough" (as in, "fast enough").
--
"...but ya doesn't hasta call me Johnson!" |
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| reply to morbo
Re: Pond scum subspecies Fixing lines is costly. Replacing poles is even more costly. As the poles continue to age in many places, companies are being reminded how stupid it was not to bury the cables. |
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| reply to brad
Re: Sounds like the same old crap. Well I guess while they are busy moving those VRADs closer to the customer at about 1000ft they might as well finish it up and give real speeds huh?
Keep preaching the silly VDSL. It isnt going anywhere fast and hasnt for years. |
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| reply to silbaco
Re: Challenge, not Promise Frontier has gone the other way. The service here was 3mbps but they oversold the service and backed it down the 1mbps. It isn't often that the full 1 mbps is seen. It is more like .25-.5 mbps with pings late at night around 100-500 ms and daytime/evening around 1000-1700 ms. Secure sites are impossible to use most of the time. |
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| Let the free market decide! We don't need no stinkin' gigabit fiber. If folks are only willing to pay for DSL, why should the govmnt interfere? |
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brad
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
4 edits | reply to Skippy25
Re: Sounds like the same old crap. said by Skippy25:Well I guess while they are busy moving those VRADs closer to the customer at about 1000ft they might as well finish it up and give real speeds huh?
Keep preaching the silly VDSL. It isnt going anywhere fast and hasnt for years.
Which is what I said is coming.
I am not preaching anything. I'm living in the real world unlike some of you guys deluded thinking these companies are going to roll out fibre everywhere. It isn't going to happen. I am not saying that if they all of a sudden did roll out fibre I would be against it. But these companies are not going to spend the hundreds of billions it would cost to tear out all of their existing DSL/cable networks and replace it with fibre. If it is rolled out I want to see it pretty much everywhere, not some swiss cheese coverage where it's available to houses down one side of a street and not the other side of the street like Verizon or that they're only covering a portion of the city. That's a bloody joke. |
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brad
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON | reply to MovieLover76
said by MovieLover76:But the trend stifles innovation. their are much more effective congestion based throttling approaches, that are much more effective at battling congestion.
I'm not thrilled about Wireless caps either, but in that arena I can't argue with the current spectrum and technology limitations, wireless internet will always need to be controlled in some way, though I think the caps are artificially low.
There wouldn't be any congestion if they proactively upgraded the network instead of waiting until the nodes/backhaul are at 99% and then upgrading. The carriers are dragging their feet as much as possible.
The caps are artificially low so it can be a cash cow. Wireless carriers are making a shit load of profit. Wireline is bad enough for the consumer in that regard, wireless is 10x worse. |
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brad
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON | reply to Simba7
Re: Pond scum subspecies said by Simba7:said by brad:Yes, they're rolling out an all fibre network but they're not thinking long term. Um.. Yes they are. Copper can't push the speeds Fiber can. Copper has limits. Fiber, technically, does not. Do I have to put sarcasm tags around it for you?
The comment was making fun of the other thing he said. |
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brad
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON | reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt:If I had my druthers we would implement some type of wholesale fiber first-mile implementation. Various service providers would rent strands or lambdas (colors) to deliver end user service. Primary and secondary power would be at the top of the pole, multi-fiber cable underneath and all the existing legacy cable, phone, cable, fire alarm, etal removed.
That would be the most ideal situation. |
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| reply to morbo
Where did you have electric power companies not fixed downed lines? I have never seen that action taken after a storm. |
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 NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:9
 ·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to sticks435
said by sticks435:That's because you live in one of the most temperate climates in the United States, not Tornado Alley. Your storms are probably nothing compared to what we get here.
But we have earthquakes up the kazoo. With sufficient lateral displacement of the earth, you can kiss your buried utilities goodbye.
What works in one place may fail in another.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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